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View Full Version : K98 vs Mosin Nagant


Dr.Mauser
11-20-2010, 10:11 PM
I dont know if this has been done before, so let the debate begin!

IMHO I say the K98, the bolt system is still used on modern rifles, the 8mm is a Huge high impact round, and its accurate close to 900 yards. And was used even after the war in the middle east by Israel, and by the NVA in Vietnam.

TNP'R
11-20-2010, 10:21 PM
I dont know if this has been done before, so let the debate begin!

IMHO I say the K98, the bolt system is still used on modern rifles, the 8mm is a Huge high impact round, and its accurate close to 900 yards. And was used even after the war in the middle east by Israel, and by the NVA in Vietnam.

of course you would say the k98 look at your name lol.

Dr.Mauser
11-20-2010, 10:23 PM
:kest:
LIAR! im completely non-bias

InFamous20
11-20-2010, 10:23 PM
K98, you should know, you're the doctor for christs sake :chris:

mosinnagantm9130
11-20-2010, 10:23 PM
I dont know if this has been done before, so let the debate begin!

IMHO I say the K98, the bolt system is still used on modern rifles, the 8mm is a Huge high impact round, and its accurate close to 900 yards. And was used even after the war in the middle east by Israel, and by the NVA in Vietnam.

Also true of 7.62x54r, other than the Israel part. Not to mention 7.62x54r is the longest serving military cartridge still in service. 119 years and counting.

The bolt a K98 wins, but I'd still rather have a mosin over a K98 in combat.

Since the thread title is a generic "mosin nagant", I personally would want to have been issued either an M28/30 or an M39.

Edited to add: I'm not biased either:p

Interloper
11-20-2010, 10:30 PM
What the heck is your criteria here? Vs meaning what? Yeah the K98 was used after the war. Big deal. The Mosin is still in use today.
What cartridge has had a longer run? 7.62x54r has been in continuous front line military service for 120 years with no sign of going away anytime soon.
So the Mauser action is still in production in modern rifles...yet surplus Mosins probably out sell those same rifles any day of the week. You must be trollin, son.

Dr.Mauser
11-20-2010, 10:37 PM
The 8mm is still being used as well, by the Germans MG3 and is used for the M76...ok then how about in a SHTF scenario?

TNP'R
11-20-2010, 10:40 PM
The 8mm is still being used as well, by the Germans MG3 and is used for the M76...ok then how about in a SHTF scenario?

i wouldn't use either for a SHTF scenario.

Mssr. Eleganté
11-20-2010, 10:41 PM
If you and a friend were fending off a hoard of zombies tomorrow, would you rather have one K98 to share between you or two Mosin-Nagants?

Reductio
11-20-2010, 10:45 PM
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Mosin-Nagant-Arm-5-people.jpg

mosinnagantm9130
11-20-2010, 10:57 PM
The 8mm is still being used as well, by the Germans MG3 and is used for the M76...ok then how about in a SHTF scenario?

MG3 is 7.62 NATO. The m76 is currently being replaced by the m91, which is chambered in 7.62x54r.

glennsche
11-21-2010, 12:18 AM
MG3 is 7.62 NATO. The m76 is currently being replaced by the m91, which is chambered in 7.62x54r.

came here to say this! :) the main reason why the mg3 is the mg3 and no longer the mg42 is its recalibration to nato standard.

"the FRG purchased some ex-Wehrmacht MG 42 weapons from other countries. Those guns were converted to 7.62 NATO by Rheinmetall and officially designated MG 2. The newly produced MG 1 guns went through a number of modifications, which resulted in the definitive MG 3 version, which still is rather close in design to the war-time MG 42, although made to much higher standards of fit and finish. The simplicity, low manufacturing cost and high effectiveness of the MG 3 attracted several other countries, which either bought the guns from Rheinmetall (such as Denmark), or obtained manufacturing licenses and build (or at least have built in the past) the same guns domestically (such as Italy, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan and Yugoslavia)..."

from http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg33-e.htm

and FWIW, much rather have a k98 than a mosin in a fight. :)

rojocorsa
11-21-2010, 12:29 AM
As a target rifle, then the 98 is good.


The Mosin is a fine bolt action battle rifle.


I still think that the best battle rifle with a bolt would be an SMLE or No.4---but this is beyond the point and the thread.


How are we comparing the rifles?
We know you like Mausers, and that's OK. We're all friends here.

uxo2
11-21-2010, 3:03 AM
:kest:
LIAR! im completely non-bias


Traitor.....


Nagant over a Mauser.....

How dare you even ask

89 Vision
11-21-2010, 3:12 AM
Got both, love both. The K98 is harder to replace.

CDFingers
11-21-2010, 4:41 AM
These threads are fun.

Both rifles do what they were designed to do, and new examples of each do about the same. It's always best to own some of each.

I like to compete against myself using examples of each. I'm used to both types of triggers. I think the sights of the k98 allow for better pin point accuracy. I get fewer feed problems with the Mauser magazine. The Mauser carries better on its sling. I reload for both. I find the Mosin bolt to be simpler and more rugged. I find the Mosin to be quicker at target acquisition. The Mosin carbines kick more than the Mauser rifles.

These are both project rifles. The .45 Ruger single action is for zombies.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/CDFingers/riflesrevolverreflections2.jpg


Truth be told, the Finns should be in their own category.

1941 VKT m39 @ 100 meters.


http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/CDFingers/m39target1.jpg


CDFingers

hypnoman
11-21-2010, 7:17 AM
Fine photos of beautiful guns, CDFingers . . .

I, too, love both!!

hypnoman
11-21-2010, 7:19 AM
Fine photos of beautiful guns, CDFingers . . .

I, too, love both!!

hypnoman
11-21-2010, 7:25 AM
Fine photos of beautiful guns, CDFingers . . . I vote for both!

Jarhead
11-21-2010, 8:24 AM
I have built replica High Turret and Long Slide with original Zielvers on K98 and shot them against original PU Snipers ( RGuns ) and replica PE Snipers, all with Reloads and still feel the K98 is more accurate.

CSACANNONEER
11-21-2010, 8:34 AM
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Mosin-Nagant-Arm-5-people.jpg

A few years ago, Big5 had Turkish Mausers for as little as $39. So, you could arm 10 people for under $400.

IMHO, there is no comparision. I own serveral of each and will take a Mauser over a Mosin anyday.

Flyin Brian
11-21-2010, 10:17 AM
In my opinion, this K98 vs. Mosin Nagant thing was decided 65 years ago.

Jarhead
11-21-2010, 10:24 AM
it will never be decided ............................ :)

triggerhappy
11-21-2010, 10:42 AM
Jarhead's right. As for me, I prefer whichever one I have more ammo for at the time.

mauser98k
11-21-2010, 11:47 AM
assuming "Mosin Nagant" means "91/30", they're both rugged, reliable, powerful rifles. they're about as equal as can be

Vlad 11
11-21-2010, 1:19 PM
Karabiner 98k vs Mosin-nagant

Mg 43 vs DP 27

Panther Tank vs T-34

Me 262 vs Yak 9

V-2 Rocket vs Katyusha Rocket

The German stuff was superior in quality

The Russian stuff was superior in quantity.

cruddymutt
11-21-2010, 2:06 PM
I own both k98's and Mosins, love them both.

Interloper
11-21-2010, 2:21 PM
Karabiner 98k vs Mosin-nagant

Mg 43 vs DP 27

Panther Tank vs T-34

Me 262 vs Yak 9

V-2 Rocket vs Katyusha Rocket

The German stuff was superior in quality

The Russian stuff was superior in quantity.

PPS was better than the MP40
SVT was better than the G43
Panzer was great and inspired several other designs but the T34 soldiered on for several decades as a viable tank.
Katyusha and V2 is apples and oranges. The German counterpart would be the Nebelwerfer which was inferior to the the Katyusha.
Soviets had a better sniper platform and employed more snipers, with better tactics, than any other belligerent in the war.

Jarhead
11-21-2010, 4:59 PM
SVT was only better in the hands of German troops, too complicated for Regular Russian troops. T-34 was the best tank of the war and inspired the Panther. I think the MP40 is a better weapon than the PPSh-41 / PPS ( If your talking as Individual weapons)

Interloper
11-21-2010, 5:40 PM
SVT was only better in the hands of German troops, too complicated for Regular Russian troops. T-34 was the best tank of the war and inspired the Panther. I think the MP40 is a better weapon than the PPSh-41 / PPS ( If your talking as Individual weapons)
That's an old wives tale.

pullnshoot25
11-21-2010, 6:12 PM
MOSINS!

rojocorsa
11-21-2010, 11:51 PM
SVT was only better in the hands of German troops, too complicated for Regular Russian troops. T-34 was the best tank of the war and inspired the Panther. I think the MP40 is a better weapon than the PPSh-41 / PPS ( If your talking as Individual weapons)

Not to be confrontational at all, but may I ask why you think the MP-40 is better?

Anchors
11-22-2010, 12:44 AM
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Mosin-Nagant-Arm-5-people.jpg

Hahaha, that's funny.

In my opinion, this K98 vs. Mosin Nagant thing was decided 65 years ago.

Burn!


How much does a k98 go for anyway? I would love to have one with all the Nazi crap on it just for the collectible aspect. And an M1 garand for that matter (out of my price range).

Bhobbs
11-22-2010, 7:39 AM
I'll take both and toss in my M1.

TNP'R
11-22-2010, 8:02 AM
mosin nagant, because its cheaper. easier to arm the masses with a good cheap rifle.

Cowboy T
11-22-2010, 9:28 AM
Here's my answer:

GET 'EM BOTH! Seriously, let's not make this more complicated than it actually is. Turkish Mausers and Mosin-Nagants are both about $120. For that price, why not?? Then, pick up some cheap milsurp ammo and 5-inch-thick recoil pads for each, and have fun shootin'!

rojocorsa
11-22-2010, 11:09 AM
Винтовка Мосина, Оружия Родину!

Cowboy T
11-22-2010, 12:30 PM
Винтовка Мосина, Оружия Родину!

Umm...yeah, right on, brotha! :confused:

Dr.Mauser
11-22-2010, 12:45 PM
PPS was better than the MP40
SVT was better than the G43
Panzer was great and inspired several other designs but the T34 soldiered on for several decades as a viable tank.
Katyusha and V2 is apples and oranges. The German counterpart would be the Nebelwerfer which was inferior to the the Katyusha.
Soviets had a better sniper platform and employed more snipers, with better tactics, than any other belligerent in the war.

You do know that Panzer in German means Tank right...

Interloper
11-22-2010, 1:54 PM
You do know that Panzer in German means Tank right...

Are you sure?

Haggar85
11-22-2010, 2:21 PM
panzer means armor. panzer kampf wagen (armor battle wagon.) means tank. just to abbreviate it they call them panzer. as in English we call tanks and apc's armor for short.

my vote goes to the Mosin. less complicated and pretty idiot proof. stripping down a Mosin is easier than a Mauser IMHO. that and the sights are a bit better on the mosin, you dont have to cover up half the target.Not knocking the Mauser but in my experience Mosins are less likely give you grief when dirty or in sandy conditions. my experience with Mausers (German, Czech and Yugo.) they tend to be more on the temperamental side when dirty. the Mosin, the ak47 of bolt action rifles!

Rem222
11-22-2010, 3:19 PM
K98 vs Mosin Nagant ?

I own both. The only reason I prefer my M38 is because I have more privacy at the range as no one wants to shoot next to me...

Seriously, they are both fine rifles.

rojocorsa
11-22-2010, 3:37 PM
Umm...yeah, right on, brotha! :confused:


Yeah! I just said: Mosin, weapon of motherland.


Or I tried to anyway... :o

Dr.Mauser
11-22-2010, 3:58 PM
ok, so I own both, I LOVE my Mausers, and theyre fun as hell to shoot! but I do so enjoy my M91/59, easy to clean, loud a f^ck and a recoil like getting kicked by a horse. But I say Mauser because my Grandfather served with it and said it never let him down, and knocked down every target he aimed at.

cmaher55
11-22-2010, 4:07 PM
Good question with only one real answer.....

You can get three Hex receiver Mosins for the price of one Russian capture
K98, it used to be about 2 Mosins for one K98 but it looks like there are no more $200 RC K98's to be had anymore....

I like the turned down bolt handle on the K98 much better than the straight and short handle on the Mosin.

The sights are much better on the K98, at least for me. And the early ones are very pretty, well machined, and made.

Ammo for the Mosin is cheaper and more readily available and will be even more so in the future.

Mosins are way too cheap to pass up getting at least 2 or 3....! Won't always be the case ten years from now. Look what happend to the K98's in supply and price in the last two years....

The only real answer is in my opinion is to own at least one of each and then get yourself a Finn Mosin so the K98 and 91/30 can stay in the safe when you go to the range with your Finn time after time....! :)

ZX-10R
11-22-2010, 4:11 PM
Have both. I would love to have a K98...But then I would have to get an Enfield and Garand.

Jarhead
11-22-2010, 4:31 PM
That's an old wives tale.

another wives tale ................ the PPSh-41 / PPS were designed so they didn't need to be cleaned regularly ................. otherwise they would forget how to put them back together :) Soviet small arms were usually of simple and robust construction, designed for use by poorly educated and sometimes poorly equipped soldiers

finloq
11-22-2010, 5:25 PM
In my opinion, this K98 vs. Mosin Nagant thing was decided 65 years ago.

You can't put it any better than that.

Haggar85
11-22-2010, 5:26 PM
the ppsh had a quick change barrel, from what i have read it was not uncommon to have to change out a barrel at the end of the day in Stalingrad. you might not bother cleaning it because you are going to throw it away in another 8 hours...
still mosin or mauser, its coffee and tea. i must say if were going for ugly and crude points. i think the unmachined '42 mosins look better than the "substitute" last ditch Mausers. i would be scared to shoulder one of those.

finloq
11-22-2010, 5:27 PM
These threads are fun.

Both rifles do what they were designed to do, and new examples of each do about the same. It's always best to own some of each.

I like to compete against myself using examples of each. I'm used to both types of triggers. I think the sights of the k98 allow for better pin point accuracy. I get fewer feed problems with the Mauser magazine. The Mauser carries better on its sling. I reload for both. I find the Mosin bolt to be simpler and more rugged. I find the Mosin to be quicker at target acquisition. The Mosin carbines kick more than the Mauser rifles.

These are both project rifles. The .45 Ruger single action is for zombies.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/CDFingers/riflesrevolverreflections2.jpg


Truth be told, the Finns should be in their own category.

1941 VKT m39 @ 100 meters.


http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/CDFingers/m39target1.jpg


CDFingers

I'll go for the Ruger...no feed jams.

Anchors
11-22-2010, 8:04 PM
ok, so I own both, I LOVE my Mausers, and theyre fun as hell to shoot! but I do so enjoy my M91/59, easy to clean, loud a f^ck and a recoil like getting kicked by a horse. But I say Mauser because my Grandfather served with it and said it never let him down, and knocked down every target he aimed at.

So, was your grandfather a Nazi soldier? or from a different country?

rojocorsa
11-22-2010, 8:41 PM
Yes, I like Mosins....


But honest question here:

I'm sure most if not all the people in this thread are well-acquainted and have probably shot both rifles in question. The Mauser has that huge-*** clawed extractor that turns on the bolt body. I would assume that if you got Iraqi grade sand in that action, then you'd be done...

Dr.Mauser
11-22-2010, 10:58 PM
So, was your grandfather a Nazi soldier? or from a different country?

Yes he was...Mein opa war kein berbrecher und ich bin stolz auf ihn!

rojocorsa
11-22-2010, 11:52 PM
Please kindly tell us more about your grandfather (if you don't mind).

I'm sure I'm not the only one here that loves history. Sorry, I can't help it...

Anchors
11-23-2010, 1:50 AM
Yes he was...Mein opa war kein berbrecher und ich bin stolz auf ihn!

Via google translate "My grandpa was not a criminal and I'm proud of him".

I'm also curious, interesting.

TNP'R
11-23-2010, 7:40 AM
Yes he was...Mein opa war kein berbrecher und ich bin stolz auf ihn!

so he was a nazi? maybe not a criminal but probably a racist UT OH OPENED A CAN OF WORMS! ready for the flames :P

paul0660
11-23-2010, 7:47 AM
I would assume that if you got Iraqi grade sand in that action, then you'd be done...

Maybe, but my 98, built by Steyr, rebuilt by the Czechs including a new barrel, and then imported by the Iraqis, works fine.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/paul0660/coast076-1.jpg

Timbob55
11-23-2010, 8:22 AM
:lurk5: Let the opinions fly!

I have a M91/30 (two actually) and a M48 Mauser. Both are about the same for me. Minute of soldier at 200 yds easily.

Noonanda
11-23-2010, 8:24 AM
These threads are fun.

Both rifles do what they were designed to do, and new examples of each do about the same. It's always best to own some of each.

I like to compete against myself using examples of each. I'm used to both types of triggers. I think the sights of the k98 allow for better pin point accuracy. I get fewer feed problems with the Mauser magazine. The Mauser carries better on its sling. I reload for both. I find the Mosin bolt to be simpler and more rugged. I find the Mosin to be quicker at target acquisition. The Mosin carbines kick more than the Mauser rifles.

These are both project rifles. The .45 Ruger single action is for zombies.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/CDFingers/riflesrevolverreflections2.jpg

CDFingers

What kind of carbine is that, It has the M-91 rear sight. Is it a M-91/38? I know it aint a M-91/59 or M-38.

Interloper
11-23-2010, 9:11 AM
Wait a second. Your grandad was not just Wehrmacht but Nazi...and somehow came to the US with his service rifle? Sounds like a tall tale to me.

emcon5
11-23-2010, 9:33 AM
Wait a second. Your grandad was not just Wehrmacht but Nazi...and somehow came to the US with his service rifle? Sounds like a tall tale to me.Where did he say that? I think you are reading more into his comments than what is there.

Interloper
11-23-2010, 9:40 AM
Where did he say that? I think you are reading more into his comments than what is there.
Am I?

...But I say Mauser because my Grandfather served with it and said it never let him down, and knocked down every target he aimed at.

So, was your grandfather a Nazi soldier? or from a different country?

Yes he was...Mein opa war kein berbrecher und ich bin stolz auf ihn!

Milsurp Collector
11-23-2010, 9:44 AM
His grandfathers were in the http://freespace.virgin.net/p.crowley2/16px-Schutzstaffel_SS_SVG1.1.svg.png

Both my Grandfathers served in the Waffen SS because they knew how close those men were, the brotherhood, and bonds made in basic training didnt close close to the US's basic, they have told me, "I didnt fight for Hitler, I didnt fight for a swastika, I fought for the person next to me and for Germany"

Haggar85
11-23-2010, 10:28 AM
i know a kraut conscript, he did it because he was sent to basic in hand cuffs and a Mauser was at his back.

paul0660
11-23-2010, 11:13 AM
knocked down every target he aimed at


ah!

metalliman545
11-23-2010, 11:46 AM
panzer means armor. panzer kampf wagen (armor battle wagon.) means tank. just to abbreviate it they call them panzer. as in English we call tanks and apc's armor for short.



civilians call them "Armor" hollywood calls them "Armor" i call my M1A1 Abrams a Tank, Abrams, M1, never "Armor"
a 113(apc) is a 113(one one three)
a bradly fighting vehicle is a Bradly fighting vehicle or Brad, Bradly

my job is 19k, M1 Abrams Armor crew member.

if you wanna get technical about my job title,
its "M1 Abrams Armor"
not "M1 Abrams, Armor"

i take it as my tank is armored.

Beetle Bailey
11-23-2010, 11:58 AM
Yes, I like Mosins....


But honest question here:

I'm sure most if not all the people in this thread are well-acquainted and have probably shot both rifles in question. The Mauser has that huge-*** clawed extractor that turns on the bolt body. I would assume that if you got Iraqi grade sand in that action, then you'd be done...

I never treated my Mausers that badly as they mostly stayed at the range (only one trip to the SoCal desert). Israelis used 98k Mausers to defend themselves and didn't do too badly. Supposedly when they got the FAL, it choked on the fine sand over there so they kept the FAL in the city and re-issued the 98k to the front. But I'd agree with you that the Mosin can probably handle more sand in the action.

If the question is what rifle would I rather have if I fell in a time warp and found myself on a battlefield in 1942, I'd say Mauser.

If the question is what rifle I would buy, I would say both. I had 4 large ring Mausers in the past but ended up selling my last one in a pinch a few years ago and would love to get another 98k to replace the one I sold.

Cowboy T
11-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Again...GET BOTH and be done with it! Geez.... I should've grabbed one of those cheap Turkish Mausers when they were on sale at the show along with the Mosin. But at the time, I didn't know very much about the old mulsurp rifles. Now I'm much better educated.

Dr.Mauser
11-23-2010, 12:42 PM
My grandfather was in the 1st SS LAH and served for the most part in the East, then transfered to train as an officer for the 12th SS HJ where after was sent to the west just in time for the Normandy campaign, he served with Kurt Meyer, and HATED the naval shelling, said he almost went crazy from the bombardment, after which he was sent back to germany with his unit to refit and then sent to help with the push that turned into the battle of the bulge, he was then sent back to the what was left of the crumbling eastern front near hungry, his unit was one of the first to retreat not wanting to be captured by the soviets and surrendered to the US troops, on their march back he and his unit not wanting to fight anymore or be robbed by their captures stashed their belongings and weapons under a barn in the feed storing area, after he release in the early late 40' he went back and retrieved his items and some of the belongings of others and returned them to their owners, while in the POW camps he heard about the concentration camps and what was left of Germany, he gained an even greater burning hatred for Hitler and the nazi party. In fact while in the Normandy campaign he removed the Swastika from his shoulder eagle patch on his sleeve, after his release and the looks and whispers where he was living my grandparents decided to leave Germany and come to the US. He took his weapons apart and shipped them to his brother in the US before moving, they moved to salt lake city, he retrieved his stuff from his brother and gave me his rifle when I graduated HS. Over the years whth everything that has come out about the Nazis hes become even more hateful of Hitler, and the Nazi party and HATES the fact that his peers look at his as a War Criminal, he served as a soldier, not a butcher, or executioner. Im proud of his service, not of the Nazi party or their crimes against humanity....I was typing fast hope I got everything in there

Fate
11-23-2010, 2:21 PM
Fascinating story.

I've owned and shot both K98s and Mosins. Originally, I had a bias towards the Mauser. That was dispelled after many hours of trigger time. I now would choose the M91/30 over a K98. More rugged (will work in poorer conditions). Better sights. Lighter to carry. Better magazine design.

The only area where the Mauser is better than a M91/30 is putting on/taking off the safety. Though the M91/30's safety is a thousand times safer (and really not hard to operate when you use the "trick.")

Haggar85
11-23-2010, 3:02 PM
civilians call them "Armor" hollywood calls them "Armor" i call my M1A1 Abrams a Tank, Abrams, M1, never "Armor"
a 113(apc) is a 113(one one three)
a bradly fighting vehicle is a Bradly fighting vehicle or Brad, Bradly

my job is 19k, M1 Abrams Armor crew member.

if you wanna get technical about my job title,
its "M1 Abrams Armor"
not "M1 Abrams, Armor"

i take it as my tank is armored.

no disrespect intended, i am a civilian and a plastic model builder. usually in regards to models and what not the term armor is used. i belong to armorama (dot) com modeling site. I will refrain from using that term in relation to actual tanks and apc's. your tank is a tank and will not be called armor by me. :notworthy:

Interesting about how he went back and got is equipment. i know post war things were very hazy in relation to owning firearms in Germany but glad he could get his old war horse out from under the barn or feed storage.
my German infantry man (regular army not ss.)i know, he was conscripted ( arrested ) at 16, sent to the eastern front and was near Moscow. he was injured when he got a hernia from trying to dig a foxhole in the frozen ground during a "Stalins organ." katyusha bombardment. he was sent home on a train shortly before the rest of his army group was encircled. he was transfered to Greece and then Italy where his unit surrendered intact to US and brit forces.
in the 50's tried to become a cop but due to his "affiliation" with the late unpleasantness he had to go through fiery hoops just to become a beat cop.other people could become a cop easier. he was cool and not some nut case or a believer, he later went back to Russia to make peace with things, more of a spiritual thing i guess. hell of a thing i guess, trying to just move on with life when others put a stain on you.

mosinnagantm9130
11-23-2010, 3:33 PM
hell of a thing i guess, trying to just move on with life when others put a stain on you.

That attitude still exists today, to some extent. A person mentions they have a relative that fought for Germany, people automatically assume that person's relative is a Nazi and a war criminal.

I'd imagine the vast majority of Germans at the time were neither.

Dr.Mauser
11-23-2010, 5:12 PM
Thats what my Opa said! He said when they heard about the concentration camps it made they sick to think that Germans would do that and they couldnt believe it. And hes beaten into my the Difference between the Waffen SS, the SS and SD, and the Einsatzgruppen. Because he wore the SS symbol on his collar he and thousands upon thousands of other have been criminalized. They were simply soldiers, the ELITE of the ELITE, im not saying their werent tyrants among them, but for the most part they joined to be part of something greater....sorry this is a touchy subject for me, especially the fact that my grandfather fought just as hard as any other soldier and has never received a single dollar because he was Waffen SS.

Interloper
11-23-2010, 5:30 PM
That attitude still exists today, to some extent. A person mentions they have a relative that fought for Germany, people automatically assume that person's relative is a Nazi and a war criminal.

I'd imagine the vast majority of Germans at the time were neither.

So true.
A friend of mine's dad fought on the side of the Germans in Serbia. Basically, it came down to fighting for the Soviets or the Germans. They already knew how bad the Soviets were...I can't say it would have chosen differently myself.

classicist
11-23-2010, 9:31 PM
My Mosins and my K98 all seem to be about 3 MOA rifles with me shooting - I am not a fantastic shot.

I like the sights on the Mosins better.

The K98 fit and finish is much better. It also is heftier.

The stock design for the K98 is more comfortable for me. The Mosin forces me to hold my right elbow out at a right angle to my body.

The rounds are comparable in power, both more than capable of doing what they're intended to do. The Mosins being lighter, they kick harder. I prefer loading the rimless 8mm rounds.

The bolt in the Mosin seems more complicated at first glance, but is, with practice, easier to take apart. Also firing pin protrusion is adjustable with the Mosin bolt. I have had to file down parts of the bolt to get the Mauser pin within spec.

I keep my rifles clean, so I have no idea which is more functional when dirty.

I prefer the straight bolt handle of the Mosin to the bent handle of the Mauser. I can more easily apply torque to a straight handle.

The sling on the Mauser is particularly annoying as it passes through the stock where i like to rest my fingers.

The bayonet for the Mauser seems more practical all around than any of the Mosin bayonets. But I never had to use one when it counts.

The double stack magazine of the Mauser is more elegant, but the ease of opening the floorplate on the Mosin makes it easier to unload.

The safety on the Mauser is much more practical than that of the Mosin

All said, both were designed to serve a similar purpose in the late 19th century. They both had long careers, as did both rounds. Both have their merits and problems. I don't know which I would prefer to carry in combat (not that I ever have or hope to be).

The biggest problem with the Mosin for me is the stock design. The biggest problem with the Mauser for me is the sight design.

The Mosin has seen many model variations which made it relevant to the Russians/Soviets for many purposes for many years. It also seems a cheaper to produce rifle. The Mauser was a quality piece which proved to be so well designed that it was copied in the 1903 and almost every modern hunting rifle.

I wouldn't say that the rifles themselves determined the outcome of WW2. Holding either one certainly makes me feel a great deal of empathy to those who carried them.

Edit: Oh yeah, the trigger on the Mosin is much worse than that of the K98

rojocorsa
11-23-2010, 10:58 PM
Thanks for sharing, Dr. Mauser.

Was that him in your previous avatar?

freonr22
11-23-2010, 11:02 PM
btw, are the teen mauser kar98 ie 1916 less valuable than say a 1942

mosinnagantm9130
11-23-2010, 11:11 PM
btw, are the teen mauser kar98 ie 1916 less valuable than say a 1942

That depends on a lot of factors.

You wouldn't happen to have one, would ya?:D

freonr22
11-23-2010, 11:18 PM
its not for sale :) its a pretty sporter i wanna get drilled and tapped. i believe in 30-06

mosinnagantm9130
11-23-2010, 11:40 PM
its not for sale :) its a pretty sporter i wanna get drilled and tapped. i believe in 30-06

Start a new topic and post up some pics!!

freonr22
11-23-2010, 11:49 PM
done! In the proper forum too :)
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5345995

CDFingers
11-24-2010, 3:49 AM
Noonanda

asks what kind of Mosin is it in the pic of my k98, Ruger Vaquero, and this rifle in this thread.

It is a project made from a cut off barreled receiver I got at a gun show for $5. The title of the thread below is "I am Bubba." So, I'm looking at this as a restoration. My only other choice was to leave it leaning against the wall.

This thread leads to the story of this restoration. Remember: nothing is more expensive than a $5 project gun you pick up at a gun show...

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=82982

CDFingers

Dr.Mauser
11-24-2010, 12:22 PM
Thanks for sharing, Dr. Mauser.

Was that him in your previous avatar?

no sir, that was a member of the 1st SS LAH during the Battle of the Bulge with an M1 Carbine, I dont have any pics of him online, I can see if my opa will send me some though. For being 92 hes really computer savvy lol

Noonanda
11-24-2010, 3:18 PM
Noonanda

asks what kind of Mosin is it in the pic of my k98, Ruger Vaquero, and this rifle in this thread.

It is a project made from a cut off barreled receiver I got at a gun show for $5. The title of the thread below is "I am Bubba." So, I'm looking at this as a restoration. My only other choice was to leave it leaning against the wall.

This thread leads to the story of this restoration. Remember: nothing is more expensive than a $5 project gun you pick up at a gun show...

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=82982

CDFingers

very nice salvage and restoration.

Springfield45
11-24-2010, 4:29 PM
I think the Mauser is a better rifle all around compared to the Mosin Nagant. It is more accurate in my opinion and shorter than the 91/30,s. Mosin Nagants however are beautiful in a cheap rugged simple all business kind of way.

Dr.Mauser
11-24-2010, 6:05 PM
My Grandfather once compared a K98 to a precision made swiss watch and the Mosin Nagant to a watch from a nickel machine. And from the stories hes told me, I'd take the K98....ok, Lets take this a step farther...... G-43 vs SVT-40 :D

mosinnagantm9130
11-24-2010, 6:49 PM
Lets take this a step farther...... G-43 vs SVT-40 :D

I've never actually handled a SVT, so I can't comment on that.

However, my uncle has a G43 so I do have a little experience there. I like the G43, it feels well-balanced and the sights are much more user friendly than the K98 IMO.

In batle conditions, I think I'd take the SVT, only because the G43 has an overpowered gas system, and that can lead to many bad things. Otherwise, I like the G43 better.

cplbuck
11-24-2010, 6:52 PM
I have both, an M44 and Yugo M24/47. I prefer the mauser action over the Mosin but when shooting them I like the Mosin. The Mosin has a massive kick as does the Mauser however, not only does the Mauser kick, it jumps up and smacks my cheek. I wanted a K98 but could not find a cheap one. I didn't want a russian capture. I can shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yards and hit the furthest red metal targets at Angeles with both of them. Both are deadly accurate. I'd trade the Yugo for a K98 anytime. My buddy has one and that one has an even better action than my Yugo. But, if push came to shove and i had to decide between one or the other, I'd take the K98. This is based only on the history of the rifle and looks. I don't have any facts to base my choice on, just personal preference.

rojocorsa
11-24-2010, 7:22 PM
The Mausers I've seen, I've been not too impressed with their triggers "stock." I'm certain that they could be something else with a good trigger job, but out of the box, I think the M-1 has a better trigger.

The vintovka's trigger isn't as bad at you'd think. But that's my opinion, YMMV.

cmaher55
11-24-2010, 7:54 PM
In the end I would say you got three more years to get a $89 dollar Mosin........ After that they are all gone and will be $200 to $300 dollars believe it or not. K98's will be $400 at least for an RC by then..... Just my opinion. I'm gonna get a few more Hex Mosins while I can if I don't get laid off in the next few months....! Chris

Interloper
11-24-2010, 9:29 PM
My Grandfather once compared a K98 to a precision made swiss watch and the Mosin Nagant to a watch from a nickel machine. And from the stories hes told me, I'd take the K98....ok, Lets take this a step farther...... G-43 vs SVT-40 :D

I think the G43 is pretty neat. I would love to own one.
If you compare the actual service history of the G43 and the SVT, however, you see that the G43 was merely a footnote in history while the SVT was a tried and true battle rifle.

Super Chicken
11-24-2010, 10:04 PM
I don't own a Mosin yet so my vote is for the K98k.

I do have a question for the modern red hordes out there(j/K) Are real WW2 Russian chargers any good? What I mean is are they as tough to use as some of the posts I have seen on youtube. Lets say we flash back to '43 with mortars raining down, MG42's making the tearing linoleum sound, and your Comrades bleeding out all around, are you doing the whole lift up the last round by the nose and shake the ammo as you push them into the magazine thing?

rojocorsa
11-25-2010, 12:54 AM
I'm interested to know whether Mosin clips really work or not. I do like how they keep your bullets in a neat little bundle. But if they don't work worth a damn, I won't acquire any.

Moress
11-25-2010, 3:18 AM
I'm interested to know whether Mosin clips really work or not. I do like how they keep your bullets in a neat little bundle. But if they don't work worth a damn, I won't acquire any.

I get the cheapo ones off Ebay and they work like a charm. It's weird 'cause everyone keeps telling me that the reproduction clips aren't worth a damn, but I must be really lucky 'cause they hold all the rounds just fine and they feed flawlessly. Just make sure when you feed them, do so by placing your thumb on the base of the casing, and have your index finger kind of tilt the nose of the bullet up, then push down with your tumb (Careful not to scrap your thumb on the clip). My SKS clips on the other hand are a PITA... They feed flawlessly, but the rounds always come loose....

As for the K98 vs MN, well thats kind of tough for me. I've only shot a MN 91/30, and I love mine. It's the most accurate rifle I own, I'd feel comfortable enough to take it hunting with me. The rifle is so simple, it's absolutely ridiculous. Has awsome history, nearly indestructable, and just plain fun to shoot. Plus it costs way less then the K98. :)

Another thing i like about the MN is someday when I expand my colection some more, I owuld like to add a PSL/Dragunov and they both use the same cartridge, as do many other Soviet era weapons (SVT anyone?? :D ). I can't think of any rifles off the top of my head that use 8mm Mauser other then the K98.

rojocorsa
11-25-2010, 10:03 AM
Just be sure to use light ball on that PSL. ;)

paul0660
11-25-2010, 10:11 AM
My Grandfather once compared a K98 to a precision made swiss watch and the Mosin Nagant to a watch from a nickel machine.

I bet he is still frosted about losing, too.

CDFingers
11-26-2010, 3:20 AM
Mosin clips:

I think it's all in the wrist, as I've never had a problem. I just push directly down with my thumb--not a little to the rear nor a little to the front. Since no one is trying to shoot me, I sort of take my time a tad.

CDFingers

Dr.Mauser
11-26-2010, 3:16 PM
I bet he is still frosted about losing, too.

Hes actually happy they lost, he was sick of his country being destroyed and years of fighting for a cause he didint care about, he said he's glad the war ended when it did, but wishes the Americans wouldve beat the soviets to Berlin.

tankerman
11-26-2010, 9:05 PM
K98 best bolt action ever built. Mauser = original.
Mauser sold all over world....freely

Moisin, ugliest bolt action ever built. Moisin = knock-off.
Moisin, used by USSR and few other countries, mostly forced to accept as weapon.

Dr.Mauser
11-26-2010, 9:30 PM
lol "forced to accept as weapon" I liked that haha, but you have a point about the bolt action design.

Datamancer
11-27-2010, 1:16 AM
I'm interested to know whether Mosin clips really work or not. I do like how they keep your bullets in a neat little bundle. But if they don't work worth a damn, I won't acquire any.

They actually work really well if you load them correctly in the first place. The trick is to get the rounds all laid in the clip with the rims underlapping so they don't rimlock in the rifle. A properly loaded clip will have the top round perfectly perpendicular to the clip and the rest of the rounds will angle slightly upward toward the first.

http://www.datamancer.net/pics/goodclip.jpg

The actual milsurp clips are so much better than the reproductions mainly because they keep a tighter grip on the rounds and keep them in this configuration. The reproduction clips tend to have a sloppy hold on the rounds and they just flop all over the place, like so...

http://www.datamancer.net/pics/badclip.jpg

Granted, no matter how a clip is loaded, you can still manage to slam them in there most of the time if you use enough force, but to get a nice, smooth slide you need to load the clip properly, install it in the right direction, and tip the first round up slightly, before pushing down with your thumb near the rear of the first round.

-~D~-

Dr.Mauser
11-27-2010, 7:58 AM
Thats for a Mosin? I've never seen strippers like that before

Sailormilan2
11-27-2010, 8:36 AM
The saying is, "The Germans went to war with a Hunting rifle. The Americans went to war with a Target rifle. The Brits went to war with a Battle rifle."
The estimates are that there were over 100 million Mausers made since Paul Mauser designed it. I am assuming that is an estimate done by all manufacturors. That is a record kind of hard to beat.

Regarding the minor discussion on the "Panzer". The middle term panzer kampf wagens(Tanks), those being the Mk III and the Mk IV certainlly did inspire other designs in certain areas. They were the first to come out with the 5 man crew, with a dedicated radio man and a dedicated tank commander. Also with internal electronic intercoms as well as tank to tank radio.
They were behind in terms of speed, armor, and armament. Actually inferior in many respects to their oponents. The Panther was superior to the original T-34, but about equal to the later ones. The Panther was the tank the Tiger should have been.

Datamancer
11-27-2010, 1:14 PM
Thats for a Mosin? I've never seen strippers like that before

Yeah the top one is..vintage Polish? I think, and the bottom one is an ebay "made in China" cheapo clip.

-~D~-

hollowpoint67
11-27-2010, 5:43 PM
I think you guys are omitting the fact that the only reason the mosin is so popular right now is because the germans were defeated so production of the K98 stopped while mosins continued to be made.

German weapons were superior. StG44 anyone?

K98 > Mosin any day of the week.

better quality, better actions, and **** it just looks damn sexier.

tankerman
11-27-2010, 6:41 PM
Let's back up a bit......The Moisin is popular because it's cheap. Most Moisins are recent additions to the US milsurp market. There are still plenty stock piled to sell.

Mausers were 'the' milsurp for the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and much of the 90's until supplies started drying up after about 50 years.

I think you guys are omitting the fact that the only reason the mosin is so popular right now is because the germans were defeated so production of the K98 stopped while mosins continued to be made.

German weapons were superior. StG44 anyone?

K98 > Mosin any day of the week.

better quality, better actions, and **** it just looks damn sexier.

metalliman545
11-28-2010, 2:37 AM
its funny you say "he didnt know" as far as i know concentration camps exsisted in 1933. the laws against jews and other minorities came into power long before the war started. js. thers is no way he "couldnt have known"

Reductio
11-28-2010, 3:04 AM
its funny you say "he didnt know" as far as i know concentration camps exsisted in 1933. the laws against jews and other minorities came into power long before the war started. js. thers is no way he "couldnt have known"

Most people didn't understand the scope of what was going on, it wasn't abnormal at all.

metalliman545
11-28-2010, 4:44 AM
Most people didn't understand the scope of what was going on, it wasn't abnormal at all.

well lets take a look at it,
retards were euthanized
jews and "aryans" werent allowed to marry
"half jews" had to be sterlized
jews and other "sub humans" were put into centralized neighborhoods
jewish businesses were ransacked

yea kinda hard to not understand what was going on.
not to mention, they fought for germany and her ideals? well not her ideals, hitlers ideals. anyone who served during those times had a choice, they were not defending germany at all, they were in other peoples countries ruining them. they got their asses handed to them. they deserved everything they had coming. thank god the russians got there before we did. and like i told my buddy in my platoon, pretty funny that this master race, with the best technology got destroyed by all these "sub human" countries.

Interloper
11-28-2010, 9:32 AM
Most people didn't understand the scope of what was going on, it wasn't abnormal at all.

This guy wasn't "most people". He was SS.

rojocorsa
11-28-2010, 9:58 AM
I got this feeling that this thread is about to get awkward.


Let's play a new game.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=367502

Dr.Mauser
11-28-2010, 11:19 AM
And this is why my grandfather left Germany. He was on the front lines from 1939 until 1945 with only 15 days a year for home leave if he was lucky! He joined his country's most elite fighting force in order to fight for HIS beloved Germany, not for any Ideal and certainly not Hitler's Ideal. He removed the swastikas from his uniform (I know this because I have it) far before the end ever came because he was sick of war, of hitler, and of watching his boys die. The Germany people were told that the Jews were being 'Relocated' they didnt know what it meant, where they were sent and would be in trouble for asking or talking about it. My grandfather has told me he has nothing but respect for the Soviet, British, Canadian, and American soldiers he fought against, he said they were soldiers fighting the same war as he, had they not been shooting at each other, the men he was fighting couldve been close friend, he resected the hell out of the US GI's above anyone, his reasoning was that it was a country that hadnt been directly attacked by Germany, but sent their young boys half way across the world to fight for something greater than themselves and in a continent that needed help. And for you to say that pisses me off. You havent sat year after year and hour upon hour and spoken with this man! He told me his unit when capturing POWs would take them back to the barracks have a toast and then a couple of shots with them joke around with them for a while and then send them on their. He told me he was reprimanded several times for not carrying out orders he felt werent right, I'm not sure I need to ask him but I believe they took away his platoon at one point. He was a soldier and gentlemen to those he came into contact with, defiantly not a war criminal or a butcher.

Bizcuits
11-28-2010, 11:28 AM
I'd rather have an m1 garand :)

Fate
11-28-2010, 7:59 PM
They actually work really well if you load them correctly in the first place. The trick is to get the rounds all laid in the clip with the rims underlapping so they don't rimlock in the rifle. A properly loaded clip will have the top round perfectly perpendicular to the clip and the rest of the rounds will angle slightly upward toward the first.

http://www.datamancer.net/pics/goodclip.jpg

The actual milsurp clips are so much better than the reproductions mainly because they keep a tighter grip on the rounds and keep them in this configuration. The reproduction clips tend to have a sloppy hold on the rounds and they just flop all over the place, like so...

http://www.datamancer.net/pics/badclip.jpg

Granted, no matter how a clip is loaded, you can still manage to slam them in there most of the time if you use enough force, but to get a nice, smooth slide you need to load the clip properly, install it in the right direction, and tip the first round up slightly, before pushing down with your thumb near the rear of the first round.

-~D~-

Mosins are NOT Enfields. Staggering the round is not needed if your rifle's interrupter is working properly. Rounds were not staggered during production, nor in the field.

Also, true Russian Izhevesk-marked stripper clips do not need technique to load fast and jam-free. No fingertip pulling up the nose of the round nonsense. Just push at the base and they're in. I also have some "31" marked, Chinese ones that perform the same.

Spiggy
11-28-2010, 8:35 PM
I'd rather have an m1 garand :)

You had to throw the Garand wrench into the argument, didn't ya? :D

metalliman545
11-29-2010, 4:49 AM
And this is why my grandfather left Germany. He was on the front lines from 1939 until 1945 with only 15 days a year for home leave if he was lucky! He joined his country's most elite fighting force in order to fight for HIS beloved Germany, not for any Ideal and certainly not Hitler's Ideal. He removed the swastikas from his uniform (I know this because I have it) far before the end ever came because he was sick of war, of hitler, and of watching his boys die. The Germany people were told that the Jews were being 'Relocated' they didnt know what it meant, where they were sent and would be in trouble for asking or talking about it. My grandfather has told me he has nothing but respect for the Soviet, British, Canadian, and American soldiers he fought against, he said they were soldiers fighting the same war as he, had they not been shooting at each other, the men he was fighting couldve been close friend, he resected the hell out of the US GI's above anyone, his reasoning was that it was a country that hadnt been directly attacked by Germany, but sent their young boys half way across the world to fight for something greater than themselves and in a continent that needed help. And for you to say that pisses me off. You havent sat year after year and hour upon hour and spoken with this man! He told me his unit when capturing POWs would take them back to the barracks have a toast and then a couple of shots with them joke around with them for a while and then send them on their. He told me he was reprimanded several times for not carrying out orders he felt werent right, I'm not sure I need to ask him but I believe they took away his platoon at one point. He was a soldier and gentlemen to those he came into contact with, defiantly not a war criminal or a butcher.


people change. thats a given, but it doesnt change the fact who and what they fought for.

all these IA, SOI, and Freedom fighters(iraqi army, Sons Of Iraq)that have killed our guys, all these insurgents and terrorists
they could repent, hell throw away their muslum beliefs and convert to christianity, and judaism, buddahism, w/e they wanted, it still doesnt change the fact what they fought, and did, who they killed, who they supported
i will never respect them, never give them any quarter. the only reason we "protect" those scum when captured is because we are told to do so.

does a murderer deserve forgiveness? sure. are his crimes forgotten? no.
(not calling your grandfather a murderer) in war things happen. people do things.

and he had respect for the GIs because we fought for something greater, we fought, we fought for the little guy. we saw a big bully and took the fight to them. and you know what? we F$#%^# them the hell up.


btw the nuremburg laws were passed in 1935. 4 years before the war. i bet he was pretty familiar with them. and well heres just a little history lesson

Marriages between Jews and subjects of the state of Germany or related bloods is forbidden. Marriages nevertheless concluded are invalid, even if concluded abroad to circumvent this law'.
Extramarital intercourse between Jews and those of Germany or related blood is forbidden.
Jews may not employ in their households female subjects of German or related blood who are under 45 years old.

in 1938 these laws were passed 1 year before war
Regulation for the Elimination of the Jews from the Economic Life of Germany (11-12-38) Jews are forbidden to operate retail stores, mail order houses or sales agencies, or to practice a craft. They cannot offer for sale goods or services, to advertise these or to accept orders at markets, fairs and exhibitions of all sorts.
2. Jews are forbidden to ride streetcars, go to the theater, play sports, go to the parks, practice medicine, law, farming, and can only walk on certain streets. Jews must shop only at certain stores during certain hours, and Jewish children can attend Jewish schools only.
In addition to the above laws, in 1939, Jews were ordered to turn in their radio sets. They were forbidden to leave their homes except for a few hours each day. Jews were forced to deposit all their money in banks, then forbidden to take their money out. The money was confiscated by the Nazis. Telephones were taken away.
A Jew cannot be a Reich citizen. He has no voting rights in political matters. He cannot occupy a public office.
A Jew is a person descended from at least three grandparents who are full Jews.
A Mischling is considered a Jew if he is descended from two full Jewish grandparents; who was a member of the Jewish Religious Community; who was married to a Jew; who was born from a lineage with a Jew or as the result of extramarital intercourse with a Jew

all before the war, youd have to be pretty oblivious to not notice that these were wrong.

hybridatsun350
11-29-2010, 8:57 AM
Personally, I would have to pick the Mauser between the two. I love Mosins and they are as rugged as anything, but the Mauser is an awesome rifle in its own right and a decent battle rifle to boot! However, if we're talking bolt-action battle rifles then the Enfield takes the win.

Mosins are NOT Enfields. Staggering the round is not needed if your rifle's interrupter is working properly. Rounds were not staggered during production, nor in the field.

Also, true Russian Izhevesk-marked stripper clips do not need technique to load fast and jam-free. No fingertip pulling up the nose of the round nonsense. Just push at the base and they're in. I also have some "31" marked, Chinese ones that perform the same.

Exactly what I was going to say. The Mosins have an interruptor that prevents rim-locking. It's a great design and probably saved countless soldiers lives.

mosinnagantm9130
11-29-2010, 12:18 PM
Seriously guys? We were having an informed debate about the K98 vs. the mosin, and it's devolved into debating about Dr. Mauser's grandfather?

Classy, real classy.

rojocorsa
11-29-2010, 12:37 PM
Seriously guys? We were having an informed debate about the K98 vs. the mosin, and it's devolved into debating about Dr. Mauser's grandfather?

Classy, real classy.


Agreed.

Reductio
11-29-2010, 1:25 PM
Seriously guys? We were having an informed debate about the K98 vs. the mosin, and it's devolved into debating about Dr. Mauser's grandfather?

Classy, real classy.

+2, pathetic really...


ANYHOW: I still like my Mosins. :p

Interloper
11-29-2010, 2:02 PM
Seriously guys? We were having an informed debate about the K98 vs. the mosin, and it's devolved into debating about Dr. Mauser's grandfather?

Classy, real classy.

Well, it is an interesting story.

Cowboy T
11-29-2010, 2:28 PM
Back to topic:

Again, I say, get both. Both can be had inexpensively, the ammo's available, they're fun, and good ones are very accurate even to longer ranges. What's not to like about either?

cmaynes
11-29-2010, 2:28 PM
I have a M38 I would trade for a KAR98K.....

I will even throw in a few hundred rounds of ammo.....

rojocorsa
11-29-2010, 2:49 PM
I have a M38 I would trade for a KAR98K.....

I will even throw in a few hundred rounds of ammo.....

Too bad I had to scrap mine for parts...or else I might have had to take you up on that offer. :(

Dr.Mauser
11-29-2010, 9:42 PM
Too bad I had to scrap mine for parts...or else I might have had to take you up on that offer. :(

+1, but the only K98 I have left is my Grandfathers, I sold the others last year to get some money together for my M1 Carbines, which I sold 2 months later for an engagement ring....I WISH I would have NEVER done that.......

Interloper
11-30-2010, 6:49 AM
+1, but the only K98 I have left is my Grandfathers, I sold the others last year to get some money together for my M1 Carbines, which I sold 2 months later for an engagement ring....I WISH I would have NEVER done that.......

Yeah, you and your carbines already had the kind of perfect love that lasts a lifetime and you had to mess that up by bringing a woman into the picture. :p

Dr.Mauser
11-30-2010, 10:05 PM
Yeah, you and your carbines already had the kind of perfect love that lasts a lifetime and you had to mess that up by bringing a woman into the picture. :p

HAHAH!!!!!! OMG truly hilarious!!!