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Mssr. Eleganté
06-25-2006, 8:33 PM
No really. A new angle. I promise. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/smile.gif



So, we all know that rimfire rifles are exempt from California's A/W ban. Technically, a .22LR AR15 with a detachable magazine and all the evil features should be legal if it's built on an Off List Lower. But the consensus seems to be that, legally, you would be safer to use a dedicated .22LR upper rather than one of the conversion kits. The reasoning goes that with the conversion kit in your centerfire upper DOJ could claim that since the barrel is still marked for a centerfire caliber and the lower is marked for a centerfire caliber, then the rifle is really a centerfire rifle even though it is configured as a rimfire.

The dedicated .22LR uppers seem like a safer bet. But some still worry that DOJ will claim the rifle is centerfire because the lower, the only part of the rifle that is legally a firearm, is still marked for a centerfire caliber.

It has been suggested on the forum that using one of the brands of Off List Lowers that is not marked for a specific caliber, like Lauer or Mega Gator, might give you even more protection legally. But there is still some concern that a cop might bust you anyway because he knows that "AR15's are centerfire".

So how about going one step further.

How about getting an Off List Lower that is actually marked .22LR for caliber...

http://www.streamload.com/Amendment_II/LCW-Left.jpg

And since any A/W busts are most likely going to be made by local cops, at the range, during a traffic stop or domestic situation, rather than by CalDOJ firearms division agents, and just in case they don't know what ".22LR" means, why not even add a little something extra so the cops can easily contrast the word "rimfire" on your rifle with the word "centerfire" on page 71 of their A/W "picture book" guide...

http://www.streamload.com/Amendment_II/LCW-Right.jpg

I know having an AR lower that you only use for .22 rimfire kind of goes against one of the main benefits of the AR platform, which is the easy switching of calibers. But for those of us who have enough lowers that we probably won't be switching uppers around anyway, it's one more layer of CYA to help ease the mind. Overkill? Maybe. Unnecessary expense? Maybe. But if you're spending $600 on a .22LR plinker anyway, why complain about money. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

xenophobe
06-25-2006, 8:40 PM
That's not a bad idea, especially for the officer who doesn't know any better...

Stanze
06-25-2006, 8:44 PM
58 DAs blah, blah, blah...

Until these lowers are listed, they are plain old rifle receivers subject to SB-23, say's so right in the latest memo.:D

I don't see an issue with using a OLL with a dedicated .22LR upper. The conversion kits do scream "gray area" to me. It would be fine if it was up to me, but it's up to 58 DAs as DOJ so eloquently puts it.

Personally, I rather use a 10/22 so I can use my owned before 1/1/2000 over 10 round preban mags.

blkA4alb
06-25-2006, 11:36 PM
This idea has been mentioned before. I personally don't feel it necessary as long as you are using a dedicated 22LR upper and not the conversions. So have you talked any manufactorers into producing this? I don't see many being so hot about it as no one else besides a few here in cali would want one. It wouldn't be too profitable for them.

Mssr. Eleganté
06-26-2006, 7:13 AM
So have you talked any manufactorers into producing this?

Just one.

It wouldn't be too profitable for them.

Well they do already make a receiver that isn't marked for caliber and they do specialize in custom engraving of receivers, so this was right up their alley.

JPglee1
06-26-2006, 7:48 AM
Couldn't you take any AR lower and have it engraved by a trophy shop or someone similar?

Heck, use 3/16" stamps from harbor freight and stamp "RIMFIRE 22LR ONLY" in the lower.


JP

JPglee1
06-26-2006, 8:09 AM
..........

five.five-six
06-26-2006, 8:50 AM
Couldn't you take any AR lower and have it engraved by a trophy shop or someone similar?

Heck, use 3/16" stamps from harbor freight and stamp "RIMFIRE 22LR ONLY" in the lower.


JP


or "Do not remove tag under peanelty of law"

Mssr. Eleganté
06-28-2006, 10:47 PM
Couldn't you take any AR lower and have it engraved by a trophy shop or someone similar?

Heck, use 3/16" stamps from harbor freight and stamp "RIMFIRE 22LR ONLY" in the lower.

If Lauer wouldn't do it I was going to go the trophy shop route, but Lauer was OK with it and only charged $35. And this way it arrived at my FFL with the .22 LR markings already on it, so he was required to log it into his bound book as a .22LR caliber.

I was originally going to ask them to engrave some kind of warning like "DANGER - .22 LONG RIFLE ONLY", but thought they might not want anything on their lower that would imply it was sub-standard. As I explained to the guy at Lauer what I wanted and why, I kept expecting him to say "No Way!" , but his reply was "Whatever we can legally do to help out you guys in California we'll do." I almost started crying.

crzpete
06-28-2006, 11:18 PM
I would love to have a .22 caliber dedicated upper and a lower with proper engraving for a rimfire use only, but the DOJ will definitely jump at this one as well. The only way that I can see DOJ approving such a rifle would be by making completely sure this is a dedicated .22 Rimfire “ONLY”. A rifle that cannot be easily converted to centerfire by just replacing some parts like the complete upper with the bolt and carrier group.

For example: welding the upper and lower together making it a one receiver (NO WAY!) or by welding the forward take down pin somehow making it permanent to the lower but still be able to open the upper and pivoting forward for cleaning purpose.

Then if approved! we can have all the other evil features with a removable 10 rds magazine and a nice letter from the DOJ saying it’s ok.

Do you think this will fly?:confused:

kAnJii
06-29-2006, 8:18 AM
Professional Ordnance Carbon-15 Type 22. Marked dedicated .22lr on the lower.

crzpete
06-29-2006, 11:24 AM
Professional Ordnance Carbo-15 Type 22. Marked dedicated .22lr on the lower.
Is this just a lower or a complete rifle? Do you have a link? I can’t find any info on the net

grammaton76
06-29-2006, 3:35 PM
I would love to have a .22 caliber dedicated upper and a lower with proper engraving for a rimfire use only, but the DOJ will definitely jump at this one as well. The only way that I can see DOJ approving such a rifle would be by making completely sure this is a dedicated .22 Rimfire “ONLY”. A rifle that cannot be easily converted to centerfire by just replacing some parts like the complete upper with the bolt and carrier group.

The simplest solution here, would be for there to be some kind of permanently affixed magblock which only allows, say, Ruger 22 pistol mags to fit into the magwell. In that case, you don't have to care whether you use a conversion kit, dedicated upper, or what - the only thing that's gonna feed through that, is a 22LR mag!

crzpete
06-29-2006, 5:28 PM
The simplest solution here, would be for there to be some kind of permanently affixed magblock which only allows, say, Ruger 22 pistol mags to fit into the magwell. In that case, you don't have to care whether you use a conversion kit, dedicated upper, or what - the only thing that's gonna feed through that, is a 22LR mag!

Excellent! Permanently welding the 22 mag block to the mag well on one of my OLLs sending it to be engraved and writing a letter to DOJ about this particular rifle maybe with photos of the mag well. I am sure that they can’t say no, Right? I would like to try this one.

kAnJii
06-29-2006, 10:59 PM
Is this just a lower or a complete rifle? Do you have a link? I can’t find any info on the net

Professional Ordnance no longer exist. It was bought out by Bushmaster. That's why Carbon-15 is now Bushmaster. I have 2 of the PO Carbon-15 Type 22, but Bushmaster won't sell their version because it is not a dedicated .22lr. They're not interchangable either.

leelaw
06-29-2006, 11:38 PM
I'm thinking the DPMS single-shot receiver with the belt-fed .22lr upper. :D