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View Full Version : No more New Guns for Kalifornia


mnh327
12-23-2010, 11:58 PM
Does anyone see it any other way?

Here's how it goes. All new guns need to have a magazine-disconnect, so you can't fire a loaded round if the mag isn't in, and a loaded chamber indicator. (not drop-free mags as previously written, thanks Librarian)

Ok, so not all guns have this and they're on the roster, right? But that's because they were on the roster before that requirement.

So..
New guns must meet these conditions. These conditions are Kalifornia specific.

Anyway..
if you've followed this far, the rest goes like this: Make guns all the same, for the whole country, or for the whole country except Kali. Seems like gun makers are going for the latter.

Therefore, no new guns for Kali. Anyone see it any other way? :mad:

Joe
12-24-2010, 12:00 AM
Yes, kind of. There are work arounds some FFL's use to get non rostered guns to us.

SJgunguy24
12-24-2010, 12:01 AM
Does anyone see it any other way?

Here's how it goes. All new guns need to have mags that don't drop-free, and a loaded chamber indicator.

Ok, so not all guns have this and they're on the roster, right? But that's because they were on the roster before that requirement.

So..
New guns must meet these conditions. These conditions are Kalifornia specific. Most people don't like mags that don't drop-free and will modify things to get them work this way.

Anyway..
if you've followed this far, the rest goes like this: Make guns all the same, for the whole country, or for the whole country except Kali. Seems like gun makers are going for the latter.

Therefore, no new guns for Kali. Anyone see it any other way? :mad:

Where did you hear this nonsense? Have you tried reading the law or looked at the requirments for the roster?

Librarian
12-24-2010, 12:43 AM
Does anyone see it any other way?

Here's how it goes. All new guns need to have mags that don't drop-free, and a loaded chamber indicator.

Ok, so not all guns have this and they're on the roster, right? But that's because they were on the roster before that requirement.

So..
New guns must meet these conditions. These conditions are Kalifornia specific. Most people don't like mags that don't drop-free and will modify things to get them work this way.


New semi-automatic guns require a magazine disconnect - prevents firing if no mag in the gun.

New revolvers can be added - they don't have that requirement.

The problem is a bit less the manufacturers than the DOJ - they seem unable to 'like' anyone's loaded-chamber indicators.

But, see this: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v._Cid

Munk
12-24-2010, 2:01 AM
Some gunmakers HAVE given up on trying to appease CA. Beretta with the 92a1 and 96a1, Glock with all of their Gen4's. Neither will even bother trying to make a CA acceptable firearm from those platforms, and so they will not be rostered.

Unfortunately, it's not just CA that has a roster. Other states have copied the roster (in a couple cases Literally!). Guns that are good to go for CA are often accepted in these states as well. Since it's not just one market that's affected, they'll often make one that complies with as many laws as possible so they can sell the gun in as many markets as possible.

Then there's the fact that for all its shortcomings, CA is a pretty big market. There's enough gunowners and activists (CGF, SAF, CRPA, etc...) that these guns will sell, so a minor revision to be CA acceptable is worth the cost for some manufacturers.


Where did you hear this nonsense? Have you tried reading the law or looked at the requirments for the roster?

OP is referring to the feature that librarian mentioned. OP just misunderstood the language. Mag disconnect means that if you drop the mag with a round chambered, it won't fire. Or if you chamber one without putting a mag in. It's a horrible feature and its failure can be a liability (If part of the mechanism or even the top of the mag is crushed, it'll act like there's no mag when there's definitely a mag). Removing the mag disconnect is actually safer all around (unless it's integrated in some horribly involved way).

Nothing's preventing you from dropping the mag, In fact CA would prefer you dropped all of your mags... into the trashcan.
New semi-automatic guns require a magazine disconnect - prevents firing if no mag in the gun.

New revolvers can be added - they don't have that requirement.

The problem is a bit less the manufacturers than the DOJ - they seem unable to 'like' anyone's loaded-chamber indicators.

But, see this: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v._Cid

pTa
12-24-2010, 2:25 AM
the roster isnt lng for this world

zdragon
12-24-2010, 6:11 AM
Nothing's preventing you from dropping the mag, In fact CA would prefer you dropped all of your mags... into the trashcan.

In reality Kalifornia prefers rubber band guns only for Kalifornians.... foul language for self defense is preferred.;)

jidokenju
12-24-2010, 6:25 AM
the roster isnt lng for this world
From your mouth...

flatovercrest
12-24-2010, 6:33 AM
Merry Xmas everyone! Shoot safe.

xXBigJoeXx
12-24-2010, 6:47 AM
There's always ways around the roster ;)

morrcarr67
12-24-2010, 7:05 AM
the roster isnt lng for this world

:twoweeks:

Baconator
12-24-2010, 7:44 AM
:twoweeks:

Beat me to it.

bruceflinch
12-24-2010, 7:48 AM
the roster isnt lng for this world

& then what happens?

jidokenju
12-24-2010, 8:15 AM
& then what happens?

Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

morrcarr67
12-24-2010, 9:09 AM
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

:25: :7: :90:

toby
12-24-2010, 10:01 AM
Why worry? buy what you want now and your done! or live with what you have? :)

Marlin Hunter
12-24-2010, 10:10 AM
OP is referring to the feature that librarian mentioned. OP just misunderstood the language. Mag disconnect means that if you drop the mag with a round chambered, it won't fire. Or if you chamber one without putting a mag in. It's a horrible feature and its failure can be a liability (If part of the mechanism or even the top of the mag is crushed, it'll act like there's no mag when there's definitely a mag). Removing the mag disconnect is actually safer all around (unless it's integrated in some horribly involved way).



I agree that a gun is safer without the disconnect. Someone could have a round in the chamber and stick an empty mag into the gun and think it was now unloaded.

dfletcher
12-24-2010, 10:27 AM
Where did you hear this nonsense? Have you tried reading the law or looked at the requirments for the roster?

Since the OP mentioned mag disconnects & LCI's it's presumed he's speaking of semi auto handguns - how many "new model" semi auto handguns have been added to the list since the requirements were added? Look through any gun magazine & you'll see what amounts to a catalog of "can't get this in CA".

I mentioned it a few years back, but as a practical matter we live in a state where new model, semi automatic handguns are, as a practical matter, banned from import.

Ultimately, I think no new models getting in and the subjective requirements of the LCI speaks to a defacto ban and helps defeat the roster.

railroader
12-24-2010, 10:43 AM
Eventually the only guns on the roster will be rugers. All the other guns will have fallen off the roster. Ruger seems to be the only company that submits semi autos anymore. Oh joy. ;)

Old4eyes
12-24-2010, 10:45 AM
New model pistols, by and large are not being introduced into California. The only recent model that comes to my mind was Ruger's SR9c. Ruger has been quite compliant to the government's need for magazine disconnects and big honkin' loaded chamber indicators.

Revolvers are coming in as long as they pass the drop test (which the pistols must also meet). It's gun control in the guise of protecting the owner and "innocent" people.

stillnotbob
12-24-2010, 10:51 AM
I agree that a gun is safer without the disconnect. Someone could have a round in the chamber and stick an empty mag into the gun and think it was now unloaded.

I would go with gun safety rule number one: "All guns are always loaded."

Even the State places that fact of the handgun test they make us take.

762.DEFENSE
12-24-2010, 10:54 AM
Why worry? buy what you want now and your done! or live with what you have? :)

or move to Arizona/Nevada/Texas where the gun laws are amazing. :D (Hopefully what I'll be doing in the future.)

Gio
12-24-2010, 10:56 AM
I love how SA has a huge sticker on the XDM box stating no sales to CA and we have a lot of them here. I was seriously considering one, but I really like my Glock 17 way too much.

We are getting more 07FFL's that are willing to do Single Shot Exemptions which will allow us to get some of those cool no CA models here in CA. Most of the time it is not too much more than retail, unlike others selling Gen 4 Glocks or SA XDM for $300- $400 over retail.

jackandblood
12-24-2010, 11:30 AM
its not even ideological anymore. It's just bureaucracy trying desperately to justify it's own irrelevant and unnecessary existence. Original intent has far been superseded. It's a virus with no mission to make anything safer or better. It just wants to exist and dictate for the sole purpose of existing and dictating.

Sky_DiveR
12-24-2010, 1:16 PM
Did you just copy that from the dictionary under, "Socialist Government"?

Knight_Who_Says_Ni
12-24-2010, 1:30 PM
or move to Arizona/Nevada/Texas where the gun laws are amazing. :D (Hopefully what I'll be doing in the future.)

Montana is even better!

luckystrike
12-24-2010, 1:42 PM
New semi-automatic guns require a magazine disconnect - prevents firing if no mag in the gun.



I have herd this before, but I cant think of one new pistol besides the walther 22 that actually has a disconnect

jackandblood
12-24-2010, 1:46 PM
Did you just copy that from the dictionary under, "Socialist Government"?

No I just formulated that with a few minutes thought, independently of any source. Impressive no? :D

ke6guj
12-24-2010, 1:51 PM
Eventually the only guns on the roster will be rugers. All the other guns will have fallen off the roster. Ruger seems to be the only company that submits semi autos anymore. Oh joy. ;)

In the last year, besides any new rugers, there is a new Kahr P380, Sig P250, FMK 9C1, and maybe more that meet the current roster requirements and have been listed.

Uriah02
12-24-2010, 1:57 PM
Reminds me of the thumbprint recognition hardware that is also required of new handguns... I don't miss PRK.

IrishPirate
12-24-2010, 1:57 PM
I think you're slightly confused, but that's ok, that just means you've been paying attention

ke6guj
12-24-2010, 1:59 PM
Reminds me of the thumbprint recognition hardware that is also required of new handguns... I don't miss PRK.:confused: what thumbprint recognition hardware would be required of new handguns? Judge Dredd isn't reality yet.

IrishPirate
12-24-2010, 2:01 PM
Reminds me of the thumbprint recognition hardware that is also required of new handguns... I don't miss PRK.

not sure if the FUD is worse in or out of state....:confused:

railroader
12-24-2010, 2:42 PM
In the last year, besides any new rugers, there is a new Kahr P380, Sig P250, FMK 9C1, and maybe more that meet the current roster requirements and have been listed.

Sorry if I'm underwhelmed by the new additions. From what I have read online the FMK 9C1 has a trigger pull of about 10lbs. and writing all over the gun. I'll pass. The sigp250 from the online reviews is probably the crappiest gun they make. So now we are down to the kahr 380 which probably is a good gun. When it comes to new semi autos in california we are basicly screwed. That's why I quit buying gun magazines(the kind you read). They show all the new handguns that are coming out but none of them are legal here. Mark

Chief-7700
12-24-2010, 3:58 PM
:twoweeks:

I have been seeing the above two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago for...................

smarter
12-24-2010, 5:01 PM
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_16937758

Mag d/c and chamber indicator didn't help this poor fellow.

Fiiyablade
12-24-2010, 5:53 PM
i can't go to my local gun shop and buy either a 4th gen glock or xdm....this is bs man

hk91666
12-24-2010, 6:01 PM
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_16937758

Mag d/c and chamber indicator didn't help this poor fellow.


Drinking did not either

dfletcher
12-24-2010, 6:05 PM
In the last year, besides any new rugers, there is a new Kahr P380, Sig P250, FMK 9C1, and maybe more that meet the current roster requirements and have been listed.

If no handguns met CA roster requirements do you think that makes more likely a court would view the roster as a ban; would that make more likely the roster would be ruled unconstitutional? On the other hand, if a few models do make the roster would a court consider the manufacturers just aren't "trying hard enough" and view the roster as being a "reasonable restriction"?

sevensix2x51
12-24-2010, 6:07 PM
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_16937758

Mag d/c and chamber indicator didn't help this poor fellow.

you'd think these news sites would have a way to disable the social networking on stories like this. kind of weird to have the facebook "like" button under a story like that...

BillCA
12-24-2010, 7:06 PM
If no handguns met CA roster requirements do you think that makes more likely a court would view the roster as a ban; would that make more likely the roster would be ruled unconstitutional? On the other hand, if a few models do make the roster would a court consider the manufacturers just aren't "trying hard enough" and view the roster as being a "reasonable restriction"?
One can make two arguments.

First is that the state is attempting to create the conditions by which no guns at all can be compliant with the regulations, such as microstamping which merely a valid law under suspense. Such regulations are an undue burden upon the public in that they severely limit the choices available for self defense -- i.e. a one armed person cannot buy the "left hand" model of certain guns. The logical rationale of "safety" is bogus too, since the law permits LEOs to own, possess and use guns that are prohibited to the citizens.

The other argument requires defining the limits, if any, of shall not be infringed. Do laws which prohibit thee and me from owning a 20-round FN Five-Seven constitute a serious infringement? Do laws that prohibit us from purchasing a perfectly serviceable and acceptable firearm because the manufacturer has simply failed to pay "protection" for each model sold constitute an infringement of my right to own a quality firearm? If the state laws result in difficult to operate firearms which are inaccurate and a hazard to use in self-defense, then does that violate the "infringed" clause?

Here we'd all agree. Legiscritters, however have a problem believing that their citizens can actually act responsibly around dangerous items.

mnh327
12-24-2010, 7:20 PM
Ya, I think it's just a running joke now..

I have been seeing the above two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago+ two weeks ago for...................

novabrian
12-24-2010, 7:32 PM
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Big Trouble in Little China! I love it.

anthonyca
12-24-2010, 8:58 PM
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Ghostbusters?

FreedomMom
12-24-2010, 9:21 PM
:twoweeks:

What happens in two weeks??? :confused:

My dad bought an M&P 9 that had a mag disconnect, it was a royal pain at IDPA matches.

grnt
12-24-2010, 9:28 PM
Just wait till the blackpowder revolvers need safeties and internal locks, plus 10 day wait, buying a separate gun lock, registering and fingerprinting FFFG powder and lead balls. LOL:King:

dfletcher
12-24-2010, 10:00 PM
One can make two arguments.

First is that the state is attempting to create the conditions by which no guns at all can be compliant with the regulations, such as microstamping which merely a valid law under suspense. Such regulations are an undue burden upon the public in that they severely limit the choices available for self defense -- i.e. a one armed person cannot buy the "left hand" model of certain guns. The logical rationale of "safety" is bogus too, since the law permits LEOs to own, possess and use guns that are prohibited to the citizens.

The other argument requires defining the limits, if any, of shall not be infringed. Do laws which prohibit thee and me from owning a 20-round FN Five-Seven constitute a serious infringement? Do laws that prohibit us from purchasing a perfectly serviceable and acceptable firearm because the manufacturer has simply failed to pay "protection" for each model sold constitute an infringement of my right to own a quality firearm? If the state laws result in difficult to operate firearms which are inaccurate and a hazard to use in self-defense, then does that violate the "infringed" clause?

Here we'd all agree. Legiscritters, however have a problem believing that their citizens can actually act responsibly around dangerous items.

On the one hand I think not allowing "Gun A" but allowing "Gun B" is much like allowing a person to read "Magazine A" but banning "Magazine B" - on the face of it, this seems an abridgement. Of course tossing in public safety and reasonable restrictions is present with guns, but I think the theory remains much the same.

Then there is the practical application - can you imagine, in court, a judge holding up for dramatic effect a 1958 made Python (CA OK) a 70's Python (not) and a newly made CA OK Python asking the CA state AG "OK, explain this to me again .....?

SJgunguy24
12-24-2010, 10:19 PM
i can't go to my local gun shop and buy either a 4th gen glock or xdm....this is bs man

You need to change your local.

jidokenju
12-24-2010, 10:40 PM
Ghostbusters?

Correct. Sorry, no prizes.

precisionshooter308
12-25-2010, 12:54 PM
I finally retired and want to move to FREE AMERICA, The other half tends to think that civilization ends at the OC border. One day though because she is thinking it might be better. As to LCIs and Mag disconnects they just make a machine more complicated than it needs to be and they are just more parts to break when they NEED to work.

morrcarr67
12-25-2010, 2:15 PM
What happens in two weeks??? :confused:



The roster is not long for this world. :D


Will be gone in :twoweeks: :laugh:

himurax13
12-25-2010, 2:47 PM
I think the roster should stay and have the law enforcement exemptions, including the high cap magazine exemption, removed. That way everyone will have "safe" guns.

Falstaff
12-25-2010, 2:51 PM
I have herd this before, but I cant think of one new pistol besides the walther 22 that actually has a disconnect

Ruger MkIII has it.

Sig's 250 too. Sig's marketing manager at shot show 2010 said CA is their biggest market...

hk91666
12-25-2010, 3:46 PM
Just wait till the blackpowder revolvers need safeties and internal locks, plus 10 day wait, buying a separate gun lock, registering and fingerprinting FFFG powder and lead balls. LOL:King:


I bought a used 1858 Pietta and the gunshop in Vacaville wanted to dros it. Guess Why? because you can buy a conversion cylinder for it. I argued and they sold it as BP accessories.

CA Gun Laws Suck
12-25-2010, 3:52 PM
In the last year, besides any new rugers, there is a new Kahr P380, Sig P250, FMK 9C1, and maybe more that meet the current roster requirements and have been listed.

They are on the list but Sig still hasn't shipped any CA P250's here. P380's are hard to find and the FMK is nothing to roar about...You are right in the fact there are some new guns hitting the list but there aren't that many and the ones people want. California is hardly getting anything new....

dfletcher
12-25-2010, 3:52 PM
Ruger MkIII has it.

Sig's 250 too. Sig's marketing manager at shot show 2010 said CA is their biggest market...

The 250 came in after the LCI requirement and was OK'd, I think the Ruger was already CA OK and Ruger added the LCI later - not 100% sure on that though. Since the Ruger was already on the list the LCI itself didn't have to be CA OK'd.

CA Gun Laws Suck
12-25-2010, 4:07 PM
The 250 is on the list but Sig won't ship any.

yzernie
12-25-2010, 4:08 PM
Although it is on the list, the P250 has never seen shipment to Cali. When it was submitted and got approved Cali then decided to add some other requirements for the gun to actually be allowed to ship. Sig has tried to get those additions added but has, for the most part, given up modifying this model just to please Sacramento.

yzernie
12-25-2010, 4:12 PM
The 250 is on the list but Sig won't ship any.
It is not Sig that won't ship. Sig submitted and got the gun approved. See my post right above this one.

CA Gun Laws Suck
12-25-2010, 4:13 PM
Although it is on the list, the P250 has never seen shipment to Cali. When it was submitted and got approved Cali then decided to add some other requirements for the gun to actually be allowed to ship. Sig has tried to get those additions added but has, for the most part, given up modifying this model just to please Sacramento.

Exactly, that is basically what Chris at Sig told me. Problems with the LCI or some bs. It is unfortunate too, because a lot of people would purchase that pistol.

tonelar
12-25-2010, 4:16 PM
I bet it's summer before 2 weeks is up.

Exactly, that is basically what Chris at Sig told me. Problems with the LCI or some bs. It is unfortunate too, because a lot of people would purchase that pistol.

it'd be perfect for even the new shooters; you can get your collection going with multi calibers and platforms with one of those.