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IronCobra
12-23-2010, 9:51 AM
Maybe missed some of this before, sorry if this is a rehash of some past discussions.

I was wondering if there were any legal obligations of the buyer, when doing a C&R long gun PPT (Not through a FFL). ( I do not have a 03 FFL)

For example as a seller, I would confirm legal status (age) and would ask if they were prohibited.

As a buyer, if the seller does not ask for my DL, my age, if I am prohibited, if i have a safe, ect.

Am I legally obligated to show/mention any of that if I am not asked(I am not prohibited, well over 18, and I have a safe)?

thanks

littlejake
12-23-2010, 2:00 PM
Maybe missed some of this before, sorry if this is a rehash of some past discussions.

I was wondering if there were any legal obligations of the buyer, when doing a C&R long gun PPT (Not through a FFL). ( I do not have a 03 FFL)

For example as a seller, I would confirm legal status (age) and would ask if they were prohibited.

As a buyer, if the seller does not ask for my DL, my age, if I am prohibited, if i have a safe, ect.

Am I legally obligated to show/mention any of that if I am not asked(I am not prohibited, well over 18, and I have a safe)?

thanks

Not a lawyer here...

IMHO -- you are not obligated to volunteer information you are not asked about. Still, it would be crime if you came into possession of a gun if you were a prohibited person. So, AFAIK, your obligation is to be sure you are not a prohibited person. BTW -- be sure that C&R long gun is 50 years old or greater; and it can be proven so. And, that you are both residents of the state of CA. The PC for such a transfer is found in PC 12078 (t)(2).

I would be wary of a seller who didn't want enough info to record who he sold it to... the seller might be a fence.

OpenSightsOnly
12-23-2010, 3:10 PM
Maybe missed some of this before, sorry if this is a rehash of some past discussions.

I was wondering if there were any legal obligations of the buyer, when doing a C&R long gun PPT (Not through a FFL). ( I do not have a 03 FFL)

For example as a seller, I would confirm legal status (age) and would ask if they were prohibited.

As a buyer, if the seller does not ask for my DL, my age, if I am prohibited, if i have a safe, ect.

Am I legally obligated to show/mention any of that if I am not asked(I am not prohibited, well over 18, and I have a safe)?

thanks


I always have a bill of sale. Both parties sign and attest.

Do a search here.

Anchors
12-23-2010, 4:11 PM
Do criminals really know about FTF long guns over 50 years old?

Or even care about guns like that?

Seems like the red flag would be "~Yo Dawg, I heard you like gats, so I'ma sell you this gat for straight cash, so you can shoot while you shoot". With no knowledge of the phrase "C&R"

SanPedroShooter
12-24-2010, 6:26 AM
All the homies on my block love their C&R's! Its like boyz in tha hood meets antique roadshow down here...

Anchors
12-24-2010, 7:24 AM
All the homies on my block love their C&R's! Its like boyz in tha hood meets antique roadshow down here...

Hahaha. So THAT'S why the prices keep going up.

SVT_Fox
12-24-2010, 8:50 AM
straight thuggin with my ghetto blaster 42 izzy!

SanPedroShooter
12-24-2010, 9:51 PM
You know ghetto blaster is a good name for my 54' M44. I bought it in the ghetto, well gardena, from another calgunner. Paid in cash out the back of his truck...

trautert
12-24-2010, 10:02 PM
After the chuckles.... to the OP: The important thing as a buyer is that you know and meet the obligations as it pertains to you. Personally I would like to feel like I wasn't buying a stolen gun from the seller either. Bill of sale at the least.

SanPedroShooter
12-25-2010, 7:50 AM
I have a bound book, but if i didnt i would write up a little release identifying the seller (name, maybe an address etc...) and stating his intent to transfer interest/ownership of the gun.

IronCobra
12-25-2010, 10:04 AM
After the chuckles.... to the OP: The important thing as a buyer is that you know and meet the obligations as it pertains to you. Personally I would like to feel like I wasn't buying a stolen gun from the seller either. Bill of sale at the least.

I have a bound book, but if i didnt i would write up a little release identifying the seller (name, maybe an address etc...) and stating his intent to transfer interest/ownership of the gun.

My question was more about the law,not about common sense or what i would/should do.

Are you legally obligated to obtain a bill of sale or a release?

Are you legally obligated to question the seller even if you have no suspicions that the gun could be stolen?

(If the gun is stolen and you highly suspect/know, and still purchase - I know that this is a crime)

SanPedroShooter
12-26-2010, 8:51 AM
Obviously, its illegal for a prohibited person to obtain a firearm, how you ascertain someones status is up to you. I dont think there is any requirement to get a release or bill of sale or anything if you dont want to. Its just like any other sale of a regulated item that takes place in private.
Thousands of guns get sold back and forth for cash, in private, every year in free states.
I dont think you will find any PC section that lays out specific instructions for determining someones eligibilty. It comes down to what a resonable person would belive. You could get in trouble for not taking due dilligence maybe, but what does that mean? Checking ID? Running a private background check? What would a reasonable person do?
It might be good sense, but its not law.
Maybe check the calguns faq page?

CSACANNONEER
12-26-2010, 9:04 AM
I would be wary of a seller who didn't want enough info to record who he sold it to... the seller might be a fence.

Give me a break! I've bought and sold dozens of guns, over the years, without any paperwork at all. Prior to '91, this was very common practice since, many firearms were sold at swap meets, garage sales, newspaper adds, etc. Even today, there is no law requiring a seller to retain any info on C&R sales. So, why would someone who is following the law be suspect of being a "fence"? You need to put a few vent holes in your TFH. Of course, you're free to conduct your bussiness as you see fit but, don't get your panties in a bunch when you find someone who is following the law but not doing what you and the Bradys think is right.

Khram
12-28-2010, 3:30 PM
I agree totally with csa and I think many in CA are so brainwashed by the mentality here and so paranoid that they ask for stuff like bill of sale and such.

In fact I won't buy from someone like that, sorry but I'm not giving my personal info with my address to a complete strange that now knows I have a house full of guns if it can be avoided. Guess I have a TFH as well.

You want to buy a C&R over 50yo rifle from me? I will ask you if you are over the legal age to own it,are not prohibited from owning guns, and are a CA resident. You answer correctly and give me cash gun is yours. I may even shake your hand and thats it. Wow, freedom, imagine that.

I have no problem giving my info to a 03 C&R holder since it's required and at least they had to go through a background check.

CSACANNONEER
12-28-2010, 6:23 PM
I agree totally with csa and I think many in CA are so brainwashed by the mentality here and so paranoid that they ask for stuff like bill of sale and such.

In fact I won't buy from someone like that, sorry but I'm not giving my personal info with my address to a complete strange that now knows I have a house full of guns if it can be avoided. Guess I have a TFH as well.

You want to buy a C&R over 50yo rifle from me? I will ask you if you are over the legal age to own it,are not prohibited from owning guns, and are a CA resident. You answer correctly and give me cash gun is yours. I may even shake your hand and thats it. Wow, freedom, imagine that.

I have no problem giving my info to a 03 C&R holder since it's required and at least they had to go through a background check.

Excellent post! I have either given a copy of my DL or scanned and sent it to C&R holders within the last year or so. But, I've also bought and sold several C&Rs lately with only a handshake. BTW, I do not have a 03.

Cokebottle
12-28-2010, 7:17 PM
I agree totally with csa and I think many in CA are so brainwashed by the mentality here and so paranoid that they ask for stuff like bill of sale and such.

In fact I won't buy from someone like that, sorry but I'm not giving my personal info with my address to a complete strange that now knows I have a house full of guns if it can be avoided. Guess I have a TFH as well.

You want to buy a C&R over 50yo rifle from me? I will ask you if you are over the legal age to own it,are not prohibited from owning guns, and are a CA resident. You answer correctly and give me cash gun is yours. I may even shake your hand and thats it. Wow, freedom, imagine that.

I have no problem giving my info to a 03 C&R holder since it's required and at least they had to go through a background check.
I'm with you 100%.

Khram
12-30-2010, 12:17 PM
You guys should use portions of my post above for a sig line :) Also with most C&R guns I've sold or given away I'm fairly certain the buyer did not intend to stick up a liquor store or commit a mass murder with it.

Gee, maybe I shouldn't have given an antique Argentine Mauser ftf to my dads friend down the street. This guy in his 60's is probably itching to go put in some work with it and do a drive by.

Khram
01-06-2011, 1:52 PM
I thought of a solution for the nervous nellies but I feel many wouldn't accept. I asked one in PM before but he didn't reply. I suppose I could show you a copy of my passport, it shows my identity as a US citizen but no address. I'd not mind showing a CDL but I'd not allow you to see the address or copy it. If pic matches and it's valid and obviously not fake that should be good enough.