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Mr. Casull
12-21-2010, 4:19 AM
Has anybody ever converted one of the 303 Brittish to 30.06? I know that some Enfields were built in the 30.06 config. 30.06 is easier to come by if you buy your ammo or reload.

TrailerparkTrash
12-21-2010, 4:41 AM
Why the heck would you wanna do that? The .303 British is a classic gun, don't screw it up by rechambering to the '06. If you want an 06, got buy a 1903 Springfield or any other 30-06 rifle.

berg
12-21-2010, 7:11 AM
It sounds like you are thinking of the Eddystone M1917 "Enfield" in .30-06. These were not the same as the British No4 mk1 Enfield in .303.
http://www.neaca.com/images/Military_Rifles_Mauser_Eddystone_Enfield_1_.JPG

M1917 in the middle, No4 on the bottom.

offrdmania
12-21-2010, 7:55 AM
Wow, what a beautiful stock set of that 1917, wish I could find one like that for mine

Mr. Casull
12-21-2010, 11:21 AM
The Americans were producing some of the Brittish 303 Enfields and used the tooling to produce guns in 30.06 as the following for a gun on auction

" Winchester 1917 Enfield. 30-06. Serial number 5070xx. Metal retains most original finish. Stock appears to be refinished and has had two professional repairs. Barrel is a non-dated high standard which is correct. Barrel does have the CAI small stamp on it. Bore; though not bright; still shows very shootable rifling. Hard to find Winchester 1917.

On second thought I probably would convert it to a 308 which is what India did with some. The gun isn't expensive and there are alot of them to be had. Right now it is taking up space in my safe and is not being shot.

Argonaut
12-21-2010, 11:33 AM
All 1917's were 30/06, The 303 British version was a P14. Same gun in most ways. I have converted many P14's to large magnum calibers. they are well suited as the large extractor and bolt face is a good fit to the belted magnums. They are all very fine rifles built on several patents stolen from Mauser and the basis for the M700 Remington. I am not sure how the shorter 308 round would feed but it would probably be fine with a little tinkering. They are as strong a bolt action as was ever built and have great sights, similar to the Grand.

Mr. Casull
12-21-2010, 11:35 AM
Just went to the Lee Enfield forum and found out that the 303 can't take the pressures of either the 308 or 30.06 so a conversion is not possible if one wants to keep all of your body parts!!

Argonaut
12-21-2010, 11:39 AM
Lee Enfields were converted to 308 by the British in the 50's. They were later model actions, you see them for sale from time to time, but they work fine by all accounts.

eighteenninetytwo
12-21-2010, 4:20 PM
The Lee Enfield L42A1 was the Army sniper rifle which was in service up to and including the first gulf war. These were converted from 1940's .303 No.4 'T' sniper rifles in teh 1960's and 1970's. They seemed to work OK.

bigstick61
12-21-2010, 5:14 PM
There are conversions of the No. 4 and No. 5 as well as conversion kits (including barrel, clip guide adapter, ejector, extractor, magazine, and bolt head) for them out there, not to mention the later Ishapore 2As in .308. There are also sniper conversions to .308 like the L39 and L42. The Aussies converted some No.1 MkIII and No. 6 rifles but when a percentage of them failed they stopped trying. I think the .30-06 may actually be too long for the L-E action. You certainly wouldn't be able to use it to its potential if you could make it work.

todd2968
12-21-2010, 5:33 PM
It's not like ammo is hard to find


http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

Interloper
12-21-2010, 9:38 PM
They were never converted to .30-'06. You are thinking of the 7.62 NATO conversions performed at Ishapore. I have never read an account of one of these blowing up but it really is asking a lot from the Enfield action. Just look at how the bolt locks up.

bigstick61
12-22-2010, 8:57 AM
The Ishapores aren't conversions. The Lee-Enfield is quite capable of handling the .308 cartridge.

hybridatsun350
12-22-2010, 10:09 AM
Lee Enfields were converted to 308 by the British in the 50's. They were later model actions, you see them for sale from time to time, but they work fine by all accounts.

Not .308, 7.62x51. A different cartridge.

The Lee-Enfield is quite capable of handling the .308 cartridge.

You're probably right. However, the Enfields built in 7.62x51 were not designed for the pressures of .308. It's a shoot at your own risk situation. It's like shooting GP11 in a Schmidt-Rubin 1889. It will probably work, but it wont be my face with a bolt handle sticking out of it!

Argonaut
12-22-2010, 10:18 AM
Not .308, 7.62x51. A different cartridge.



You're probably right. However, the Enfields built in 7.62x51 were not designed for the pressures of .308. It's a shoot at your own risk situation. It's like shooting GP11 in a Schmidt-Rubin 1889. It will probably work, but it wont be my face with a bolt handle sticking out of it!

Do you really want to revisit that stupid conversation?

hybridatsun350
12-22-2010, 11:01 AM
Do you really want to revisit that stupid conversation?

Don't post false information and it wont be an issue.

Interloper
12-22-2010, 11:02 AM
Well, there is a pressure difference, according to SAAMI. If it were me I would handload for it with a slightly reduced charge.
People claim that those 7mm Mausers converted to .308 and the Bannerman Mosin conversions to .30-'06 are unsafe but there are simply no reputable accounts of them failing. The Ishapore Enfields aren't strictly legal in CA anyway due to the 12 round magazine. ;)

berg
12-22-2010, 3:05 PM
The Ishapore Enfields aren't strictly legal in CA anyway due to the 12 round magazine. ;)

Sure they are. http://www.promagindustries.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ENF+02

gazzavc
12-22-2010, 4:42 PM
The exploding .308 Lee Enfield is an urban legend.

go to http://www.milsurps.com/ and read up on all the info regarding the Lee-Enfield , the conversions and the "exploding enfield myth"

Cheers

Gaz

IronCobra
12-22-2010, 4:47 PM
I've seen some Enfields that were sporterized and converted to .45-70
Anyone know anything about those?
Safe?

mj1
12-22-2010, 5:59 PM
LOL!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/46f04451.jpg
L42

Cato
12-22-2010, 6:26 PM
303 is a fine round, leave that Enfield alone!

smle-man
12-22-2010, 7:55 PM
My converted #4s to 7.62mm. They haven't blown up yet.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/P7150008.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/4m12762-2.jpg

And an Ishapore 2A1. Hasn't blown up either.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/2a1.jpg

bigstick61
12-22-2010, 8:51 PM
I recall reading an article that was pretty detailed and pretty much demonstrated that the whole big difference between 7.62 and .308 thing is nothing more than a load of crock and that if it is safe to shoot one it is safe to shoot the other.

hybridatsun350
12-22-2010, 11:17 PM
Never did I say that the rifles wouldn't hold up to the abuse as I am a huge fan of the Enfield rifle and know how robust they are. All I said was that it wont be me behind one that lets go. As I said before, do it at your own risk. You can't ignore the pressure differences between 7.62x51 (50,000 psi) and .308 (62,000 psi). They are MORE than significant.

I've seen some Enfields that were sporterized and converted to .45-70
Anyone know anything about those?
Safe?

The .45-70 is a relatively low pressure cartridge (28,000 psi). I wouldn't question the safety of those rifles.

Interloper
12-22-2010, 11:27 PM
Sure they are. http://www.promagindustries.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ENF+02

Like I said. Not strictly legal. If you buy one online out of state you either need to convince the seller to disassemble the mag or simply ship the rifle without one. As is, not legal.

I've seen some Enfields that were sporterized and converted to .45-70
Anyone know anything about those?
Safe?

Pretty sure those are Santa Fe Arms conversions. The 45-70 is well within the pressure specs of the Enfield action and I believe 45-70 and .303 Brit have the same rim diameter (as does .410 shotshell), meaning the standard Enfield bolt works without modification. As I recall, the magazines do need to be modified, though.

smle-man
12-23-2010, 6:04 PM
Gibbs (Navy Arms) did a conversion several years ago on #1 actions to .45-70. They take a special 3 rd magazine.

Argonaut
12-23-2010, 6:15 PM
Never did I say that the rifles wouldn't hold up to the abuse as I am a huge fan of the Enfield rifle and know how robust they are. All I said was that it wont be me behind one that lets go. As I said before, do it at your own risk. You can't ignore the pressure differences between 7.62x51 (50,000 psi) and .308 (62,000 psi). They are MORE than significant.



The .45-70 is a relatively low pressure cartridge (28,000 psi). I wouldn't question the safety of those rifles.

Geee.....a 24% increase in an action that was proofed to a 200% overcharge.

hybridatsun350
12-23-2010, 6:58 PM
Geee.....a 24% increase in an action that was proofed to a 200% overcharge.

Show me proof of that 200% number and I'll join your side. Until then, all I'm trying to say is it wont be me behind one if it finally decides to let go. Discussion over.

Argonaut
12-23-2010, 7:32 PM
Show me proof of that 200% number and I'll join your side. Until then, all I'm trying to say is it wont be me behind one if it finally decides to let go. Discussion over.

The STANDARD for proofing is 200% of a "normal" charge. Lee-Enfields were designed for the high pressure 280 Ross cartridge but time was short before WW1 so, they were made in the well established 303 round. In the De Haas Bolt action rifles of the world, He refers to the Lee Enfield as one of the strongest actions in the world. No one thinks anything about rebarreling a M98 8mm Mauser (35,000 PSI) to belted magnums rated at 65,000 PSI. Not to mention, the original 8X57 was only loaded to 35,000 and modern factory loads are normally rated at 57,000. When was the last failure that you heard of with a M98?

hybridatsun350
12-23-2010, 7:53 PM
The STANDARD for proofing is 200% of a "normal" charge. Lee-Enfields were designed for the high pressure 280 Ross cartridge but time was short before WW1 so, they were made in the well established 303 round. In the De Haas Bolt action rifles of the world, He refers to the Lee Enfield as one of the strongest actions in the world. No one thinks anything about rebarreling a M98 8mm Mauser (35,000 PSI) to belted magnums rated at 65,000 PSI. Not to mention, the original 8X57 was only loaded to 35,000 and modern factory loads are normally rated at 57,000. When was the last failure that you heard of with a M98?

You telling me something is true wasn't my idea of evidence or proof. A 7.62x51 proof load is 67,000 psi. How is that 200%?

Also, the strength of the Mauser action is of no consequence to the strength of the Enfield action.

Edit: I'm pretty sure the .280 Ross was a high-40k psi cartridge (Just like the .303). What was your point there?

Argonaut
12-23-2010, 8:00 PM
You telling me something is true wasn't my idea of evidence or proof. A 7.62x51 proof load is 67,000 psi. How is that 200%?

Also, the strength of the Mauser action is of no consequence to the strength of the Enfield action.

200% of the original 303 load (49,000 Lb) would be the standard for proofing, and when reproofed for the 7.62 conversions it would have been to 2 X 60,000. I was only using your logic with the comparison to the M98 Mauser.

hybridatsun350
12-23-2010, 8:08 PM
200% of the original 303 load (49,000 Lb) would be the standard for proofing, and when reproofed for the 7.62 conversions it would have been to 2 X 60,000. I was only using your logic with the comparison to the M98 Mauser.

We're not talking .303 here; we're talking 7.62x51 and NATO's spec for a 7.62x51 proof load is 67,500 psi.

What logic are you referring to? My Schmidt-Rubin analogy? :confused:

gazzavc
12-23-2010, 8:25 PM
LOL!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/46f04451.jpg
L42

You lucky lucky bugger !!!

I want !!!

Argonaut
12-23-2010, 8:42 PM
I was referring to your idea that the Lee Enfield was not strong enough because the original cartridge it was built for had a low pressure rating.......The Proof load for a 7.62 is 2 X 67,500. The normal pressure developed is 67,500 or less. In the old days......Ammo would vary greatly, particularly surplus ammo. I remember people talking about ammo designed for machine guns being heavy overload when being shot in handguns or rifles. there were some case failures but I never knew of a catastrophic failure caused by the heavier loads. And by the way......SAAMI says that it is safe to shoot 308 in 7.62 rifles and visa versa even though there are minor differences. The other "Elephant in the room" Is how gases are handled if there is a failure. M98's have ports in the bolt that direct them down into the magazine, away from the shooter's face. Other rifles are not so well designed, ( I don't remember how the Lee Enfield deals with it and I am too lazy to dig out mine to see) So, even though the action is strong enough, the emergency gas handling system might be insufficient in the instance of a ruptured case to protect the shooter from hot exhaust. Case failures are much more common than any sort of action failure.

hybridatsun350
12-23-2010, 8:50 PM
You're telling me a proof load for 7.62x51 is 135,000 psi!?! :rolleyes:

The Enfield has a port on the left side and a cutout on the right for gases to escape in instances of case failure. Once again, I'm done discussing this.

Argonaut
12-23-2010, 9:30 PM
You're telling me a proof load for 7.62x51 is 135,000 psi!?! :rolleyes:

The Enfield has a port on the left side and a cutout on the right for gases to escape in instances of case failure. Once again, I'm done discussing this.

PROOF LOADS ARE 2X NORMAL LOAD PRESSURES............

hybridatsun350
12-23-2010, 10:10 PM
PROOF LOADS ARE 2X NORMAL LOAD PRESSURES............

NEWS FLASH! THAT IS INCORRECT!

Argonaut
12-23-2010, 10:21 PM
Look up the London Proof House, It has been in business since nearly the beginning of firearms......and is the standard that most other Proof houses go by.......So, What is a Hybrid Datsun? A Kia?

smle-man
12-23-2010, 10:36 PM
The 7.62mm #4 Lee Enfield is re-prooved to 22 tons - whatever that is in PSI equivilant.

hybridatsun350
12-24-2010, 8:23 AM
The 7.62mm #4 Lee Enfield is re-prooved to 22 tons - whatever that is in PSI equivilant.

22 long tons is approximately 49,000 psi.