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XDRoX
12-05-2010, 6:48 PM
Another thread got me wondering about how grip angles differed form one pistol to the next. I took the most common guns out of my safe and did an unscientific experiment be measuring each grip angle. I did not use the photo below to measure the angles. I used the gun on a clean sheet of paper and measured from the top of the barrel to the front of the grip. I measured them in about 10 minutes but I think the results are pretty accurate.

From the top:
Ruger 22/45 at 106 degrees
G19 at 111 degrees and Luger P08 at 125 degrees
XD9 at 105 degrees and P38 at 104 degrees
Sig 228 at 106 degrees and Colt 1911 at 107 degrees

If anyone has another popular handgun and wants to post the grip angle feel free.




http://members.cox.net/chrismosteller/grip2.jpg

scootle
12-05-2010, 7:06 PM
haha, nice. thanks for doing this. i'll chime in later on with my ruger mk III and M&P9 later on, if nobody beats me to it.

XDRoX
12-05-2010, 7:17 PM
haha, nice. thanks for doing this. i'll chime in later on with my ruger mk III and M&P9 later on, if nobody beats me to it.

What's most shocking to me is that they are all so close. You hear people complain about grip angles all the time, but really, they're not all that different.

I'm interested in what the M&P will measure. I don't own one but im guessing it will be around 105 or 106 degrees. Your MKIII will probably be pretty aggressive. I'm guessing around 115.

cineski
12-05-2010, 7:31 PM
Which part of the grip are you measuring? The rear or front strap? The rear is the biggest factor in how a gun points.

XDRoX
12-05-2010, 7:35 PM
Which part of the grip are you measuring? The rear or front strap? The rear is the biggest factor in how a gun points.

I measured the front because the backs are not straight and it would be impossible to get an accurate measurement.

You bring up a valid point however.

PonchoTA
12-05-2010, 7:44 PM
From:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/steyr40.htm (or: How The Steyr out-Glocks the Glock!)


Grip

The grip has one finger groove that should fit almost all hand sizes, large and small. The upper rear of the grip frame is dished out, somewhat similar to the Beretta guns. This allows the web of the hand to get in a little tighter and also makes reaching the trigger easier.

Actually, some people who are used to oversized, large grips may at first complain that the Steyr grip is too small. I'm sure that grip socks will be made available for the Steyr to satisfy the needs of some owners. I'm 6' 1" and have long fingers, And I find the Steyr quite pleasant to shoot.

The grip angle is 111 degrees. [ETA: Just like the natural angle that your hand is] Basically, this means when you aim the Steyr, you don't have to cock your wrist up or down since it is a natural point shooting pistol. The bore axis is so low (lower than a Glock) that it's almost like pointing your finger. A nice side effect is less felt recoil as well.

The textured pattern on the grip is adequate to obtain a nonslip grip. I personally like the more radical HK USP grip texture that almost feels like sandpaper --- but some people think that's a little too much. At any rate, the grip shape, along with the textured pattern, fits my hand perfectly.

Under "Slide Rails"

... It's interesting to note that the rails are cut at a 45 degree angle. This allows the slide and barrel to ride about 1/8" lower than existing pistols with rails cut at 90 degrees. The Steyr bore axis is about 5mm lower than a Glock. As a result, there is less muzzle flip, less felt recoil, and the low bore axis helps to center the round coming out of the magazine into the barrel chamber.


This honestly is the best shooting gun I've ever shot or owned. I find that most of the time, I really don't even have to aim, all I have to do is *look* at where I want the round to go, then just point and shoot. Just like a dart, the bullet goes right where I'm looking. I can't even stand to shoot a Glock anymore, the grip and ergonomics are horrible, and makes my hand/wrist hurt after only a few rounds downrange.


.

MT1
12-05-2010, 7:45 PM
What's most shocking to me is that they are all so close. You hear people complain about grip angles all the time, but really, they're not all that different.


The 5* difference between a Sig and the Glock would equal a 2 foot difference in bullet impact point at 25 feet if you don't look down the sights and adjust. This is a very significant difference if you look at how important muscle memory is to shooting in any setting other than a slow fire range.

steve91104
12-05-2010, 8:08 PM
Great info, thanks. How do you measure these?

Bellehood
12-05-2010, 8:20 PM
From:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/steyr40.htm (or: How The Steyr out-Glocks the Glock!)



This honestly is the best shooting gun I've ever shot or owned. I find that most of the time, I really don't even have to aim, all I have to do is *look* at where I want the round to go, then just point and shoot. Just like a dart, the bullet goes right where I'm looking. I can't even stand to shoot a Glock anymore, the grip and ergonomics are horrible, and makes my hand/wrist hurt after only a few rounds downrange.


.

that seems like a pretty extreme "i dont like glocks" statement. maybe the problem is how you are holding it then, because millions of people shoot them without pain. I will be the first to say that I too find some gun's to have much more comfortable grip angles than others, but I have never had a pistol cause me physical pain because of its angle (the only exception being large caliber revolvers, combination of awkward grip and large caliber).

The only handguns that I have ever put down after a short period of shooting are single stack, super thin 9mm and .40's, like the Kahr P9, but I have pretty big hands.

PonchoTA
12-05-2010, 8:34 PM
It may be extreme, but that's just the way it is. I shoot any more than a couple of mags full on my friend's Glock's (don't recall the models right off, but one is .40S&W and one is .45), and my wrist just hurts. I also shoot his Colt 1991, without pain.

Both of my Steyr's are .40 as well (M40 and S40), just for info.


:shrug:

The DRis
12-05-2010, 10:34 PM
From:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/steyr40.htm (or: How The Steyr out-Glocks the Glock!)

[ETA: Just like the natural angle that your hand is]


That is purely opinion. Every person is different. That is why there are so many different angles.

Bill Steele
12-05-2010, 10:46 PM
I have always felt the grip angle makes a large difference to how a gun feels in my hand. This is why I have never bought a Glock, besides the fact that I think they are butt ugly, the grip angle always feels bad in my hand.

Now, having said that, I always shoot Glocks pretty well. The grip angle that bothers me so much when I am holding it in my hand, unloaded, seems to fade away when I am focusing on that front sight.

It actually galls me a little, the fact that Glocks are so darn functional. Kind of like a woman that is great in bed, cooks like Julia Child and makes her own clothes but you just can't stand to look at her.

vNaK
12-05-2010, 11:23 PM
Glock's grip angle is ~111?

Just saw that HK P7PSP ad where it shows it's grip angle is 110 and that it gives the gun a natural "point and aim" making it point like your finger. If the Glock is ~111, shouldn't that feel pretty normal for everyone then? :confused:

UserM4
12-05-2010, 11:26 PM
Well I guess that blows that myth about how XD grip angle was designed off the 1911 lol.

chickenfried
12-05-2010, 11:28 PM
The fat grip ruins it :p. . If the Glock is ~111, shouldn't that feel pretty normal for everyone then? :confused:

Colt-45
12-06-2010, 1:05 AM
Look at the grip of 125. And people complain about the grip of 111. :rolleyes:

Nice comparison.

railroader
12-06-2010, 6:07 AM
The thing with the glock isn't the 111 degrees in the front it's the hump on the bottom of the backstrap that feels weird to me. !911's with arched main spring housings feel weird too. Mark

fullrearview
12-06-2010, 6:53 AM
What's most shocking to me is that they are all so close. You hear people complain about grip angles all the time, but really, they're not all that different.

I'm interested in what the M&P will measure. I don't own one but im guessing it will be around 105 or 106 degrees. Your MKIII will probably be pretty aggressive. I'm guessing around 115.

They are A LOT different though.....Just they don't seam like that on paper.

fullrearview
12-06-2010, 7:02 AM
Glock's grip angle is ~111?

Just saw that HK P7PSP ad where it shows it's grip angle is 110 and that it gives the gun a natural "point and aim" making it point like your finger. If the Glock is ~111, shouldn't that feel pretty normal for everyone then? :confused:

Despite what "professionals" tell you, people are built differently. Glock doesn't feel good to me at all, while sig and xd do!

ianS
12-06-2010, 9:59 AM
There is no such thing as an "incorrect" grip angle. There's what you're used to or prefer or not used to or don't prefer. I believe there are certain grip angles that allow certain shooters to shoot "better" but not sure if we can even prove that scientifically, otherwise we'll just have to take individual's shooters word at it.

It actually galls me a little, the fact that Glocks are so darn functional. Kind of like a woman that is great in bed, cooks like Julia Child and makes her own clothes but you just can't stand to look at her.


Its a good thing since I treat my Glock like a slave. There are other pistols that seem like a woman who's cold in bed, won't cook/clean, spends all my money, and nags all day. Some people are willing to put up with a certain amount of **** from their pistols. I guess I don't. A real woman on the other hand well......that depends....