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View Full Version : Fios 25mbps. Is it worth it for the ++ bandwidth?


AlexDD
11-16-2010, 10:56 AM
I am thinking of upgrading my 1.5 Mbps dsl to Fios.

My primary use of the new bandwidth will be to take advantage of new viewing platforms like boxee, netflix to get a better picture.

Is it worth the $15 extra a month to go from 15/5 Mbps to the 25/25 Mbps?

What is the minimum for 1080p streaming?

I am also thinking of ditching my home phone to go with Ooma.

Thanks for any help.

JDay
11-16-2010, 12:14 PM
It is well worth it, your current connection cannot handle 1080p streaming.

AlexDD
11-16-2010, 12:58 PM
It is well worth it, your current connection cannot handle 1080p streaming.

My current connection of 1.5mbps is way out dated :) Netflix is watchable but not great.

Just seeing how much to jump up in bandwidth.

gimme
11-16-2010, 1:31 PM
go with the 15/5, i had it for 3 years and loved every bit of it :D

Merc1138
11-17-2010, 12:44 AM
1.5mbps is definitely lacking.

Aside from bit torrents and usenet, you'd be hard pressed to actually use all 25mbps at once with only a single application(there's a couple exceptions besides what I previously mentioned). I dropped my own bandwidth down a tier to 12mbps when they upped it to 20mbps to save 10 bucks just because I was absolutely not using all of the available bandwidth except in a couple rare circumstances and the few minutes that might be saved downloading large files just didn't matter.

ETA: I forgot something. If you get the 15mbps connection and it's not working it, it's not as if you can't upgrade later on anyway.

AlexDD
11-17-2010, 6:36 AM
1.5mbps is definitely lacking.

Aside from bit torrents and usenet, you'd be hard pressed to actually use all 25mbps at once with only a single application(there's a couple exceptions besides what I previously mentioned). I dropped my own bandwidth down a tier to 12mbps when they upped it to 20mbps to save 10 bucks just because I was absolutely not using all of the available bandwidth except in a couple rare circumstances and the few minutes that might be saved downloading large files just didn't matter.

ETA: I forgot something. If you get the 15mbps connection and it's not working it, it's not as if you can't upgrade later on anyway.


Thanks. Forgot I could always upgrade from 15 to 25 if it is not enough.

gunn
11-17-2010, 8:13 AM
If you think about it logistically, even with a content distribution network to scatter the various Netflix servers around the country, they would have a hard time sustaining a 25Mbps link to EVERY streaming customer (even if it was just in a city from a local server).

Netflix's pipes aren't that big.

From what I see online, 5Mbps average link is required for a 720p stream and (from some comment via Twitter) ~8+Mbps for a 1080p stream.
Phrase googled: netflix 1080p "Mbps requirement"

Also, since we are talking about a 1-way stream vs. a 2-way (game/video conferencing) where latency is key, any video/audio will likely be cached (you'll notice a slight delay before the video starts playing). This way, if the actual bitrate spikes (say for a fast motion/action sequence), then the decoder will be fed from the stream+buffer vs. just decoding directly what comes down your pipe.
-g

AlliedArmory
11-18-2010, 2:38 AM
Man. 15/5 is more than enough. But 25/25 would be SICK!

I am already happy with my 7/1. I downgraded from 10/1.

den888
11-18-2010, 8:06 AM
Excellent point.

Netflix cached content is carried by a CDN's edge servers. If they had a 1 gbps link out of the CDN edge data center, they could service at most 40 simultaneous users at 25 mbps throughput (1000 mbps or 1 gbps / 25 = 40) because the 1 gbps link would be at capacity.

If you think about it logistically, even with a content distribution network to scatter the various Netflix servers around the country, they would have a hard time sustaining a 25Mbps link to EVERY streaming customer (even if it was just in a city from a local server).

Netflix's pipes aren't that big.

From what I see online, 5Mbps average link is required for a 720p stream and (from some comment via Twitter) ~8+Mbps for a 1080p stream.
Phrase googled: netflix 1080p "Mbps requirement"

Also, since we are talking about a 1-way stream vs. a 2-way (game/video conferencing) where latency is key, any video/audio will likely be cached (you'll notice a slight delay before the video starts playing). This way, if the actual bitrate spikes (say for a fast motion/action sequence), then the decoder will be fed from the stream+buffer vs. just decoding directly what comes down your pipe.
-g

WTSGDYBBR
11-18-2010, 8:23 AM
My Cable is just as good as Fios wait into DOSIC 3 comes around you will not get 50MB Download on Fios.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1035651779.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

goodlookin1
11-18-2010, 9:56 AM
I have Fiber to my home via Surewest. My speeds are advertized as 15/15 and if I was rich, could go up to 50/50 ($200 per mo), but I find my actual speeds are 14.05/40! I've actually had my upload go up to 58Mbps once. I can tell you that if you ever upload information to FTP servers, send info to anybody (gaming, file transfers), it is the BEST UPGRADE EVER. When I play COD:MW2 on xbox360, I am often the host and have way better scores, and if I am not the host, I still have a 4 bar (best) connection....my ping is unbelievable.

Cable ***could*** be just as fast as lower tier Fiber connections, but they usually arent. The fastest I've seen cable provide is 25/5. Sure the download is good, but I use a lot of upload for gaming and file transfers to other servers, and 5 is only "ok". You typically wont notice any faster internet browsing past a 5Mbps download speed, so the only thing that would be affected is streaming and downloading large files. Most file hosts/servers cap out at 1MBps ~ 1.5MBps anyways....they dont want bandwidth hogs stealing every ounce of bandwidth they have.

Oh and just to give you an idea of what a DVD's bitrate is at, it streams raw data at 11.08Mbps with a 1Mb buffer, so essentially it takes a 10Mbps connection for a 0% compression. But most DVD's are between 6 and 8Mbps. HD Bluray Maxes out at 40Mbps, so to stream a Blu-ray movie with 0% compression, you need quite a connection :rolleyes:


Remember, there are 8 bits in a byte, so 8 Mega bits per second = 1 Mega BYTE per second. So ideally, if you are downloading from a fast server and you have an 8Mbps download speed, then you can download a 1 MB file in 1 second.

1Mbps =/= 1MBps

driveljay
11-18-2010, 10:30 AM
My Cable is just as good as Fios wait into DOSIC 3 comes around you will not get 50MB Download on Fios.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1035651779.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

this is laughable...DOSIC 3 has been the talk for the past couple years from the big cable companies. FIOS is already offering 35/35MB to the home and even larger to the small business. In addition they just successfully tested 10GIG up and down (obviously not needed for home use, but still possible over the fios network). Also keep an eye out in 2011 for new speeds being offered. 200/130MB is what is being thrown about. Not to mention the integration of smart phones/fios tv. "Flex view" was just launched and they will be adding more and more features that cable just can't do.
Good luck to cable:rolleyes:

In any case...15/5 is plenty for the average home user. As stated above, if its not, you can upgrade at any time. No equipment change out is needed to up speed. Order it and they just turn it up.

Travis8128
11-18-2010, 2:13 PM
I have fios:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036082678.png (http://www.speedtest.net)







Don't know if it matters but there are 5 other computers in this house all using internet listening to music,streaming and such.

freonr22
11-18-2010, 2:19 PM
:(
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036088541.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Brianguy
11-18-2010, 2:57 PM
No need for 25 unless you have a bunch of money:D I'm not a verizon customer but i watch netflix while gaming online and haven't had any problem. save yourself a couple bucks! I downgraded to the low end package because I wasn't using all that bandwidth.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036118837.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

AlexDD
11-18-2010, 3:13 PM
Thanks for all the help. I will start at the 15mbps then upgrade if it is not enough.

Merc1138
11-18-2010, 3:27 PM
this is laughable...DOSIC 3 has been the talk for the past couple years from the big cable companies. FIOS is already offering 35/35MB to the home and even larger to the small business. In addition they just successfully tested 10GIG up and down (obviously not needed for home use, but still possible over the fios network). Also keep an eye out in 2011 for new speeds being offered. 200/130MB is what is being thrown about. Not to mention the integration of smart phones/fios tv. "Flex view" was just launched and they will be adding more and more features that cable just can't do.
Good luck to cable:rolleyes:

In any case...15/5 is plenty for the average home user. As stated above, if its not, you can upgrade at any time. No equipment change out is needed to up speed. Order it and they just turn it up.

First of all, you guys mean DOCSIS 3.

Second, there are cable companies offering 50mbps service to the home already.

Third, FIOS rollout is extremely limited compared to the number of customers able to get 50mbps cable service.

The "problem" with it, is that it costs an arm and a leg, and for the most part is completely pointless because unless you're downloading from enough sources at once, you aren't going to saturate the available bandwidth streaming movies or playing games.

Of course I wonder why this even turned into a cable vs fios debate in the first place. Who cares which service the guy has? It doesn't matter.

Oh, and if we want to play the "lets measure our internet connections and post them" game
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036155212.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
What do I win? Oh wait, nothing :rolleyes:

bender152
11-18-2010, 3:29 PM
I am also thinking of ditching my home phone to go with Ooma.

I'm using ooma at home. My only regret is not getting it sooner!

I haven't had a single problem with it (but then again, I don't use the phone that much).

EdinKali
11-18-2010, 3:49 PM
+1 for Surewest fiber to the home. I get about 14M down and it bursts to 20M up or so for a few seconds then settles down to about 15M.

Brianguy
11-18-2010, 3:58 PM
What do I win? Oh wait, nothing :rolleyes

you win in-game lag;)

five.five-six
11-18-2010, 4:02 PM
just remember the FioS modem draws 107 watts, so figure on a higher electric bill as well

Merc1138
11-18-2010, 4:11 PM
you win in-game lag;)

Actually my latency was only high to that particular test server, usually it's around 10-15ms. Plus I didn't stop all of the traffic prior to the test either :P

http://www.pingtest.net/result/28409894.png (http://www.pingtest.net)

WTSGDYBBR
11-18-2010, 4:13 PM
Merc1138 Is right most cable provider do offer faster speeds with the new 6120 modems charter and comcast. They have not upgraded us down here yet.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036184734.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

GO FiOS THAT SPEED

freonr22
11-18-2010, 4:14 PM
just remember the FioS modem draws 107 watts, so figure on a higher electric bill as well
good point. idw, what the energy rate is, does it always draw 107 watts?

I guessed @ kw/hr rate

75799

Merc1138
11-18-2010, 4:19 PM
Umm, I notice you took the time to cover up the task bar, but crop the image while you're at it next time ;)

five.five-six
11-18-2010, 4:24 PM
so $10/month in electric cost

freonr22
11-18-2010, 4:28 PM
Umm, I notice you took the time to cover up the task bar, but crop the image while you're at it next time ;)


Better? :)

Also i dont know what rate you are paying for elec, I am GUESSING but i am close?

Rhythm of Life
11-18-2010, 4:32 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036194473.png

$30 bucks a month and I can have Netflix on two wireless devices running fine in HD.

I pay for 10 Mbps and I usually get around 18, almost 15 isn't too bad considering I get 5 for free. Mind you these are wireless speeds, I've gotten up to 23 hard wired.

Jsapata
11-18-2010, 4:53 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036208645.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

charliesierra
11-18-2010, 4:55 PM
Holy crap that is fast. I had FIOS when I lived in Oregon and it was only 15.

freonr22
11-18-2010, 7:12 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036314102.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

laptop wireless at home, dont know what the pc at home is yet

mzimmers
11-18-2010, 7:46 PM
Remember, there are 8 bits in a byte, so 8 Mega bits per second = 1 Mega BYTE per second. So ideally, if you are downloading from a fast server and you have an 8Mbps download speed, then you can download a 1 MB file in 1 second.

That is IF there were no latency in the Internet. In reality, the time it takes to transfer a small file like that is much longer than the data rate would suggest. Unless you're dealing with really big files, the latency generally will dwarf the transfer time. Ditto with most web sites; the overhead is way bigger than the transfer rates would suggest.

I am a U-Verse customer; I have their 10Mbps package. I tried their fastest one but didn't notice any difference in my Internet experience, so I switched back. I'm a Netflix customer. My picture isn't great, but I think that's more a function of my old TV and receiver, not my download time.

If you don't mind spending the money, go for it, but I wouldn't expect a mind-blowing change in your Internet performance.

REDHORSE
11-18-2010, 8:24 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/988760108.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

tmncali
11-18-2010, 8:36 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036367837.png

tmncali
11-18-2010, 8:38 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1036208645.png (http://www.speedtest.net)




Upload speed ~3x's the download?

driveljay
11-18-2010, 9:58 PM
[QUOTE=Merc1138;5319442]First of all, you guys mean DOCSIS 3.

Second, there are cable companies offering 50mbps service to the home already.

Third, FIOS rollout is extremely limited compared to the number of customers able to get 50mbps cable service.

The "problem" with it, is that it costs an arm and a leg, and for the most part is completely pointless because unless you're downloading from enough sources at once, you aren't going to saturate the available bandwidth streaming movies or playing games.

Of course I wonder why this even turned into a cable vs fios debate in the first place. Who cares which service the guy has? It doesn't matter.

I just miss my FIOS and hate the Charter service I am stuck with now. I recently moved to a Charter area and their service is terrible in my neighborhood. FIOS isnt available as the hoa declined when VZ offered the build. I think you guys up north get the faster cable speed as the fastest ive seen offered down here is 20/2 which was more expensive than my FIOS 25/25. Im paying more money now for Charter TV/Internet with less channels overall, way less HD offerings and slower internet than I did for the FIOS "triple play".

Im just bitter. More money less service. I hate charter.:(

Merc1138
11-18-2010, 10:04 PM
[QUOTE=Merc1138;5319442]
I just miss my FIOS and hate the Charter service I am stuck with now. I recently moved to a Charter area and their service is terrible in my neighborhood. FIOS isnt available as the hoa declined when VZ offered the build. I think you guys up north get the faster cable speed as the fastest ive seen offered down here is 20/2 which was more expensive than my FIOS 25/25. Im paying more money now for Charter TV/Internet with less channels overall, way less HD offerings and slower internet than I did for the FIOS "triple play".

Im just bitter. More money less service. I hate charter.:(

Sounds to me like you should have a problem with your HOA denying your neighborhood a rollout of communications technology. It's bad enough there's little choice as it is between service providers for most people, but to have a monopoly put in place because of an HOA?

...

I happen to have a major dislike for HOAs, but that's a discussion for another topic.

Jimmy310
11-18-2010, 11:03 PM
I download @ 30mbps and upload 25mbps

GixxRacer
11-18-2010, 11:30 PM
wish they have fios in my area all they got is comcrap

Jsapata
11-19-2010, 7:44 AM
Upload speed ~3x's the download?

I think it has something to do with how SureWest limits the bandwidth based on package you purchase. They offer 50Mb/s up and down but I only pay for the 15Mb/s tier.

Digital_Boy
11-19-2010, 10:18 AM
With the new bandwidth up and down, you can throw your cable/satellite subscription in the trashcan and recoup the extra $15/month surcharge that the FIOS carries.

There's so little on TV actually worth watching, so I just download the shows I actually care about, instead of subsidizing 150 shopping channels to get the one channel that occasionally has a show I like.

JDay
11-19-2010, 5:44 PM
From what I see online, 5Mbps average link is required for a 720p stream and (from some comment via Twitter) ~8+Mbps for a 1080p stream.

1080p video is over 9Mbit, this is not counting the audio stream.

JDay
11-19-2010, 5:46 PM
Excellent point.

Netflix cached content is carried by a CDN's edge servers. If they had a 1 gbps link out of the CDN edge data center, they could service at most 40 simultaneous users at 25 mbps throughput (1000 mbps or 1 gbps / 25 = 40) because the 1 gbps link would be at capacity.

I don't think you understand the purpose of caching servers, they exist so you can increase the total number of connections. You just have to feed the caching server.

JDay
11-19-2010, 5:55 PM
I have Fiber to my home via Surewest.

Surewest ruined that service when they bought Winfirst, if they hadn't made that purchase I'd be able to get fiber at my house by now (all of Sacramento county would have fiber service now too). In fact I cannot even find their fiber offerings listed on their website.

tmncali
11-20-2010, 5:58 AM
I think it has something to do with how SureWest limits the bandwidth based on package you purchase. They offer 50Mb/s up and down but I only pay for the 15Mb/s tier.


Oh, OK, Cool...

professorhard
11-20-2010, 6:47 AM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/994473373.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

den888
11-20-2010, 7:37 AM
Believe me, I do. I was just pointing out the theoretical limitation of each stream was IF it being sent at 25 mbps (which they are not for video) and how the bandwidth (again theoretical at 1 gbps) would be maxed out and only 40 streaming sessions could be achieved. In the real world, it is much more.



I don't think you understand the purpose of caching servers, they exist so you can increase the total number of connections. You just have to feed the caching server.

JDay
11-20-2010, 3:56 PM
Believe me, I do. I was just pointing out the theoretical limitation of each stream was IF it being sent at 25 mbps (which they are not for video) and how the bandwidth (again theoretical at 1 gbps) would be maxed out and only 40 streaming sessions could be achieved. In the real world, it is much more.

Um no, because that connection goes from Netflix to the outside caching servers (which have much more bandwidth). The connection limit would be based off the caching servers bandwidth. I.E. Akamai servers. Netflix would only need to connect to these servers to update the available content. This is the whole purpose of CDNs.

http://www.akamai.com/

GM4spd
11-20-2010, 4:21 PM
I am thinking of upgrading my 1.5 Mbps dsl to Fios.

My primary use of the new bandwidth will be to take advantage of new viewing platforms like boxee, netflix to get a better picture.

Is it worth the $15 extra a month to go from 15/5 Mbps to the 25/25 Mbps?

What is the minimum for 1080p streaming?

I am also thinking of ditching my home phone to go with Ooma.

Thanks for any help.

I'm no technogeek but I think it is worth it(FIOS)---I stream NETFLIX movies
from my computer(via my router) and thru out the house and the picture
quality is out-uckingstanding---I was watching a 1966 color WW2 movie
and it is crystal clear with vibrant colors--all movies I have streamed so
far including "Siege of Firebase Gloria"(which to my knowledge is not available
on DVD),come out super clear via the streaming system. Pete

JDay
11-20-2010, 7:02 PM
all movies I have streamed so
far including "Siege of Firebase Gloria"(which to my knowledge is not available
on DVD),come out super clear via the streaming system. Pete

It's on DVD, digitally remastered in widescreen even.

http://blujay.com/item/SIEGE-AT-FIREBASE-GLORIA-Digital-Remastered-Widescreen-Ed-12010100-3344068

http://www.amazon.com/Siege-Firebase-Gloria-Wings-Hauser/dp/B000OFOJ2G/

http://www.blujay.com/1/467/3344068_s1_i1_4936.jpg

jmlivingston
11-21-2010, 3:27 PM
That is IF there were no latency in the Internet. In reality, the time it takes to transfer a small file like that is much longer than the data rate would suggest. Unless you're dealing with really big files, the latency generally will dwarf the transfer time. Ditto with most web sites; the overhead is way bigger than the transfer rates would suggest.


That's correct, latency is a big killer for high-bandwidth applications, especially with protocols using TCP where the sliding-window function in TCP will peak out and bottleneck data transfers.

John

locosway
11-30-2010, 12:55 AM
15Mbps is enough for streaming several connections in a house. I have 25Mbit u-verse, but I download a lot of software constantly.

BOFH
11-30-2010, 1:31 AM
My Cable is just as good as Fios wait into DOSIC 3 comes around you will not get 50MB Download on Fios.


Really? I have a 50/20Mb fios connection now and soon they will be offering higher speeds. I get all the promised speed and very low latency.

tuolumnejim
11-30-2010, 8:58 AM
Up here where I am this is the best I can get. :mad:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1051592400.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Ultimate
12-01-2010, 11:59 PM
Up here where I am this is the best I can get. :mad:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1051592400.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Wow that sucks! Out in the plains of Eastern colorado in a town of less than 5000, I've seen connections of over 8mbps download.

Wherryj
12-02-2010, 7:30 AM
just remember the FioS modem draws 107 watts, so figure on a higher electric bill as well

Wow, I have a whole house fan that draws less current.

Why is the FiOS modem drawing so much current?

Wherryj
12-02-2010, 7:39 AM
Really? I have a 50/20Mb fios connection now and soon they will be offering higher speeds. I get all the promised speed and very low latency.

I'm waiting for Verizon FiOS to hit the SF bay/East bay. I have a patient who is a VP at Verizon who said that it has been voted in, it's now just up to how long it takes to run the lines...

I tried to switch from Comcast to AT&T U-verse, but after spending an hour on the phone with the guy getting it set up-and having had to talk to two or more supervisors "just to finish up"-I got an appointment for a month away.

The next day at about 3pm I get a message from my receptionist that "Dwayne from AT&T called. He wants you to call him back." The problem is that Dwayne didn't leave a phone number. I tried calling AT&T's 800 number and went on the internet and chatted with several people who couldn't tell me how to connect with "Dwayne" at U-verse...

When I got home, I have two messages on my machine. One is "This is Dwayne from AT&T. I need you to call me back." (again he didn't leave a number) The second call was, "We needed to reschedule your appointment and you didn't call us back, so we canceled it. You'll need to reorder at this number..."

Calling multiple AT&T reps, it became apparent that AT&T has NO CONCEPT of customer service. No "we're sorry, they shouldn't have canceled an appointment that was a month away just because you didn't return a call to an unknown number within the hour." No, "we'll help you expedite your re-order", just "you'll have to call the U-Verse department at the standard number and wait in line again".

I'd rather stay with Comcast and its ludicrous pricing than go to AT&T. In fact, after that experience I dropped my AT&T land line.

Let us know how your new service works out. I'm waiting for it and would be interested in knowing if it is worth the wait.