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View Full Version : Off-list MP5 copycat.


Mr. Ed
07-10-2006, 5:11 PM
Has anyone made any off-list MP5's? Vulcan Arms has something called a V94 that looks awesome. I would like to get it, but don't know if it can be made to PRK-legal.

Can it be done? If so, how?

I know many people don't like Vulcan's, but my concern is whether or not it can be made CA legal.

Any help is appreciated.

grammaton76
07-10-2006, 5:13 PM
Bobcat Weapons BW-5. Expect to spend $1500 at a bare minimum for it at Bright Spot Pawn in Riverside, but they do stock them when they can.

leelaw
07-10-2006, 5:30 PM
Has anyone made any off-list MP5's? Vulcan Arms has something called a V94 that looks awesome. I would like to get it, but don't know if it can be made to PRK-legal.

Can it be done? If so, how?

I know many people don't like Vulcan's, but my concern is whether or not it can be made CA legal.

Any help is appreciated.

Don't buy the Vulcan because it isn't made to spec - no roller locking, it is simply a blow-back operation. Crap on a stick, and low quality.. but I'm sure you knew that already, since it's a Hess Mess/Vulcan

xenophobe
07-10-2006, 6:34 PM
It's not off-list. *grumble*

It's unlisted. OFF-LIST specifically refers to AK and AR series. This is really getting me annoyed.

Mr. Ed
07-10-2006, 8:27 PM
Sorry to annoy. Thanks for the info on the unlisted MP5's. Another question...how do you load the bobcat bw5?

Mr. Ed
07-10-2006, 8:48 PM
I was just re-reading some of the posts and could not figure out what roller locking is...and why it's important. Can somebody explain please.

MaxQ
07-10-2006, 9:03 PM
Some technical details of the roller locking system:

http://www.hkpro.com/technical.htm

crzpete
07-10-2006, 9:10 PM
Bobcat Weapons BW-5. Expect to spend $1500 at a bare minimum for it at Bright Spot Pawn in Riverside, but they do stock them when they can.

Yeah! That guy Chris at Bright Spot is a very cool dude. I got my last 2 lowers from him and he is very knowledgeable. Only good experience from him

rorschach
07-11-2006, 12:57 AM
Vector makes an MP5 clone in .40, their website says 9mm coming soon. I would love to get a Vector V-51 or V-53 with the fake sound suppressor.

http://www.vectorarms.com

6172crew
07-11-2006, 6:10 AM
I posted some pics here of one not to long ago. The bobcats have no evil features cept' the pistol grip. Just hack off the grip and load normal.

stator
07-11-2006, 6:10 PM
It's not off-list. *grumble*

It's unlisted. OFF-LIST specifically refers to AK and AR series. This is really getting me annoyed.

From a symantec perspective, Mr. Ed is correct in referring to it as a off-list because it is opposite as on-list, which of course, we know the firearm he states is not.

You are referring to your perferred use of off-list as slang. Well, slang is basically anything goes, all rules are off. I would not recommend getting annoyed in that case.

BTW, when do I start to get the standard discount at TGE. Or, how many pistol purchase must one have there for the discount? I am guessing more than one HK at this point.

6172crew
07-11-2006, 6:45 PM
Here are a couple of pics.:)
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=36129&highlight=bobcat

xenophobe
07-11-2006, 7:05 PM
From a symantec perspective, Mr. Ed is correct in referring to it as a off-list because it is opposite as on-list, which of course, we know the firearm he states is not.

You are referring to your perferred use of off-list as slang. Well, slang is basically anything goes, all rules are off. I would not recommend getting annoyed in that case.

I know this is arguing semantics... off-list is a new term that refers specifically to AR and AK series firearms. Roberti-Roos firearms aren't 'listed' they were named. Series firearms are 'listed'. Category 1 named firearms must face a court add-on motion. Category 2 or 'series' weapons are listed by make and model, but are the same general 'type' of weapon, and can be appended without court ruling.

So technically, anything other than an AR or AK is not 'off-list', because there is no list that can be appended to by the AG. Individual firearms that are not AR or AK series rifles need to be seperately addressed by the Court and are not automatically banned and can be appealed. AR and AK series, once 'listed' cannot be argued or appealed and are automatically banned.

So, at least to me, there is quite a difference between unnamed firearms and 'off-list' receivers.

Also: Between Jan-1 1990 and the arbitrary date Kasler told the DOJ to list, firearms that were not on the Roberti-Roos ban weren't called "off-list". They were just legal because they were not specifically named.

And, calling it an "off-list MP5" would mean that there is an MP5 series, or MP5 that is banned by name. The MP5 has never been banned by name, and is not a series weapon. If you could find a semi-auto HK marked MP5, it would be California legal if it didn't fall under 12276.1 definition. It can't be an "off-list" MP5 because there is no "on-list" or listed MP5.

BTW, when do I start to get the standard discount at TGE. Or, how many pistol purchase must one have there for the discount? I am guessing more than one HK at this point.

There is no standard discount at TGE. You need to negotiate. Or bring in a local competitors price. Kinda like a flea market. Cold hard cash speaks volumes.

rorschach
07-11-2006, 7:43 PM
On arf a while back I read about someone who was selling either an M16 or a Commando, that had been modified to semi-auto only, and was removed from the NFA registry. I'm guessing these receivers would be legal in California too, as M-16 and Colt Commando arent on the list. Neither is M4 for that matter.

By the same token, who would want to weld up a perfectly good sear pin hole, just to make a weapon semi-auto only?

6172crew
07-11-2006, 8:15 PM
On arf a while back I read about someone who was selling either an M16 or a Commando, that had been modified to semi-auto only, and was removed from the NFA registry. I'm guessing these receivers would be legal in California too, as M-16 and Colt Commando arent on the list. Neither is M4 for that matter.

By the same token, who would want to weld up a perfectly good sear pin hole, just to make a weapon semi-auto only?

I think they drill out the sear hole, at least that is how the LASD does the
SP1s that I saw in the safe room...what a bunch of junk those guys have to use. Im sure the deputies would spring for teh cost of a nice rifle if the Capt would sign off on it.

Pablo
07-11-2006, 10:24 PM
On arf a while back I read about someone who was selling either an M16 or a Commando, that had been modified to semi-auto only, and was removed from the NFA registry. I'm guessing these receivers would be legal in California too, as M-16 and Colt Commando arent on the list. Neither is M4 for that matter.

By the same token, who would want to weld up a perfectly good sear pin hole, just to make a weapon semi-auto only?

I don't think that's possible... The law is very clear about the subject. Once a machine gun is always a machine gun so you can't remove it out of the NFA registry.

xenophobe
07-11-2006, 10:26 PM
I don't think that's possible... The law is very clear about the subject. Once a machine gun is always a machine gun so you can't remove it out of the NFA registry.

+1

Unless it was done pre-GCA68... even then not likely...

There are some Colt Commando SBRs that were removed from the registry to sell as non-NFA, but they were never machine guns...

BrianK_73
07-22-2006, 8:18 AM
Has anyone made any off-list MP5's? Vulcan Arms has something called a V94 that looks awesome. I would like to get it, but don't know if it can be made to PRK-legal.

Can it be done? If so, how?

I know many people don't like Vulcan's, but my concern is whether or not it can be made CA legal.

Any help is appreciated.

I've had very good luck with Special Weapons guns. I had a SW9 that I later sold to a friend and now I have an SW45 (.45 caliber version) that I am selling. Both have performed very well for me. Pictures of my SW45 are Here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=366389

Although there are claims to the contrary, Bobcat and Special Weapons seem to be the same company. I don't hear anything good about either one (just like Vulcan) but I haven't seen anything bad with my own two eyes.

I don't think I'm unique when it comes to the fact that I've had two guns from Special Weapons that run either. I think that people that have had good experiences just aren't as vocal as those who've had bad experiences. Just my opinion though.