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View Full Version : No bills, no vehicle, help me prove my residency.


Some Guy
12-23-2010, 3:53 PM
I sold my vehicle a few months ago. I rent a room and don't have any utility bills. Today I came across a pistol I think I need, but I don't have any of the documents I saw listed on a DOJ faq. What is the easiest way to prove my residency?

AJAX22
12-23-2010, 4:00 PM
Do you have a copy of the lease for your rented room?

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 4:01 PM
Do you have a copy of the lease for your rented room?

that would probably be easiest. If you don't have one, you can have a lease/rental agreement drawn up pretty easy to cover your POR.

Now, if he isn't willing to do that, and you have the time, get your C&R FFL and that will cover your POR.

Shady
12-23-2010, 4:01 PM
go to kinkos and get a rental agreement
have your landlord sign it and your good

fennecfrank
12-23-2010, 4:06 PM
like others suggested: rental agreement.

easiest and fastest......

did a transfer with someone whose vehicles were registered under parents' name, also still living with parents, therefore all the utility bills were all under parents' name.

the guy did chores and paid monthly payment to the parents. had the dad signed a rental agreement, and it was done.

Some Guy
12-23-2010, 4:11 PM
Just found a thread with details. Thanks for the responses.

chesterthehero
12-23-2010, 5:09 PM
the rental agreement or go to the DMV and get an ID for like $15.. then not only will you have the ID but also a piece of mail with your address from a government agency..

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 5:21 PM
the rental agreement or go to the DMV and get an ID for like $15.. then not only will you have the ID but also a piece of mail with your address from a government agency..A CA ID with his address on it won't help the OP. He needs POR other than a CA DL/ID to purchase a handgun in CA.

jr916
12-23-2010, 6:25 PM
A piece of mail from a gov't agency isn't good enough either... my Selected Services mail wouldn't do at least. I went online to LawDepot.com (not affiliated) and filled out a form and they threw together a Residential Lease Agreement which I then had notarized and brought to the gun shop on the 21st to pick up my pistol. If you're in a similar situation as me and fennecfrank's buyer, it's really easy to print out your own lease agreement (I drew mine up between my mother and myself, whose house I still live at when coming home from college on vacations). If you already rent, you should ask your landlord/property manager for a copy of the lease agreement and that should be fine. Good luck, it was kinda a PITA to get it notarized...

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 7:29 PM
If you already rent, you should ask your landlord/property manager for a copy of the lease agreement and that should be fine. Good luck, it was kinda a PITA to get it notarized...no regulation that requires it be notarized.

707electrician
12-23-2010, 8:20 PM
no regulation that requires it be notarized.

I was told that unless the lease was notarized it wouldn't be accepted by the feds. California accepts a lease as POR but not the fed. The fed wants a gov't issued document

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 8:28 PM
I was told that unless the lease was notarized it wouldn't be accepted by the feds. California accepts a lease as POR but not the fed. The fed wants a gov't issued document



you are dealing with two separate POR requirements and a lease agreement (even if notarized) is not a .gov-issued document and would not be acceptable to the feds, unless perhaps it was .gov-owned housing that was being leased.

With regards to CA, CA accepts it as POR for handgun purchases, doesn't have to be .gov-issued.

dude79
12-23-2010, 8:33 PM
Drivers License with Current Address or
Vehicle Registration with Current Address (but you dont have one)

Lease that is notoraized at least 3 months of residency

I think thats it. I just went through this

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 8:37 PM
where does it say that the lease must be notarized? and have at least 3 months of residency (if you aren't an alien)?

flatovercrest
12-23-2010, 8:42 PM
A perhaps different suggestion..?
Put the gun purchase on hold and get your own place and buy a vehicle first?

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 8:44 PM
so, if a guy wants to go green and bike everywhere, and is trying to save money by living with friends, he can't buy a handgun?

rimfire78
12-23-2010, 8:46 PM
You're sol.

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 8:49 PM
You're sol. You have to have the 3 months. There's no way around it.

what is this "3 months" stuff about? The "3 months" deal is federal law when you are an alien trying to buy a firearm. OP has not mentioned that he is an alien, so why would the "3 months" matter?

IntoForever
12-23-2010, 9:01 PM
so, if a guy wants to go green and bike everywhere, and is trying to save money by living with friends, he can't buy a handgun?

Pretty much. No one wants hippies to have guns.
What if you went out and became a stalker. Could you use the court papers showing your address as POR?? :sarcasm:

jr916
12-23-2010, 9:29 PM
so, if a guy wants to go green and bike everywhere, and is trying to save money by living with friends, he can't buy a handgun?

No, he'd write up a lease agreement with one of the friends he's staying with that says he lives there and pays x dollars (why not put $0?) a month.

As for the notarizing, I was told by the gun shop/range that it must be notarized. I was given a list of "acceptable documents conforming to the newly-proposed regulations" (this list was a year or so old I'm assuming), and it specifically said the Residential Lease Agreement must be notarized AND the address must match either the address you put on the DROS OR the address on your CA ID/DL.

If it isn't notarized, there is no proof that you or the landlord signed anything... anyone could just print out a false lease and hand it over showing proof of residency... I don't know why they'd accept an un-notarized lease but who knows, these requirements are ridiculous and kooky sometimes, just ask the individual shop what it requires.

gravedigger
12-23-2010, 9:32 PM
I use my DBA.

dascoyne
12-23-2010, 9:38 PM
No house? No car? No bills? .... what do you have to protect with a handgun? :D

MarioS
12-23-2010, 9:38 PM
As others have stated, rental/lease agreement. You can draw one up or use your current one if you have one. There are many templates online you can print and use. I used a lease agreement a couple times when I had no other proof of residency and there was never any problem. Call your FFL and see what their specific requirements are. Some may ask that it be notarized.

hammerhands32
12-23-2010, 9:39 PM
I know my brother used a fishing license. Counted as a goverment document. Not sure if that would still work.

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 9:40 PM
No, he'd write up a lease agreement with one of the friends he's staying with that says he lives there and pays x dollars (why not put $0?) a month.which is what I, and others, said at the beginning.

As for the notarizing, I was told by the gun shop/range that it must be notarized. I was given a list of "acceptable documents conforming to the newly-proposed regulations" (this list was a year or so old I'm assuming), and it specifically said the Residential Lease Agreement must be notarized AND the address must match either the address you put on the DROS OR the address on your CA ID/DL.

here are the regulations:

The following definitions and requirements apply to documents intended to serve as evidence of residency for the acquisition of a handgun pursuant to Penal Code section 12071(b)(8)(C):

b.1."Residential lease" means either of the following:
A.
A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time.
B.
A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.
2. The residential lease must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf
if they wanted it notarized, it should have been stated in the regulations.

If it isn't notarized, there is no proof that you or the landlord signed anything... anyone could just print out a false lease and hand it over showing proof of residency... I don't know why they'd accept an un-notarized lease but who knows, these requirements are ridiculous and kooky sometimes, just ask the individual shop what it requires.

they accept un-notarized utility bills, even though printed off of a website, so what is the difference?

flatovercrest
12-23-2010, 9:40 PM
Also check with the person or family you are renting the room from. They may not want a renter to have a firearm in their home. If I was in their shoes I wouldn't allow it.

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 9:42 PM
I know my brother used a fishing license. Counted as a goverment document. Not sure if that would still work.fishing/hunting licenses have been said by CADOJ to NOT be acceptable as POR since they aren't issued by any .gov agency. Billy Bob at the local tackle shop issued it to you. but that doesn't mean that some shops aren't willing to accept them as POR. Now, with the new computerized system and lifetime licensed being actually issued by F&G, that might change.

Turo
12-23-2010, 9:54 PM
Also check with the person or family you are renting the room from. They may not want a renter to have a firearm in their home. If I was in their shoes I wouldn't allow it.

First of all, it doesn't matter, as the tenant still has 2nd amendment rights. And secondly, you would deprive a fellow citizen of their 2nd amendment rights for no reason? I thought that was the whole point of this forum, to keep our rights?

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 9:55 PM
No house? No car? No bills? .... what do you have to protect with a handgun? :D

umm, maybe your life?

jr916
12-23-2010, 10:23 PM
they accept un-notarized utility bills, even though printed off of a website, so what is the difference?

The difference is that it comes from a reputable company that a person could contact to verify the information given... how could you verify an un-notarized lease agreement? To me it seems much easier for a criminal to commit fraud using a Lease agreement rather than a utility bill. Obviously others agree with me, as several gun shops REQUIRE you to notarize the lease (as mine did), but will take a utility bill without a problem. I did not say it was the law to get it notarized, I said that MY LGS required that it be notarized, and that to me it seems silly to accept an un-notarized lease as POR, as it would be very easy for a criminal to forge such a document. Thanks for the clarification that it is not in fact in the law, however you still need to ask the specific gun shop ahead of time because they might require it.

I apologize for re-stating what you said at the beginning, however I was replying in response to IntoForever's "Pretty much" answer, which was incorrect/misleading and posted after several people posted about a lease agreement. I was merely reminding the OP that he has that option, and telling him about my experience since I JUST went through the process of drawing up a lease for the same purpose just three days ago.

Oh, and +1 to your above post. I don't have a house or a wife/kids but that doesn't mean I don't need to protect myself or my family/friends...

dascoyne
12-23-2010, 11:20 PM
umm, maybe your life?
Thanks for killing my joke.

ExZeRoEx
12-23-2010, 11:54 PM
that would probably be easiest. If you don't have one, you can have a lease/rental agreement drawn up pretty easy to cover your POR.

Now, if he isn't willing to do that, and you have the time, get your C&R FFL and that will cover your POR.

You can use a C&R FFL as your POR?

ke6guj
12-23-2010, 11:59 PM
You can use a C&R FFL as your POR?

sure can.

d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following:
1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
I've had CADOJ verbally confirm that on the phone and have used my 03FFL at multiple FFLs as POR.

SJgunguy24
12-24-2010, 12:07 AM
I know my brother used a fishing license. Counted as a goverment document. Not sure if that would still work.

Not valid for POR.

umm, maybe your life?

Come on Jack, that's not a good enough reason in my county.

I'm not a hippy and I ride a bike, sometimes with a gun too. I use my C&R and COE.

MarioS
12-24-2010, 12:28 AM
sure can.


I've had CADOJ verbally confirm that on the phone and have used my 03FFL at multiple FFLs as POR.

+1. I've used mine as well as valid POR. FFL's seem pretty quick to take it.

eldercaddy
12-24-2010, 2:06 AM
hi Some Guy. I just want to ask, what is the year and the model your vehicle and how much was it sold? Just curious about this thing.

eccvets
12-24-2010, 2:07 AM
can you just buy a very cheap used car, reg it, and use that as POR?

Mofo-Kang
12-24-2010, 4:15 AM
You can use a C&R FFL as your POR?

I did the last time I made a handgun purchase.

I believe you can also use a cell phone bill as a "utility bill."

707electrician
12-24-2010, 6:46 AM
I did the last time I made a handgun purchase.

I believe you can also use a cell phone bill as a "utility bill."

Can't be a mobile service. Land line bill would work. Cable bill, electric bill, gas bill also work

RustyMacHine
12-24-2010, 7:46 AM
I use my:
-Green Card
-Ca. DL
-Vehicle Registration (in his case Optional)
Since I turned over my utility bills over to him Jan 2010 I use
-Lease Agreement(printed off the internet) since I live with my brother he filled it out from August 1 2001 to December 21 2012 not notarized.
DOJ- can come knock on my door and verify this if they want, BTW.

Yes, I am a Law-Abiding-FOREIGNER since 1996!

mds2004
12-24-2010, 11:15 AM
I use my boat registration or C&R, depending what quickest to grab.

peetul83
12-24-2010, 6:41 PM
I use my:
-Green Card
-Ca. DL
-Vehicle Registration (in his case Optional)
Since I turned over my utility bills over to him Jan 2010 I use
-Lease Agreement(printed off the internet) since I live with my brother he filled it out from August 1 2001 to December 21 2012 not notarized.
DOJ- can come knock on my door and verify this if they want, BTW.

Yes, I am a Law-Abiding-FOREIGNER since 1996!

I just updated my driver's license address to my current address at the DMV. They handed me an interim driver's license (temp paper printout). My driver's license shows the old address. I have a green card, lease agreement (non-notarized) of my current address. I have 3 months of utility bills of my current address. Would these documents mentioned above be enough to purchase a handgun?

cowboy777
12-24-2010, 6:57 PM
I had that dilemma once. I had my landlord write out on 3 hole lined paper that I rented from that address and signed it and that was good enough for turners

Nodda Duma
12-25-2010, 5:29 AM
A friend of mine has a similar issue. For tax reasons (he's a doctor who runs a practice), everything is in his wife's name. House, bills, vehicle, everything. He ends up winning a rifle and two handguns at the Friends of NRA dinner, but can't get then because he has no obvious proof of residence. What will work?

jtmkinsd
12-25-2010, 10:57 AM
A friend of mine has a similar issue. For tax reasons (he's a doctor who runs a practice), everything is in his wife's name. House, bills, vehicle, everything. He ends up winning a rifle and two handguns at the Friends of NRA dinner, but can't get then because he has no obvious proof of residence. What will work?

Tell him to go fill out a voter registration card...or is that in his wife's name too? :43: