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xYourLocalAR15x
06-20-2006, 5:43 PM
I know you're allowed to carry a handgun around your campsite... but, what about while hiking? I'm planning a trip to the INYO forest area and I've looked at their website and the only thing i could find was that I was not able to "fire" my weapon there. I tried calling the ranger number only to get a machine and a run around. It's a campsite (not in the middle of no where) Portagee Joe DWP or Independence Creek Area USFS are my choices for camping.

I would like to have my .45 on me at all times and that wont do anything to a bear so i will have bear spray on me also.

Hunter
06-20-2006, 7:36 PM
I know you're allowed to carry a handgun around your campsite... but, what about while hiking? I'm planning a trip to the INYO forest area and I've looked at their website and the only thing i could find was that I was not able to "fire" my weapon there. I tried calling the ranger number only to get a machine and a run around. It's a campsite (not in the middle of no where) Portagee Joe DWP or Independence Creek Area USFS are my choices for camping.

I would like to have my .45 on me at all times and that wont do anything to a bear so i will have bear spray on me also.

You can carry concealed around camp. But away from camp, you will need to have it visible. Normal belt holster would work fine, just don't cover it with a jacket or such. If you have a hunting license, so much the better. Jackrabbits are always open, even if there aren't any in the area you're in. But it gives you more reason to be carrying.:)

xYourLocalAR15x
06-20-2006, 7:58 PM
You can carry concealed around camp. But away from camp, you will need to have it visible. Normal belt holster would work fine, just don't cover it with a jacket or such. If you have a hunting license, so much the better. Jackrabbits are always open, even if there aren't any in the area you're in. But it gives you more reason to be carrying.:)


SWEET! thanks!

Do i need tags for coyote?

Prospector
06-20-2006, 8:01 PM
No tags for coyote. I believe you need a hunting license for that.

xYourLocalAR15x
06-20-2006, 8:39 PM
No tags for coyote. I believe you need a hunting license for that.


Got that already :)

Thanks guys! Very helpfulllll!

NRAhighpowershooter
06-21-2006, 4:14 PM
While I was into backpacking from when I was 18 up until my mid 30's (when my back started to act up) I always carried on my hip, either my 357 or my 1911A1.. I was more afraid of 2 legged animals than 4 legged ones... The forest service people or rangers never had a problem with me packing ( I was in natl' forests) but there were a few other hikers that gave me looks ranging from shock to disgust.. of which I could have cared lesss because I was heading up and in a LOT more miles than they would ever go....

M1A Rifleman
06-22-2006, 7:02 AM
You can carry concealed around camp. But away from camp, you will need to have it visible. Normal belt holster would work fine, just don't cover it with a jacket or such. If you have a hunting license, so much the better. Jackrabbits are always open, even if there aren't any in the area you're in. But it gives you more reason to be carrying.:)

The CA PC is clear that open carry is legal while hunting and fishing in an area where shooting is legal. Concealed carry is aparently not allowed, with the exception as stated above while in your camp, which is considered your home. Last I read it, carrying while hiking for instance (not hunting or fishing) is more difficult to define. It has something to do whith being in an un-incorporated County with a population less that something or other. Generally, this is no doubt met while in the NF or most BLM areas.

Hunter & High Power Shooter: Can you guys help on a better definition here :)

glen avon
06-22-2006, 7:15 AM
the folks over at packing.org can prolly help you out. this has been hashed out here on calguns a couple of times, find those threads and they will be instructive.

Hunter
06-22-2006, 7:06 PM
As Glen stated, please do a search for there is LOTS of discussion on this topic. In general, unloaded open carry is legal in most unincorporated areas for lawful activites. But having a hunting license and to some extent a fishing license will open a few more "doors" that allows one to have a concealed loaded handgun in the outdoors. The key in any situation is to make sure that firearms are indeed "lawfully allowed" in the area you want to travel while hiking/hunting/fishing. For example, walking down to the city park to go fishing would NOT be a good place to try and carry loaded:eek:

But to get back to the question about hiking/hunting/fishing in say the Sierras, the following information taken from the Californina Fireams Laws booklet http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf is helpful in understanding the benifits of having a hunting license in these matters.

**********************
From Page 32 of the "California Firearms Laws 2006"

4. POSSESSION AND TRANSPORTATION OF CONCEALED WEAPONS
Carrying a Concealed Handgun Without a License on One's Person or Concealed in a Vehicle
Pursuant to Penal Code section 12025, a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm
when he or she does any of the following:

• Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control, any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
• Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
• Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant
any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

NOTE: A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not considered "concealed" as it applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code § 12025(f).)

But an exception to PC 12025 is in place to allow concealed carry for hunters and fishermen.
So if you are out stomping around the woods hunting game in season, you can carry loaded and
concealed. But you must have your hunting license and be engaged in hunting critters that are legally in season (aka jackrabbits, coyotes, ect) or a
fishing license (but make sure you have fishing gear!)

The exception of PC 12025 states:



Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or
possession of a firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the
following:

• Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going
to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.


Now some place will prohibit general shooting but will allow hunting.


Loaded Firearms in a Public Place
It is unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on one’s person or in a vehicle while in any public
place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm.
(Penal Code § 12031(a)(1).)

So having a hunting license will help "grease the skids" if one runs into LEO in these areas as there is an exception to this:



Exceptions
The prohibition against possessing loaded firearms in a public place does not apply to:
• Any person hunting in an area where firearm possession and hunting is otherwise
lawful. (Penal Code § 12031(i).)

Then the general "protecting your domicile" clause for your campsite



Firearms in the Home or Business
Any person over the age of 18 who is not prohibited from possessing firearms, and if
otherwise lawful, may keep and carry a firearm or have a firearm loaded at his or her place
of residence, temporary residence, campsite, or on private property owned or lawfully
possessed by the person. (Penal Code §§ 12026, 12031(h) and (l).)

But pay close attention to the words "if otherwise lawful" as one can camp in State Parks, Game refuges, that prohibit the open possession of a firearm, loaded or not. See the following statement:


NOTE: A person’s place of business, residence, temporary residence, campsite, or private
property may be located in areas where possession of handguns or other firearms, whether
loaded or unloaded, is otherwise prohibited. Such areas include, but are not limited to,
state, federal, or private game reserves or refuges, federal and state parks, and other public
lands. Questions regarding the applicability of such laws should be directed to your sheriff
or chief of police, federal or state fish and game officers, or federal or state park rangers.

So if any of this sounds like it would fit your activities, I would highly suggest that one does a little more research to get familiar with the "cans and cannots" of carrying an unloaded or loaded handgun in the outdoors. Also there is a Fish and Game code that says a loaded magazine in the gun (but not one in the chamber) IS NOT a loaded firearm while in unicorporated areas. So again, a little more freedom for hunters.

xrMike
06-23-2006, 1:08 PM
The forest service people or rangers never had a problem with me packing ( I was in natl' forests) but there were a few other hikers that gave me looks ranging from shock to disgust.. of which I could have cared lesss because I was heading up and in a LOT more miles than they would ever go....Sounds like your typical leftist, sierra clubbing, environmentalist tree-hugging greenies...

NRAhighpowershooter
06-23-2006, 4:01 PM
Sounds like your typical leftist, sierra clubbing, environmentalist tree-hugging greenies...

yup... I had one incidence about 22 years ago.. the group I was with ran into an unleashed pit bull on a trail.. we were about 12 miles in.. I had my 1911 (along with 6 full 8rnd mags)already out and had just flicked off the safety when the dogs supposed owners came... a few words were exchanged ( i basically told them if the dog had even lifted a paw towards me he would have bought it.....) I reported it to the rangers when we finally came out about a week later... the ranger told me I should have wasted to dog as an unleashed dog had no business in the wilderness and was a threat to hikers and animals.

TrailerparkTrash
07-09-2006, 8:51 AM
Just to add more confusion............About 5 years ago now, my best friend (who retired as a Game Warden in CA) and is now a criminal defense attorney (he went to the "dark side") gave me a CA Attorney General opinion. That opinion specifically dealt with carrying loaded firearms in one's vehicle in Nat'l forests. The attorney general at the time the opinion was written was Dan Lungren.

Lungren's opinion was that because Nat'l forrest land is "federal" land, but that land is in CA "state" land, that having a LOADED firearm in one's vehicle is NOT illegal. (Again, that was according to Lungren's office opinion).

Now, For the past year, I've been getting headaches looking up in the CA DOJ archives for a copy of that opinion. I CAN NOT find it! The AG's opinions go back for more than 10 years and I can not find that darn opinion to save my life! Lungren's opinion came out I believe it was his last year as state AG. That wasn't more than 10 years ago either!

I've even asked my retired game warden/hunting partner and he too is amazed that he can not find it on the web.

I'm wondering if for some reason the current AG (BILL LOCKYER-gunsup) for some reason had that particular opinion removed from the old archives. Nothing surprises me with Kalivornia (said with thick "soviet" accent) anymore!!!

I personally am one of the few active LEO's that gets soooo terribly angry at these restrictive gun laws for law abiding citizens! I know I can carry and possess certain weapons that the average honest citizen can't. However, I feel so darn frustrated because it is not fair. I have kids that one day will grow up and won't be able to possess a good chunk of my gun/magazine collection unless they too become cops or move out of state! I don't want them to become LEO's!

Sorry for the soap box, it just pi$$ez me off!

M1A Rifleman
07-10-2006, 8:58 AM
While hunting, the F&G codes does allow loaded weapons in a vehicle - rounds in the mag - not the chamber. It is not specific as to rifle or handgun, but the presumption is it is the weapon used for hunting. I suppose there could be an issue if your hunting with a rifle and get caught with a loaded handgun. It would be nice to have the opinion you mention. However, I think this issue is also sort of addressed in the 2006 (and previous years) gun laws book on the DOJ web.

CowtownBallin
07-10-2006, 10:51 AM
So how do you keep one out of the chamber on a revolver? :p

M1A Rifleman
07-10-2006, 10:58 AM
Beats me, I did'nt write the reg. Maybe only load 5 ?

Hunter
07-10-2006, 12:39 PM
So how do you keep one out of the chamber on a revolver? :p

Everytime I have been checked over the years, they have ignore the revolvers, as they considered the cylinder the "magazine". I will typically get checked every year or so when out deer hunting, as I always have a 22 revolver with me (its been about 2 yrs, so probably due this season:rolleyes: ). Anyway, I remember driving with my dad around forestville when I was just learning to hunt. The main road passed the game refuge up there and it is also the boundary for it. Well the wardens set up a station there and would stop anyone that drives by looking for a loaded firearm. They stopped us and checked our firearms for a round in the chamber (the magazines where full). During this check, I remember that my dad had his revolver on his hip and they never even asked to see it. But for all of the other rifles in the truck (dad and two boys) they checked each and everyone plus a ruger semi-auto .22 pistol we had. That was the first time I learned the difference between a loaded pistol magazine and a revolver.

JeffCinSac
07-20-2006, 6:18 AM
To the original poster, regarding packing while in Inyo National Forest:

The law on open carry of a firearm while hiking, but NOT hunting, has vexed me for some time. I've even consulted with the CA DOJ, and they knew less than I did. This is the problem. Concealed carry is prohibited if you are not hunting (which you are not); we know that. Open carry, however, is only prohibited "while in any public place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm." See Penal Code § 12031(a)(1). Thus, if you are in a part of the national forest in which discharge of a firearm is permitted, you may pack openly (not concealed). But there are regulations regarding where and when you may discharge a firearm. For example, you (generally) may not discharge within 150 yards of a campground, or across a road, or across a lake, etc. Thus, packing openly in those areas is ILLEGAL.

Specifically, for the original poster, Inyo National Forest says that discharge of a firearm is also prohibited within "developed recreation areas" and "occupied areas". Developed recreation areas include the Mono Basin National Forest Scenic Area, Lundy Canyon, Lee Vining Canyon, June Lake Loop, the Mammoth area, Reds Meadow area, Convict Lake, McGee Creek canyon, Rock Creek Canyon, Bishop Creek Canyon, Big Pine Canyon, Onion Valley, Whitney Portal, Horseshoe Meadows, the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest and any Research Natural Area. That's a lot of places! And what, exactly, does "occupied area" mean? Any place where there are people? If so, forget about openly packing while on a popular trail.

My point is not to discourage you. But I believe this set of laws is expressly designed to discourage people like us from packing in the woods unless we are hunting. Ideally, the weapon would be concealed in a safepacker or some such, to prevent damage and to spare you the sideways looks you'd get from the granolas. But then you would be in violation of a different PC. I intend to use this set of legal circumstances in applying for my CCW. In short, I will inform the sheriff that it is virtually impossible to pack in the woods without breaking the law if you are not a hunter and do not possess a valid CCW. As a law abiding citizen, I do not want to break the law, but I am not willing to go into the middle of nowhere without protection. Hence, I need a CCW.

Just be extra careful in Inyo, because of the "developed recreation area" stuff.

-J

Hunter
07-20-2006, 7:22 AM
To the original poster, regarding packing while in Inyo National Forest:

The law on open carry of a firearm while hiking, but NOT hunting, has vexed me for some time. I've even consulted with the CA DOJ, and they knew less than I did. This is the problem. Concealed carry is prohibited if you are not hunting (which you are not); we know that. Open carry, however, is only prohibited "while in any public place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm." See Penal Code § 12031(a)(1). Thus, if you are in a part of the national forest in which discharge of a firearm is permitted, you may pack openly (not concealed). But there are regulations regarding where and when you may discharge a firearm. For example, you (generally) may not discharge within 150 yards of a campground, or across a road, or across a lake, etc. Thus, packing openly in those areas is ILLEGAL.

Specifically, for the original poster, Inyo National Forest says that discharge of a firearm is also prohibited within "developed recreation areas" and "occupied areas". Developed recreation areas include the Mono Basin National Forest Scenic Area, Lundy Canyon, Lee Vining Canyon, June Lake Loop, the Mammoth area, Reds Meadow area, Convict Lake, McGee Creek canyon, Rock Creek Canyon, Bishop Creek Canyon, Big Pine Canyon, Onion Valley, Whitney Portal, Horseshoe Meadows, the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest and any Research Natural Area. That's a lot of places! And what, exactly, does "occupied area" mean? Any place where there are people? If so, forget about openly packing while on a popular trail.

My point is not to discourage you. But I believe this set of laws is expressly designed to discourage people like us from packing in the woods unless we are hunting. Ideally, the weapon would be concealed in a safepacker or some such, to prevent damage and to spare you the sideways looks you'd get from the granolas. But then you would be in violation of a different PC. I intend to use this set of legal circumstances in applying for my CCW. In short, I will inform the sheriff that it is virtually impossible to pack in the woods without breaking the law if you are not a hunter and do not possess a valid CCW. As a law abiding citizen, I do not want to break the law, but I am not willing to go into the middle of nowhere without protection. Hence, I need a CCW.

Just be extra careful in Inyo, because of the "developed recreation area" stuff.

-J

First the hunting exemptions also applies to fishing so having a fishing license and some tackle in your pack will do the same.

On the other hand, if you fail in getting a CCW, you could just spend 8hrs one saturday in a hunter education class and then get your hunting license. I think having a hunting license is the some of the cheapest insurance( about $2.50 month!) when dealing with the gray areas of our gun laws.

Nylo
07-21-2006, 9:26 AM
Would you happen to know the code to this?

BTW: great informative post. I love it when someone backs their info with Kali codes! Thanks!

Also there is a Fish and Game code that says a loaded magazine in the gun (but not one in the chamber) IS NOT a loaded firearm while in unicorporated areas. So again, a little more freedom for hunters.

Hunter
07-22-2006, 12:31 AM
Would you happen to know the code to this?

BTW: great informative post. I love it when someone backs their info with Kali codes! Thanks!

You can go here for the full text:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
Search in the "Fish and Game Code" section for "loaded firearm definition"


Fish and Game Code 2006. It is unlawful to possess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any
vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or
along or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way
open to the public.
A rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes
of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in the
firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells are in the
magazine. The provisions of this section shall not apply to peace officers
or members of the armed forces of this State or the United States,
while on duty or going to or returning from duty.