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CalNRA
07-08-2006, 1:37 AM
...

chris
07-08-2006, 1:42 AM
yeah this is confusing to me. i have taken my electric bill in and that seemed to work.

a mortgage reciept is not good enough either. the steps we are taking to obtain firearms are becoming difficult at best. it's what the brady bunch wants. if anyone has more info on this is it would be greatly appreciated as i'm confused like many here.

the last gun i bought was my .44 mag and i did not have to produce any proof of residence. my memory may be a little crowded as i have had gone through a lot of crap over the last year.

kantstudien
07-08-2006, 1:51 AM
33. What documentation is acceptable to demonstrate proof of residency for handgun purchasers?
Utility bill from within the past three months that bears on its face the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
or
The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
"Utility bill" means a statement of charges for providing service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired telephone connection or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection) or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.


Residential lease that bears the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
or

The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification card, or change of address attachment thereto.
"Residential lease" means either of the following:
A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time
or

A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.



Property deed the bears the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
or

The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
"Property deed" means either or the following:
A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust
or

A valid Certificate of title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.



Current, government-issued license, permit, or registration, other than a CA Driver License or CA Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
or

The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.


Examples of acceptable proof of residency:

Current DMV registrations.
Electricity, gas, cable bill with purchaser's name on it from within the last 3 months.
Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.
Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:

Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
Cellular phone bill.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-08-2006, 2:05 AM
What kantstudien posted above is from the CalDOJ Firearms Dealer FAQ page...

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dlrfaqs.htm

If that doesn't work and the dealer wants to see the actual law, show him PC Section 12071(b)(8)(C)...

Commencing January 1, 2003, no handgun may be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents documentation indicating that he or she is a California resident. Satisfactory documentation shall include a utility bill from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property deed, or military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice. The firearms dealer shall retain a photocopy of the documentation as proof of compliance with this requirement.

For long guns you just need a current driver's license or state ID card.

grammaton76
07-08-2006, 2:06 AM
The handgun requirements seem to have gone way through the roof lately, with regards to proof of residence.

Some stores, Big5 in particular, seem to want to apply this to long guns too. I got a huge run-around from them when I bought my Mosin-Nagant 91/30 a while back. In fact, that's the main reason I don't go to Big5 at all anymore.

leelaw
07-08-2006, 2:10 AM
Sigh...another hoop to jump through..

any one know of a cheap place to notarize things in Santa Cruz county

If you have a rental or lease agreement that is dated, why would you need to waste money on a notary?

Just print out a copy of the DOJ FAQ that shows that a lease is OK, and bring in a copy of the lease. They MUST accept it.

CalNRA
07-08-2006, 2:37 AM
I told the guy at Antioch that and he refused flat out to acept my agreement without it being notarized, and i don't feel like driving for an hour just to have the guy say "no" again. Nice guys who are misiformed can be just as a pain in the rear as a-holes...

leelaw
07-08-2006, 3:04 AM
I told the guy at Antioch that and he refused flat out to acept my agreement without it being notarized, and i don't feel like driving for an hour just to have the guy say "no" again. Nice guys who are misiformed can be just as a pain in the rear as a-holes...

Call ahead of time. If you were dealing with some sales clerk, ask to speak to the manager and politely explain the situation, and what the regulations say, as posted on the DOJ's own website.

If they still give you crap, find another store.

The SoCal Gunner
07-08-2006, 3:14 AM
I told the guy at Antioch that and he refused flat out to acept my agreement without it being notarized, and i don't feel like driving for an hour just to have the guy say "no" again. Nice guys who are misiformed can be just as a pain in the rear as a-holes...

I usually carry around the HSC pamplet around with me when I use my resedential lease agreement. I'm in the same boat and the car is in my dad's name. I also have a print out of the actual penal code.

If you ever go back, ask them for the booklet and flip to the section that shows the penal code. Then kindly ask the salesmen where it says that a notarized lease is required. Then tell them they need to stop spreading lies.

KenpoProfessor
07-08-2006, 4:19 AM
It keeps the illegals from buying guns at gun shops at least. If they can't prove residency, I don't want them buying guns. I use my electric bill or car registration because the address is different from my DL.

OTOH, I believe we should be able to buy guns in others states legally if you can PROVE you're a U.S. resident period.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

JPglee1
07-08-2006, 6:49 AM
OTOH, I believe we should be able to buy guns in others states legally if you can PROVE you're a U.S. resident period.




Actually, you CAN buy certain long guns F-2-F in other states....

Anything pre-1956 that is a shotgun or rifle can be bought in NV/AZ/UT and brought home cash n carry as long as its not an ASW by California definition.

If you see an M1 Garand for sale in Tucson, you can go pick it up cash and carry as this is ALSO legal in California.

The law says it has to be legal in BOTH states to do an intrastate purchase, in CA its legal to sell F-2-F if your long gun is older than 1956.



JP

WokMaster1
07-08-2006, 7:55 AM
Hmm! That also happened to me at Big 5 (Pinole) It was for a Remington 870.
But the funny thing is that they didn't informed me for 3 weeks after I picked up the shotgun. They called me 3 times & each time I went to the store, the MOD was not aware of the situation. I finally raised hell about them not getting their act together & wasting my time. Got a $10 gift card for my trouble.

However I didn't have to do anything like this when I picked up the Bushy Cal-15 (yes, I know!!!!!:o )

I think it would help if all gun stores post all the legal info (with the penal code for reference) on a poster for all to see. Like what all businesses have to post as far as employee rights, legal info, CAL OSHA, Material Safety Data Sheet, etc. Hmmmm! a business idea.....LOL!!

EOD Guy
07-08-2006, 11:03 AM
Actually, you CAN buy certain long guns F-2-F in other states....

Anything pre-1956 that is a shotgun or rifle can be bought in NV/AZ/UT and brought home cash n carry as long as its not an ASW by California definition.

If you see an M1 Garand for sale in Tucson, you can go pick it up cash and carry as this is ALSO legal in California.

The law says it has to be legal in BOTH states to do an intrastate purchase, in CA its legal to sell F-2-F if your long gun is older than 1956.



JP

You can't do that face to face. It is a violation of Federal law. Sales to residents of other states can only be made by an FFL holder.

Smokeybehr
07-08-2006, 11:39 AM
I used my paystub from my government job as my proof of residency, since I live with my parents to save money to buy my own place. If the address where I'm living is good enough for the County of Fresno to send me money, then it's got to be good enough for the State to let me have a gun there.

Otherguy Overby
07-08-2006, 12:16 PM
Here's a question. I've an out of state driver license, own a residence in another state, have a current CA Real Estate license here, own property (a residence) here and pay taxes, utility bills here & etc.

Can I purchase a handgun here?

Can I purchase a long gun here?

lpspinner
07-08-2006, 12:35 PM
Actually, you CAN buy certain long guns F-2-F in other states....

Anything pre-1956 that is a shotgun or rifle can be bought in NV/AZ/UT and brought home cash n carry as long as its not an ASW by California definition.

If you see an M1 Garand for sale in Tucson, you can go pick it up cash and carry as this is ALSO legal in California.

The law says it has to be legal in BOTH states to do an intrastate purchase, in CA its legal to sell F-2-F if your long gun is older than 1956.



JP



You can only do that if you (the buyer) has a valid C&R FFL. You can legally buy a C&R (50 years or older) long gun or handgun out of state. The handgun must be self registered by submiting the proper forms and fees to the DOJ. No COE is required for this either.

JPglee1
07-08-2006, 12:48 PM
You can only do that if you (the buyer) has a valid C&R FFL. You can legally buy a C&R (50 years or older) long gun or handgun out of state. The handgun must be self registered by submiting the proper forms and fees to the DOJ. No COE is required for this either.

Ahh, well I stand corrected....I was wrong. Thanks for showing me the *light*


Oh well, there's always Pre-1899 Mausers, they can be bought interstate for sure. ;)


JP

Mssr. Eleganté
07-08-2006, 1:08 PM
But if you can find the particular section that exempts C&R guns from the FFL/DROS requirement, please post it.

The particular section is 12078(t)(2)...

12078(t)(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

The "Subdivision (d) of Section 12072" that the above exemption refers to is the section of the law that requires Dealer transfers.

DSA_FAL
07-08-2006, 3:09 PM
But note that if you are actually not a CA resident (but have property, r.e. license, and utility bill), and then use one of these documents (fraudulently), you could get into serious trouble.

Chances are he would never get caught. Some people never drive above 65 mph on the freeway. Others routinely ignore the law. Ultimately it's up to each individual to assess their level of comfort with the risks and whether the rewards outweigh the risks and make their own decision.

Hunter
07-08-2006, 3:19 PM
Here's a question. I've an out of state driver license, own a residence in another state, have a current CA Real Estate license here, own property (a residence) here and pay taxes, utility bills here & etc.

Can I purchase a handgun here?

No, unless you are a resident and have a CA DL or ID card.

Can I purchase a long gun here?

Yes, IF you have a CA DL or ID card. You donot need to be a resident for a longgun, but you still need the CA DL OR CA ID card.

Otherguy Overby
07-08-2006, 3:31 PM
Are you a California resident or not? I have no idea how to define residency in this case. What state do you vote in? That might be a strong indication of residency, but I'm not sure it is sufficient.

According to the feds, I satisfy residency requirements.

Also note the list of documents that can be used to demonstrate CA residency to a gun dealer (it was posted in another thread or in this thread recently). But note that if you are actually not a CA resident (but have property, r.e. license, and utility bill), and then use one of these documents (fraudulently), you could get into serious trouble.

Would you please explain to me how I could be doing anything fraudulent in regard to California?

rorschach
07-08-2006, 4:57 PM
It keeps the illegals from buying guns at gun shops at least. If they can't prove residency, I don't want them buying guns.

Do you think thats going to stop illegals from buying guns??

Of course not. Because like criminals, illegals are not buying guns from Turners or Ades, they are buying them off the street or stealing them. Hell, most illegals are so poor their probably spending their cash on more important things like beer, beans and tortillas, and sending the rest home.

Everyone in LA knows to go to MacArthur Park just west of Downtown on Alvarado St., or Pacific Avenue in Huntington Park. You can get fake drivers licenses, stolen social security cards, matricular cards, weapons, babies, kidneys -you name it. I once read a report of a guy selling monkeys, pirhanas and poisonous snakes on Alvarado.

All this residency requirement does is piss off law abiding gun owners.

That being said, I keep a photocopy of my motorcycle registration and insurance card in my wallet because theres not really anywhere to keep it on the bike. I just use that whenever I need proof of residency. Once I let it expire, so I had to use the Direct TV bill.

EOD Guy
07-08-2006, 6:38 PM
Actually that's no longer the case...As far as the DOJ is concerned.
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#7
But if you can find the particular section that exempts C&R guns from the FFL/DROS requirement, please post it.
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/index.html


Sorry, but you're wrong. C&R rifles and shotguns over 50 years old can be transferred in California without dealer involvement. See the Penal Code Section 12078(t)(2).

12078. (t)(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

SemiAutoSam
07-08-2006, 9:02 PM
Are you a California resident or not? I have no idea how to define residency in this case. What state do you vote in? That might be a strong indication of residency, but I'm not sure it is sufficient.

Also note the list of documents that can be used to demonstrate CA residency to a gun dealer (it was posted in another thread or in this thread recently). But note that if you are actually not a CA resident (but have property, r.e. license, and utility bill), and then use one of these documents (fraudulently), you could get into serious trouble.

Have you never heard of someone having a domicile / residence in more than one state ?

http://www.uscg.mil/mlclant/Ldiv/domicile_and_residence.htm