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View Full Version : Possible way for quasi MG in CA?


onley11
06-26-2006, 11:50 PM
Ok, I'm just throwing this out for discussion.

I don't care to shoot any MGs, I've had my fill, thanks.

But for folks who have never had the pleasure.

The way you train in the military is with a real gun and blanks with a blank firing adaptor. Lets blank rounds function the action by mostly blocking off the bore. Some older guns had permanent plugs (m1 garands) for this purpose for training guns/firing parties at funerals. Most of the fun of a MG is just shooting it, you don't really care about what you're hitting.

If you demilled a m60/saw/etc., and made it to permanently only fire blank ammo,(welded the barrel to the reciever and welded the barrel closed and side vented it, like a blank firing adaptor) how would that be different than a starter gun, and could you have it in California, and rent it out for use at a "range" for people who have never had the opportunity to rock and roll.

Yes, I do realize this is silly, but OLL questions all the time, about the same thing over and over are frying my brain.

bwiese
06-27-2006, 12:25 AM
I think it'd have to be rendered into a 'nongun'.

Starter guns, etc are nonguns. It's perfectly legal to have a full-auto starter gun ;)

adamsreeftank
06-27-2006, 12:39 PM
I understand what you are saying, but what's the fun of blasting away if things arent getting destroyed downrange.

That would also be a very expensive blank-firing device. I'm sure there are lots of these in the movie business.

Stanze
06-27-2006, 12:51 PM
Buy airsoft guns for your legal full-auto jollies!

Specially Gas blow back pistols and AEG long guns.:cool:

The GBB pistols sound like suppressed firearms(I've shot a real-steel MP5SD courtesy of Tim of La France Specialties) and will tear up a soda can from 25 yards no problemo!

The modded AEGs will take out teeth and break skin at close range. Be careful.

onley11
06-27-2006, 3:17 PM
Ok stanze, what's your 858 handle?

Yeah, I've got a:
m4 aeg @400 fps
a 8mm bren at 420
a gas sniper at 600
a glock 18 gbb
some little colt 25 nbb's for hostage situations,
and my nerf rpg is almost made.
(to be clear, these are all non-gun airsoft guns, legal as can be)

And of course I can actually shoot them at my friends.:)

Airsoft guns can be a riot, but most "shooters" have only seen the $50 Jungletoy specials.:rolleyes:

And by the way, hollywood has started using guns in movies. I remember a scene in one of the batman movies where you can see the gas port in the bottom of a magazine.

I took my bren ten into the gun shop I used to work for, looking for a good tactical holster, and I had trouble convincing the owner it wasn't real. (no smart comments re any orange paint, we'll just say it was there for the sake of not "confessing")

grammaton76
06-27-2006, 3:49 PM
For FA goodness, I'd use the Drozt. It fires regular American steel BB's, and I believe it only costs $200ish.

That having been said, airsoft wise I do have the Maverick 88 bullpup shotgun firing 4 rounds/pump, as well as a gas driven Walther PPK and a gas driven select fire Auto-9 (from Robocop). Just found the laser mount for it last night, actually.

Bought all this stuff back in Japan when I was a foreign exchange student. :)

onley11
06-27-2006, 4:05 PM
Ah, but the drozd(?sp) only has a 6 rd burst, I'm guessing for the co2 to build up pressure again. Could be cool for an anti feline device. I wish I could find one of the old full auto bb guns that ran off freon, those little monsters were cool.

You can also make cloud or vortex f/a bb guns pretty easy, but you have to have a compressor or a lot of propane handy.:)

Back on topic, so I could make a f/a starter gun?

There are plans for homemade full auto 22's on line, you could make a blowback open bolt 22 blank only gun with a plugged barrel, that should be pretty doable. Nice and loud. Hmmm.... Maybe some day when I get a mill and lathe. Or a chicom all in one machine. Probably cheaper to destory a 10/22, but that's not cool, maybe use an already destroyed 10/22 and...

Wait a minute. I don't care. Back to making my nerf rpg launcher.:D

grammaton76
06-27-2006, 4:24 PM
Ah, but the drozd(?sp) only has a 6 rd burst, I'm guessing for the co2 to build up pressure again. Could be cool for an anti feline device. I wish I could find one of the old full auto bb guns that ran off freon, those little monsters were cool.

You do have to pull it every six shots or so, but as the guy at the Del Mar fair demonstrates, once you get used to the timing you really can't hear the difference between strings of 6rd bursts and true FA out of the thing.

You can also make cloud or vortex f/a bb guns pretty easy, but you have to have a compressor or a lot of propane handy.:)

Hmm, sounds like a new plot idea for King of the Hill: Dale discovers how to make an FA BB gun using Hank's propane, and proceeds to demolish several houses with FA fire trying to use it in place of pesticide...

JPglee1
06-27-2006, 4:26 PM
There are plans for homemade full auto 22's on line, you could make a blowback open bolt 22 blank only gun with a plugged barrel, that should be pretty doable. Nice and loud. Hmmm.... Maybe some day when I get a mill and lathe. Or a chicom all in one machine. Probably cheaper to destory a 10/22, but that's not cool, maybe use an already destroyed 10/22 and...



Don't try it :)

To do what you want to do, you need to engineer the mechanism from un machined materials and make it specifically for your purpouse. If you were to try and make a "non gun" F/A blank firing replica from a demilled MG kit, you would be in violation of the NFA, unless you took some incredibly complicated steps to make it in no way able to be converted back to a gun. These include making the bolt run the opposite direction, using nylon barstock to make the bolt, using internal receiver dimensions no where near original specs, etc...

I looked into this already, the big thing is if it uses REAL blanks, that can chamber in a REAL gun, its gonna be hard to do legally.

Now if you use those 8mm blank cartridges it would be a lot easier....


Even easier yet would be to just buy one already built...


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.asp?Cat=900&Timeframe=0&Sort=0&Page=6&Items=50

http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/051154000/51154719/pix585149718.jpg
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=51154719
$400 for an M16 blank fire replica, uses 8mm PPC shells...

http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/051154000/51154840/pix585284390.jpg
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=51154840
$350 for M3A1 grease gun replica.


Much cheaper than buying a demilled kit and spending weeks of time engineering a blank gun that WONT get you sent to Levinworth hahaha.



JP

xenophobe
06-27-2006, 4:27 PM
Most movie 'blank firing guns' are registered machine guns. An M60 that has been blank adapted could still be easily converted back to fire ammunition.

A full auto fire control group is considered a machine gun, even if it isn't installed into a receiver.

Making a full auto blank firing non-gun is pretty laborous... you need to find a 07 who will make you one, submit it to the ATF for review, and probably have to go through a series of trial-and-error if they would even allow this to be done.

Some firearms *may* be permanently modified to no fire a cartridge, but many machine guns could be readily restored one way or another. A lot of the reenactors use gas or O2 powered MGs... because they're much more cost effective...

Good luck...

JPglee1
06-27-2006, 4:32 PM
A full auto fire control group is considered a machine gun, even if it isn't installed into a receiver.
.


Not true :D

If you have an AR-15 and the M16 fire control group, THATs a MG, because there is a readily available drop in conversion device for the AR-15.

Simply possessing an M16 FCG is not illegal if you don't own an AR-15 also.

Similarly, since there is no "drop in auto sear" for an AK (well there is, but its not common)you CAN possess the F/A parts and a semi auto AK as long as your S/A doesn't have the 3rd hole and/or a notched right side rail.

If ALL FCGs were illegal to own, every surplus demilled parts kit available would be a felony to own/buy...



But otherwise, yah yer post is spot on... blank guns are hard to deal with, especially when using demilled parts.


JP

onley11
06-27-2006, 9:33 PM
Guess I'll just keep using airsoft guns.:D

In the Marines they use a propane powered mg simulator in infiltration courses so you don't pull a "Jarhead" and get you damn fool head blown off. But instead of using propane as an enviromentally friendly compessed gas to shoot a projectile, they actually have a sparker in a chamber to make a loud rat a tat tat.

They make airsoft SAWs and M60s too.

This was all hypothetical anyway, I have no real desire to do this, but the "can I add _____ to my unlisted lower" or "I can't use the search button" threads are getting old. Just trying to think about something else while waiting for them to list the lowers in two weeks.:D Gimme a minute and I'll think up something else to write about.

five.five-six
06-27-2006, 10:21 PM
Don't try it :)

To do what you want to do, you need to engineer the mechanism from un machined materials and make it specifically for your purpouse. If you were to try and make a "non gun" F/A blank firing replica from a demilled MG kit, you would be in violation of the NFA, unless you took some incredibly complicated steps to make it in no way able to be converted back to a gun. These include making the bolt run the opposite direction, using nylon barstock to make the bolt, using internal receiver dimensions no where near original specs, etc...

I looked into this already, the big thing is if it uses REAL blanks, that can chamber in a REAL gun, its gonna be hard to do legally.

Now if you use those 8mm blank cartridges it would be a lot easier....


Even easier yet would be to just buy one already built...


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.asp?Cat=900&Timeframe=0&Sort=0&Page=6&Items=50

http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/051154000/51154719/pix585149718.jpg
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=51154719
$400 for an M16 blank fire replica, uses 8mm PPC shells...

http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/051154000/51154840/pix585284390.jpg
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=51154840
$350 for M3A1 grease gun replica.


Much cheaper than buying a demilled kit and spending weeks of time engineering a blank gun that WONT get you sent to Levinworth hahaha.



JP


err I want one

Stanze
06-27-2006, 10:25 PM
Ok stanze, what's your 858 handle?

Yeah, I've got a:
m4 aeg @400 fps
a 8mm bren at 420
a gas sniper at 600
a glock 18 gbb
some little colt 25 nbb's for hostage situations,
and my nerf rpg is almost made.
(to be clear, these are all non-gun airsoft guns, legal as can be)

And of course I can actually shoot them at my friends.:)

Airsoft guns can be a riot, but most "shooters" have only seen the $50 Jungletoy specials.:rolleyes:

And by the way, hollywood has started using guns in movies. I remember a scene in one of the batman movies where you can see the gas port in the bottom of a magazine.

I took my bren ten into the gun shop I used to work for, looking for a good tactical holster, and I had trouble convincing the owner it wasn't real. (no smart comments re any orange paint, we'll just say it was there for the sake of not "confessing")

Nice gear, I just have a Beretta M93R w/ folding stock that needs a new mag. I've mag dumped many thousands of rounds through it before the gas seals wore.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtmWn807_Y

I'm Stanze on http://www.858airsoft.com