PDA

View Full Version : Collectible Firearms Protection Act


OneSevenDeuce
11-22-2010, 11:15 AM
Hey guys, have you heard about this? I'm sure everyone is familiar with the snafu over the South Korean C&R firearms sale. If you aren't it is definitely something that all C&R collectors should know about. Anyway, a few senators have introduced a new bill that would lift many limitations on the importation of C&R firearms. I did a write up on it is anyone wants to stay up on the issue.

http://glog-blog.com/2010/11/22/new-bill-aims-to-ease-importation-of-curio-and-relic-guns/

I don't know about you guys, but I look forward to higher availability of some of my favorite C&R guns. Good luck senators.

Springfield45
11-22-2010, 1:20 PM
Sounds like a great idea to me.

We should allow importation of these guns before Korea sells them to some one else and they fall into terrorist/dictator/third world hands. Any guns sold here are essentially taken off of the world market that may be used for evil.

This is a much better reason to allow importation than the BS reasons the Government gave for not allowing them in.

Cowboy T
11-22-2010, 1:28 PM
Actually, my understanding is that they are already owned by the US Government and are on loan to South Korea. Now South Korea wants to sell our own firearms back to us? Nope, they should turn them back in since they're USA property in the first place. Then, they could go through the CMP and end up in the hands of law-abiding gun owners. An M1 Garand is an excellent deer rifle, and an M1 Carbine (with the proper bullet) would be pretty good for whitetails, too.

!

Vlad 11
11-22-2010, 1:29 PM
I'm definitely down with this. I would also like to see something added that would protect all C&R firearms. Specifically, saving bringbacks from those idiotic gun buybacks. It really ticks me off to see rare and valuable guns in the buyback pile that are just going to be melted down. Its an affront to our history and i know the soldiers who fought and sacrificed so much would be even more PO'd than me to see that happen.

NRAhighpowershooter
11-22-2010, 1:37 PM
Actually, my understanding is that they are already owned by the US Government and are on loan to South Korea. Now South Korea wants to sell our own firearms back to us? Nope, they should turn them back in since they're USA property in the first place. Then, they could go through the CMP and end up in the hands of law-abiding gun owners. An M1 Garand is an excellent deer rifle, and an M1 Carbine (with the proper bullet) would be pretty good for whitetails, too.

!

The Carbines and Garands forementioned were BOUGHT by the S. Koreans... not loaned to them

CEDaytonaRydr
11-22-2010, 1:44 PM
There has to be at least 2 more threads on this topic...

:dupe:

OneSevenDeuce
11-22-2010, 1:45 PM
There has to be at least 2 more threads on this topic...

:dupe:

Which topic? The South Korean arms sale? Or the new bill that tries to address it?

Cowboy T
11-22-2010, 1:51 PM
The Carbines and Garands forementioned were BOUGHT by the S. Koreans... not loaned to them

Hmm...you sure about that? If you've got a link, I'll stand corrected.

Interloper
11-22-2010, 3:16 PM
Would this bill cover imports from China and Russia as well?

OneSevenDeuce
11-22-2010, 3:17 PM
Would this bill cover imports from China and Russia as well?

I'm not sure on that, but I would guess that it would cover them unless there are some other restrictions in place barring importation from those two countries.

Interloper
11-22-2010, 3:23 PM
I'm not sure on that, but I would guess that it would cover them unless there are some other restrictions in place barring importation from those two countries.

There are indeed. That's why Canadians can get SVT's for $300 while we can't import anymore. :(

OneSevenDeuce
11-22-2010, 3:24 PM
There are indeed. That's why Canadians can get SVT's for $300 while we can't import anymore. :(

There you have it then. I do not believe that this bill would affect anything other than the required paperwork for importing from foreign sources. Any other restrictions should be unaffected.

Haggar85
11-22-2010, 3:30 PM
the last organized sinister group to use the Garand to any limited success was Che Guevara and his lackeys in Cuba and Bolivia. i dont see any sinister groups or gang bangers rolling with Garands.

OneSevenDeuce
11-22-2010, 3:30 PM
the last organized sinister group to use the Garand to any limited success was Che Guevara and his lackeys in Cuba and Bolivia. i dont see any sinister groups or gang bangers rolling with Garands.

Not when they can get AKs for half the price.

Haggar85
11-22-2010, 3:37 PM
a cal gunner needs to get into politics so we have a voice of logic in a position of power. ........the should thing that goes up...

microwaveguy
11-22-2010, 6:31 PM
Copy of the actual bill is here

http://tester.senate.gov/Legislation/upload/Firearm_Import.pdf

So it looks like any 50 year old C&R is good ???

dustoff31
11-24-2010, 6:07 PM
Would this bill cover imports from China and Russia as well?

According to an article I read just the other day, no it wouldn't. I would post the source but I can't for the life of me remember where I read it. It was in an article related to the nomination of the guy Obama wants to head up the ATF. If anyone finds it before I do please post it.

Anyway, the issue was that in the case of a country returning American guns to America, this proposed law would only take the Dept. of State out of the picture. As it stands, the DOS must approve such transactions, while ATF has no say in the matter.

For non-american guns, ATF has the sole decision making authority. Therefore, this guy's nomination is bad news.

dfletcher
11-24-2010, 7:28 PM
I may be wrong, but my understanding is these guns were on loan to ROK. ATF's letter speaks of "retransferring" and not selling:

http://www.scribd.com/full/39176770?access_key=key-k0k126h4dxkbhjq0z4r

Part of their logic is as follows: re-importing so many rifles would lower the cost of all M1 rifles and carbines making the model more affordable and as a result increase their use in crime. Evidently price point flexibility applies in crime also.

Quinc
11-24-2010, 8:02 PM
There are indeed. That's why Canadians can get SVT's for $300 while we can't import anymore. :(

Can we import from Canada? :D

Interloper
11-24-2010, 10:21 PM
Can we import from Canada? :D

Nope. There's some kind of arms importation treaty at work here. If you asked in the 2nd Amendment Politics & Law forum you would probably get a better answer than I could give you.
I think the ban on Chinese arms goes back to that incident where Feinstein's husband was trying to smuggle full auto AK's to LA street gangs.
The Russian ban was Bush era and was a result of sanctions against Russia for sharing missile tech with the Iranians. Maybe I just made all that up. :shrug:

At any rate, I would support the bill in question but I would hope we could leverage some kind of C&R exemption across the board. Well, a man can dream, can't he?

campperrykid
11-25-2010, 5:29 AM
Hmm...you sure about that? If you've got a link, I'll stand corrected.

The best of the GCA Journal Book 1 ( pgs 57 -61 ) , The GCA Journal Vol 2 Num 2 , Spring 1988. Available from the Garand Collectors Assoc.
Sold out once , available again soon.

Latest Carbine Club Newsletter.

Articles : San Jose Mercury News 12/13/1987
Time Magazine 01/11/1988
Washington Post 01/08/1988 and 01/14/1988

The ROKs " trying to sell what we loaned them " is a recycled gungrabber lie from 1987. Run a search on Calguns for more info .

The myth showed up again starting about a year ago . Some speculation links the spread to Century , the only importer which has been successful at obtaining permits to import USGI Garands and Carbines recently.

Some misguided individuals seem to be more vunerable to the myth than most.
Maybe Momma let them watch too many Dr. Fu Manchu movies when they were little.

rp55
11-25-2010, 12:04 PM
Hmm...you sure about that? If you've got a link, I'll stand corrected.

I cannot get The CMP forums to come up today but when you get a chance and they are up, go to the "Ask Orest" forum and search for Korea. It is all explained in excruciating detail there.

NaughtyMonkey
11-25-2010, 12:33 PM
I cannot get The CMP forums to come up today but when you get a chance and they are up, go to the "Ask Orest" forum and search for Korea. It is all explained in excruciating detail there.


Yes I got an email from the CMP I think there working on there site, adding new stuff to it. ;)

anywho that bill sounds great! I support it!

Anchors
11-25-2010, 8:51 PM
Man, if I could finally afford a couple of M1'!

How much do you guys think they will cost if this goes through?

NaughtyMonkey
11-25-2010, 8:58 PM
If they end up at Big 5, they will most likely be more then that CMP. Other places get them. I'm not so sure how much they would be.

Anchors
11-25-2010, 9:24 PM
Yeah. Something tells me the price wouldn't come down even with increased supply because once gun retailers know they can all get a price for something, the competition that lowers prices rarely happens.

Interloper
11-25-2010, 10:58 PM
Yeah. Something tells me the price wouldn't come down even with increased supply because once gun retailers know they can all get a price for something, the competition that lowers prices rarely happens.

Exactly. These Korean guns might be beat to hell and gone but they would base the price off the going rate at the CMP or Gunbroker.

campperrykid
11-26-2010, 5:16 AM
Right now , Century , SOG , and Big 5 have a Government price support program . Take that monopoly away , add huge numbers of M1 Carbines and 1911 series Pistols and the result is a buyers' market.
Pick up a copy of 'Man at Arms " magazine Volume 32 , No. 8 , 2010. Check out the Garand article by Bob Seijas . During the early 1980's , IHC Garands were almost impossible to find . When the LEO loophole opened and IHC's started coming in from Latin America: " Prices for IHC's dropped from $500 to $300 and stayed there for several years. "
And $500 was the real price , not the retail rip-off chump price. So a 40 % drop was very real , even though the numbers of Garands were quite low by today's standards.

Anchors
11-27-2010, 1:55 AM
Well, that would be rad.
If I could get one for $300 I would get several haha.

campperrykid
07-03-2011, 6:37 PM
Free market supply & demand can be very cool .
For the past few years only CAI has been able to wrangle import permits out of the Feds. Thru Guatemala , which is right on the brink of failed state status and has attracted a considerable amount of UN and gun-grabber NGO attention.
It's a .gov supported monopoly.

furyous68
07-04-2011, 2:00 PM
Part of their logic is as follows: re-importing so many rifles would lower the cost of all M1 rifles and carbines making the model more affordable and as a result increase their use in crime. Evidently price point flexibility applies in crime also.

But if they are "re-transferred" to the US government.. wouldn't they then be distributed through the CMP and not easily attained by your average gangbanger/ criminal?

Orlando
07-04-2011, 3:56 PM
But if they are "re-transferred" to the US government.. wouldn't they then be distributed through the CMP and not easily attained by your average gangbanger/ criminal?

If they were loaned to Korea they would be returned to the US Army and then Army would either keep them in storage or turn them over to CMP.
If they were sold to Korea its their property and they can sell them to the highest bidder which CMP would not be involved in

campperrykid
07-05-2011, 3:28 AM
What he said. And....

It might not ( maybe ) be an " either or " deal. Could be " both and " .
Some guns loaned , some bought and paid for. If only 10% of the ROK Carbines prove to be loaned , that's over 70K USGI
little brown guns . More Carbines than CMP has released in the last two ( 2 ) decades.
Anyway , some members of Congress and the NRA ( among others ) are working .
Goggle : , Collectible Firearms Protection Act .
H.R. 615
Sponsor & 99 cosponsors .
S.381
Sponsor and 9 cosponsors.

Just to compare , the dreaded HR 45 had one sponsor and zero ( 0 ) cosponsors .

Historical trivia : a guy named LaPierrie was a founding member of Blue Sky .
:chris:
www.nra.com
www.saf.org

WE are winning.

campperrykid
07-14-2011, 2:18 AM
Keeping track of the score:
Collectible Firearms Protection Act
H.R. 615
106 Sponsors ( up 5 )
S. 381
10 sponsors

campperrykid
07-23-2011, 2:04 PM
Keeping track of the score:
Collectible Firearms Protection Act
H.R. 615
113 Sponsors ( up 7 )
S. 381
10 sponsors