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View Full Version : Now I have my C&R, but I'm a little confused.


OHOD
12-22-2010, 7:07 PM
Here is what I know about qualifying C&R firearms and being an FFL03...
(As far as Kalifornia is concerned)
The assumption on these questions is that the firearm is a qualified C&R.
The person buying or selling is allowed to buy or sell a firearm; no felony, over 21 for handguns, over 18 for rifles. The FFL03 is not in the business of buying or selling, rather the FFL03 is building their collection with infrequent transfers.


1. Interstate online purchasing of rifles is good to go.

2. For handguns, Interstate online purchasing -> handgun must be sent to an FFL01 for transfer.

3. For handguns picked up in person out of state, the handgun must be registered with CA DOJ within 5 days. $19 fee.

4. For rifles picked up in person out of state, no problemo, enjoy your purchase.

Here is where I am beginning to get confused...

5. When in California a qualifying C&R rifle can be bought or sold to a private party without an FFL01 making the transfer.

Q. Do both parties have to be an FFL03?

6. When in California a qualifying C&R handgun bought or sold to a private party must be transferred using an FFL01. No leeway, an FFL01 is mandatory.

Q. Does the FFL01 keep the handgun till the waiting period is over? Or is there even a waiting period?

The following is related to an FFL03 with or without a COE...

7. An FFL03 with COE can buy any C&R qualifying rifle without a background check or 10 day wait. Cash and carry.

Q. If an FFL03 without COE, then you must get a background check and wait 10 days? No cash and carry, right?
This is the reason an FFL03 is desirable for collectors in California, online buying is permissable.

8. An FFL03 with COE can buy more than 1 modern handgun per month. 30-day wait is still required for each handgun and background check is not needed because he/she has a COE.

Q. Does the COE apply to those persons without an FFL03? For instance John wants to get a COE but does not have an FFL03; just so he can buy more than 1 modern handgun per month. Or do you need to be an FFL03 as well?

9. I'm not even going to ask about ammunition.


Final question...
Has anyone developed a C&R flow-sheet?

rjf
12-22-2010, 7:33 PM
1. Interstate online purchasing of rifles is good to go.

2. For handguns, Interstate online purchasing -> handgun must be sent to an FFL01 for transfer.

3. For handguns picked up in person out of state, the handgun must be registered with CA DOJ within 5 days. $19 fee.

4. For rifles picked up in person out of state, no problemo, enjoy your purchase.

Here is where I am beginning to get confused...

5. When in California a qualifying C&R rifle can be bought or sold to a private party without an FFL01 making the transfer.

Q. Do both parties have to be an FFL03?

In CA, a C&R can be transfered 03 to 03, 03 to qualified unlicensed, and unlicenced to qualified unlicensed. 01 FFL involvement requires DROS, 10 day wait, fees and taxes.

6. When in California a qualifying C&R handgun bought or sold to a private party must be transferred using an FFL01. No leeway, an FFL01 is mandatory.

Q. Does the FFL01 keep the handgun till the waiting period is over? Or is there even a waiting period?

Yes, 10 day wait plus fees and taxes.

The following is related to an FFL03 with or without a COE...

7. An FFL03 with COE can buy any C&R qualifying rifle without a background check or 10 day wait. Cash and carry.

True if you can find a dealer to cooperate.

Q. If an FFL03 without COE, then you must get a background check and wait 10 days? No cash and carry, right?

Only if purchasing from an 01 FFL

This is the reason an FFL03 is desirable for collectors in California, online buying is permissable.

Yes, no CA paperwork, no fees, no taxes, lower price, shipped to your door.

8. An FFL03 with COE can buy more than 1 modern handgun per month. 30-day wait is still required for each handgun and background check is not needed because he/she has a COE.

Believe this is true.

Q. Does the COE apply to those persons without an FFL03? For instance John wants to get a COE but does not have an FFL03; just so he can buy more than 1 modern handgun per month. Or do you need to be an FFL03 as well?

Believe this is true, no FFL 03 required

9. I'm not even going to ask about ammunition.

Reload

jmlivingston
12-22-2010, 8:02 PM
Here is what I know about qualifying C&R firearms and being an FFL03...
(As far as Kalifornia is concerned)
The assumption on these questions is that the firearm is a qualified C&R.
The person buying or selling is allowed to buy or sell a firearm; no felony, over 21 for handguns, over 18 for rifles. The FFL03 is not in the business of buying or selling, rather the FFL03 is building their collection with infrequent transfers.

There is more to it than just being "a qualified C&R". As you've probably seen us rant about more than once, there is "C&R" which is defined by the Feds and then in CA there is the DROS/FFL exemption for longarms that are not only C&R but also at least 50 years old.

Final question...
Has anyone developed a C&R flow-sheet?

Not that I know of, but thanks for volunteering. ;)

Croweman08
12-22-2010, 8:05 PM
i'm working on my second interstate commerce purchase with my C&R actually probably wouldn't need it since its pre 1898. Yet another winchester my gf has to endure! hahah oh and this one is a 73!!! you need to get on the ball ohod!!!!

jmlivingston
12-22-2010, 8:09 PM
The following is related to an FFL03 with or without a COE...

7. An FFL03 with COE can buy any C&R qualifying rifle without a background check or 10 day wait. Cash and carry.

True if you can find a dealer to cooperate.

8. An FFL03 with COE can buy more than 1 modern handgun per month. 30-day wait is still required for each handgun and background check is not needed because he/she has a COE.

Believe this is true.


I'm not sure those answers are completely accurate. The COE/FFL03 combo does waive the 10-day waiting period, however I'm pretty sure that the DROS process continues with it's accompanying background check.

John

ke6guj
12-22-2010, 8:18 PM
I'm not sure those answers are completely accurate. The COE/FFL03 combo does waive the 10-day waiting period, however I'm pretty sure that the DROS process continues with it's accompanying background check.

John

correct, the DROS gets processed and sent to CADOJ. But after it is sent, you can immediately take it home. CADOJ will probably still BG check you, but you don't have to wait for it to be done.

12078(t)(1) The waiting period described in Sections 12071 or 12072 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, by a dealer to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071. On the date that the delivery, sale, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 12077. C&R + COE exempts you from the waiting period, but the DROS is still sent in and they could BG check you if they wanted to.

ke6guj
12-22-2010, 8:31 PM
1. Interstate online purchasing of rifles is good to go.of C&R long guns over 50-years old, yes. If <50-years old, must go through an 01FFL.

2. For handguns, Interstate online purchasing -> handgun must be sent to an FFL01 for transfer.correct.

3. For handguns picked up in person out of state, the handgun must be registered with CA DOJ within 5 days. $19 fee.

4. For rifles picked up in person out of state, no problemo, enjoy your purchase.
correct for both as long as they are C&Rs of any age.

Here is where I am beginning to get confused...

5. When in California a qualifying C&R rifle can be bought or sold to a private party without an FFL01 making the transfer.

Q. Do both parties have to be an FFL03?as long as over 50-years old, correct. no 01FFL needed.

As for 03FFLs, doesn't matter either way. with or without 03FFLs, the deal happens the same way. Just if there are any 03FFLs involved, federal law requires them to log the other party's info into their bound book.

6. When in California a qualifying C&R handgun bought or sold to a private party must be transferred using an FFL01. No leeway, an FFL01 is mandatory.

Q. Does the FFL01 keep the handgun till the waiting period is over? Or is there even a waiting period?correct. must use 01FFL. 01FFL must hold handgun during the 10j-day wait. Now, if you are an 03FFL+COE buying the handgun, you could cash-and-carry right after the PPT DROS is processed.

The following is related to an FFL03 with or without a COE...

7. An FFL03 with COE can buy any C&R qualifying rifle without a background check or 10 day wait. Cash and carry.cash and carry, but a DROS has to be done first (which means you get BG checked after the fact).

Q. If an FFL03 without COE, then you must get a background check and wait 10 days? No cash and carry, right?
This is the reason an FFL03 is desirable for collectors in California, online buying is permissable. [/quote]correct]

8. An FFL03 with COE can buy more than 1 modern handgun per month. 30-day wait is still required for each handgun and background check is not needed because he/she has a COE.
10-day wait, not 30, but yes, you can buy multiple modern handguns per month. but a DROS must be submitted, and I doubht that CADOJ skips the BG check just because you have a current COE.

Q. Does the COE apply to those persons without an FFL03? For instance John wants to get a COE but does not have an FFL03; just so he can buy more than 1 modern handgun per month. Or do you need to be an FFL03 as well?must ahve both the 03FFL AND the COE for the exemption to the 1-per-month rule.


Final question...
Has anyone developed a C&R flow-sheet?nope, and I'm not gonna. the handgun and shotgun flowcharts were a pain, don't wnat to do anymore.

OHOD
12-23-2010, 1:50 PM
i'm working on my second interstate commerce purchase with my C&R actually probably wouldn't need it since its pre 1898. Yet another winchester my gf has to endure! hahah oh and this one is a 73!!! you need to get on the ball ohod!!!!

Arrrrgh!
I'm trying already!
I'll be making that J&G run soon enough. :D