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Dutch3
11-15-2010, 5:39 PM
I know that BP takes second fiddle in this shared forum, but I had a great time yesterday! I like C&R milsurps too, but BOOM and SMOKE are somehow fulfilling in a basic manner. :chris:

The wife, daughters, son-in-law and I headed up to some property his folks own in the Plumas NF here in Nor Cal. Plenty of room to sling some lead. At 2+ hours in and out, we did not have a lot of time, but I was able to shoot a few cylinders out of my "new" Pietta 1858.

BP is new to me, but the loading and shooting was quite enjoyable. I couldn't hit a damn thing at 25 yds, but am looking forward to making progress. I could not wipe the smile off my face! :D

I'm sure I look like some redneck yahoo, and my stance is all wrong...but I had a great time! Love that smoke! Unfortunately, at 6,000 elevation, we needed to start down the mountain early before the roads iced back up.

I may be shopping for a Sno-Cat! :D

-D

Captain Cogle
11-15-2010, 5:44 PM
Black Powder is fun. I have shot ALL sorts of guns from some of the most modern weaponry available to true classics and even quite a few machine guns of WW1 and WW2.

But nothing is quite as satisfying as black powder, to me, the most exhilarating of them all are flintlocks.

Dutch3
11-15-2010, 5:53 PM
But nothing is quite as satisfying as black powder, to me, the most exhilarating of them all are flintlocks.

I'll get there...for now, I'm concentrated on keeping the caps from falling off!

(Yes, I pinched them...still lost a couple).

-D

Captain Cogle
11-15-2010, 6:22 PM
I'll get there...for now, I'm concentrated on keeping the caps from falling off!

(Yes, I pinched them...still lost a couple).

-D

It happens no matter what.

mls343
11-15-2010, 6:43 PM
I love black powder! It is the ultimate. Nothing like smelling Crisco and smoke. Love it!

Nice pictures!

Dutch3
11-15-2010, 7:02 PM
I love black powder! It is the ultimate. Nothing like smelling Crisco and smoke. Love it!

Nice pictures!

Thanks! Here are a few more. Sorry for the poor quality, but they were not really "posed", just snapshots. Included youngest daughter with a pellet gun. She actually progressed to a .22 rifle before we left, and scored more hits than her old man...;)

wingnut948
11-16-2010, 7:32 PM
Yes, I agree. The loading process and the smoke are a big part of the fun. My first was a Pietta 1858, and I soon added a couple of Pietta Colt 1860s.

As it turns out, the Colt is the only one of my revolvers that I can hit consistent bullseyes at 25 yds! Of course, I need to aim about 9 inches low and a little to the right.

So far I've only used Pyrodex, but hope to use some home-made black powder once I'm happy with the outcome (so far not good enough quality). Looks like you had a great day!

Vee3
11-17-2010, 12:50 AM
Black powder stuff is just as fun (to me) as shooting modern guns. More relaxing too, as you're forced to slow down due to the loading process. I'm more apt to try to hit the target too, since there's some work involved to load one shot at a time. BP is about $20 a pound now so not inexpensive, but it's definitely 'cheaper by the hour' compared to cartriges.

A whole 'nuther dimension to BP is when one gets into cannons & mortars...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/Victor3/DSCF3184.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/Victor3/DSCF3172.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/Victor3/DSCF2523-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/Victor3/DSCN0177.jpg

Captain Cogle
11-17-2010, 1:34 AM
How about a Leather Cannon?
We live fire this bad boy with 3 pound balls.

Flintlock Tom
11-17-2010, 11:03 AM
I'll get there...for now, I'm concentrated on keeping the caps from falling off!

(Yes, I pinched them...still lost a couple).

-D
Caps come in two sizes: #10 & #11. If you're using #11s switch to #10s.
If you're using #10s and they're still too loose, swap out the nipples to larger ones.
Or...switch to flintlock so you don't need to worry about no dang caps.

Dutch3
11-17-2010, 3:44 PM
Caps come in two sizes: #10 & #11. If you're using #11s switch to #10s.
If you're using #10s and they're still too loose, swap out the nipples to larger ones.
Or...switch to flintlock so you don't need to worry about no dang caps.

Thanks...Pietta specs #11. Some have said CCI 11's are too loose and Remington 11's are just right. I was using Remington 11's. Maybe I'll try CCI #10.

If I use a BBQ lighter on a flintlock, is that considered cheating? :D


-D

Captain Cogle
11-17-2010, 3:53 PM
Thanks...Pietta specs #11. Some have said CCI 11's are too loose and Remington 11's are just right. I was using Remington 11's. Maybe I'll try CCI #10.

If I use a BBQ lighter on a flintlock, is that considered cheating? :D


-D

1. Why would you use a BBQ lighter on a flintlock?

2. If you want direct flame in the pan to ignite your powder, then get a Matchlock. I have one I would be happy to let you try. Flintlocks as well for that matter.... And any number of other old lock mechanisms. Snaplocks, Snaphaunces, Matchlocks, English Locks, Doglocks, Flintlocks, Wheel locks, Cap locks, you get the idea.

Dutch3
11-17-2010, 3:57 PM
How about a Leather Cannon?
We live fire this bad boy with 3 pound balls.

My hat is off to you, sir.

It is one thing to fire 25 grains in a reproduction revolver...but a leather cannon? What kind of charge do you use to fire those balls?

-D

Dutch3
11-17-2010, 4:04 PM
1. Why would you use a BBQ lighter on a flintlock?

Because with my luck, it would go "SNAP...fizzzz" ...ad infinitum...


2. If you want direct flame in the pan to ignite your powder, then get a Matchlock. I have one I would be happy to let you try. Flintlocks as well for that matter.... And any number of other old lock mechanisms. Snaplocks, Snaphaunces, Matchlocks, English Locks, Doglocks, Flintlocks, Wheel locks, Cap locks, you get the idea.

It sounds like you have quite a collection of reliable firearms. I assume familiarity breeds success in this.

-D

Captain Cogle
11-17-2010, 4:10 PM
My hat is off to you, sir.

It is one thing to fire 25 grains in a reproduction revolver...but a leather cannon? What kind of charge do you use to fire those balls?

-D

We use about 1/4 to 1/2 pound of powder every shot depending on projectile and range. Solid shot or Canister shot.

The Cannon isnt 100% leather. Its copied from an original in Edinburgh Scotland same as was used by Scottish and Swedish troops in the 30 years war and the English Civil Wars. Its a copper tube with framework that the leather is built around. They were revolutionary in that they were the first light field artillery that could be taken any where quickly, even disassembled and each man hauling a piece. The only draw back to them was they could not keep a prolonged sustaining fire maybe 20 shots before the copper tube and leather gets too hot.

Sorry, too much information probably.

Captain Cogle
11-17-2010, 4:23 PM
Because with my luck, it would go "SNAP...fizzzz" ...ad infinitum...



It sounds like you have quite a collection of reliable firearms. I assume familiarity breeds success in this.

-D

Flintlocks are VERY reliable if you know how to use them and it inst pouring rain. But they will even work in the light rain.

Just make sure you are using a good flint, none of that cut flint crap, only use French Amber (best) or English Gray flints, make sure you're frizzen is properly hardened and that the flint is seated correctly along with about half a pan full of FFF or FF powder. The ultra fine powder is a bad idea contrary to popular belief. It just falls out of the pan.

Too much information again?

Dutch3
11-17-2010, 5:21 PM
Not at all. Never too much good information!

-D

3Liniya
11-20-2010, 1:21 PM
Hey Dutch3..love the Pics and I gotta agree that BP shooting is a kick in the pants. For Father's day a few years back I talked the wife & kids into getting me a Pietta '58. It was on sale at Cabelas so I got the color-case hardened frame model with the fancy checkered grips. As for caps I've found that the CCI #10s you mentioned work best for me, I just try to not clean the outside of the nipple...let the carbon build up some and it helps grip the caps. To clean the nipple orifice I've found that the tool for cleaning the nozzle of an acetylene torch to work really well.

You may already be aware but if not, be sure not to use a petroleum based lube...it reacts with BP and creates a tar like buildup that's a bugger to get off! Don't tell my wife but after cleaning my pistol (hot soapy water, nylon bore brush, old tooth brush, one of wifey's sham-wow rags and a hair dryer), I grab the olive oil from the kitchen to lube it up...working good so far. Since getting the pistol, I've also invested in a few accessories that allow me to expand it's versatility...Kirst Konverters sells conversion cylinders that allow you to fire 45cal cartridges from your pistol. I have 2 cylinders (1 in 45colt and another in 45ACP) and 1 firing pin ring. I got the 45colt first and found that at times I couldn't get long colt (new or once fired) for reloading when I wanted it so I got the 45ACP...I can find fired 45acp on the ground everywhere I go to shoot (gotta love the guys who have enough $$ not to or don't know enough to reload).

...Capt. Cogle, I'm truly impressed with your collection of BP historic arms and ditto to what Dutch had to say about "never too much good information"...the greater half of what I know about small arms has been gleaned from forums such as these...knowledge is greatly appreciated.

mac

Dutch3
11-22-2010, 6:57 AM
Hey Dutch3..love the Pics and I gotta agree that BP shooting is a kick in the pants.

Thanks, I think I am going to enjoy it very much. I already have a set of torch tip cleaners in the "BP Box" and there is always plenty of olive oil around here. The "Nectar of the Gods" with 1001 uses!

I have thought about the conversion cylinders...maybe someday if I can afford it or become too feeble to mess with the caps!

BTW, I like your avatar. That is one of my favorite aircraft. It's old, low and slow...but packs a heck of a punch. :D

-D

3Liniya
11-22-2010, 2:21 PM
BTW, I like your avatar. That is one of my favorite aircraft. It's old, low and slow...but packs a heck of a punch. :D

-D

It was my favorite jet...I loaded 15s and 52s as well but the Warthog seems to curry a faithful following. I agree, low and slow but somehow it has a graceful beauty in flight...not withstanding the sheer devastation it can deal out. We used to call it "massive production of death and destruction"

Robin47
11-22-2010, 7:43 PM
HI All,

Yeah good Info 3liniya about the nipples being left uncleaned to hold the caps better. Seems like I forgot that one.

Dutch3 good picture Bro ! Yeah I'm in Tehama county and not much good places to shoot here. Moved here last spring.
Anyway I been shooting BP pistols since 1977, I like the 1851 Navy Colts
36 Cal. They seem to shoot real good. Also have a 1861 and its real nice to.

I had a Remington 36 Cal once, but didn't like it much.
I found the Cylinder, would gum up fast and cause it to not turn good.
Anyway I have hunted with the 1851's and find there very reliable,
and accurate.
Try the CCI #10s. I miked my nipples, and found 2 of them were a little big at the base, causing them not to fire. So I trimmed them down and all
fire fine now. I use CCI #10 Caps
The 1851 is a Pietta also, they do make good guns now.
A little refining and there good to go.

Your right on Dutch3 BP shooting these old pistols, is far more fun then
the modern stuff, I even like cleaning them now. ( Retired) Something to do !
"I love the smell of Black Powder in the morning " !

Robin47 :)

Dutch3
11-23-2010, 5:57 AM
Try the CCI #10s. I miked my nipples, and found 2 of them were a little big at the base, causing them not to fire. So I trimmed them down and all
fire fine now. I use CCI #10 Caps
The 1851 is a Pietta also, they do make good guns now.
A little refining and there good to go.


My son in law has an 1851 Pietta Navy in .36. He told me he did some work on the nipples to remove a little bit of the taper and the #10 caps now work well.

CSACANNONEER
11-23-2010, 6:04 AM
I took my first buck with a patched roundball. Nothing more satisfying than seeing a buck rolling down the hill to you as the smoke clears.

How about a Leather Cannon?
We live fire this bad boy with 3 pound balls.

Cute little toy:D. My unit has 8 full scale cannon but, the only one we live fire is a Paulson Bros' Parrott rifle. 3" bore, 18lb bolt (conical projectile), friction primer and 1lb of Fg per round. You can see us live firing it on Hulu.com. Just search For Episode 4, Season 1 of Mail Call. I was the "Powder Monkey".:D

Robin47
11-23-2010, 11:52 AM
My son in law has an 1851 Pietta Navy in .36. He told me he did some work on the nipples to remove a little bit of the taper and the #10 caps now work well.

Yup that works fine. Dutch3
As far as your not getting good accuracy with your shooters, you might need to put a spot on your target at say 20 yards and shoot at the same point each time. Even if your hitting low or high.
Then move back to 25 yards ETC. Until you reach where your shots
are hitting right on.
Maybe 30 to 35 yards, then learn how to compensate, at shorter distances, and also longer distances.
Keep the same powder load every time, like 30 grains ETC.

I've shot squirrel at 20 yards, and a rattle snake at 6 feet in the head.
We just need to get use to our guns and what they will do.
At any rate they are sure a fun guns to shoot !

Robin47 :)

NovaTodd
11-23-2010, 7:12 PM
But nothing is quite as satisfying as black powder, to me, the most exhilarating of them all are flintlocks.

Click
@#$#@ :mad:
Click
@#$@# :mad:
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!
CRACK :43:

And yes, I have a flintlock. Other than having trouble finding the small flints I need for a reasonable price ($15 for 4 pieces) it is a blast to shoot. Just very dirty but at least it cleans up with soap & water.

bplvr
11-23-2010, 8:00 PM
........and here is a real BP gun !

Captain Cogle
11-23-2010, 8:39 PM
Click
@#$#@ :mad:
Click
@#$@# :mad:
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!
CRACK :43:

And yes, I have a flintlock. Other than having trouble finding the small flints I need for a reasonable price ($15 for 4 pieces) it is a blast to shoot. Just very dirty but at least it cleans up with soap & water.

It shouldnt be giving you that much trouble. If you are having frequent mis-fires then something is wrong.

What kind of flints do you use? Powder? Who is the gun maker?

Course if you're gun uses small flints that alone might be the problem. Most 17th-early 19th century flintlock guns took between a half to an inch and a half flint.

Its really only the modern reproductions that use tiny flints.

Try these guys for flints if you havent before.
www.trackofthewolf.com/

Captain Cogle
11-23-2010, 8:41 PM
I took my first buck with a patched roundball. Nothing more satisfying than seeing a buck rolling down the hill to you as the smoke clears.



Cute little toy:D. My unit has 8 full scale cannon but, the only one we live fire is a Paulson Bros' Parrott rifle. 3" bore, 18lb bolt (conical projectile), friction primer and 1lb of Fg per round. You can see us live firing it on Hulu.com. Just search For Episode 4, Season 1 of Mail Call. I was the "Powder Monkey".:D

Yeah she aint quite a civil war era field artillery BUT her creation lead to the development of civil war era field artillery.

Seen that episode! Know who you guys are actually.:D

Fun stuff.

Dolk
11-24-2010, 6:20 AM
Light up those BP's

http://thedolk.com/junk/flint003x.jpg

NovaTodd
11-26-2010, 10:11 AM
It shouldnt be giving you that much trouble. If you are having frequent mis-fires then something is wrong.

What kind of flints do you use? Powder? Who is the gun maker?

Course if you're gun uses small flints that alone might be the problem. Most 17th-early 19th century flintlock guns took between a half to an inch and a half flint.

Its really only the modern reproductions that use tiny flints.

Try these guys for flints if you havent before.
www.trackofthewolf.com/

It is a modern replica from my best guess is the 70's as I bought it in the late 80's in pieces as the gun shop that had it didn't want to mess with it. I very seldom shoot it. As to the flints, it uses the very small ones - almost as small as the pistol sizes. I think someone put a pistol lock on it in the distant past. I do have fun with it when I take it out. Just hasn't been in the last several years.
The other problem that I have is that I don't know where to purchase black powder anymore. There was a small shop down the road that used to carry it but it has been closed for several years now. I have some leftovers from way back when, but when that is gone, I don't have any more. And, I don't want to use Pyrodex of any of the modern substitutes. If it used caps, it would be a different story.

Captain Cogle
11-26-2010, 11:53 AM
It is a modern replica from my best guess is the 70's as I bought it in the late 80's in pieces as the gun shop that had it didn't want to mess with it. I very seldom shoot it. As to the flints, it uses the very small ones - almost as small as the pistol sizes. I think someone put a pistol lock on it in the distant past. I do have fun with it when I take it out. Just hasn't been in the last several years.
The other problem that I have is that I don't know where to purchase black powder anymore. There was a small shop down the road that used to carry it but it has been closed for several years now. I have some leftovers from way back when, but when that is gone, I don't have any more. And, I don't want to use Pyrodex of any of the modern substitutes. If it used caps, it would be a different story.

I dont know about you're part of the state but normally you can have black powder shipped to your door.

The rifle may indeed have a pistol lock on it but back when the whole Rendezvous/Mountain man/Black Powder craze got started they started producing a lot of historically unfounded goofy items such as the ever popular overly mass produced "Kentucky Rifle" with tiny flintlock or even tiny musket cap taking locks. There was some sort of fixation with them using tiny caps or tiny flints. 100% historically WRONG. Kinda falls in with the "Mountain men used the Hawkins rifle" sort of thing.:rolleyes:

But I still own mine. It was fun to shoot and very accurate, but I haven't much use for it now days with my large collection of rifles and muskets that are historically correct and serve my needs. :D But it makes a decent wall hanger. It hangs on the rack with my wife's Lord of the Rings swords. Fantasy weapons. :p