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Caribouriver
12-12-2010, 1:06 PM
Please tell me if I have this right. If you have a C&R 03FFL in CA, you may:

1. Have C&R (at least 50 years) old long guns shipped directly to your door from either a private party or a dealer, in state or out.
2. Purchase a C&R handgun out of state, take it home and have 5 days to send the DOJ registration paperwork and a fee. No 01FFL, DROS or waiting period.
3. Intrastate PPT purchases of a C&R hand gun still require going through a 01FFL, DROS, transfer fees, waiting period and possibly sales tax. A COE would eliminate the waiting period.
4. Receive out of state shipments of handgun ammo to your door (as you are allowed now) after the implementation of AB962 on Feb. 1, 2011.
5. If the above is true, would purchasing ammo on behalf of someone else who has an HSC, no C&R 03FFL and is not restricted from owning firearms, be considered an illegal "straw purchase"?

Thanks for the clarification

goober
12-12-2010, 1:10 PM
Please tell me if I have this right. If you have a C&R 03FFL in CA, you may:

1. Have C&R (at least 50 years) old long guns shipped directly to your door from either a private party or a dealer, in state or out.
2. Purchase a C&R handgun out of state, take it home and have 5 days to send the DOJ registration paperwork and a fee. No 01FFL, DROS or waiting period.
3. Intrastate PPT purchases of a C&R hand gun still require going through a 01FFL, DROS, transfer fees, waiting period and possibly sales tax. A COE would eliminate the waiting period.
4. Receive out of state shipments of handgun ammo to your door (as you are allowed now) after the implementation of AB962 on Feb. 1, 2011.
5. If the above is true, would purchasing ammo on behalf of someone else who has an HSC, no C&R 03FFL and is not restricted from owning firearms, be considered an illegal "straw purchase"?

Thanks for the clarification

Yes but #4 requires a COE. Just an 03FFL is not enough.
And no to #5.

hk91666
12-12-2010, 2:17 PM
Yes but #4 requires a COE. Just an 03FFL is not enough.
And no to #5.

Please clarify your answer in #5 in AB962 it says something to the effect that you cannot give, sell, or transfer 50 rounds to another individual. Does having the COE exempt us from that?:confused:

Mssr. Eleganté
12-12-2010, 2:30 PM
...in AB962 it says something to the effect that you cannot give, sell, or transfer 50 rounds to another individual...

You are probably reading an older version of the bill. The final version of AB962 didn't have that 50 round transfer limit.

hk91666
12-12-2010, 2:51 PM
You are probably reading an older version of the bill. The final version of AB962 didn't have that 50 round transfer limit.


Thanks i was worried about reloading for my friends and what that might mean.

Flyin Brian
12-12-2010, 3:24 PM
Please tell me if I have this right. If you have a C&R 03FFL in CA, you may:

1. Have C&R (at least 50 years) old long guns shipped directly to your door from either a private party or a dealer, in state or out.


As I just learned the hard way last week, you cannot have C&R long guns shipped directly to you when purchased from a dealer in Ca. even if you have a 03FFL.

ke6guj
12-12-2010, 5:18 PM
Thanks i was worried about reloading for my friends and what that might mean.

you can't legally reload for friends without having either an 06FFL or 07FFL, since you would be manufacturing ammo for others.

Now, if you friends want to come over and use your equipment to make their own ammo, that is ok.

goober
12-12-2010, 5:25 PM
Thanks i was worried about reloading for my friends and what that might mean.

you can't legally reload for friends without having either an 06FFL or 07FFL, since you would be manufacturing ammo for others.

Now, if you friends want to come over and use your equipment to make their own ammo, that is ok.

Jack's right, what you just described falls under a whole different PC than question #5 in the OP.

dangerranger
12-13-2010, 12:39 PM
As I just learned the hard way last week, you cannot have C&R long guns shipped directly to you when purchased from a dealer in Ca. even if you have a 03FFL.


Is this something new? whats differant about Ca dealer to a CA,C&R tranfer ? please explain. thanks DR

hk91666
12-13-2010, 1:49 PM
you can't legally reload for friends without having either an 06FFL or 07FFL, since you would be manufacturing ammo for others.

Now, if you friends want to come over and use your equipment to make their own ammo, that is ok.


Got thanks another mine to avoid.

hk91666
12-13-2010, 1:50 PM
Is this something new? whats differant about Ca dealer to a CA,C&R tranfer ? please explain. thanks DR

01 ffl will not sell to 03's without dros and etc..........One I know for sure is in vacaville I ask the owner and was refused for C&R longun.

hk91666
12-13-2010, 1:51 PM
Jack's right, what you just described falls under a whole different PC than question #5 in the OP.

Cheers

Markus
12-13-2010, 7:33 PM
C&r with Coe you can get c&r rifles from 01 ffls when you pay for it. That is if the 01 ffl will let you but I would ask first. Either way you have to pay dros from 01 ffl no way around it. However when ordering online from put of state it can be shipped straight to you.

IEShooter
12-13-2010, 8:05 PM
C&r with Coe you can get c&r rifles from 01 ffls when you pay for it. That is if the 01 ffl will let you but I would ask first. Either way you have to pay dros from 01 ffl no way around it. However when ordering online from put of state it can be shipped straight to you.

How about in state transfers of C&R eligible rifles? Can we just do a face to face transfer or do we have to go through an 01 FFL?

Anchors
12-13-2010, 8:15 PM
Yes but #4 requires a COE. Just an 03FFL is not enough.
And no to #5.

A straw purchase usually involves an individual who is not legally eligible to own firearms.

Jack's right, what you just described falls under a whole different PC than question #5 in the OP.

A PC so different that it isn't PC.
I believe that is covered in USC (United States Code).

Cokebottle
12-13-2010, 8:18 PM
How about in state transfers of C&R eligible rifles? Can we just do a face to face transfer or do we have to go through an 01 FFL?
ANYONE can do a face to face transfer of a 50y/o+long gun. If anything, having the 03FFL is more of a burden because you have to get ID from the other party and log everything into your bound book... where Joe Schmoe can just meet Harry Huevos in the WalMart parking lot, exchange a few bills, and say "Thank's for the gun".

Legally, you are to honestly believe that the recipient is not a prohibited person, but without the ability to do any kind of background check, all you have to go by is their word.

The main advantage of the 03FFL by itself is the ability to more freely purchase from out of state, either by shipment to your home (for long guns), or personal importation of both long guns and handguns.

Adding the COE adds a couple more benefits, specifically no 10 day wait for C&R (anything), and elimination of the 1-every-30 day limitation for dealer purchased handguns.

IEShooter
12-13-2010, 8:51 PM
ANYONE can do a face to face transfer of a 50y/o+long gun. If anything, having the 03FFL is more of a burden because you have to get ID from the other party and log everything into your bound book... where Joe Schmoe can just meet Harry Huevos in the WalMart parking lot, exchange a few bills, and say "Thank's for the gun".

Legally, you are to honestly believe that the recipient is not a prohibited person, but without the ability to do any kind of background check, all you have to go by is their word.

The main advantage of the 03FFL by itself is the ability to more freely purchase from out of state, either by shipment to your home (for long guns), or personal importation of both long guns and handguns.

Adding the COE adds a couple more benefits, specifically no 10 day wait for C&R (anything), and elimination of the 1-every-30 day limitation for dealer purchased handguns.

Thanks. Specifically, I'm looking at a Russian SKS that is date stamped from 1954. Any issues with this particular rifle not perhaps being C&R eligible? The seller is not very knowledgeable about firearms transfers, and doesn't want to break any laws or sell the gun to an ineligible person.

Regards,

John

cruddymutt
12-13-2010, 9:05 PM
A 1954 SKS can be shipped to a California C&R holder if.......
Its from out of state (private party or dealer)
Its in california (private party)
I dont think a California dealer (FFL01) can ship directly to a California C&R holder. Would probably have to go FFL01 to FFL01 but Im not sure on that one, never done it.
Now a non C&R can cash and carry a 1954 SKS as long as its a FTF exchange through a private party. You and I can meet and you can buy my 1952 Tula and take it home that day regardless if either one of us has a C&R (my SKS isnt for sale, its just an example).

goober
12-13-2010, 9:27 PM
A PC so different that it isn't PC.
I believe that is covered in USC (United States Code).

yup. my mistake, thanks :)

IEShooter
12-13-2010, 9:43 PM
A 1954 SKS can be shipped to a California C&R holder if.......
Its from out of state (private party or dealer)
Its in california (private party)
I dont think a California dealer (FFL01) can ship directly to a California C&R holder. Would probably have to go FFL01 to FFL01 but Im not sure on that one, never done it.
Now a non C&R can cash and carry a 1954 SKS as long as its a FTF exchange through a private party. You and I can meet and you can buy my 1952 Tula and take it home that day regardless if either one of us has a C&R (my SKS isnt for sale, its just an example).

It would have been a local sell from a fellow Calgunner. False alarm though. His dad refuses to do a private party sell that doesn't go through an 01 FFL.

There are few enough exemptions to the ridiculous 10 day wait that Cali imposes on us. No way I'm going to needlessly go through that.

cruddymutt
12-13-2010, 9:50 PM
Yup FTF it would have been cash and carry then. My SKS is what got me to finally get a C&R.

Cokebottle
12-13-2010, 10:48 PM
It would have been a local sell from a fellow Calgunner. False alarm though. His dad refuses to do a private party sell that doesn't go through an 01 FFL.
That's his prerogative. It's a waste of $35, but it's for his peace of mind that the gun isn't going to a prohibited person.

Perhaps he would be willing to cash and carry if you had an 03, perhaps not.

Anchors
12-13-2010, 11:28 PM
yup. my mistake, thanks :)

No worries man :]
Just making sure someone doesn't think that it is cool out of state or something.

It would have been a local sell from a fellow Calgunner. False alarm though. His dad refuses to do a private party sell that doesn't go through an 01 FFL.

There are few enough exemptions to the ridiculous 10 day wait that Cali imposes on us. No way I'm going to needlessly go through that.

Ah, bummer. As previously stated though, that is his deal.
You could always direct him here to put him at ease, but in the end might be easier to just find another.

dangerranger
12-14-2010, 12:30 AM
I havent found anything preventing an CA 01FFL from shipping directly to a CA 03FFL. Your dealer may not want to or doesnt know he can. but I cant find anything legaly preventing it. thats one of the reasons I got the C&R. DR

ke6guj
12-14-2010, 12:40 AM
AFAIK, the way it works is that the 01FFL must do a DROS (fingerprint, DL swipe, etc) and do a 10-day wait on all firearm transfers, unless there is an exemption to any of the above. There is no exemption to the DROS for 03FFLs (even if you have an 03 + COE, you must still DROS, just don't have to do the 10-day wait). SInce you have to DROS and submit a fingerprint, you have to do it in person (I doubt you can just mail them a copy of your fingerprint). So, unless you can find an exemption to the DROS requirement from an 01 to an 03, you can't get a firearm shipped from an CA 01FFL to a CA 03FFL.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-14-2010, 6:54 AM
I havent found anything preventing an CA 01FFL from shipping directly to a CA 03FFL. Your dealer may not want to or doesnt know he can. but I cant find anything legaly preventing it. thats one of the reasons I got the C&R. DR

The stuff that legally prevents a California "dealer" from shipping to a California 03 FFL is all in Penal Code Section 12077. Like ke6guj says, it's the requirements to swipe your DL, get your thumbprint and verify your physical description that prevent it.

morrcarr67
12-14-2010, 7:17 AM
That's why I have 2 C&R licenses. One here and one in Nevada. What ever can't be shipped to CA will be shipped to Nevada. No more dealing with an 01 for anything C&R.

cruddymutt
12-14-2010, 6:26 PM
That's why I have 2 C&R licenses. One here and one in Nevada. What ever can't be shipped to CA will be shipped to Nevada. No more dealing with an 01 for anything C&R.

Thats how you do it!! Im still debating on whether or not I trust my friend in Las Vegas.

morrcarr67
12-14-2010, 6:42 PM
Thats how you do it!! Im still debating on whether or not I trust my friend in Las Vegas.

Hopefully it will. I have a bunch of things lined up for my new license. Now to make the money. :43:

OHOD
12-15-2010, 9:35 AM
Please tell me if I have this right. If you have a C&R 03FFL in CA, you may:

1. Have C&R (at least 50 years) old long guns shipped directly to your door from either a private party or a dealer, in state or out.
2. Purchase a C&R handgun out of state, take it home and have 5 days to send the DOJ registration paperwork and a fee. No 01FFL, DROS or waiting period.
3. Intrastate PPT purchases of a C&R hand gun still require going through a 01FFL, DROS, transfer fees, waiting period and possibly sales tax. A COE would eliminate the waiting period.
4. Receive out of state shipments of handgun ammo to your door (as you are allowed now) after the implementation of AB962 on Feb. 1, 2011.
5. If the above is true, would purchasing ammo on behalf of someone else who has an HSC, no C&R 03FFL and is not restricted from owning firearms, be considered an illegal "straw purchase"?

Thanks for the clarification

I like this short and clear list of C&R benefits and questions. I've added this to my subscription list.

finloq
12-15-2010, 1:51 PM
01 ffl will not sell to 03's without dros and etc..........One I know for sure is in vacaville I ask the owner and was refused for C&R longun.

Please correct me, if I am scurting the law.
I have a Pawn Shop by my home that will. They have my C&R on file, so if I find anything that I like, it is just: negotiate, pay, walk.

Cokebottle
12-15-2010, 6:30 PM
Please correct me, if I am scurting the law.
I have a Pawn Shop by my home that will. They have my C&R on file, so if I find anything that I like, it is just: negotiate, pay, walk.
Not legal unless you also have a COE.

The 10 day wait applies to all dealer sales except for C&R purchases where the purchaser has both an 03FFL and a COE.
The DROS and background check are still executed, but you do get to take the gun home immediately. If there's a problem with the background check, expect a phone call from the dealer.

finloq
12-15-2010, 7:01 PM
Not legal unless you also have a COE.

The 10 day wait applies to all dealer sales except for C&R purchases where the purchaser has both an 03FFL and a COE.
The DROS and background check are still executed, but you do get to take the gun home immediately. If there's a problem with the background check, expect a phone call from the dealer.

I should have made it clear, I was refering to long gun purchases.

ke6guj
12-15-2010, 7:16 PM
I should have made it clear, I was refering to long gun purchases.

doesn't matter. In order to cash-and-carry a C&R long gun over 50-years old from an dealer in CA, you must have a C&R and a COE.

Cokebottle
12-15-2010, 7:21 PM
doesn't matter. In order to cash-and-carry a C&R long gun over 50-years old from an dealer in CA, you must have a C&R and a COE.
+1

The only thing I can think of that might be an exception would be consignments processed as PPT, but I'm not sure how that would work with a pawn shop involved.

finloq
12-15-2010, 7:23 PM
Or:
"Any california resident (excluding 01 FFL dealers if the long gun in question is part of his dealer inventory) can transfer a 50+ year old long gun to another california resident without any paperwork, background check, DROS, etc."
Perhaps the pawn shop owner is fiddling with his records.

Cokebottle
12-15-2010, 7:48 PM
Or:
"Any california resident (excluding 01 FFL dealers if the long gun in question is part of his dealer inventory) can transfer a 50+ year old long gun to another california resident without any paperwork, background check, DROS, etc."
Perhaps the pawn shop owner is fiddling with his records.
Which would be illegal, so the original reply stands.