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View Full Version : New to rifles type of question (registration)


The SoCal Gunner
07-07-2006, 1:06 PM
Ok, I am totally new to rifles and I was reading up on the DOJ site and came across this.

"Under California law, no rifle or shotgun purchaser information may be retained by the DOJ. The DROS fee only covers the cost to determine whether or not a purchaser is prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm at the time of the transaction. Additionally, once eligibility has been verified, the DOJ is required by law to destroy all DROS information pertaining to long guns. The assault weapon registration period has ended. The DOJ is no longer accepting assault weapon registration forms."

Does this mean that any rifle I purchase will not be registered with the state? If that is the case how do the police determine what belongs to me? and what if I were ever robbed, how do I prove ownership of my rifles?

Another important questions is how do I know the rifle I am purchasing through PPT is not stolen?

blacklisted
07-07-2006, 1:58 PM
Although there is no centralized database that shows what long guns you own, the 4473 form you fill out at the dealer has the serial number on it and is retained. That is how the police find out.

Ok, I am totally new to rifles and I was reading up on the DOJ site and came across this.

"Under California law, no rifle or shotgun purchaser information may be retained by the DOJ. The DROS fee only covers the cost to determine whether or not a purchaser is prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm at the time of the transaction. Additionally, once eligibility has been verified, the DOJ is required by law to destroy all DROS information pertaining to long guns. The assault weapon registration period has ended. The DOJ is no longer accepting assault weapon registration forms."

Does this mean that any rifle I purchase will not be registered with the state? If that is the case how do the police determine what belongs to me? and what if I were ever robbed, how do I prove ownership of my rifles?

Another important questions is how do I know the rifle I am purchasing through PPT is not stolen?

The SoCal Gunner
07-09-2006, 10:58 AM
Correct. The only thing the DoJ database knows is that you purchased long arms (I'm not sure whether they know how many were on the form).


By going to the gun dealer, and auditing or inspecting his records, which contain the make and serial number of the gun.


Law is not like mathematics, in the sense that statements (like 2x2=4 or "I own Remington model 1234 serial 5678") are not provable in law. If you need to give strong evidence to support your claim that you own that rifle, you can produce a receipt for it, or a photocopy of the 4473 form that has the number on it and which the dealer kindly gave you, or by subpoena'ing the dealer and producing copies of his records, or something like that.


This is difficult to prove conclusively. You can call any police station, and they have a registry of all guns that have been reported as stolen. If the rifle was never reported as stolen (or the registry is broken), there is probably no way to find out. The only really good way would be to identify all previous owners, and ask them to provide documentation how they legally purchased it, up to the point where you find evidence that the rifle was sold as new from a gun dealer, or even better that the rifle was shipped from the manufacturer or importer to a wholesaler or dealer. This is likely to require significant cost and effort, to subpoena all the required records.

Let say in this case no receipt or copy of 4473 is available (the receipt I got from my OLLs looks like anyone could just buy the receipt pads and write it themselves). So they COULD find out which rifles you own but finding out who your FFL was and then auditing them would take much time. What about when just being pulled over and searched? Will police be able to access the # of long guns, or types, you possess?

I understand, with handguns, that if pulled over the officer is able to access their computers to see what is registered to you but what about rifles? If you only have rifles in the car are they unable to do any type of check so they just let you go as long as you are transporting them legally?

6172crew
07-09-2006, 11:09 AM
Let say in this case no receipt or copy of 4473 is available (the receipt I got from my OLLs looks like anyone could just buy the receipt pads and write it themselves). So they COULD find out which rifles you own but finding out who your FFL was and then auditing them would take much time. What about when just being pulled over and searched? Will police be able to access the # of long guns, or types, you possess?

I understand, with handguns, that if pulled over the officer is able to access their computers to see what is registered to you but what about rifles? If you only have rifles in the car are they unable to do any type of check so they just let you go as long as you are transporting them legally?

The 4473 is retained by the FFL and you dont get a copy. I think Traders sports in San Leandro was missing a few of these and the ATF shut them down.

Your receipt isnt a 4473, the 4473 was to form you filled out asking if you were a loon, legal alien, druggy,bad conduct discharge, etc.