PDA

View Full Version : Buying off list handgun from stranger


redds
11-08-2010, 12:18 AM
I met a guy who just moved into california and he has a nice off list handgun I want to buy. Is this allowed? From what I've found it seems to be okay since it is private party but this guy is just moving into california.

j.primo
11-08-2010, 1:15 AM
What kind of handgun is it?

jtmkinsd
11-08-2010, 2:13 AM
I met a guy who just moved into california and he has a nice off list handgun I want to buy. Is this allowed? From what I've found it seems to be okay since it is private party but this guy is just moving into california.

Perfectly legal...as long as he has a CA DL/ID and if it's a pistol it doesn't have high-cap mags...if it does, they cannot come with the gun when you bring it to the FFL. He can dissassemble them and sell them to you as parts kits for your other high cap mags that you already own. AND, be sure it's not considered an AW (not knowing what kind of gun I can't help you determin this).

tenpercentfirearms
11-08-2010, 6:42 AM
Private Party Transfer! As long as you don't know he did anything illegal, it is inconsequential to you how he obtained the handgun. You just need to make sure it is in a CA legal configuration and then PPT it.

However, it is still legal for new residents to move in and register their non-rostered handguns. And it is legal once registered for them to sell them through the PPT process as long as they have that CA ID or DL.

redds
11-08-2010, 9:17 AM
The gun he has is a Kimber Crimson Trace Pro Carry that looks almost new for only $650. He has three mags and a nic Leather holster, box etc... So We would have to wait for him to get a california ID? I'm not sure he has one yet.

ke6guj
11-08-2010, 2:11 PM
Private Party Transfer! As long as you don't know he did anything illegal, it is inconsequential to you how he obtained the handgun. You just need to make sure it is in a CA legal configuration and then PPT it. yup.

However, it is still legal for new residents to move in and register their non-rostered handguns. And it is legal once registered for them to sell them through the PPT process as long as they have that CA ID or DL.if he is planning on selling it to you, he doesn't have to register it first before he PPTs it to you. He can PPT it to you instead of registering it.

JaMail
11-08-2010, 2:45 PM
hrmm, bad idea, give him my number instead.. ill take that POS off his hands for 650

tenpercentfirearms
11-08-2010, 8:01 PM
If he is planning on selling it to you, he doesn't have to register it first before he PPTs it to you. He can PPT it to you instead of registering it.

Do you have any PC to back that up? I mean it sounds good, but I would be a bit leery of that one. If it was never registered in CA, then is it really an out of state resident selling a gun across state lines? Sure he has a CA ID or DL, but is there a slight risk there?

Mssr. Eleganté
11-08-2010, 8:15 PM
Do you have any PC to back that up?

The PC section is 12072(f)(2)(A). It says that after transporting handguns into California, a personal handgun importer has 60 days to either register them via the "New Resident" form or transfer them to somebody else through an FFL.

12072(f)(2)(A) On or after January 1, 1998, within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, a personal handgun importer shall do one of the following:
(i) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(ii) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).
(iii) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(iv) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

ke6guj
11-08-2010, 8:16 PM
12072(f)(2)(A) On or after January 1, 1998, within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, a personal handgun importer shall do one of the following:
(i) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(ii) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d). (iii) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(iv) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.
(B) If the personal handgun importer sells or transfers the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12072 and the sale or transfer cannot be completed by the dealer to the purchaser or transferee, and the firearm can be returned to the personal handgun importer, the personal handgun importer shall have complied with the provisions of this paragraph.

12072(f)(2)(A)(i) is where you send in the "personal handgun importer form". 12072(f)(2)(A)(ii) says that you can sell it in accordance with 12072(d) which refers to PPTs.

And if the PPT buyer fails the DROS and you have to return it to the seller, 12072(f)(2)(B) says that the seller has complied with importation requlations.

tenpercentfirearms
11-09-2010, 6:39 AM
You guys are awesome!!!

Now would you also say that on an interfamilial out of state transfer that an FFL can turn around and PPT it before it is ever registered in the receiving relatives name? That is the more likely scenario.

desertdweller
11-10-2010, 2:49 PM
And it is legal once registered for them to sell them through the PPT process as long as they have that CA ID or DL.

This is a question I had.

If a friend comes here to CA from another state to go shooting, not intending to stay here or sell his firearm, and I want to buy it, can't we both go down to an FFL and transfer it? It seems people can drive firearms across state lines to go shooting, but if someone wanted to buy it while the owner is visiting - there should be a way since the transfer and waiting period is being done here...... Also, any answer on this that says it isn't legal, I'd like to know if it is a CA law or federal.

ke6guj
11-10-2010, 3:01 PM
a rostered handgun, or a off-roster handgun?

If it is an rostered handgun, then yes, he could sell it to you and transfer it through a dealer. It would not be papered as a PPT since the seller is not a CA-resident (the PPT DROS software does not accept an out-of-state ID for the seller)

If it is an off-roster handgun, then he wouldn't be able to sell it to you. Reasons being, siince he is not a CA-resident, he can't do a PPT to you. And since it isn't on the roster, the seller can't do a standard transfer through a dealer.

Librarian
11-10-2010, 3:24 PM
... and if it's a rifle or shotgun, using the CA FFL should work just fine, but your question was handguns.

Federal law is the 'use an FFL for the interstate transfer'.

State law bars the off-Roster sales to non-exempt CA residents.

DROS software, which may or may not correctly implement state law in this aspect, is limited to accepting CA ID.

3 spots in the Wiki to read - interstate (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate), Roster (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List), PPT (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Buying_f rom_a_Private_Party_-_PPT).

desertdweller
11-10-2010, 5:46 PM
3 spots in the Wiki to read - interstate (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate), Roster (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List), PPT (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Buying_f rom_a_Private_Party_-_PPT).

Well, I have that Wiki bookmarked. Thanks

Strange laws..... So, if I read this right, I am a CA resident, have a gun to sell, buyer is CA resident, we go to a dealer and buyer fails the check - seller has to go through DROS and 10 days to GET IT BACK?

BTW - yes, my question above did refer to an off roster purchase. Thanks for clearing that up.

tenpercentfirearms
11-10-2010, 8:39 PM
Strange laws..... So, if I read this right, I am a CA resident, have a gun to sell, buyer is CA resident, we go to a dealer and buyer fails the check - seller has to go through DROS and 10 days to GET IT BACK?

On a PPT no, the seller's data is checked when the buyer fails. If the seller is clear, the gun is denied and returned to the seller. If the buyer and seller fail, then they delay it and contact the FFL to make sure it is turned over to the police.

desertdweller
11-10-2010, 8:49 PM
If the seller is clear, the gun is denied and returned to the seller.

Thank g*d. The politicians must have been hung over that day and couldn't figure another way to screw over owners. :D