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bumpo628
12-18-2010, 12:24 PM
I ran into somebody at the range that had reloaded berdan primed brass using shotshell primers. He said he just drilled out the shell to the right diameter and now he can reload the brass no problem.

First step would be to deprime. Is there an easy way to do this? I've seen the water method on youtube, but I don't want to spray water all over my garage. Next step would be the drilling, but it seems like it would be hard to do since the anvil is in the center and it's hard to drill a round surface. Obviously you would have to start very low on the powder due to the unknown primer to play it safe.

I am interested since I have a bunch of 7.62x54 brass and my brother in law has a huge stock of 8mm mauser. Boxer primed brass in either of these is a bit expensive, so I figured I would run it past the CG community for input.

Anybody else hear of this? I've searched but I can't find anything.

Stryfe76
12-18-2010, 12:48 PM
I use something similar to this for decapping http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=245983 and a Possum Hollow Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool to cut down the anvil http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=445053

Use a tiny drill bit to drill a centered flash hole then uniform with a Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer Tool http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=729748

I haven't gotten past that point yet so I'm interested to see what others have done as well. My plan is to get some locktite bearing sleeve retainer an put an annealed berdan primer back in upside down swage it with a primer pocket swager http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=447022 and ream it out with the primer pocket uniformer so I can use boxer primers. If that idea doesn't work out then my backup is to try the 209 shotgun shell primers. I'm planning to do this for 7.62x54r and 8x56r maybe some 8mm Mauser as well. There is also the swage a ball bearing into the primer pocket mouth to push some material into the pocket then uniform it with the primer pocket swager which may end up being the easiest route.

mif_slim
12-18-2010, 1:19 PM
I used a drill bit. Lol.

I use the shot shell primer for the "crimp" and take out the primer cup, I then seat lrp into the slot. Worked good so far, but I shoot light loads so I haven't tried full power yet.

Stryfe76
12-18-2010, 1:22 PM
So you use a gutted 209 primer to line the pocket and just seat a regular boxer primer?

You might be a genius!

Mac Attack
12-18-2010, 1:39 PM
Interesting way to reuse berdan primed brass. I am looking forward to a step by step instructional on how it is done.

bumpo628
12-18-2010, 4:21 PM
I used a drill bit. Lol.

I use the shot shell primer for the "crimp" and take out the primer cup, I then seat lrp into the slot. Worked good so far, but I shoot light loads so I haven't tried full power yet.

I just tried it. I was able to "deprime" the 209 primer using my 9mm die set. The primer insert and a little anvil pop out and it leaves you with the empty cup. It doesn't take much force to push the LRP into the cup, but it works.

You might be right about the light loads since it seems to be a little too easy to insert the LRP. I am going to try a few more later and take some measurements. I'll have to compare the cup to a regular primer pocket. Maybe the shotshell cup shrinks a bit when you install it into the brass casing...in any case it's time to start collecting my spent shotshell primers.

Nice idea! This is a huge improvement over the shotshell primer alone since it should work normally after the initial conversion. Plus it will be easier to deprime/prime for subsequent reloadings. Not to mention that LRPs are cheaper than 209s.

Stryfe76
12-18-2010, 4:26 PM
Here's a guide!

http://users.ameritech.net/mchandler/primer.html

Mac Attack
12-18-2010, 5:57 PM
Here's a guide!

http://users.ameritech.net/mchandler/primer.html

I've seen that tutorial before. I was thinking of doing this with GP11 brass as it is much cheaper than buying boxer primed 7.5 Swiss brass. I am just worried about drilling the primer hole. With the proper equipment I am sure it would be easy but difficult with hand tools.

bumpo628
12-18-2010, 6:44 PM
I've seen that tutorial before. I was thinking of doing this with GP11 brass as it is much cheaper than buying boxer primed 7.5 Swiss brass. I am just worried about drilling the primer hole. With the proper equipment I am sure it would be easy but difficult with hand tools.

Here's a guide that squashes the anvil instead of drilling it out. Plus it has another method for decapping about half way down the page. If you're concerned about drilling by hand, you could squash it flat then use a spring loaded punch to keep the drill bit from walking.

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/25275/t/Berdan-to-Boxer-Conversion-Method.html

Stryfe76
12-18-2010, 6:51 PM
Don't try smashing the anvil on Turkish 8mm mauser. I tried it with a 12ton shop press and I stopped cranking down when the A frame started groaning. It didn't budge much.

Mac Attack
12-18-2010, 7:17 PM
Thanks bumpo628! That is exactly what I was looking for. I figure I could buy 7.5 Swiss battlepacks for cheap then convert the brass.

gunboat
12-18-2010, 7:19 PM
Some of you may not be aware that there are several diameters of berdan primers, not just small and large.
For the .217 dia (most common) the "swaging" method described in the link seems to work ok .
For the larger dia such as 303br the shotshell method works well --
remove primer by your favorite method -
mash the anvil - support case inside as when decrimping.
The mashed anvil provides a flat surface for drilling and also closes off the flash holes for the swage method.
You cannot mash completely flat, there is too much material.
Drill out pocket to afew thou less than shotshell primer dia.
* Rear of case now need to be slightly counterbored to allow flange on primer to be flush*
Carcano cases and a few others use a .194 primer and are fairly easy to convert to .210 primers.
my ha-penny

Stryfe76
12-20-2010, 1:30 AM
Here's an idea for those slightly too large berdan pockets! Hart's "case saver"primer pocket swager

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=78062

I think I can rig something up like that with a cheap punch with the end ground to LRP diameter, the shank a few thou over the case's pocket diameter, and a bolt for the inner case support.

What do you guys think?

gunboat
12-20-2010, 7:23 AM
As near as I can tell the hart tool just puts sort of a crimp into the primer pocket. Might as well use the ball bearing method and save $50.
I can not see any real saving trying to convert any berdan brass to boxer if a boxer case is available. I don't even like to reprime with berdan when I have them.
However, there are some cases just not available so you do what you must. I have even gone so far as to drill out the case and replace primer pocket with a small machined insert. Lot of work but do-able.

bumpo628
12-20-2010, 10:21 AM
Here's an idea for those slightly too large berdan pockets! Hart's "case saver"primer pocket swager

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=78062

I think I can rig something up like that with a cheap punch with the end ground to LRP diameter, the shank a few thou over the case's pocket diameter, and a bolt for the inner case support.

What do you guys think?

I think you'll need to add a flash-hole pilot to keep it centered. The LRP diameter punch would not keep it in the center unless it was already very close. Maybe if you took a punch with an OD of say .225 (for the .217 berdan) and add a pilot pin it would work better. You could drill a hole into the end of the punch and press fit a guide pin for the flash-hole pilot.

I think this would work better than the ball bearing method since it would move more material into the pocket. A ball will only swage the top edge, but a punch would add a bit more material to hold the primer.

I just thought of something else. Maybe compressing the shotshell cup down to the right size is another way to do it. If you can figure out a way to form the cup a bit smaller before it is installed into the brass then it will hold the primer snugly.

As far as why I would like to convert the brass, it is basically because it is there. I don't mind the extra work since I enjoy tinkering and I can't bring myself to toss perfectly good brass when a little work will bring it back to life. There's a limit to how far I'll go, of course, but right now I just want to see if I can do it.

Stryfe76
12-20-2010, 10:53 AM
[QUOTE=bumpo628;5477471]I think you'll need to add a flash-hole pilot to keep it centered. The LRP diameter punch would not keep it in the center unless it was already very close. Maybe if you took a punch with an OD of say .225 (for the .217 berdan) and add a pilot pin it would work better. You could drill a hole into the end of the punch and press fit a guide pin for the flash-hole pilot.

I think this would work better than the ball bearing method since it would move more material into the pocket. A ball will only swage the top edge, but a punch would add a bit more material to hold the primer.

I just thought of something else. Maybe compressing the shotshell cup down to the right size is another way to do it. If you can figure out a way to form the cup a bit smaller before it is installed into the brass then it will hold the primer snugly.QUOTE]


That's starting to sound like a depriming pin and an expander ball using an arbor press to swage the mouth in.

Your shotshell primer cup idea gave me another idea for the larger berdan pockets. a short brass sleeve made from brass tubing or a bit cut off a .22lr case to sleeve the pocket then swage the mouth in to crimp it in and run it through an RCBS primer pocket swage to uniform it.

gunboat
12-20-2010, 5:00 PM
Reforming the shotshell cup --- It is the correct size for boxer primers now, why would you make it smaller ?
Sleeves -- this is an accepted way for the big old blackpowder cases - 1774 primer I think. the sleeve is made as suggested, a flanged cup and inserted from the inside.
The 22case idea may be worth persuing. OD is .224? ID is ?

Stryfe76
12-20-2010, 5:25 PM
Reforming the shotshell cup --- It is the correct size for boxer primers now, why would you make it smaller ?
Sleeves -- this is an accepted way for the big old blackpowder cases - 1774 primer I think. the sleeve is made as suggested, a flanged cup and inserted from the inside.
The 22case idea may be worth persuing. OD is .224? ID is ?

I think I have a few mixed in with my range brass.
I'll have to measure one when I get home.

gunboat
12-20-2010, 9:46 PM
If you have only simple tooling, that is a drill press, I think the shotshell primer may be best. I have done a couple of 8x57 (.217dia) just to see how it would work.
I used a small lathe but with proper tooling a drill press would suffice.
As I said before, remove primer, mash anvil, drill out case, and spotface rear face --
a piloted 5/16" dia spotface should do --
install shotshell primer and Bob's your Uncle --
I use an old lyman straightline capper/decapper for installing the shotshell primer.
I can not see how any method, hart or ball bearing will give proper support to the primer more than once or twice.
also you must seat primer to proper depth, berdans are not all equal in heighth.
my ha-penny

bumpo628
12-20-2010, 10:18 PM
Reforming the shotshell cup --- It is the correct size for boxer primers now, why would you make it smaller ?
Sleeves -- this is an accepted way for the big old blackpowder cases - 1774 primer I think. the sleeve is made as suggested, a flanged cup and inserted from the inside.
The 22case idea may be worth persuing. OD is .224? ID is ?


I measured the shotshell cup at about .2095 to .210, the large primer pocket on a .308 shell at .209, and a LRP at .210. I was able to push the LRP into the shotshell cup with my thumb, so it seems a bit too loose.

I was thinking that if you could make the shotshell inner diameter a little smaller then it would hold the primer with higher pressure loads.

gunboat
12-21-2010, 6:10 AM
you can push the primer in by hand because the cup is not installed in the case --

mif_slim
12-21-2010, 6:21 AM
I think I'll post how I do it with picture tutorial to help some of you guys out. Give me a few days.

bumpo628
12-21-2010, 8:25 AM
you can push the primer in by hand because the cup is not installed in the case --
I thought that might be the case. I guess you just need to drill the hole a bit under to compress the cup when it's installed.


I think I'll post how I do it with picture tutorial to help some of you guys out. Give me a few days.
Thanks!

mm52
01-02-2011, 7:45 AM
:cool2:I have been using 209 shot primers since 1968 in many cal. from 7.62x54 to 8x56, 8mm,308 and so on.Rimmed ones are the best to me but all will work. I started with low loads cast bullets then worked up to jacked ,never had a problem with midrange loads. I drill out the primers using a small dill bit, pop out the primer, then use a #B drill bit drill all the way through, then camphor the top with a bigger dill bit so the primer lays flat, and use a small socket the size of the rim of the primrer to set it with small hammer. If the holes losen up over time use a drift punch on the in side of case rim and tap with hammer it will tighten up. Even back in the 60s I hater to see brass go to wast. I have a cheep bench drill press less than $35 a set of rubber vice inserts . After doing it you can do 200 in a short time. Anneal the cases, use torch and water then full length resize , old brass cases get brittle.If you have a Lee collet die you can get up to 20 shot from case till you have to full length resize again . Cheep shootng with a little work!