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View Full Version : A New CA law that requires registering homemade AR-15’S


VaderSpade
12-07-2010, 8:06 PM
According to Bastiani Arms of Redding CA.

Back story; Bastiani Arms are the new guys in town. I checked them out a few months ago, nice clean place, nice reloading supplies. They had black rifle accessories and a couple uppers, but no lowers. When I ask about that they said that they would rather not take any chances, but believed they were legal. O.K. I can respect that as long as they are not spreading FUD.

Recently they have been advertising a lot on the radio, and saying they are now your black rifle headquarters, so I just had to go back and check them out again. I went in today and sure enough they had a very nice selection of lowers, both .223 and .308. They also had several very colorful lowers, red, blue, purple, and other colors.

I got excited and started telling the nice guy behind the counter about making my own lowers in bright colors. He seemed very interested and knowledgeable; he knew about 80% lowers and calguns. We had a nice talk; I picked up a battle pack of .308 shells and headed out.

I got my other errands taken care of grabbed a few of my homemade lowers and went back for a little show and tell.

When I got back I spotted the guy I was talking to earlier and went to show him my babies. He called another guy over and said this is the guy I was telling you about. They both admired my work and said they would like to build a couple themselves.

This all caught the attention of either the owner or at least someone higher up the food chain. This guy came over picked up a green lower looked over my markings and said “so you have a manufactures license?” I said no that I didn’t need one for my personal builds. "O yes you do" he said. When I assured him I didn’t he put the lower down as if it were on fire. His mouth was open and he was pointing toward the door. I was sure I was about to get booted out when the nice guy I was talking to came to my aid telling this higher up that I was right.

This settled him down for a second, but then he said “did the ATF O.K. your serial numbers?” Don’t even need serial numbers I told him. “O yes you do” he spouted. Again the nice guy came to my aid, but I could tell the older guys patience was wearing thin, and he said "you absolutely have to register these” “it’s a new California law.” “It just came out”. I was worried that the poor guy that was trying to help me may be in over his head trying to argue with this guy that I figured was his boss, so I gathered my things and headed out.

So how about it is there a new law I haven’t heard of???

If not how does a guy fight this FUD???

Diesel-Gunner
12-07-2010, 8:11 PM
Tagged

BOFH
12-07-2010, 8:21 PM
Fight the FUD with your $...don't give 'em any.

L4D
12-07-2010, 8:23 PM
How do register something with no serial?

nicoroshi
12-07-2010, 9:42 PM
Perhaps offer up a copy of this>>>
http://www.savvysurvivor.com/law_research_on_home_built_firea.htm

with this part highlighted:

Is a serial number required? ORS 166.450 Obliteration or change of identification number on firearms. Gives us the detail on this. "Any person who intentionally alters, removes, or obliterates the identification number of any firearm for an unlawful purpose, shall be punished upon conviction by imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for not more than five year. Possession of any such firearm is presumptive evidence that the possessor has altered, removed or obliterated the identification number." This statute specifically deals with pre-existing serial numbers on a firearm. It does not deal with the absence of a serial number in the first place. Thus, possession of a firearm without a serial number is not a crime if the firearm did not have a serial number in the first place. It is a crime, however, for licensed manufacturers to sell such guns without serial numbers (federal law eg GCA 1968).

And this part:

What is omitted in ORS 166.410 is any reference to ORS 166.412. The reason for this is that the manufacture of your own firearm is a private activity and falls under the same protections of a private firearms acquisition and thus not regulated by the section entitled 166.412 Definitions; firearms transaction record; criminal record check. Thus you are under no obligation to disclose the number or type of firearms you have manufactured for personal use, their location or disposition or even maintain records of the dates or places of manufacture provided you neither sell nor give the guns to another person.

Heck Vader.....Just highlight the whole thing.
Then ask for a penal code for this alleged new law. Being a gun store owner he should know it.

Dead*Reckoned
12-07-2010, 9:48 PM
Sounds like he was caught in a lie, and ended up digging himself deeper. "Did the atf approve your serial numbers?"
What a joke.

Eroland7
12-07-2010, 9:50 PM
:fud:

Sydwaiz
12-07-2010, 10:07 PM
I'd facepalm and walk out.

SJgunguy24
12-07-2010, 10:22 PM
I went through some crap like that myself at a shop. I asked the guy to show me the law, "Lets pull up the DOJ website and you can show me what your talking about" is what I said.

"Well I don't really know."

"Then keep your mouth shut if you don't know the fricken law. Quit lying to your customers and just be honest"


"Sir, you need to leave"

That's how my experiance went.

NeoWeird
12-08-2010, 12:31 AM
Why not just take him to the source and shut him down straight out?

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly

California itself does not regulate home built firearms. The ONLY home built firearms it regulates are registered firearms which require a unique serial number for the purpose of identification.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/50bmgfaqs.php#27

In that FAQ's question they specifically awknoledge the legitimacy of home built firearms in California (at least at the time of .50 BMG registrations) and only states that they be serialized in order to be registered (.50 BMGs that is). Anything else that doesn't have to be registered doesn't need to be registered and therefore doesn't need the unique serial.

You've now shown him (or anyone) that it's legal on a federal and state level. Let them try to argue beyond that. Obviously things can change, but if they can't even produce any type of bill number, commity name, etc that was responsible for a change than they are most likely talking out their rear and you shouldn't even waste your time with them.

In all honesty, morals and principles aside, do you really want someone who doesn't understand basic firearms laws handling something as critical as a firearms transfer for you? Ask yourself if you really want to take that gamble.

bigbob76
12-08-2010, 3:38 AM
Life is too short to spend any of it in an argument. I would rather drive a few more miles and deal with like minded people. I do a lot of PPTs it seems like and I know it burns up a lot of employee time so I make sure I spend money there. I see a lot of guys going to FFLs just to window shop and then go buy stuff online. I understand wanting the best price but if we don't support the brick and mortar stores they disappear.

VaderSpade
12-08-2010, 7:32 AM
NeoWeird

Good links thanks.

It is a nice shop with good prices. I want them to be successful we need more options in town.

I wish the older guy was in on our earlier conversation where I explained how I had so many guys asking where they could get a Black Rifle, and how since I couldn’t make them for sale it was good to see this shop with such a good stock. I told him I would be sending lots of business their way.

Instead the guy sees someone that’s building his own and not buying from him.

LexLuther
12-08-2010, 8:09 AM
Vader
You know all the guys in that shop came from Fud World Headquarters over on Cypress right?

VaderSpade
12-08-2010, 8:39 AM
Vader
You know all the guys in that shop came from Fud World Headquarters over on Cypress right?

I did not know that, but the fact that they bailed out and started a new shop should be a good thing? I hope that get their chit together. We need a good gun store in town. I quit dealing over at Jones Fort long ago.

Old West is O.K. but I walked out the last three times I went there after waiting at the register for over 20 minutes. A couple of time I was waiting in line at the register as they checked out someone else, and then walked away knowing full well I was standing there. Last time I waited 20 minutes while the counter guy talked to a customer about military retirement. I could tell the customer could care less, and kept saying I never heard of that. The counter guy just kept going on and on, and then walked away after checking that guy out.
Those guys know me they always say hi when I come in they know I spend good money, but it seems like they hide from any work.

Korben Dallas
12-08-2010, 9:21 AM
Thats BS.. :eek:

bollero
12-08-2010, 9:25 AM
thought u can build as many as u want..for personal use..

redcliff
12-08-2010, 9:42 AM
Vader
You know all the guys in that shop came from Fud World Headquarters over on Cypress right?

I was quite surprised that store was selling off-list lowers the last time I went in, I've debated the legality of OLL's with the owners for the last 3 years and in the past provided the flow chart and Sacramento PD memo.

Nice Shot is also doing some black rifle stuff now; but last I heard the manager was convinced Calguns was wrong and only a Prince 50 was legal.. no bullet buttons.

Edit to add: Sorry didn't realize this was dupe posted by the OP, it's also in the Rifles forum section: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=370820

pullnshoot25
12-08-2010, 10:20 AM
Start carrying a recorder around and get evidence so it can be posted up and we can get a laugh. I sure do wish I had my recorder running when the village idiot at Turner's Kearney Mesa decided to open his trap about the law.

KALIDAWG8996
12-08-2010, 2:01 PM
Is it me, or are gun shops just the hangout to spread FUD at??? I'd be on C.G. all day if I was an owner!:) No better way to advertise and mingle with the customers at the same time!

I'd probably change the title of the thread along the lines of FUD!! so people don't freakout over the "new law" lol

247Nino
12-08-2010, 2:23 PM
Is it me, or are gun shops just the hangout to spread FUD at??? I'd be on C.G. all day if I was an owner!:) No better way to advertise and mingle with the customers at the same time!

I'd probably change the title of the thread along the lines of FUD!! so people don't freakout over the "new law" lol

It seems like that doesn't it? Except for Valkyrie Arms of course...

oldyeller
12-08-2010, 2:30 PM
My local gun shop says DOJ is just waiting for Kamila Harris to take office so they can "fix" the whole bullet button thing. The shop won't touch OLLs.

freonr22
12-08-2010, 2:32 PM
This should be merged with your same thread on the Centerfire section or vice versa.
I think its deleted

btw, I did send them this message

It sounds like they are nice guys, Educate.

quote;/just a thought.

you were respected for your friendliness, and nice attitude in general
Please consider this thread regarding your fine establishment

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=370815

JagerTroop
12-09-2010, 10:43 AM
..."you absolutely have to register these” “it’s a new California law.” “It just came out”...

LMFAO!!!

It just came out?! :rofl2: Law isn't the latest big-budget action movie, or a newly redesigned sportscar.

weezil_boi
12-09-2010, 10:38 PM
....So how about it is there a new law I haven’t heard of??? ....

Yes, It was passed along with the no unicorn hunting bill :)

ls1
12-10-2010, 7:58 AM
Yes, It was passed along with the no unicorn hunting bill :)

Hahahahaha I guess i'm in trouble.

xXBigJoeXx
12-10-2010, 8:28 AM
Yes, It was passed along with the no unicorn hunting bill :)

This ^^^^ :rofl: :laugh:

Roccobro
12-10-2010, 9:14 AM
And here I was waiting for the ball to drop to see the for reals "new" gun laws go into effect.

Arguing with an idiot is like running in the special Olympics....

Justin

KALIDAWG8996
12-10-2010, 11:04 AM
It seems like that doesn't it? Except for Valkyrie Arms of course...

But of course! No bias here....:D