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Sgt Seahorse
11-24-2010, 9:22 PM
My brother just bought a mosin nagant and we cant get a round to fully chamber. We've thoroughly cleaned the rifle and the bolt. So I was fiddling with the bolt and it seems that the extractor is extremely stiff. Is this normal? Is there any way to fix this? It takes an insane amount of force to get the extractor to move, but at least it moves. Thanks

safewaysecurity
11-24-2010, 9:26 PM
does the extractor have anything to do with going into battery ad feeding the round? Might be feed ramp? Also if the nagant is new the extractor is prolly stiff cuz well it's new.

Sgt Seahorse
11-24-2010, 9:46 PM
i've hand fed the round into the chamber and no probs. feed ramps good. So if the extractor is new, do you suggest slamming the bolt down?

mosinnagantm9130
11-24-2010, 9:50 PM
Wait, are you inserting the round into the chamber by hand, and then trying to close the bolt? If so, that's a good way to break your extractor.

Sgt Seahorse
11-24-2010, 9:54 PM
no i insert the round into the magwell and try to chamber it normally. I can get the bolt to move forward but not lock down.

mosinnagantm9130
11-24-2010, 9:56 PM
Have you checked headspace yet?

Sgt Seahorse
11-24-2010, 10:00 PM
not yet. could it not be chambering because of headspace? Even so I don't think this extractor should be so stiff.

Echo34
11-24-2010, 10:02 PM
Also if the nagant is new the extractor is prolly stiff cuz well it's new.

Is there such a thing as a "new" Nagant? The last production model was late 1960's wasn't it?

I'm with mosinnagantm9130, Im fairly certian the extractor isnt supposed to move. A headspace check could be in order. Also, if the bolt doesnt have the same model number as the reciever, you could have a mis-matched or a poorly force matched bolt handle.

mosinnagantm9130
11-24-2010, 10:04 PM
not yet. could it not be chambering because of headspace? Even so I don't think this extractor should be so stiff.

Yes, that could be caused by bad headspace.

And mosin extractors are really stiff, it's normal.

mosinnagantm9130
11-24-2010, 10:08 PM
Is there such a thing as a "new" Nagant? The last production model was late 1960's wasn't it?


Last standard production that I know of are the 1970 m39's. M28/76's were built in the mid-70's, but they were converted from 28/30's, not built new.

Sgt Seahorse
11-24-2010, 10:12 PM
so if it turns out being a headspace problem would I need to take it to a gunsmith? im going to try to check the headspace asap

mosinnagantm9130
11-24-2010, 10:17 PM
so if it turns out being a headspace problem would I need to take it to a gunsmith?

Not always. You could try different bolts until you found one that passed, or you could swap out bolt heads until you find one that will pass headspace.

If neither of those are an option, then I'd take it to a gunsmith, but you may pay more to fix the rifle than you paid to buy the rifle.

swifty
11-24-2010, 10:20 PM
Slip a cartridge onto the bolt face and under the extractor, Will the bolt close?

If yes, you have an issue with the extractor.

Sgt Seahorse
11-24-2010, 10:21 PM
ok well i'll try to get gauges for now then see what happens from there

mosinnagantm9130
11-24-2010, 10:24 PM
Slip a cartridge onto the bolt face and under the extractor, Will the bolt close?

If yes, you have an issue with the extractor.

^^Try this test before you go get gauges, it might save you some money. If you do the above, and the bolt doesn't close, I'm betting headspace.

Interloper
11-24-2010, 10:52 PM
Hang on guys. The Mosin action is push feed, not controlled round feed. The extractor is supposed to be forced over the rim.
Maybe it's a headspace problem though I doubt it. I've yet to read about a legitimate headspace issue on a Mosin. I'll bet the answer to this problem, just like most milsurp issues, is dried cosmoline.

swifty
11-24-2010, 11:07 PM
You're correct Interloper. The rim of the case needs to end up under the extractor before the bolt can close all the way, regardless of push feed or CRF. By slipping the rim of the case under the extractor, you might be able to dismiss a faulty extractor, at no cost and 30 seconds of the OP's time.

I too doubt that it is a headspace issue, but the possibility does exist that a too long bolt and/or bolt-head has been swapped for the original.

safewaysecurity
11-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Is there such a thing as a "new" Nagant? The last production model was late 1960's wasn't it?


Yea... I thought they were all military surplus from back in the day but I'm not as familiar with it as some are. Don't know if there are "unfired" or reproductions out there. Could be that it wasn't ever really fired but idk.

rojocorsa
11-25-2010, 12:48 AM
Sometimes I find that moving the bolt a little slow and making sure that the rim catches the extractor before its too far forward really helps. I honestly wish that Mosins did not have this perk, however.

I know exactly what the OP is talking about. If there is a way to fix it other than being careful, I'd also like to know.

Sgt Seahorse
11-25-2010, 8:06 AM
Slip a cartridge onto the bolt face and under the extractor, Will the bolt close?

If yes, you have an issue with the extractor.

i cant get the round to sit flush on the bolt face with everything in the chamber. I cant get the extractor to move unless its completely out of the rifle. Been trying to do this for the last half hour.

I'm pretty sure we need a new bolt head w/ extractor.

oh ya .. Happy thanksgiving!

Sgt Seahorse
11-25-2010, 8:08 AM
You're correct Interloper. The rim of the case needs to end up under the extractor before the bolt can close all the way, regardless of push feed or CRF. By slipping the rim of the case under the extractor, you might be able to dismiss a faulty extractor, at no cost and 30 seconds of the OP's time.

I too doubt that it is a headspace issue, but the possibility does exist that a too long bolt and/or bolt-head has been swapped for the original.

just checked the ser #'s and everything on the rifle matches.

swifty
11-25-2010, 8:15 AM
Take the bolt head off of the bolt body and see if the cartridge will fit the bolt face flush.

Sgt Seahorse
11-25-2010, 8:21 AM
Take the bolt head off of the bolt body and see if the cartridge will fit the bolt face flush.

it does when the bolt's out of the rifle. I can leverage it in with my fingers when its out, but not when inserted in the rifle.

MongooseV8
11-25-2010, 8:30 AM
Just to double check, is this a surplus/factory cartridge you are trying to load or a home reload?

Also, I can move my extractor a smidgen with my finger while the bolt is in the action. Its not easy but it moves, just as its designed to.

Sgt Seahorse
11-25-2010, 8:36 AM
these are milsurp rounds. and no the extractor wont move at all when in the action, esp if I only use my finger.

MongooseV8
11-25-2010, 9:21 AM
And the bolt is stamped with the same number as the rest of the rifle parts? Sometimes importers will restamp the parts that weapons ship in with, even though they dont actually match. Even so, I would bet against a headspace issue.

Its not a bad idea to check any mil surplus rifle for correct headspace before firing it. I think I got my last gauge from Midway for like $20. It kinda sucks buying something like that for a cheap rifle that you only need to use once. But my face is worth a bit more than $20 :D

I dont know if its possible, but maybe you can remove the extractor from the bolt, then try to close the bolt on a spent casing, or a live round if you must. That will tell you if the problem is the extractor, and maybe point to headspace.

bob7122
11-25-2010, 9:24 AM
i have had the same problem with my carbine lube reduced the problem then after firing 120rounds through it and lubeing real well it was almost completely gone.

have you lubed the boldt and bolt carrier and the rest of the stuff?

Sgt Seahorse
11-25-2010, 10:02 AM
yes everything is lubed. I've been trying to take out the extractor, but it seems that thing is really in there. Might just need to buy a new bolt head and/or extractor.

EDIT: just had a thought. Anyone in the bayarea willing to swap bolts just to check if that's our prob? that would help.

MongooseV8
11-25-2010, 10:38 AM
i have had the same problem with my carbine lube reduced the problem then after firing 120rounds through it

Uh you should not be shooting a rifle with a bolt that only partially closes :confused:

I just did a quick search and found this video to help removing the extractor. I think thats going to be your best bet. I will be in Walnut Creek this weekend if you want to meet up and try my bolt though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEGxpuyPyo

Interloper
11-25-2010, 10:48 AM
Don't bother removing the extractor. It's not designed to be removed for maintenance.
If you are really into Mosins, you might consider dropping $25 on an Okie Field Gauge. Like I said, I've yet to read any reports of bad headspace but what the heck. It's a fast easy way to rule that out.
The other thing to try, is get a bronze 20 gauge cleaning brush and go to town on the chamber. Also get some of those plastic dental picks they sell at Walmart and try digging around the chamber where the bolt lugs fit in. Could be a bunch of dried cosmo in there.

SoCal AL
11-25-2010, 2:41 PM
Wait, are you inserting the round into the chamber by hand, and then trying to close the bolt? If so, that's a good way to break your extractor.

I'm new to the gun. I never knew it was bad to insert the round into chamber and then close the bolt. Is this typical with all bolt actions or just the mosin nagant? Why would it increase the chance of breaking the extractor?

BayAreaShooter
11-25-2010, 2:54 PM
I'm new to the gun. I never knew it was bad to insert the round into chamber and then close the bolt. Is this typical with all bolt actions or just the mosin nagant? Why would it increase the chance of breaking the extractor?

I was going to ask but you beat me to it. I have been shootig my Mosin like this lately. :pinch: whoops. :D

rojocorsa
11-25-2010, 2:59 PM
I'm new to the gun. I never knew it was bad to insert the round into chamber and then close the bolt. Is this typical with all bolt actions or just the mosin nagant? Why would it increase the chance of breaking the extractor?

I was going to ask but you beat me to it. I have been shootig my Mosin like this lately. :pinch: whoops. :D


The best thing to do is to push the round into the mag, and just slide the bolt forward making sure the extractor will pick up on the rim. Once it catches it before getting to the "lug area" it should be able to close without incident given that everything else is clean.

mosinnagantm9130
11-25-2010, 9:12 PM
I have heard of bad headspace on a mosin, although it's a rare occurence. If it isn't bad headspace, it could be a bent extractor.

Fate
11-25-2010, 9:48 PM
Also get some of those plastic dental picks they sell at Walmart and try digging around the chamber where the bolt lugs fit in. Could be a bunch of dried cosmo in there.

This is my guess. The extractor groove at the mouth of the chamber is pretty notorious for getting dried cosmoline in there. This area needs to be cleaned out, otherwise your bolt won't fully close as you're trying to force the extractor into a spot where there is no longer the appropriate space due to a blockage.

NaughtyMonkey
11-25-2010, 9:54 PM
Did this Mosin-Nagant come from Big 5, if so I'm also betting on cosmoline!

Interloper
11-25-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm new to the gun. I never knew it was bad to insert the round into chamber and then close the bolt. Is this typical with all bolt actions or just the mosin nagant? Why would it increase the chance of breaking the extractor?

As I said above, you are not going to break the extractor by forcing it over the rim. That's how the gun is designed to function. It's a push feed.

cvgunright
12-04-2010, 7:39 AM
I had a similar issue and there was a burr on the extractor face. I replaced the extractor and no worries.

metalliman545
12-04-2010, 11:50 PM
just checked the ser #'s and everything on the rifle matches.

its easy to make all the parts numbers match when you cross them out and re electro pencil a new one on them

Jimmy310
12-05-2010, 1:03 AM
I had the same problem and got one of these:

http://www.buymilsurp.com/bolt-head-with-extractor-mosin-nagant-rifles-p-72.html