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View Full Version : Pistol Grip, Thumbhole Stock, or Legal


Dump1567
06-22-2006, 5:35 PM
I figured I'd bring this to a true "jury of my peers";) . Based on the definitions below, is this a Pistol Grip, Thumbhole Stock, or Legal if used with detachable mags? (The muzzle attachment is a muzzle brake and the other side of the stock looks identical to the side shown).

"Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing"

"thumbhole stock means a stock with a hole that allows the thumb of the trigger hand to penetrate into or through the stock"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Dump1567/SBR.jpg

Sorry, the pic won't resize.

MonsterMan
06-22-2006, 5:57 PM
Well from looking at this pic, it looks good as long as you can't pop out the "plug". I would be a little nervous if your "web" was below the line. I know it shouldn't apply to this sence it is not a "Pistol" grip. But you never know what they might to throw at you. It cannot be held in a "pistol type grasp" which is good. It is a protruding grip. But again that should be ok. As long as it is not a protruding "pistol type" grip. The only thing I would question is the "web" issue. That is why I made my grip with the angle that I did so when held correctly, the web was higher than the line (I think you could hold any gun with the web below if tried hard enough).

Good job. How much heavier is it? It looks big.

MonsterMan

bwiese
06-22-2006, 6:07 PM
It's OK and way far from the line. You can't have the web of your hand behind the grip.

Not only that, you can paddle home if you lose an oar. ;)

Who makes this stock???

Blacktail 8541
06-22-2006, 6:16 PM
It appears to be the Bell & Carlson stock that is sold thru Brownells.

Dump1567
06-22-2006, 6:28 PM
It appears to be the Bell & Carlson stock that is sold thru Brownells.

You are correct.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1866&title=AR-15+THUMBHOLE+BUTTSTOCK

http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/137100015.jpg

My buddy filled in the hole with Brownells Acraglas. It does add some weight, but I set it up as a sort of Cali-legal SPR. Nothing against Monsterman's grip as I do own one, but the vertical style of this stock does have a better feel. This ones also $90.00 and some work. I know someone else here made one. Maybe he can post pics. A couple things I noticed: If you ever remove this stock, your going to detroy your safety detent spring. This works great for me being a lefty. But if you put on an ambi. safety to use a a thumb rest, you'll have to remove some stock material due to rubbing.

PIRATE14
06-22-2006, 6:39 PM
It's OK and way far from the line. You can't have the web of your hand behind the grip.

Not only that, you can paddle home if you lose an oar. ;)

Who makes this stock???

True, good to go.

Put some lead in the stock for those Zombies that get too close during mag changes.........:D

BTWN the MM Stock and this one.......there should be a winner real soon.

TKo_Productions
06-22-2006, 10:31 PM
sine the stock can double as an oar, there's no more excuse about loosing your firearms in a boating accident.

http://www.bcelders.com/Raffle/Prize%2045%20Crooked%20Paddle%20by%20Johnathan%20R ice.jpg

adamsreeftank
06-23-2006, 1:01 AM
I think it could be argued that the pistol grip issues don't apply, since it is a stock and not a grip. On the other hand (of logic), maybe the DOJ would say it was really a giant pistol grip...:D

adamsreeftank
06-23-2006, 1:03 AM
This ones also $90.00 and some work. I.


Thanks for the link. I see it listed for $121.50. Is it $90 somewhere else?

leelaw
06-23-2006, 1:07 AM
Thanks for the link. I see it listed for $121.50. Is it $90 somewhere else?

$85.25 if you're a C&R, FFL, or some other person that Brownells give discount pricing to.

adamsreeftank
06-23-2006, 1:40 AM
$85.25 if you're a C&R, FFL, or some other person that Brownells give discount pricing to.

I see. Thanks for the info.

Dump1567
06-23-2006, 7:45 AM
You may be able to sign-up as a gunsmith and get the discount. Don't know if they require any form of verification. I've ordered $1,000's worth of stuff from Brownells. I think they are the best on-line company I've ever dealt with. Excellent price, usually alway in stock, and superfast shipping.

We can call this the oar stock.

SC_00_05
06-23-2006, 9:03 AM
The OarStock and MonsterGrip, you guys should be trade marking these. Seriously. They both look great and it's good to see American ingenuity at work.

Dump, are you going to try building these on a bigger scale or just making them for your own use?

Paradiddle
06-23-2006, 9:28 AM
Brownell is back ordered. Anyone else have an online source for these? I checked a couple of their vendors but they don't seem to carry that stock.

Jeff

DSA_FAL
06-23-2006, 9:52 AM
Have you checked all of these companies?

http://www.bellandcarlson.com/Buy.htm

Dump1567
06-23-2006, 10:16 AM
The OarStock and MonsterGrip, you guys should be trade marking these. Seriously. They both look great and it's good to see American ingenuity at work.

Dump, are you going to try building these on a bigger scale or just making them for your own use?

Sorry, no plans to mass produce. I e-mailed this design to Ironwood, but haven't heard back. It would be nice if someone could make these. the only thing I would change would be to round the bottom of the PG area so it flows a little better. Than we could call it the speed bumb stock.

This style stock does allow for easier reloading than a gripless design. More area to hold onto.

Gregas
06-23-2006, 11:42 AM
Brownell is back ordered. Anyone else have an online source for these? I checked a couple of their vendors but they don't seem to carry that stock.

Ordered one from Midway last night ($99). I think that they had 4 left last night.

JWC6
06-23-2006, 11:45 AM
sorry to interrupt this thread but I hope someone could do this....

thanks xenophobe

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=29361&page=2&highlight=fs2000

Paradiddle
06-23-2006, 1:04 PM
Ordered one from Midway last night ($99). I think that they had 4 left last night.

Thanks. Just purchased mine.

SC_00_05
06-23-2006, 1:30 PM
Sorry, no plans to mass produce. I e-mailed this design to Ironwood, but haven't heard back. It would be nice if someone could make these. the only thing I would change would be to round the bottom of the PG area so it flows a little better. Than we could call it the speed bumb stock.

This style stock does allow for easier reloading than a gripless design. More area to hold onto.
No problem, I'll just have to figure out how to make my own. Could you do me a huge favor and PM me on how you made yours exactly? It looks pretty professionally done from the pictures. Thank you very much for any help. I'm thinking that these "oarfoot" type stocks would also work beautifully on AKs and FALs. In fact, I already have thumbhole stocks left over for both of them.

GJJ
06-23-2006, 1:50 PM
This is the best version I have seen. Bummer that you can't get at the safety with your right hand.

DOJ - making rifles more dangerous every day.

Paradiddle
06-23-2006, 2:35 PM
You are correct.
[My buddy filled in the hole with Brownells Acraglas.

Did he use the Acraglass Gel or the standard Acraglass?

I'm curious.

Jeff

Dump1567
06-23-2006, 3:20 PM
*****************Update********************
It wasn't Acraglas, but Home Depot bought resin.

Here's what I think he did. Duct tape one side. Pour in standard mixed Acraglas until flush. Let dry. Remove tape and pour in more on the other side until flush. When he did that, it cracked and more had to be used on the orig. side. He orig. had a palm indentation for me, but I decided to play it safe and went flush. You will get air bubbles & sanding will be required. When dry, I painted it with Brownells AlumaHyde II. This stock doesn't come with any hardware. You'll need an A2 buttplate, both screws, and grip screw to attach (assuming you already have a buffer tube and A2 spacer). Parts needed can be ordered from Brownells. I'm sure there's other ways to fill this in. Mine really doesn't look too pretty, but that wasn't a concern of mine.

If you put on an ambi-safety, you'll need to remove stock material as the lever will rub. The ambi can be used as a thumb rest. If your a lefty like me, your GTD.

I also noticed the safety detent spring hole was too deep in the stock. Buy an extra spring and cut to length. You'll need to hold this spring down while you slide on the stock. Pulling the stock off will probably bend the spring.

Good Luck on your new project.:)

Paradiddle
06-23-2006, 3:35 PM
Here's what I think he did. Duct tape one side. Pour in standard mixed Acraglas until flush. Let dry. Remove tape and pour in more on the other side until flush. When he did that, it cracked and more had to be used on the orig. side. He orig. had a palm indentation for me, but I decided to play it safe and went flush. You will get air bubbles & sanding will be required. When dry, I painted it with Brownells AlumaHyde II. This stock doesn't come with any hardware. You'll need an A2 buttplate, both screws, and grip screw to attach (assuming you already have a buffer tube and A2 spacer). Parts needed can be ordered from Brownells. I'm sure there's other ways to fill this in. Mine really doesn't look too pretty, but that wasn't a concern of mine.

If you put on an ambi-safety, you'll need to remove stock material as the lever will rub. The ambi can be used as a thumb rest. If your a lefty like me, your GTD.

I also noticed the safety detent spring hole was too deep in the stock. Buy an extra spring and cut to length. You'll need to hold this spring down while you slide on the stock. Pulling the stock off will probably bend the spring.

Good Luck on your new project.:)

Cool - thanks. I may fill it with epoxy and then glass the outside so I have something to sand and paint.

Dump1567
06-23-2006, 5:27 PM
*****************Update********************


It wasn't Acraglas, but Home Depot bought resin.

Paradiddle
07-03-2006, 9:24 PM
I just filled mine in. Here is my technique.

I traced and cut a wood plug that fit snug in the hole (used some hardwood I had and a jig saw).

I sanded the stock where the wood would contact it.

I epoxy'd the wood in with Defcon 5 min 2 part epoxy (taped one side and poured/brushed the epoxy in from the other side You don't need much.

I then cut a piece of fiberglass that fit over the plugand maybe 1/8" up onto the stock, and filled it in with fiberglass resin. I brushed it in and then poured some in to fill the hole. The resin cured in about 20 minutes, then I flipped it over and did the other side. I filled past the edge of the fiberglass cloth so it dried smooth.

It worked great - since I didn't have to fill the entire hole the resin didn't crack and dried pretty smooth. I'll sand it and the entire stock (I don't like their texture finish) and spray it with Alumihyde from Brownells.

It added a little weight which is fine and it balances out the float tube on my upper.

I like the angle of this stock better then the Monsterman grip (I have both as well).

I'm pleased. Screw them and their fixed mag BS - I'm going sans pistol grip!

Jeff

~DEVO~
07-21-2006, 10:08 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Dump1567/SBR.jpg

I could have sworn this was discussed in the famous "RIFLE IDEA" thread awhile back (one year ago?).

I could see this working on my CAL-FAL.