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View Full Version : .22 to hone PR skills?


send it_hit
12-20-2010, 11:34 AM
Hey all,

I have always been interested in long range precision shooting. I purchased a Savage 10 in .308, and actually have yet to shoot it. But in hindsight, I may have over-stepped my bounds before getting all the fundamentals down pat. I never was taught by anyone or gone to any sort of class (though I may be going down towards LA in January to do so...), so the thought crossed my mind... Would it be prudent to go ahead and invest in a good .22 (or .177HMR, though I've never shot it) target rifle? To train myself on all the basics, more so than I could learn by thumping away at the .308? And also, if anyone has ever used a .22/.177 to train themselves, please let me know if it worked or helped!

If this seems like a good idea, any suggestions? Probably want to stick with bolt action since that's what my .308 is and I already have a .223 AR. Are there REALLY .22's/.177's that are marginally more accurate than most? Accuracy-wise, is one round preferable? Been researching and will continue to...

Thanks :)

khw9mm
12-20-2010, 11:40 AM
savage mark II is pretty good. i just got one myself.

AeroEngi
12-20-2010, 12:03 PM
I think it's a great idea! I'm actually looking into purchasing a Ruger 10/22 to "train" and hone in my shooting skills primarily because if you can master a .22, then the fundamentals apply to everything else and two, .22 ammo is dirt cheap so you can practice as much as you want and not break the bank. Look into the Ruger 10/22, it's the most popular .22 rifle for a reason.

Scratch705
12-20-2010, 12:16 PM
10/22 would not be the best for his application as he wants to keep it bolt action.

anhero
12-20-2010, 12:34 PM
bang for the buck, an appleseed for basic rifle marksmanship is hard to beat. most instructors will also have loaner rifles for you to use, just provide the ammo.

as far as using a semi-auto vs. a bolt action to train with, the fundamentals are all the same, the mechanics are different, i.e. sight alignment, sight picture, natural point of aim, breath control, trigger squeeze, etc. are all the same.

same applies for scopes vs. iron sights, Minutes of Angle (MOA) is MOA, adjustment is dependent on the sights system. I prefer iron sights only because it forces you to concentrate on the fundamentals.

sling vs. bipod is dependent on the shooter. i prefer a sling as it requires more attention to detail and concentration on your fundamentals. you also have a lot of finer adjustments with using a sling vs. a bipod, and also helps create a stable platform.

DavidRSA
12-20-2010, 12:38 PM
savage mark II is pretty good. i just got one myself.

Ditto. Got the MKII with accutrigger. Really nice and economical way of practicing without the cost of shooting .308 rounds. And its more than just for practice...its really fun!!

OP- go for the savage and a fairly decent scope, you wont regret it.

anhero
12-20-2010, 12:38 PM
ruger 10/22 are nice because they have a lot of accessories. if you want to mimic the sight system for your AR15 A2, tech sights sells them as an aftermarket. you also have the benefit of having a good resale value if you decide to get rid of it.

scuds03
12-20-2010, 12:41 PM
Depends on how much you plan to shoot. Do some math and figure out how much .308 cartridges you can buy for the cost of a .22 rifle and find out how many .22 rounds you'd have to shoot to break even / save money on ammo. If you'r goal is to become very good with your high powered rifle, just buy extra ammo for it instead of buying another gun. Due to its limited range, the only things you can really practice on a .22 is zeroing your optic (which is as easy as turning knobs until your group hits where you want) and gun/trigger control. Problem with the .22 is you arent going to be learning your rifle and the ballistics table for it at different ranges and wind speeds. .22 is pretty much useless past 150 yards. For the .308 you need to figure out everything between that and 1000.

anhero
12-20-2010, 12:58 PM
Due to its limited range, the only things you can really practice on a .22 is zeroing your optic (which is as easy as turning knobs until your group hits where you want)

this doesn't really teach you anything. walking your shots is not precision shooting, it's not knowing how to adjust your sights.

as far as .22 only being good to zero and learning to trigger control, I would have to disagree. try shooting 50 100 150 and 200 yards and see if your point of aim and point of impact are spot on. to an extent, you can practice doping the wind with a 22 at longer distances. it's a lot cheaper learning on your 22 to get a basic understanding than it is on your 308 and you should also be able to create a comeup chart for practice.

also, learning to shoot small groups on a 22 is cheaper than learning to shoot it with a 308. you also don't develop bad habits like flinching or bucking while you're learning.

.22 is pretty much useless past 150 yards killing something, i'll agree, punching paper, i'd have to disagree. i've got a 300 yard target that says otherwise. the hold over was insane, but it's doable. you're just basically lobbing that thing over to the target.

there's a monthly rimfire competition on the rimfire section that you should check out. it gets pretty competitive and a good learning tool.

khw9mm
12-20-2010, 12:58 PM
Depends on how much you plan to shoot. Do some math and figure out how much .308 cartridges you can buy for the cost of a .22 rifle and find out how many .22 rounds you'd have to shoot to break even / save money on ammo. If you'r goal is to become very good with your high powered rifle, just buy extra ammo for it instead of buying another gun. Due to its limited range, the only things you can really practice on a .22 is zeroing your optic (which is as easy as turning knobs until your group hits where you want) and gun/trigger control. Problem with the .22 is you arent going to be learning your rifle and the ballistics table for it at different ranges and wind speeds. .22 is pretty much useless past 150 yards. For the .308 you need to figure out everything between that and 1000.

I would think otherwise. The basics marksmanship are all the same (trigger, control, breathing, body positioning, etc..) And the only way to learn is to go out and shoot. Having a .22 trainer that is cheap to shoot can only improve his .308 shooting as ballistics data would all be there in front of you anyway (after you gather your dope) so that wouldn't be an issue. And a .22 can get close to 200 and what he learns by making hits at that distance with a .22 will prove to be a valuable skill when taking his .308 to 1K. That's not to say he should leave his .308 and never shoot it again, he should shoot both.

As for zeroing the rifle, your rifles should be zero'd anyway. :rolleyes:

anhero
12-20-2010, 1:14 PM
^^ agree

Izzy43
12-20-2010, 1:31 PM
Lots of good posts here about the OP's issue. One more opinion couldn't hurt so here goes. First get a rifle that has the same basic mechanics as the .308. Doesn't really matter if its a Savage, Marlin, CZ, Winchester, Remington, etc. Get one that has as nearly the same feel, trigger and ergonomics of the other rifle. There are many .22 shooters that go far beyond 100yds. I know of one guy who shoots MOA at 600yds using a CZ .22lr with a 28" barrrel and the proper ammo and a receiver sight. So its not impossible under the right conditions to shoot long range with a .22. Sure the trajectory is like a rainbow but that does not matter as long as the shooter is practicing the mechanics that are necessary to achieve the desired accuracy.

The OP will recover the cost of the rifle in short order due to the decreased cost of .22 ammo and shoot many more rounds than possible with the .308. Doesn't work, sell the .22, lots of buyer out there. Endless possibilities with a .22 if one uses their imagination. I currently shoot MOA@ 100yds with a Williams receiver sight (peep), CZ rifle and Aquila Interceptor ammo and some day I'll be out to 300yds shooting MOA (thats the goal anyway). Just gotta practice.

send it_hit
12-20-2010, 7:34 PM
this is great info, thanks everyone. i'm definitely looking into the mkII since i am already using a savage, and like izzy said i want the mechanics to be the same.

forgive the noobness, how does one practice "doping the wind?"

usmcchet9296
12-20-2010, 7:42 PM
If money isnt that big of deal look into CZ rifles
Both Manners and McMillan are making tactical style stocks for CZ actions also the new Savage TR will be coming out with a synthetic stock. I wouldnt use a 10/22 if your goal is to shoot better with a bolt action. If you want tacticool fine but other than that I would go with Savage or CZ

CSACANNONEER
12-20-2010, 7:44 PM
how does one practice "doping the wind?"

First, learn how to shoot properly. Then, learning to read the wind will come SLOWLY. Reading and doping wind comes with experience that you'll only get with trigger time.

BTW, trigger time with a .22 is still trigger time. By all means, you should get at least one .22lr!

jyo
12-20-2010, 7:57 PM
Go with the 10-22---you will soon tire of the bolt-action---EVERYONE should have at least one 10-22---just do it, you'll thank me later.

G-forceJunkie
12-20-2010, 8:00 PM
1000 rds Fed. 175 match .308= $1750
1000 rds Wolf Match target= $100
Savage mark 2= $300
Savage TR= $425
CZ 455 = $450

Yes, a .22 will always save you money on trigger time. For a nice writeup about how a .22 parallels a .308 in training, check out: http://www.6mmbr.com/rimfiretactical.html

DirtNapKing
12-20-2010, 8:04 PM
I would go the .22 route for starters to get the basics down but don't waste your time or ammo beyond 75 yards.

BRANCHER
12-20-2010, 8:15 PM
I saw you are Hayward…
Come out to Diablo Rod and Gun matches (USI Concord).
For Offhand / Varmint (Bench) and great shooting practice come the first Saturday with a 22LR and shoot small bore silhouette (A must for every rifle shooter in my mind). The wind and varying distances will be a great learning tool. I started off the bench many years ago. Also we have every other month: Bench rest (I usually run this match). Almost everyone shoots 22lr as well as center fire. And staring this next year we have varmint hunters challenge (22lr) now first thing in the morning. We take the small-bore silhouette swingers and place them at 60 100 150 200. It takes a lot of practice and wind reading (especially at concord to shoot that well).

I would get a 22lr rifle with a scope with target knobs for the matches since you’ll be clicking for all the distances and wind. I have the same Leupold VX3LR 8.5x25 scopes on my 308 and 22LR for the same feel (and my bolt 223 as well). I only want to warn you. It is addicting. I don’t shoot as much as I used to but then again I have 2 little ones in diapers.

Feel free to PM me and we can chat about it.

See schedule. http://www.diablorodandgun.com/modules.php?name=Schedule. A lot of different matches.

If you do not yet have a 22lr there are a lot of nice choices. I think for a low-middle you cannot go wrong with a CZ (they are very accurate for the money). However there are so many nice bolt action 22lr rifles it is hard to decide. I have a Annie I just love and want to get another.

Or see what Chabot offers in the way of matches… (not sure of matches there however.)

And as a side note all the best shooters I know shoot a lot of 22lr. Trigger time is king!

Please note the Diablo Rod and gun website is not accurate for matches. Schedule for the entire year are done however they have not at this time been incororated into the website. I can email a PDF with them to you just PM me.

send it_hit
12-21-2010, 5:05 AM
Awesome thanks everyone, and Brancher you got a PM coming!