PDA

View Full Version : New Cali Legal Ak Approved By Doj!!!!


Solidsnake87
06-19-2006, 11:13 PM
Supposedly there is a new cali legal ak. I just stumbled on the link to it. They don't have any further info on it other than its CA legal and approved by the doj. Here is the link http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.html Does anybody have any further info on it???? I'm gonna be pissed if its a good gun cuz I just got my parts kit and ordered my NDS-3.

PanzerAce
06-19-2006, 11:15 PM
looks illegal as hell to me, but maybe they just dont have a real picture up yet. Plus, 750 for a AK? maybe for 2 or 3, but not for just one.

Charliegone
06-19-2006, 11:18 PM
You have got to be s***** me man? :eek:

I would have to guess that it is either in some way similar to the PAR's pump action or NOT semi-auto.

blkA4alb
06-19-2006, 11:18 PM
Removed piston/gas block area? Bolt action?

bwiese
06-19-2006, 11:19 PM
Could be a manually-cycled gun on off-list receiver - i.e., no gas system, closed gas port.

Therefore, it's not a semauto rifle - therefore, it's not an AW. Therefore, it's legal, and can take a detachable mag.

PanzerAce
06-19-2006, 11:20 PM
Removed piston/gas block area? Bolt action?

+1. assuming that the picture they have is actually what it looks like, that seems to be the only way it could go.

But am I the only one that thinks that 750 is a little much for a nuetered AK?

thmpr
06-19-2006, 11:22 PM
Interesting.... I wonder how they fixed the mag since the DOJ has claimed the mags must be permanently fixed to the rifle...:confused:

PanzerAce
06-19-2006, 11:25 PM
Interesting.... I wonder how they fixed the mag since the DOJ has claimed the mags must be permanently fixed to the rifle...:confused:

I dont think it is a fixed mag, since even then it would be illegal (looks like a 30 rounder to me). So im laying my money on a no gas system rifle...

Charliegone
06-19-2006, 11:26 PM
Hmm I wonder who's making them? Vulcan, Armory/Global, Vector, Red Jacket, ORF, Ewbanks?

blkA4alb
06-19-2006, 11:28 PM
Hmm I wonder who's making them? Vulcan, Armory/Global, Vector, Red Jacket, ORF, Ewbanks?
Knowing our luck, Hesse :p .

thmpr
06-19-2006, 11:30 PM
I dont think it is a fixed mag, since even then it would be illegal (looks like a 30 rounder to me). So im laying my money on a no gas system rifle...


Hey Panzer... I think your right.... I want to see a closer pic of it... i wouldnt buy it...$750....damn thats steep!

EBWhite
06-19-2006, 11:30 PM
I bet it is a hesse mess! Its prob semi auto with a fixed mag that is welded onto the receiver.

Charliegone
06-19-2006, 11:31 PM
Knowing our luck, Hesse :p .

I sure hope not.:D

PLINK
06-19-2006, 11:31 PM
So is someone going to follow up with Alantic Firearms to get the 411? Not that I really care at that price but would like to see their letter of DOJ opinion.

PanzerAce
06-19-2006, 11:34 PM
I bet it is a hesse mess! Its prob semi auto with a fixed mag that is welded onto the receiver.

why the 30 rounder then? also, I dont think any company would sell a firearm that you had to partially disasemble to load

(Im not counting the AR, cause thats a matter of one pin)

EBWhite
06-19-2006, 11:40 PM
Maybe its a 30rd mag converted to 10 rds?

I do agree with you Panzer, it is most likely bolt action which is worthless....

PanzerAce
06-19-2006, 11:42 PM
Maybe its a 30rd mag converted to 10 rds?

I do agree with you Panzer, it is most likely bolt action which is worthless....

well....not ENTIRELY worthless, I would give them 10 bucks for it, just to take the trigger assembly and the like off it and put them in my NDS-3 :D

handbook
06-20-2006, 1:13 AM
look at the picture's filename: V47classicpoly1.jpg
even looks similar to the crap on Vulcan's website

Ford8N
06-20-2006, 6:15 AM
I would really like to see the documentation and correspondence that Atlantic and the DOJ had about making an AK Kali legal. Someone should ask Atlantic for a copy of the "permission slip" from the DOJ and post it here. I asked Entreprise for a copy of their "permission slip" from the DOJ about the FAL and they wouldn't show it to me. I like to see things in writing.

And it would help show some of the FFL's in this state, who say anyone getting an OLL is going to go to jail, that AK's have the DOJ's blessing.:D

rssslvr
06-20-2006, 4:46 PM
They are built by Red jacket arms and built on an armory usa receiver.The mag is fixed and is 10rnd.They load from the side(oops loads from the rear)of the mag with the right hand while the left hand compresses the spring with a lever.They have a DOJ letter of aproval.I talked to a guy named Blane at atlantic just a few min ago

downey
06-20-2006, 4:58 PM
Do they have a letter of approval for the AR-15 as well?

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=213

"approved by the CA Dept of Justice and comes with approval letter"

Liberty Rules
06-20-2006, 5:00 PM
I talked to a guy named Blane at atlantic just a few min ago

Blaine runs the show at Atlantic so that IS the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Atlantic is a good vendor.

thmpr
06-20-2006, 5:01 PM
Do they have a letter of approval for the AR-15 as well?

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=213

"approved by the CA Dept of Justice and comes with approval letter"


Is it truly permanent?:confused:

Solidsnake87
06-20-2006, 5:05 PM
I just got an e-mail back. He respnded to my questions as follows:

Is it really true that there is a cali legal AK? yes that is why we list it as such Can you give me more info about it????? Is the picture on your site the real picture of the firearm????????it is a picture of the prototype yes Is it made in the US? yes does it use the AK parts or action?yes it is a AK47 is that a 10 rnd mag disguised as a 30 rnd mag?WE ARE NOW BUILDING THEM WITH A FIXED 20 ROUND MAG BODY BUT IT WILL ONLY ACCEPT A MAX CAPACITY OF 10 ROUNDS Is it a fixed mag???????????YES PER THE CA DOJ REQUIREMENTS How does it load if fixed??? WE HAVE A PATENTED DESIGN THAT ALLOWS LOADING FROM THE REAR OF THE MAG

Solidsnake87
06-20-2006, 5:05 PM
I sent another e-mail asking about whether it is semi or not but i'm waiting for the reply

rssslvr
06-20-2006, 5:10 PM
He told me that yes it is semi auto,He said it is an AK and the only thing that is different is the mag is permenatly attached and the mag itself

sac7000
06-20-2006, 5:41 PM
Whoever is able to get a copy of the DOJ approval letter, be sure and post it so that others can download and print it out to show FFL's who are afraid to transfer.

PanzerAce
06-20-2006, 5:43 PM
well, I guess we know how it works, but I still would not pay 750 for a fixed mag AK. (Or, for that matter, any AK, exluding stuff like the PSL)

sac7000
06-20-2006, 5:44 PM
Is it truly permanent?:confused:

I dunno, according to the last memo from DOJ nothing is permanent.

rssslvr
06-20-2006, 5:44 PM
Call atlantic and ask them to fax a copy I am sure they would.I would do it but I don't have a fax machine right now

rssslvr
06-20-2006, 5:45 PM
well, I guess we know how it works, but I still would not pay 750 for a fixed mag AK. (Or, for that matter, any AK, exluding stuff like the PSL)
Yeah 750 is pretty steep

sac7000
06-20-2006, 5:59 PM
Just fired off a " request to purchase " to Atlantic along with a request for a copy of the DOJ approval letter so that my local FLL will transfer the weapon.

I'll post photos as soon as the deal is complete and weapon is shipped to my FFL

sac7000
06-20-2006, 6:01 PM
Yeah 750 is pretty steep

Yeah it's steep but wtf, it's only money.... And if you put on plastic it's like you don't even notice it missing... :)

rssslvr
06-20-2006, 6:04 PM
Yeah it's steep but wtf, it's only money.... And if you put on plastic it's like you don't even notice it missing... :)
I wish I could have that kind of attitude about it

JHC
06-20-2006, 6:09 PM
Looks like they used this guys idea on their mag
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=27714&highlight=fixed+mag+idea

Blue
06-20-2006, 6:17 PM
This is the response they gave me:

"Real AK with threaded barrel, flash hider, bayonet lug etc, the rifle has a fixed mag with a patented design that allows loading from the rear of the mag, the rifle has been approved by the CA DOJ and comes with a copy of the approval letter etc. "

JPglee1
06-20-2006, 6:19 PM
WE HAVE A PATENTED DESIGN THAT ALLOWS LOADING FROM THE REAR OF THE MAG


Hrm, I have working drawings of that exact same idea/setup that I drew and then sent certified, return-receipt thru the USPS to myself in 2001, wonder who came up with it "first" hehehe :eek:


JP

Fate
06-20-2006, 7:24 PM
I'd like to see the DOJ approval letter for their AR-15.

dmckean44
06-20-2006, 7:24 PM
When someone gets one of these post some pictures so we can see how it loads. If it's easy enought I might be interested in one.

I wonder how difficult it would be to convert one of these back after I move to a free state.

sac7000
06-20-2006, 7:43 PM
I'd like to see the DOJ approval letter for their AR-15.

Waiting for FAX to come in from ATlantic right now...they may have closed the shop for the day so I may not get it till tomorrow morning..

I will post it upon it's arrival for all to see.....

sac7000
06-20-2006, 7:48 PM
When someone gets one of these post some pictures so we can see how it loads. If it's easy enought I might be interested in one.

I wonder how difficult it would be to convert one of these back after I move to a free state.

I think that's the numma one quesiton right now ...and why did DOJ approve a rifle that most likely can be converted to " capacity to accept ?"

69Mach1
06-20-2006, 7:58 PM
Screw the rifle, when does the magazine or magazine conversion go on sale? I want to build one myself.

Charliegone
06-20-2006, 8:29 PM
Screw the rifle, when does the magazine or magazine conversion go on sale? I want to build one myself.

Thats what I'm saying...:D

6172crew
06-20-2006, 8:45 PM
When I talked with Atlantic firearms he said he had a AR, AK, and handgun versions of each that he was getting approved by **** and freinds.

Cato
06-20-2006, 11:11 PM
We are all so pathetic.

m1aowner
06-21-2006, 12:48 AM
Good idea for a CA compliant AK. Fun range gun, but that's where it ends. I wouldn't be grabing that rifle from the safe if the SHTF. I'd rather build a gripless stick with detachable mags. However, the introdcution of this rifle might be a precursor for a big AK boom in CA. Might have to pick up some receivers and kits now.

bg
06-21-2006, 4:36 AM
Looks like there are a variety of different cal legal arms.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/california_legal.html

One thing I like about the website, it had this link avail. Might
come in helpful for members here. I didn't know there were so
many FFLs' this close to me. You may find some closer to you
as well...>
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/find.html
http://www.gunbroker.com/user/dealernetwork.asp

Ford8N
06-21-2006, 6:26 AM
When I talked with Atlantic firearms he said he had a AR, AK, and handgun versions of each that he was getting approved by **** and freinds.


HANDGUN AK!?!

:cool:

kenc9
06-21-2006, 8:41 AM
The best thing I can think of about these AK's and the letter is that now no one can say that AK's are a banned rifle...but...only what evil features it may have. With the allowed AR/AK's that DOJ has now allowed it now boils down to only the features.

-ken

HKdude
06-21-2006, 10:20 AM
Interesting.... I wonder how they fixed the mag since the DOJ has claimed the mags must be permanently fixed to the rifle...:confused:

I sent them an e-mail and asked the same thing. I also asked if possible to return it to removable mag configuration when out of state. They said it was not possible.:(

Steve

kAnJii
06-21-2006, 10:21 AM
The copy of the DOJ approved for AR-15...isn't that the same as the one from the manufacturer like Bushmaster??:confused:

sac7000
06-21-2006, 12:08 PM
The copy of the DOJ approved for AR-15...isn't that the same as the one from the manufacturer like Bushmaster??:confused:

No, it would specifically address the weapon in question as was the letter from DOJ which approved Bushmaster's Carbon 15 TLC for legal sale in California

sac7000
06-21-2006, 5:20 PM
DOJ letter of approval received today from Atlantic.


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/sac7000/DOJ_Aprovall_CAK47R_02.jpg

Charliegone
06-21-2006, 5:41 PM
Wow. Can't believe (you know who) wrote this..Red Jacket Firearms ehhh...I've heard some good things about them. Here is their website.

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/

OOHHh I see I can not speak the forbidden name here. :)

PLINK
06-21-2006, 5:45 PM
That letter is dated before the May 09, 2006 memo though. I would ask Alantic if they plan on resubmitting for approval based on the "New" DOJ opinion. The AR they sell is Vulcan.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=213

The letter for Vulcan is posted in this thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34295

PanzerAce
06-21-2006, 6:14 PM
"well out of the design characteristics of the AK"

what, just by welding a mag in the design suddenly is massivly changed? give me a couple minutes with some tools and I could get that mag out easily I bet.

sac7000
06-21-2006, 7:54 PM
Admin, Moderator, Guru Forum Person...

Atlantic Firearms is attempting register on calguns in order to read and comment in this thread but is having problems with calguns accepting his email address.

Calguns registration system indicates his email address is banned?

" Al
We tried to register with the forum but are having problems with it we keep getting a response back that our email address has been banned, so we emailed the admin to request some help with this.Thanks for the heads up on the thread we will try to jump on there and answer some of the questions .

Thank You
Blaine Bunting, President "

dmckean44
06-21-2006, 7:55 PM
It's not uncommon for forums to ban all AOL email addresses.

Solidsnake87
06-21-2006, 9:09 PM
I'm gonna shoot him an e-mail asking to update his site with lots of pictures.

sac7000
06-21-2006, 10:49 PM
---- Original Message -----
From: sac7000
To: redstick-firearms.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:07 PM
Subject: California legal AK47?


Hello,

Is it true you guys are building a California DOJ approved AK-47?

thanks,

sac7000

Reply from Redstick Firearms:

yes indeedy we are :) , got the first batch curing in the paint oven now . I expect them to be at my distributor [Atlantic Firearms] by the end of next week . Rifle is semi-auto , has a threaded barrel and bayonet lug and pistol grip . It feed's through a modified 20 rounder which is permently attached to the weapon . It loads through the rear of the mag , work's better then you might think and looks cool as hell .

sac7000
06-21-2006, 10:54 PM
I'm gonna shoot him an e-mail asking to update his site with lots of pictures.

If my local FFL agrees to accept shipment and dros one for me, I'll post lots of pictures.

PanzerAce
06-21-2006, 11:55 PM
hmmm, I actually wish that more big distributors (Atlantic, Impact guns, etc) would sign up for this forum. Then we could actually ask questions on here, and everybody would get an answer, as opposed to emails.

Atlantic Firearms
06-23-2006, 3:04 PM
Ok here is the general scoop with the rifle

Contract built for us by Red Jacket Firearms
5 year factory warranty
Global Trades / Armory USA receiver
Flash hider
Threaded barrel
Pistol grip
Slant brake
Bayonet lug
Black poly US furniture set,by K-Var at this time
Dura Cote finish
Tapco G2 fire control
Ca DOJ approval letter
Comes with rifle case for shipping protection

The rifle is legal because it has a patent pending fixed 10 round max capacity design that nullifies the assault weapons classification.The rifle has been approved by the CA Doj Firearms division.

Thank You
Blaine Bunting / Atlantic Firearms,llc

6172crew
06-23-2006, 3:07 PM
Blaine, thanks for the info, can the Ak be brought back to normal if we move from the state of CA?

BTW thanks for the Bobcat.;)

donger
06-23-2006, 3:35 PM
^^^
What he asked.

Atlantic Firearms
06-23-2006, 6:22 PM
The mags are permanently attached via a weld ,we are not willing to risk a liability lawsuit just to pin or screw the mag in place. Yes theoretically you could remove the weld if you wanted to reconvert the rifle but it would take a little time & effort.If you are moving out of state sell the rifle and buy another that is in the non ca format. Thank You Atlantic Firearms,llc

morepoop4u
06-23-2006, 6:28 PM
will you sell those modified mags seperate as well for us DIYers:D

wayoutwest
06-23-2006, 6:31 PM
will you sell those modified mags seperate as well for us DIYers:D

+1 to what he said

sac7000
06-23-2006, 7:23 PM
So I ran the CA legal AK DOJ approval letter by my local FFL today and just as I suspected, he was concerned about the " 58 local DA's " part and requested that I get the ok from my local District Attorney.

The visit to the local DA went just as I suspected, no commitment but if I was concerned I should hire a lawyer. Hire a lawyer?

Somehow I don't think I am going to spend $750 plus shipping, dros, and dealer transfer fee and whatever fee the laywer is going to charge me to prove to the FFL he won't go to jail for transfering a rifle already approved by the California DOJ....

Still the DA clerk did take a copy of the DOJ approval letter and a copy of the Atlantic website's photo of the rifle in question and said they would place it on the DA's desk for his review. She didn't say yes or no but kept repeating the part about how the DOJ has approved the rifle and I should consider hiring a lawyer to interpet it's legality.

It's legality? What? Hello, is there anybody in there????

Anyway, it's really a shame the DOJ approval letter for CA legal AK is so vastly different from the DOJ approval letter for the Bushmaster Carbon 15. No " 58 DA's " line of boolsheet in it. Just that the rifle is approved for sale and use in California. Easy for gunshy FFL's to understand and feel no fear of Jack-booted thugs dragging them off to prison for the importation of assault weapons.

I need another beer...

Dump1567
06-23-2006, 7:51 PM
So I ran the CA legal AK DOJ approval letter by my local FFL today and just as I suspected, he was concerned about the " 58 local DA's " part and requested that I get the ok from my local District Attorney.

The visit to the local DA went just as I suspected, no commitment but if I was concerned I should hire a lawyer. Hire a lawyer?

Somehow I don't think I am going to spend $750 plus shipping, dros, and dealer transfer fee and whatever fee the laywer is going to charge me to prove to the FFL he won't go to jail for transfering a rifle already approved by the California DOJ....

Still the DA clerk did take a copy of the DOJ approval letter and a copy of the Atlantic website's photo of the rifle in question and said they would place it on the DA's desk for his review. She didn't say yes or no but kept repeating the part about how the DOJ has approved the rifle and I should consider hiring a lawyer to interpet it's legality.

It's legality? What? Hello, is there anybody in there????

Anyway, it's really a shame the DOJ approval letter for CA legal AK is so vastly different from the DOJ approval letter for the Bushmaster Carbon 15. No " 58 DA's " line of boolsheet in it. Just that the rifle is approved for sale and use in California. Easy for gunshy FFL's to understand and feel no fear of Jack-booted thugs dragging them off to prison for the importation of assault weapons.

I need another beer...

Just white out the part of the letter you don't like and copy it. The street cop won't know the wiser.;)

Dump1567
06-23-2006, 7:59 PM
Here. Now your as legal as all this nonsense:eek: .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Dump1567/DOJ_Aprovall_CAK47R_02-1.jpg

sac7000
06-23-2006, 8:20 PM
Here. Now your as legal as all this nonsense:eek: .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Dump1567/DOJ_Aprovall_CAK47R_02-1.jpg

Hmm... darn white out....stuff just leaked out...got all over my desk...

errr..no wait, cheap inkjet printer....musta skipped a few lines.... or did it?


Yep, hot off the fax, here ya go.....

Dump1567
06-23-2006, 8:24 PM
Hmm... darn white out....stuff just leaked out...got all over my desk...

That was actually done with our old forgotten friend Paintbrush:D .

WokMaster1
06-23-2006, 11:13 PM
Quote "For evidentiary value we will keep your examplar as evidence of the modifications we have approved" quote.

Deep down I knew that guy always wanted an AK. Evidentiary my butt.;)

bonjing
06-23-2006, 11:22 PM
Quote "For evidentiary value we will keep your examplar as evidence of the modifications we have approved" quote.

Deep down I knew that guy always wanted an AK. Evidentiary my butt.;)


i hope they atleast paid for the darn thing :mad:

TKo_Productions
06-24-2006, 3:09 AM
i hope they atleast paid for the darn thing :mad:

nope, and if they did, they'd only be passing on the cost to you and I.

Atlantic Firearms
06-24-2006, 5:14 AM
The DOJ letter issued to us for the CAK 147 reads almost exactly the same as the one for the Vulcan Arms CA legal AR15 .223 & .308 lowers and I believe the FAB 10 . Much like most of the ATF rules & regs they like make it a bit confusing and leave a door open if possible. Just like how they word the mag needs not be easily removed, who defines easily ? In Maryland when we submit handgun paperwork for approval they return it to us as( not disapproved) so they do not have to take responsibility if someone is approved then commits a crime wiht the pistol they bought. Thank You Atlantic Firearms, llc

esskay
06-24-2006, 7:43 AM
In Maryland when we submit handgun paperwork for approval they return it to us as( not disapproved) so they do not have to take responsibility if someone is approved then commits a crime wiht the pistol they bought.

Ha! This is classic. Rather than getting a "stamp of approval" they give you a "Stamp of Not Disapproval" How absurd.

rocknut
06-27-2006, 5:27 PM
I'd like to know how you are able to release an ar or ak style pistol. I wasn't under the impression that a fixed magazine makes those legal.

JHC
06-27-2006, 5:31 PM
I dont care how they do it, I just want them to get theirs approved so the door to Cal legal AK pistol ownership is flung open

Atlantic Firearms
06-28-2006, 4:09 AM
We have a CA Legal AK47 semi auto rifle, we do not have a CA pistol .

JHC
06-28-2006, 4:46 AM
That's a shame, I think you'd sell alot of them here.

Atlantic Firearms
07-08-2006, 5:44 AM
FYI , we just received a shipment of black AK bayonets and will be offering these free with the CAK 147R rifles while supplies last.

JPglee1
07-08-2006, 7:21 AM
We have a CA Legal AK47 semi auto rifle, we do not have a CA pistol .


AK pistol with perm. attached SKS magazine, flip the mag down and load thru the bottom.


Make a couple and submit them for drop testing, the AK design will pass the drop tests no problem.

If you made an AK pistol I WOULD pay $750.00 for that.



JP