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eric90503
11-04-2010, 9:38 PM
Just curious to see if there there is anything written about gifting rifles to my roommates? Just got my C&R 03 and wanted to gift a couple of Mosins to my two roommates for x-mas. I figured if there under 100bucks, it would cool to introduce my roommates into the hobby. Already convinced my friend to build an OLL AR. Just got to work on the other one who is looking at his first firearm.

I understand that an 03 holder has this privilege to collect for him or herself and is not to sell for profit. Does this exclude gifting a couple of rifles?


Thanks

Eric

Dmitri76
11-04-2010, 9:46 PM
Eric,

From what i understand, nothing specifically stops you from gifting a C&R rifle to a friend, although it would have to actually be 50 years or older to give it to him without going through FFL.
However, the question is about intent. Its illegal to use your licence with the intent to give the rifle to someone else.. You can occasionally sell to enhance your collection, so if you buy a rifle and a few months down the road you find a similar one in better condition, more desirable markings, etc - its ok to sell / give the old one to your friend, provided he's not prohibited and the rifle is actually 50 years old or more.

Hopefully i didn't miss anything here, but if i did, others will correct me shortly :)

TRICKSTER
11-04-2010, 10:50 PM
Just curious to see if there there is anything written about gifting rifles to my roommates? Just got my C&R 03 and wanted to gift a couple of Mosins to my two roommates for x-mas. I figured if there under 100bucks, it would cool to introduce my roommates into the hobby. Already convinced my friend to build an OLL AR. Just got to work on the other one who is looking at his first firearm.

I understand that an 03 holder has this privilege to collect for him or herself and is not to sell for profit. Does this exclude gifting a couple of rifles?


Thanks

Eric

There is no law against selling for a profit. You are not allowed to buy and sell as a primary source of income or a business.

From the ATF website:






Q: Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics?

No. A collector’s license only enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other licensee, for the period stated on the license. A collector’s license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector brings the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer, he shall qualify as such. A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.


Q: What does “engaged in the business” mean?

The term “engaged in the business,” as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.

bandook
11-04-2010, 10:59 PM
I understand that an 03 holder has this privilege to collect for him or herself and is not to sell for profit.


Profit is OK. Collectibles go up and down in price. It is OK to buy low sell high. Just don't make it a full time job.

Regarding the gift, Enter the transfer as if you sold the C&R rifle. There is no requirement that money changes hands.

eric90503
11-04-2010, 11:29 PM
There is no law against selling for a profit. You are not allowed to buy and sell as a primary source of income or a business.

From the ATF website:






Q: Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics?

No. A collector’s license only enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other licensee, for the period stated on the license. A collector’s license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector brings the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer, he shall qualify as such. A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.


Q: What does “engaged in the business” mean?

The term “engaged in the business,” as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like this 03 license is gonna cost me already. :p
I think Mosins would be great xmas gifts, lol...

v/dBrink
11-05-2010, 7:39 PM
I think Mosins would be great xmas gifts, lol...

I hope you're not serious. "Gifts" denotes plural. More than one. That's not what the 03FFL is for. Once in a while, ok. You buy 6 Mosins and give them away as gifts and you have violated the entire spirit of the 03FFL.

Whether doing that is not specifically prohibited in the Gun Control Act of 1968 (and it is specifically prohibited) matters not to BATF when it comes to padding their arrest & conviction stats each year. Removing FFL's from people who abuse the license is high on BATF's list of things to do.

Apparently you've not read the news much when it comes to "unlicensed" dealers. BATF could easily stick YOU in that category when the compliance inspector asks to see those 6 Mosins and you show them only your bound book records going to 6 friends on the same date. Ut oh.

Take it seriously or don't. I doesn't matter to me.