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13204u
11-08-2010, 12:51 PM
So I recently visited my father in southern california. He has been a firearms collector for years. He mainly likes the curio relic stuff and has a very nice domestic as well as foreign military small arms collection. It had been awhile since both of us had been out shooting. I stopped by his place and as I was there he was pulling a couple of rifles out of the safe to take to the range when he pulled out a particular 91/30 nagant. I had never seen this particular one of his before, I knew he had several, but this particular one was pretty beat up. Apparently he bought it sometime in the early 90's for $30 at a gun show. He bought it just as a beater but never got around to shooting it and it sat in the back of the safe for years till he spotted it recently. He said he didnt really plan on doing anything with it and asked me if I wanted it. Not being one to turn down a free rifle, I said sure and he gave it to me on the spot.

I didn't take it to the range with us because even he didn't know what condition it was in in terms of firing capability. All he did was buy it and take it home and never used it. The rifle itself is a Izhevsk 1943 rifle. To say this thing is a beater is putting it lightly. First off it has no numbers matching anything. All parts are from the same factory, but not the same rifle. The bore itself has some rust pitting, but it is not the worst I have seen. The rifling appears to be strong and it passes a bullet easily. The finish on the receiver can be called rough at best and the bluing has worn off on a ton of places. This thing looks like it did actually fight in a war somewhere for some time.

So my question to you, since this is my first mosin. What should I do to prep this thing to be fired? Anything I should pay attention to or worry about? He gave me a firing pin protrusion gauge, and a sling for it and said good look. I am kinda clueless at this point as this is the only bolt gun I have ever owned let alone milsurplus.

MikeH1
11-08-2010, 1:07 PM
Can't beat a free Mosin rifle, they're fun to shoot, and easy to get parts and ammo for. Take it apart and clean it real good.

Here is a great forum just for Mosins, I learned a lot from this site

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?3-The-Collector-s-Forum-Mosin-Nagant-HQ

Also an old US Army Ordnance Corps manual from 1954

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/other/mosin.pdf

Another manual, this from one Century:

http://www.centuryarms.com/manuals/mosin-nagant-rifle-century.pdf

Vlad 11
11-08-2010, 1:14 PM
Yup , just give it a good once over. Take a little more time making sure the chamber is clear of residual cosmo. I'd disassemble the bolt (plenty of how-to's out there..very easy) usually its pretty gunky in there if it hasnt been cleaned. Check your protrusion , lube and your GTG. Headspace issues are exceedingly few in Mosins. Getting a few down the pipe will help loosen old corrosion so youll be able to really see the actual bore condition.

mosinnagantm9130
11-08-2010, 2:02 PM
MikeH1 and Vlad 11 gave good advice.

So, got any pics?

bplvr
11-08-2010, 3:00 PM
Two good sites for Mosins are www.7.62x54r.net and
www.mosinnagant.net.

Interloper
11-08-2010, 3:53 PM
Post some pics!
The beat to hell and gone Mosin's are the most interesting, in my opinion.
Anything interesting carved or stamped into the wood? What kind of finish is on it?

cmaher55
11-08-2010, 4:01 PM
Any import marks....? Could be a Vietnam bringback...? You might have a keeper there that you would not want to alter or clean up in any way...? Regards

13204u
11-09-2010, 9:36 AM
Ok, sorry for the lat reply I had an event to attend last night so I didn't get time to put this up. The rifle has no import marks that I can see. The wood is well worn and scratched and dinged, but nothing cool carved into it. The sling is clearly a repro as it is unmarked and way too nice to go with the actual rifle. I am pretty excited to take this guy out and see what it does. I kinda like the fact that it is worn, and gives me an excuse to use it more and not feel bad about it. I will take more pics if you guys want later. It looks alot better in the pic due to flash than in person.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/forsaken4u/DSCF5079.jpg

Peter.Steele
11-09-2010, 9:41 AM
Nah, that's probably an original sling. I don't recall seeing any markings on any of my slings either.

rojocorsa
11-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Nah, that's probably an original sling. I don't recall seeing any markings on any of my slings either.

My sling does have markings. A hammer and sickle on one cartouche, and an anchor in the other. I believe it's dated 1953; it's kinda hard to read.

Interloper
11-09-2010, 12:06 PM
It's a real sling, it's just post GPW.

No import marks? Look on the barrel under the front sight maybe? Are there any boxes stamped into wood or metal...maybe a box with a slash through it?
Could be a vet bring back...could even be a Finn capture that was never marked.
What kind of finish is on the stock? It doesn't look like the cheapo refurb stuff. Is it even shellac?

Peter.Steele
11-09-2010, 12:48 PM
It's a real sling, it's just post GPW.

No import marks? Look on the barrel under the front sight maybe? Are there any boxes stamped into wood or metal...maybe a box with a slash through it?
Could be a vet bring back...could even be a Finn capture that was never marked.
What kind of finish is on the stock? It doesn't look like the cheapo refurb stuff. Is it even shellac?


I was looking at that wood, too. It looks almost like the wood on my Finn, but the date is wrong for that. I've never heard of any Finn 1943's. Not 91/30's, anyway.

Flyin Brian
11-09-2010, 2:02 PM
It looks to me like a non-refurbed rifle, which I believe is more collectible than a standard refurb with shellac caked all over it. The lack of rear sling slot escutcheons would indicate the stock was from mid to late WWII. Since the barrel date is 1943, I would guess it's the original stock. Also, it doesn't have the finger cut outs for removing the barrel bands, but I don't recall what the significance is on that. IIRC, I think those were added post war during refurb.

All in all it's a cool rifle, definitely not rare as far as the date/arsenal, but it is definitely more desirable to a collector than a standard refurb. Now we just need a range report!!!

Vlad 11
11-09-2010, 2:18 PM
Yea it looks like a non-refurb original .... nice score on that. We require some more pics ...take it out in natural light and get some good shots of the receiver and shank. Looks like its maybe a bringback from Korea? Vietnam? Who knows .. but dont refinish it!

mosinnagantm9130
11-09-2010, 3:28 PM
Looks like its maybe a bringback from Korea? Vietnam? Who knows .. but dont refinish it!

Big +1 here. Take some good pics of the barrel shank, maybe some other markings you can find. I'd also post it on 7.62x54r.net, just to see what they think about it. That one is different than a standard refurb.

13204u
11-09-2010, 4:10 PM
Well I just got home from work. Here are a couple more pics. I never noticed till now but it has a small triangle on the rear of the stock toward the butt plate. That is the only marking. And it appears that there is no shellac on the rifle at all, rather just unfinished wood. I will take better pics tomorrow. Also I took a pic of the receiver, and its less than optimal finishing. As far as marking on the barrel there is one that is barely readable and damn near rubbed off, it says cai alb vt. So I am guessing this is a century import, which is surprising as I feel like they tend to import the better condition units. Again I know nothing of it nor does my father just something he picked up at a gun show some 15 years ago.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/forsaken4u/DSCF5081.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/forsaken4u/DSCF5083.jpg

Interloper
11-09-2010, 5:20 PM
Okay so it's an older CAI import. I'm wondering, though. Do you think maybe it has an oil finish? Many of the ComBloc nations oiled their stocks. The triangle stamp on the butt could be Romanian (?).

Interloper
11-09-2010, 5:32 PM
Romanian stock marks from 7.62x54r.net (http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks03.htm)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9496/0801small.jpg http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7332/0803small.jpg

rojocorsa
11-09-2010, 8:13 PM
Romanian stock marks from 7.62x54r.net (http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks03.htm)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9496/0801small.jpg http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7332/0803small.jpg


I knew you were on to something...

13204u
11-09-2010, 8:23 PM
Well I can tell you this, whatever is inside the triangle is indiscernible. The wood does appear to have an oil finish.

rojocorsa
11-09-2010, 8:26 PM
For a Russian 91/30, I believe it should have the remnants of a shellac coat.

Don't count on me 100%, for I am not a leading expert. But I seriously haven't heard of a non shellac finish for Soviet 91/30s.

Peter.Steele
11-09-2010, 8:39 PM
For a Russian 91/30, I believe it should have the remnants of a shellac coat.

Don't count on me 100%, for I am not a leading expert. But I seriously haven't heard of a non shellac finish for Soviet 91/30s.



I have an 1945 M44 with no shellac on it. I also have a 1937 Finn-cap 91/30 that has no shellac on it. (Yes, it's a Finn cap, but it's still got a Russian stock, not a Finn stock.)

rojocorsa
11-09-2010, 8:50 PM
Interesting...I assumed they'd all have shellac.

Interloper
11-09-2010, 9:07 PM
Peter's M44 might have been refinished in another country. The Finn is definitely refinished. I too have never heard of an oil finish Soviet stock (but I am NOT an expert). I have three M44's and all have oiled stocks. One Romanian, an Hungarian, and one Izzy with non Cyrillic letters carved in the wood.

rojocorsa
11-09-2010, 9:23 PM
Peter's M44 might have been refinished in another country. The Finn is definitely refinished. I too have never heard of an oil finish Soviet stock (but I am NOT an expert). I have three M44's and all have oiled stocks. One Romanian, an Hungarian, and one Izzy with non Cyrillic letters carved in the wood.


Maybe these M-44s are mix-n-match...and that's how you have an Izzy action on an oiled stock?

Interloper
11-09-2010, 9:34 PM
Click for big
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2631/244c.th.jpg (http://img832.imageshack.us/i/244c.jpg/)
Here's the triangle on my Romy M44. Does it look like yours, OP?

Maybe these M-44s are mix-n-match...and that's how you have an Izzy action on an oiled stock?

Mix and match yes...but I think when they were overhauled by another country they were refinished.

mosinnagantm9130
11-09-2010, 10:07 PM
If it is the Romainian triangle on the stock, then it is entirely possible the oil finish is original.

Haggar85
11-10-2010, 9:20 AM
on good authority from a soviet afghan war vet he said that the 91/30s (used before dragunov.) he saw usually had the shellac all chipped off from use.they would just put oil and wax on them to preserve the wood. he was not really specific on what exactly the finish was made out of. he said that the oil wax mix was applied with a paint brush and left to harden then the wax was scrapped off. his english was very basic but i think the mixture was applied hot.
he applied it to a beat to hell 91/30 (not refinish just preserving.) it look OK but not really flashy. he took his 91/30 on deer and boar hunts so as you can imagine knocking around near plaserville the shellac did not last long.