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Datamancer
12-19-2010, 2:24 PM
Hey guys, what's the process for acquiring approval and a tax stamp for a C&R Short Barreled Rifle? I have a cool idea for a milsurp mod and am researching to see if its worth the trouble. I know the stamp costs $200 but don't you need approval from your CLEO or need to file as a corporation or something? Anyone know what/where the proper tax forms are?
Anyone done this before and can lend some pointers or advice?

-~D~-

CSACANNONEER
12-19-2010, 2:29 PM
You can only get C&R SBRs in Ca without jumping through a lot more hoops.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-19-2010, 2:59 PM
Here's the big thread with the info you need...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693

If I recall correctly, the short version goes like this...

You need either CLEO approval or you need to be a corporation or trust. You won't get CLEO approval. Trust is easiest.

ATF is no longer allowing people to modify C&R firearms into SBS/SBR configuration. You need to find a C&R SBS/SBR that is already in circulation.

ke6guj
12-19-2010, 3:14 PM
ATF is no longer allowing people to modify C&R firearms into SBS/SBR configuration. You need to find a C&R SBS/SBR that is already in circulation.

thats what I've been told by a couple people.

In addition, the AW regs still apply, so if you are planning on having a semi-auto centerfire SBR, you still have to stay above 30", which makes having a cool C&R SBR pretty hard.

CmpsdNoMore
12-19-2010, 3:30 PM
ATF is no longer allowing people to modify C&R firearms into SBS/SBR configuration. You need to find a C&R SBS/SBR that is already in circulation.

Like a lot of things with the ATF, that makes no sense and is idiotic...

Mssr. Eleganté
12-19-2010, 3:34 PM
Like a lot of things with the ATF, that makes no sense and is idiotic...

I suspect they base this on the idea that when you cut down a firearm into a SBS/SBR you are "manufacturing" a "firearm" under the NFA. The newly manufactured firearm is no longer over 50 years old, so it loses its C&R status. That's just a guess though. :confused:

Datamancer
12-19-2010, 3:36 PM
Cool, thanks guys.

I want to do a variation on a Mosin Obrez, so I can avoid any semi-auto regulations. I wonder if I can throw the whole "professional artist/fabricator" angle at CLEO and see if that carries any weight.
But, if I have to use an existing one, I guess this might be a good opportunity to save a bubba and give it new life.
So, if I have to find a pre-chopped rifle to start with, does that mean I need to have a tax stamp and approval before I even buy it? I imagine this whole thing is gonna be a tough sell to any FFL.

-~D~-

Mssr. Eleganté
12-19-2010, 3:42 PM
Cool, thanks guys.

I want to do a variation on a Mosin Obrez, so I can avoid any semi-auto regulations. I wonder if I can throw the whole "professional artist/fabricator" angle at CLEO and see if that carries any weight.
But, if I have to use an existing one, I guess this might be a good opportunity to save a bubba and give it new life.
So, if I have to find a pre-chopped rifle to start with, does that mean I need to have a tax stamp and approval before I even buy it? I imagine this whole thing is gonna be a tough sell to any FFL.

-~D~-

Yeah, one problem with having to find an existing one is that you now have to have it transfered through an FFL with a Class 3 SOT. And you need the tax stamp before you buy it instead of getting the tax stamp just before you chop it yourself.

I'm not clear on how ATF is enforcing the new "already existing" rule. I could see them saying that the rifle would have to have been made an SBR over 50 years ago to qualify as C&R today. But again, this is just speculation on my part.

Datamancer
12-20-2010, 12:50 AM
Ugh. Hard to believe that there's this much red tape for what is essentially a single slice with a chop saw.

Maybe I'll build everything just shy of the final cut, then see what I can do about either getting an action with a previously shortened barrel, or seeing if I can get approval to chop it.

-~D~-

gunner336
12-20-2010, 2:29 AM
You forget that you also have to get a special weapon permit from Calif DOJ, that includes background check, storage location inspection and all that.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-20-2010, 7:00 AM
You forget that you also have to get a special weapon permit from Calif DOJ, that includes background check, storage location inspection and all that.

Not if the SBR or SBS is C&R. That's why he posted this in the C&R section. :)

Datamancer
12-20-2010, 1:52 PM
Hmm...maybe this is the excuse I needed to finally incorporate my sole proprietorship and then just do it under my business name.

-~D~-

Anchors
12-20-2010, 4:10 PM
Hey guys, what's the process for acquiring approval and a tax stamp for a C&R Short Barreled Rifle?

Prayer? Unless you can get the whole trust/corporation hooked up. But that will cost you serious $$$ for a Mosin.
I would just do it in Arizona if it were me and leave it there in storage.

Datamancer
12-24-2010, 1:20 PM
Prayer? Unless you can get the whole trust/corporation hooked up. But that will cost you serious $$$ for a Mosin.
I would just do it in Arizona if it were me and leave it there in storage.

I have a friend in Colorado and another in Kansas. I'll have to see what their laws are concerning these things and maybe I'll do exactly that....go down there, chop the thing, shoot some videos, then let them keep it as a gift.

-~D~-

CSACANNONEER
12-24-2010, 1:27 PM
Prayer? Unless you can get the whole trust/corporation hooked up. But that will cost you serious $$$ for a Mosin.
I would just do it in Arizona if it were me and leave it there in storage.

:confused::confused: Many people in more NFA friendly states use NFA trusts. Guess what, a trust and a NFA tax stamp will cost you the same in ANY state! Why are you suggesting that other states would be cheaper?

Mssr. Eleganté
12-24-2010, 6:10 PM
:confused::confused: Many people in more NFA friendly states use NFA trusts. Guess what, a trust and a NFA tax stamp will cost you the same in ANY state! Why are you suggesting that other states would be cheaper?

In most NFA friendly States your SBR doesn't need to be C&R like in California. He could just buy a $79 M91/30 and then cut it down once he got his ATF approval. There would be no need to worry that ATF or CalDOJ might not consider the firearm to be C&R anymore because of the modification. That would be cheaper and easier than looking for an already SBR'd Mosin-Nagant that had been SBR'd over 50 years ago.