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Jayrad
12-21-2010, 10:10 AM
I read the sticky above regarding transfering C&R firearms, but didn't come across this situation. I was wanting to give my brother that lives in another state one of my Mosin Nagants. From the above sticky it appears it is legal if he is living in California...but is it legal if he lives in another state?

Does it make a difference if I take it to him or if he comes to pick it up? Appreciate any input.

Milsurp Collector
12-21-2010, 10:25 AM
A transfer of a firearm from the resident of one state to the resident of a different state must involve a FFL (01 or 03), even if the transfer is a gift and even if you are transferring face to face.


§ 922 Unlawful acts.
(a) It shall be unlawful—

(5) for any person (other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give,
transport, or deliver any firearm to any
person (other than a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer,
or licensed collector) who the transferor
knows or has reasonable cause to believe
does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity,
does not maintain a place of business
in) the State in which the
transferor resides; except that this
paragraph shall not apply to (A) the
transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
firearm made to carry out a bequest of
a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate
succession of a firearm by, a person
who is permitted to acquire or
possess a firearm under the laws of the
State of his residence, and (B) the loan
or rental of a firearm to any person for
temporary use for lawful sporting purposes

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Jayrad
12-21-2010, 1:00 PM
Excuse my ignorance Milsurp Collector...but one more question. Does the fact that I have a current C&R license effect the situation. Saw the quote you posted saying you need to be licensed to transfer. Would that mean my brother would also have to have a C&R license. If I am missing something I apologize...just want to make sure I am clear as possible. Maybe I'll also go and read thru ATF publication again.... Thanks

emcon5
12-21-2010, 2:25 PM
Excuse my ignorance Milsurp Collector...but one more question. Does the fact that I have a current C&R license effect the situation. Saw the quote you posted saying you need to be licensed to transfer. Would that mean my brother would also have to have a C&R license. If I am missing something I apologize...just want to make sure I am clear as possible. Maybe I'll also go and read thru ATF publication again.... Thanks

The short version is it will have to go through an FFL in his state. The easiest is for him to send in the paperwork to get a C&R FFL, as it is only $30 and most dealers will charge more than that for the transfer anyway.

ke6guj
12-21-2010, 3:22 PM
if you have an 03FFL, AFAIK, you can transfer a 50+ year-old C&R Long gun to your out-of-state brother, provided that you do the transfer at your licensed premisis and log the transfer into your bound book.

Milsurp Collector
12-21-2010, 3:39 PM
if you have an 03FFL, AFAIK, you can transfer a 50+ year-old C&R Long gun to your out-of-state brother, provided that you do the transfer at your licensed premisis and log the transfer into your bound book.

I think that is correct.

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has
reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a
place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of
business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not
apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a
resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's
place of business is located if the transferee meets in person
with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale,
delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of
sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer
or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph,
in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual
knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both
States)

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

ke6guj
12-21-2010, 3:50 PM
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#out-of-state-sale

Q: Can a licensed collector sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State?Yes. A licensed collector is specifically authorized to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State so long as 1) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee’s premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; and 2) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States.

[27 CFR 478.96 (c)(1)]

and here is the supporting regulation.
§ 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales.

(c)(1) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell or deliver a rifle or shotgun, and a licensed collector may sell or deliver a rifle or shotgun that is a curio or relic to a nonlicensed resident of a State other than the State in which the licensee's place of business is located if—

(i) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee's premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun;

(ii) The licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer complies with the provisions of §478.102;

(iii) The purchaser furnishes to the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by §478.124; and

(iv) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States.
so federal law would allow you to sell a C&R long gun to an out-of-state resident, but CA law limits dealerless transfer to just those C&R long guns that are over 50-years old.

emcon5
12-21-2010, 6:27 PM
but CA law limits dealerless transfer to just those C&R long guns that are over 50-years old.C&Rs must still abide by all state and local laws, does CA allow a sale to a non resident, non FFL?

I tried sifting through the Penal code to see for myself, but trying to make sense of it ended up making me want to stick a pickle fork in my eye.:mad:

ke6guj
12-21-2010, 6:34 PM
C&Rs must still abide by all state and local laws, does CA allow a sale to a non resident, non FFL?


the exemption to the PPT requirement does not limit it to just CA-residents.
12078(t)(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.