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nicki
11-02-2010, 12:25 PM
Since Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and most of the Statist media oppose prop 19, I am curious to see how you guys voted.

These Dem politicians are out of touch with their political base, prop 19 advocates expect conservative republicans to vote against them, what burns is when their "friends" stab them in the back.

I plan to meet in the next few weeks post election and I would like to see if my gut matches reality.

After taking the poll, feel free to add constructive comments regardless of how you voted.

I voted Yes on 19 because I want to see a commerce clause showdown on state's rights and this would bring large segements of liberals onto my side regarding stae's rights.

I believe ending the drug prohibition will lead to significant reduction in crime thus reducing the hysteria to push for more gun laws.

Nicki

tiki
11-02-2010, 12:34 PM
I oppose Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and most of the Statist media.

Rhythm of Life
11-02-2010, 12:34 PM
Its not my job to regulate what people do in their free time.

I voted yes.

Pred
11-02-2010, 12:39 PM
If i can drink a beer i dont see a reason to keep pot illegal! I voted yes

meg
11-02-2010, 12:40 PM
Increased spending on Little Debbie's Snack Cakes could stimulate the economy.

I voted yes.

Rossi357
11-02-2010, 12:47 PM
TWINKIES

fryan
11-02-2010, 12:48 PM
Pot heads

gobler
11-02-2010, 12:48 PM
Doritos!!

383green
11-02-2010, 12:50 PM
I voted yes on 19. I would also vote yes on moving this thread to off topic. ;)

Pred
11-02-2010, 12:50 PM
Pot heads

This is why most polls show it losing. If u say yes, you are looked at as if you are a pot head.

tiki
11-02-2010, 12:51 PM
Ok, so now some comments.
I voted yes in 19. I don't smoke pot, and regardless of the outcome of the vote, i'm not going to smoke it.

However, I think keeping it illegal is stupid. If I wasn't for Prop 19 already, when Bacca made his comments about ignoring the will of the people, I would have changed my mind at that point. Who the hell do these people think they are.

Since Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and the rest of them are elected to represent the people, they should keep their traps shut and let the people decide whether it should be legal or not.

We are wasting enormous amounts of money fighting pot and it's a battle that will never be won. The argument that legalizing it will turn us into a state of pot smokers is ridiculous. People who want to smoke pot already smoke pot. Your stupid laws aren't changing anything.

Anyone that has been a teen and paid any attention to what was going on around them knows that it's much easier for a kid to score pot than it is for them to score alcohol. Prop 19 won't affect availability.

It should be legal, it should be regulated and it should be taxed. Let adults decide for themselves what they want and don't want to do.

Syntax Error
11-02-2010, 12:53 PM
This is why most polls show it losing. If u say yes, you are looked at as if you are a pot head.

Polls are anonymous....

meg
11-02-2010, 12:54 PM
Oddly enough, a thing called "social desirability bias" is a key feature of my doctoral dissertation in statistics. =) Respondents tell interviewers what they think is socially acceptable or what the interviewer wants to hear rather than the truth. Makes a real mess of the analysis, but gives people like me stuff to ponder.

The_Quark shared a poll with me, I'd have to dig to find it, where people were asked how they'd be voting on Prop 19. Some people were contacted by a live human, others got robo-called by an Interactive Voice Response system. The IVR chunk showed far more support for 19 than the live-human part.

Pred
11-02-2010, 12:55 PM
Polls are anonymous....

Live polls are NOT anonymous.......... brady effect

Gio
11-02-2010, 12:56 PM
I voted no on it, I think Obama and them being against it was a shill and they really wanted it to pass ;)

Rhythm of Life
11-02-2010, 12:57 PM
Polls are anonymous....

A poll is a useless piece of data usually, what was the sample population? Where are these people located, are the polls available only online? By phone? In writing? What is the socio-economic status of those participating ...... etc etc

Polls always favor one group.

ie who has access to our poll here on CGN, only people with computers and internet access, gun lovers, and chances are you reside in CA.

meg
11-02-2010, 12:59 PM
A poll is a useless piece of data usually, what was the sample population? Where are these people located, are the polls available only online? By phone? In writing? What is the socio-economic status of those participating ...... etc etc

Polls always favor one group.

Some polls are well-designed, others are crap. The self-selecting radio button polls on many new websites fall into the crap category. There are, however, many reputable, well-regarding polling firms that do good work. Rasmussen, Gallup, such like that come to mind.

bigcalidave
11-02-2010, 1:01 PM
I voted yes, and I hope it passes. I too look forward to the big states rights developments. Statements by Baca were amazing, what an ***.

383green
11-02-2010, 1:02 PM
I voted no on it, I think Obama and them being against it was a shill and they really wanted it to pass ;)


Maybe that's exactly what they wanted you to think! :TFH:

gobler
11-02-2010, 1:04 PM
Ok, so now some comments.
I voted yes in 19. I don't smoke pot, and regardless of the outcome of the vote, i'm not going to smoke it.

However, I think keeping it illegal is stupid. If I wasn't for Prop 19 already, when Bacca made his comments about ignoring the will of the people, I would have changed my mind at that point. Who the hell do these people think they are.

Since Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and the rest of them are elected to represent the people, they should keep their traps shut and let the people decide whether it should be legal or not.

We are wasting enormous amounts of money fighting pot and it's a battle that will never be won. The argument that legalizing it will turn us into a state of pot smokers is ridiculous. People who want to smoke pot already smoke pot. Your stupid laws aren't changing anything.

Anyone that has been a teen and paid any attention to what was going on around them knows that it's much easier for a kid to score pot than it is for them to score alcohol. Prop 19 won't affect availability.

It should be legal, it should be regulated and it should be taxed. Let adults decide for themselves what they want and don't want to do.

This sums up my thoughts almost to a tee. I do not use "pot" as well due to medical reasons but as a strong Libertarian I think the Gubment needs to keep it's nose out of personal, privet lives. Yes you may see a 1 - 2% increment of users if passed but at least they will pretty much stay at home munching down playing PS3 ;)

GOEX FFF
11-02-2010, 1:04 PM
This is why most polls show it losing. If u say yes, you are looked at as if you are a pot head.

Polls are anonymous....

And so is voting. Unless you tell people what you voted for or not voted for, no one can judge you either way.

Rhythm of Life
11-02-2010, 1:13 PM
Some polls are well-designed, others are crap. The self-selecting radio button polls on many new websites fall into the crap category. There are, however, many reputable, well-regarding polling firms that do good work. Rasmussen, Gallup, such like that come to mind.

For Gallup polls you must have a listed LAN line home phone. In a day and age when many people only have a cell phone it will not represent the population.

When the Gallup polls were first conducted by going house to house, THAT is a good way of gathering data.

For some reason the way Rasmussen polls are conducted wasn't easy to find.

robcoe
11-02-2010, 1:20 PM
I voted yes and bought stock in pop tarts

383green
11-02-2010, 1:22 PM
I voted yes and bought stock in pop tarts

LOL!

GM4spd
11-02-2010, 1:24 PM
Anything George Soros puts money into---- is something I will vote against. Pete

VacaDuck
11-02-2010, 1:24 PM
I voted yes and bought stock in pop tarts

I hear you. I am praying my Doritos futures skyrocket.

meg
11-02-2010, 1:26 PM
For Gallup polls you must have a listed LAN line home phone. In a day and age when many people only have a cell phone it will not represent the population.

When the Gallup polls were first conducted by going house to house, THAT is a good way of gathering data.

For some reason the way Rasmussen polls are conducted wasn't easy to find.

Gallup uses cell phone numbers: http://www.gallup.com/poll/110383/does-gallup-call-cell-phones.aspx

I Swan
11-02-2010, 1:27 PM
Probably better off buying stocks in Zig Zags.

383green
11-02-2010, 1:28 PM
One small nitpick: It's "land line", not "LAN line".

The Shadow
11-02-2010, 1:39 PM
I see a future surge of federal drug raids in California if prop 19 passes. It's foolish to think otherwise.

OleCuss
11-02-2010, 1:48 PM
I'm in favor of legalizing pot, but Prop 19 is poorly written and should be defeated.

I don't think, however, that the Feds are going to start doing a bunch of raids in California if Prop 19 passes. That will not play well within the Democrat party and Obama/Holder need to keep at least a few members of their party happy with them or they'll become almost completely irrelevant. . .

383green
11-02-2010, 1:49 PM
Prop 19 is poorly written and should be defeated.

What do you dislike about it?

The Shadow
11-02-2010, 1:52 PM
If you listen to FOX news, it's already predicted that Obama is a one term President. In fact there is educated talk that other Democrats will challenge Obama in the Primaries.

spetsnaz
11-02-2010, 1:59 PM
i wanted to vote yes but the truth is there is something else within this prop and i just didnt trust that. so i had to vote no. if it would legalize it then i would have voted yes but this time i had to put no because there is something else this prop would do

Pred
11-02-2010, 2:03 PM
Obama said he would bring change!!! I dont think i like his kind of change/

lobonegro
11-02-2010, 2:05 PM
I voted yes.

Looking forward to a showdown in the courts...Fed vs States.

signal5delta
11-02-2010, 2:06 PM
I voted no and I have had a son start smoking weed and end up smoking crack. If weed was legal would that stopped him,I don't know. He and his wife lost their home so for some people it is very bad and for some it is fine.
I am still against it,but that is just my opinion. We will see what happens if Prop. 19 passes.

madmike
11-02-2010, 2:14 PM
i wanted to vote yes but the truth is there is something else within this prop and i just didnt trust that. so i had to vote no. if it would legalize it then i would have voted yes but this time i had to put no because there is something else this prop would do

Something that is a secret apparently...:rolleyes:
Do you feel like enlightening us?

-madmike.

AlliedArmory
11-02-2010, 2:17 PM
I voted No on 19

hawk1
11-02-2010, 2:18 PM
I voted no just to mess with the potheads :cool:

berto
11-02-2010, 2:19 PM
Not 2A, OT please

incredablehefey
11-02-2010, 2:28 PM
i voted no, just because if i voted yes i would be condoning something that is illegal at the federal level

I have quite a few pothead friends and in my personal experience it makes them lazy and abortive. But i dont care what they want to put in there body as long as there happy with there life.

21SF
11-02-2010, 2:31 PM
I vote, no. the current prop215 is fine and suits its patients. Greed in their eyes i see.

NightOwl
11-02-2010, 2:31 PM
i voted no, just because if i voted yes i would be condoning something that is illegal at the federal level

I have quite a few pothead friends and in my personal experience it makes them lazy and abortive. But i dont care what they want to put in there body as long as there happy with there life.

Your second statement seems to be condoning something that is illegal at the federal level.

thayne
11-02-2010, 2:33 PM
If you listen to FOX news, it's already predicted that Obama is a one term President. In fact there is educated talk that other Democrats will challenge Obama in the Primaries.

He should do the honorable thing and not seek re-election

Pred
11-02-2010, 2:36 PM
He should do the honorable thing and not seek re-election

We all know thats not going to happen. When was the last time someone in office did something honorable? haha

21SF
11-02-2010, 2:41 PM
I voted no and I have had a son start smoking weed and end up smoking crack. If weed was legal would that stopped him,I don't know. He and his wife lost their home so for some people it is very bad and for some it is fine.
I am still against it,but that is just my opinion. We will see what happens if Prop. 19 passes.


Im sorry, but its like saying that if walmart stopped selling ammo homicides will stop.

Dexster
11-02-2010, 2:44 PM
I voted no, main reason I have a rental property that someone converted to a grow house that cost me $13,000 after the insurance claim.

After that experience regardless of legalization making grow houses fewer and far between I wish they would treat it as a drug and put extremely high fines behind being caught with even personal use and make the "Tax benefits" through fining the **** out of the pot heads.

Pred
11-02-2010, 2:45 PM
Im sorry, but its like saying that if walmart stopped selling ammo homicides will stop.

I 100% agree. Seems like the no on prop 19 people are using the same tactics as the people that are trying to get the guns out of our hands. (Im not referring to the person talking about his son.)

383green
11-02-2010, 2:50 PM
I voted no, main reason I have a rental property that someone converted to a grow house that cost me $13,000 after the insurance claim.

After that experience regardless of legalization making grow houses fewer and far between I wish they would treat it as a drug and put extremely high fines behind being caught with even personal use and make the "Tax benefits" through fining the **** out of the pot heads.

I'm trying to find the logic in there, but I'm just not seeing it.

tiki
11-02-2010, 2:50 PM
I voted no and I have had a son start smoking weed and end up smoking crack. If weed was legal would that stopped him,I don't know. He and his wife lost their home so for some people it is very bad and for some it is fine.
I am still against it,but that is just my opinion. We will see what happens if Prop. 19 passes.

I sympathize with your situation but the logic fails.

spetsnaz
11-02-2010, 2:52 PM
Something that is a secret apparently...:rolleyes:
Do you feel like enlightening us?

-madmike.

i wont go into detail but its something like this.

The intent of Prop. 19 is...
“Legalize marijuana to get the state out of debt,” Tom Ammiano.
Marijuana is the means to an end. It is the pawn that is being used to mislead us away from state’s objective.
The state is seeking to escape responsibility for the billions of dollars of growing debt they have made with our tax dollars, by extending its original tax base that has proven inadequate for their spending.
We are being fooled to enable them access to more money than they have ever had, with no ‘representation” for the taxpayer.
The stream of new revenue for the state, counties and cities is enormous.
There will be new tax dollars (not to mention permits, licenses, fees, etc.) from these new businesses and their product, and and any increase in tourism and population, guaranteed them in Prop. 19.
Yet there is not equal representation for the tax payer...so that when this stream of new revenue comes in and increases the government’s original tax base income by x percent, the taxes we currently pay will be licensed by the same amount, balancing the power equally between us and the government.
If we vote Prop. 19 into law, as it stands now, we would have created, once again, a bigger, more powerful, government, with no regard for our “equal” selves.


http://www.ridgecrestca.com/opinions/x1665094170/Letter-to-the-editor-The-truth-about-Prop-19

tiki
11-02-2010, 2:52 PM
I'm trying to find the logic in there, but I'm just not seeing it.

I have to agree. The logic behind some of the "no" reasons just doesn't make sense.

It's the same knee jerk reaction the antis use for gun control. Doesn't make sense. Emotion and logic don't mix.

thebronze
11-02-2010, 2:53 PM
I want it to fail, but I voted yes, because I'd rather see California go down in flames.

thayne
11-02-2010, 2:54 PM
i wont go into detail but its something like this.



http://www.ridgecrestca.com/opinions/x1665094170/Letter-to-the-editor-The-truth-about-Prop-19

This is a proposition, not a state sponsored bill.

The Shadow
11-02-2010, 3:00 PM
He should do the honorable thing and not seek re-election

To do the honorable thing, a person must have honor. I haven't seen any signs of honor from Obama.

madmike
11-02-2010, 3:02 PM
i wont go into detail but its something like this.



http://www.ridgecrestca.com/opinions/x1665094170/Letter-to-the-editor-The-truth-about-Prop-19

LOL! Seriously?

-madmike.

DV_emt
11-02-2010, 3:10 PM
I haven't been to the poll yet, but it'll be a yes from me. I am a medical patient and it has done wonders for me. There's no reason it can't be taxed and help stimulate California's economy...... not to mention in increase in hostess products sales ;P

faterikcartman
11-02-2010, 3:16 PM
I am generally in favour of letting people do what they please as long as they don't hurt others and take responsibility for their actions.

Thus, I would legalize heroin. But would refuse taxpayer funding of the treatment of junkies for any drug related crises.

So smoke your weed, but don't stick me with the medical bills or get behind the wheel, etc.

Rossi357
11-02-2010, 3:21 PM
Prop 19 is aahh mmm aaa I forgot what I was gonna say.

Ford8N
11-02-2010, 3:21 PM
I don't use dope but voted yes. A yes vote is a vote against the Mexican drug cartel. And everyone that uses the old "gate way" drug argument, every single drug user I've known, 100%, started with tobacco and alcohol.

Pred
11-02-2010, 3:36 PM
I just heard that youth turnout was so great in San Diego that they ran out of ballots!!! How crazy is that?

green grunt
11-02-2010, 3:45 PM
if it becomes legal ............I'm sure the state can use the $'s........and it may free up a few LEO's to go after the bigger fish out there........

what ever floats your boat......just don't try to park it in my harbor....;)

Cranium
11-02-2010, 3:48 PM
Penn Jillette nailed it, in my opinion.
Things sure would be nice if you could convince the gun people that the pot people were OK, and convince the pot people that gun people were OK. Just think how much smoother things could be, especially in this state.
But that's the Libertarian in me... Is what I'm doing at a given moment directly affecting you? No? Then get the F out of my way.

Rhythm of Life
11-02-2010, 3:49 PM
I just heard that youth turnout was so great in San Diego that they ran out of ballots!!! How crazy is that?

Whats crazier is they didn't know the population of San Diego and order enough ballots.

illegalalienfromarizona
11-02-2010, 3:49 PM
I voted Yes. I don't like the tax on it, but its better than nothing. We don't need the government to keep taking away anymore of our personal freedom.

professionalcoyotehunter
11-02-2010, 3:52 PM
I voted yes. I really dont care if people smoke it as long as it is regulated and the government can make money on it.

Pred
11-02-2010, 3:58 PM
Whats crazier is they didn't know the population of San Diego and order enough ballots.

YUP!!!! I just think it will suck if some people dont get to vote because of that

J.D.Allen
11-02-2010, 4:13 PM
Penn Jillette nailed it, in my opinion.
Things sure would be nice if you could convince the gun people that the pot people were OK, and convince the pot people that gun people were OK. Just think how much smoother things could be, especially in this state.
But that's the Libertarian in me... Is what I'm doing at a given moment directly affecting you OR ANYONE ELSE? No? Then get the F out of my way.

There. Fixed it for ya. And I agree with it 1000%!

NoahH
11-02-2010, 4:29 PM
I'm voting yes, however I don't see the massive revenue coming to the state unless they start laying off a ton of law enforcement and corrections officers which is probably not going to happen.

gmcal
11-02-2010, 4:35 PM
I voted yes and bought stock in pop tarts

Cookie crisp is where it's at.

I don't smoke it nor will I start if it passes but I voted yes. My main reason is I don't think busting potheads is a good use of our tax dollars.

As for the gateway drug arguements, I don't agree with them. I do know some people who smoke pot and some have unfortunately moved on to "harder" drugs but they all started with alcohol.

If this can be used to strengthen states rights then great.

madjack956
11-02-2010, 4:59 PM
I voted no. I don't smoke pot, but I don't have anything against it. I smoked it when I was a kid. I know a lot of people my age (old) that smoke it now. What I am against is the state deeming it ok now because they are in fiscal trouble and need the tax dollars. I find that very hypocritical after putting so many people in jail for it over the years. I really don't understand why anyone would give their blessing to the state taxing it. I also dont agree with the way the proposition was written. Under the law it gives power to any city to ban it the same way counties throughout the U.S. ban alcohol (dry counties). I personally don't agree with the argument that it would put a serious dent in the Mexican drug trade either. I don't know anyone that smokes that crappy Mexican brick weed. As it is now, if you have a medical problem it is legal with an easily obtainable referral from a doctor, and I really do believe it helps a lot of people. And if you are a recreational user, you are in very little trouble if caught with less than an ounce. So, anyone that chooses to use pot, for whatever reason, can be accommodated under current law without the state getting their greedy little cut. As far as I'm concerned, its the best of both worlds.

Just my 3 cents...

CaliColin
11-02-2010, 5:20 PM
Voted yes, not for the money but for the same reason assisted suicide should be legal. Because it's my body and I don't need the govt telling me what to do with it.

mossy590
11-02-2010, 5:28 PM
I'll vote YES, I don't, never have, and likely never will smoke weed. Who am I to tell someone what to do in their own home if I don't want anyone telling me what to do in mine.

If a grown man who puts in 40 hours a week contributing to society and paying taxes wants to burn one down on friday night to unwind, I'm all for it. It's not my thing, but I'll support anyone minding their own business and doing as they please, providing all involved are consenting adults and no one gets hurt. If it makes you happy, no one gets hurt, and it keeps the gummint out of your life, I will vote yes every time.

People want to carry open or concealed, or smoke weed at gay wedding receptions, I don't care..........so long as it's done in newly redrawn districts :43:

tacticalcity
11-02-2010, 5:31 PM
Increased spending on Little Debbie's Snack Cakes could stimulate the economy.

I voted yes.

:D:D:D Great response, and the first to go there! :D:D:D

I voted yes against my own personal best interest. I am allergic to smoke. Every kind of smoke. Like somebody with hay feaver sucking in big globs of pollen my sinuses immediately swell up and I get a head and chest cold like you would not believe. No question that once legalized an apartment dweller like myself is going to encounter more and more smokers (pot or otherwise) living close enough to me that it will impact my own health if Prop 19 passes.

However, I have several relatives with degenerative illnesses that are aided by pot. Which despite medical marijuana being legal, is next to impossible to get and keep getting thanks to insane over regulation (not that the current law is actually enforced) in the quantity or quality they need. Prop 19 makes it so those relatives are no longer criminals for doing what they need to do in order to function and ease their pain. It takes the well meaning law we currently have, and expands on it so it is actually practical.

There are plenty of flaws with Prop 19. But it helps my relatives out big time and that is enough justification for me. I can suffer allergy attacks if it helps a dying relative get some comfort with them risking their freedom in the process. Of course I say that now. When smokers live under or nextdoor to me I am a very unhappy camper. So much so I've had to move over it. The last batch of party animals got themselves kicked out, and not as a result of me. But they had me contemplating breaking my lease. They smoked 24-7, both pot and tobacco, and I spent more time sick than healthy. While that could happen regardless of whether Prop 19 passes, it is likely to happen a lot more often if Prop 19 passes.

So me it is a mixed bag. I voted for it, but will not be overly upset if it fails to pass.

dfletcher
11-02-2010, 5:31 PM
This state needs another revenue source like a diabetic needs a Twinkie.

Havoc70
11-02-2010, 5:32 PM
Why isn't this in OT?

And I voted yes on it.

Monte
11-02-2010, 5:41 PM
I voted no. I don't smoke pot, but I don't have anything against it. I smoked it when I was a kid. I know a lot of people my age (old) that smoke it now. What I am against is the state deeming it ok now because they are in fiscal trouble and need the tax dollars. I find that very hypocritical after putting so many people in jail for it over the years. I really don't understand why anyone would give their blessing to the state taxing it. I also dont agree with the way the proposition was written. Under the law it gives power to any city to ban it the same way counties throughout the U.S. ban alcohol (dry counties). I personally don't agree with the argument that it would put a serious dent in the Mexican drug trade either. I don't know anyone that smokes that crappy Mexican brick weed. As it is now, if you have a medical problem it is legal with an easily obtainable referral from a doctor, and I really do believe it helps a lot of people. And if you are a recreational user, you are in very little trouble if caught with less than an ounce. So, anyone that chooses to use pot, for whatever reason, can be accommodated under current law without the state getting their greedy little cut. As far as I'm concerned, its the best of both worlds.

Just my 3 cents...

I voted yes, but I think you made the best argument in this thread so far against it. Not enough to sway my decision, but some good points.

negolien
11-02-2010, 5:45 PM
LOL at pot-heads....That's funny I gueess most people supporting this must be high or they'd realize in reality this will never work.In theory I have no issues but /shrug like the medicinal travisty the laws are bent and not enforced and not run in the spirit of the law..

tacticalcity
11-02-2010, 5:51 PM
Why isn't this in OT?

"2nd Amend. Politics and Laws"

It falls under "politics and laws" just not "2nd Amendment". So it depends on whether you think this section covers all politics and laws or just 2A politics and laws. Given the subject matter of so many other posts, I would assume it covers all politics and laws.

Bizcuits
11-02-2010, 5:53 PM
I have never smoked pot in my life, never will. I voted yes.

It's not the governments job to decide what is or isn't right for people to consume.

thayne
11-02-2010, 5:57 PM
I voted yes, but I think you made the best argument in this thread so far against it. Not enough to sway my decision, but some good points.

His argument was completely flawed.

First of all This is a proposition not a state sponsored law and the state gets no tax from it. Its left up to local gov to tax on commercial sales.

SFgiants105
11-02-2010, 6:02 PM
Since Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and most of the Statist media oppose prop 19, I am curious to see how you guys voted.

These Dem politicians are out of touch with their political base, prop 19 advocates expect conservative republicans to vote against them, what burns is when their "friends" stab them in the back.

I plan to meet in the next few weeks post election and I would like to see if my gut matches reality.

After taking the poll, feel free to add constructive comments regardless of how you voted.

I voted Yes on 19 because I want to see a commerce clause showdown on state's rights and this would bring large segements of liberals onto my side regarding stae's rights.

I believe ending the drug prohibition will lead to significant reduction in crime thus reducing the hysteria to push for more gun laws.

Nicki

True that.

Screw this bipartisan system. We need to make amendments to the Constitution to provide for coalition parties, like in every other normal country.

I hate having to vote with bigots because I want to cut federal spending. And I hate having to vote for additional taxes without having a say in where the money goes. There's only two choices. That's gay as hell!

bigstick61
11-02-2010, 6:02 PM
After lengthy contemplation I finally voted no. Prop. 19 appears to have serious flaws and is likely the wrong way to go about legalizing marijuana at the state level.

tacticalcity
11-02-2010, 6:03 PM
LOL at pot-heads....That's funny I gueess most people supporting this must be high or they'd realize in reality this will never work.In theory I have no issues but /shrug like the medicinal travisty the laws are bent and not enforced and not run in the spirit of the law..

It is different when you know people with cancer, or brain tumors who are helped by it but have to break the law to get it in the amounts and quality they need. My family has both people with cancer and a person who had a brain tumor almost 20 years ago, that recently has had a crippling effect on her daily life as the prescription medications that used to give her 95% of a normal life, now offer her something like 55% off pot and 85% on it. At first I didn't think it would make much difference. But watching the steady and marked improvement in their functionality and increased ability to cope with the illness is a real game changer. It literally allows them to function, when otherwise crippled with pain and other symptoms of their illnesses.

So I don't care if people abuse it, so long as those who are sick and need it can actually get it in a real and practical way. It is not like prohibition works anyway. People who want to abuse it do, and get away with it more often than not. Unless you are really obvious about it, you won't get caught. I was truly surprised to discover how many people I know who are closet potheads. They just keep it to themselves. Very conservative God fearing people. It used to shock me, now I'm used to it.

If we were talking about heroin or cocaine, I would feel differently but we're not. I think it is stupid when people abuse pot, just like I think it is stupid when they abuse alcohol. The two compare pretty well, and neither should be illegal to use or possess unless you endanger others while doing so (driving while high or intoxicated for example).

In any case, It is shameful sick people have to break the law in order to get the medication they need in the amount and quality they need in order to function. The existing law just does not do enough to help those people. So if Prop 19 can change that, it is worth my vote.

arfan66
11-02-2010, 6:10 PM
I voted no for reasons I won't state here. I couldn't partake even if I wanted to (job restrictions). I'm guessing the pot farmers out there don't like it either. They'll either get taxed out of existence or busted for tax evasion...

Not sure if it'll reduce crime or not...but all those fast food joints will rake in the bucks!

tacticalcity
11-02-2010, 6:17 PM
I wonder if Taco Bell was a major contributor? ;)

Jack in the box had a Taco commercial making fun of this back in the day.

CWVnPlUCrf8

2FQV59b1C-k

Snapple has always been a big contributor to those trying to keep pot illegal. A bunch of kids at my college were boycotting Snapple for that reason, back when Snapple was at the height of their popularity.

chris
11-02-2010, 6:24 PM
I oppose Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and most of the Statist media.

as i do also. if they oppose it i'm for it.

tacticalcity
11-02-2010, 6:28 PM
Well the Army Semi-Zebra is for it and the Air Force Zebra is against it. That sure says a lot! ;)

I was Air Force myself, and I voted yes, so I'm teasing all the way around.

ZenDaddy
11-02-2010, 6:32 PM
I just heard that youth turnout was so great in San Diego that they ran out of ballots!!! How crazy is that?

This is the true reason prop 19 is up for vote. I believe it to be a Dem contrivance to motivate the same young liberal voters that made Obama's dreams come true in 2008. It has little to do with crime or revenue.

Vindo310
11-02-2010, 6:36 PM
The only good reason to vote no on 19 is to keep the state from taxing you. As it is anyone with $35 can be a legal marijuana user untaxed.

I voted yes on 19 because it is none of the governments business what anyone does at home. Just like I voted no on prop 8.

madjack956
11-02-2010, 7:07 PM
His argument was completely flawed.

First of all This is a proposition not a state sponsored law and the state gets no tax from it. Its left up to local gov to tax on commercial sales.

Not completely flawed. Just a little ignorance on my part about which government entity gets to grease their palms with tax dollars derived from dope sales. Thank you, sincerely, for bringing that fact to my attention..:o

HUTCH 7.62
11-02-2010, 7:08 PM
Anything George Soros puts money into---- is something I will vote against. Pete

THIS!

sepiid
11-02-2010, 7:15 PM
i voted yes, personally i would like to legalize it all and let Darwin sort them out.

kwest10
11-02-2010, 7:19 PM
Increased spending on Little Debbie's Snack Cakes could stimulate the economy.

I voted yes.

from an economic perspective alone we could be out of this fiscal disaster
I wonder if it'll make the wine regions wine taste like junk tho?

GrizzlyGuy
11-02-2010, 7:27 PM
I have never smoked pot in my life, never will. I voted yes.

It's not the governments job to decide what is or isn't right for people to consume.

Same here. Besides that fundamental reason, prop 19 would also lower the risk of people showing up on the infamous Raidmap (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=357982).

ChillyWilly
11-02-2010, 7:42 PM
I voted NO because its bad enough to deal with now, illegal. My freaking neighbor smokes the crap several times a week and it always manages to waft into my window with my 9 year old around. Not to mention at the park during his football and baseball games. If this **** becomes legal it will be freaking everywhere, and yeah I don't give a crap what they smoke but I don't need to know about it. How about a little respect for my space and my family.

signal5delta
11-02-2010, 7:54 PM
I guess i make no sense but some families are torn apart because of drugs and in some cases marijuana is a gateway drug to get them started. I have seen what drugs can do to people and I guess some of you have not.
Some people cannot just smoke weed and that is enough,some have to have meth and crack,that is what scares me. I can say this since I lived through the 60's and most of you haven't.

LethalDog
11-02-2010, 8:01 PM
Since Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and most of the Statist media oppose prop 19, I am curious to see how you guys voted.

These Dem politicians are out of touch with their political base, prop 19 advocates expect conservative republicans to vote against them, what burns is when their "friends" stab them in the back.

I plan to meet in the next few weeks post election and I would like to see if my gut matches reality.

After taking the poll, feel free to add constructive comments regardless of how you voted.

I voted Yes on 19 because I want to see a commerce clause showdown on state's rights and this would bring large segements of liberals onto my side regarding stae's rights.

I believe ending the drug prohibition will lead to significant reduction in crime thus reducing the hysteria to push for more gun laws.

Nicki

Sorry Nicki but Dem politician do not equal prop 19 advocates. Not now or Ever. Its a myth created by social conservatives back in the 60's. Personal liberty starts at the political right not at the political left.

Lead-Thrower
11-02-2010, 8:01 PM
I am not a pothead, but I voted yes.

383green
11-02-2010, 8:16 PM
"2nd Amend. Politics and Laws"

It falls under "politics and laws" just not "2nd Amendment". So it depends on whether you think this section covers all politics and laws or just 2A politics and laws. Given the subject matter of so many other posts, I would assume it covers all politics and laws.

There's no comma between "2nd Amend." and "Politics and Laws". This forum is supposed to be only about 2nd Amendment issues, not a general politics forum. Threads like this one are commonly moved to the Off Topic forum, but the mods won't necessarily notice them and do something about it until somebody reports the thread with the little report post button at the upper right corner of each posting. Maybe nobody has bothered to report this thread so far? I often report non-2A-related threads (and they almost always end up in OT afterwards), but I haven't reported this one yet... I figured the mods' inboxes were already getting stuffed enough today! :p

M14 Junkie
11-02-2010, 8:22 PM
What's with referring to people who smoke grass with the pejorative; "potheads"?

Are all people who drink alcohol "rum-heads"? The sixties are over people.:rolleyes:

Makes you sound like a bunch of un-educated boobs.

ZX-10R
11-02-2010, 8:27 PM
Liberal Prop...So I voted NO.

383green
11-02-2010, 8:29 PM
What's with referring to people who smoke grass with the pejorative; "potheads"?

Is it really all that perjorative? I don't feel insulted by being identified as a "gun nut".

Are all people who drink alcohol "rum-heads"? The sixties are over friends.:rolleyes:

I'm more of a Scotch-head, myself. :p

Makes you sound like a bunch of un-educated boobs.

Heh... you said "boobs". :D

Meplat
11-02-2010, 8:29 PM
Pot heads

I have never used the stuff in my life. However, prohibition always causes more problems than it solves.

J-cat
11-02-2010, 8:32 PM
What's with referring to people who smoke grass with the pejorative; "potheads"?

Are all people who drink alcohol "rum-heads"? The sixties are over people.:rolleyes:

Makes you sound like a bunch of un-educated boobs.

We uneducated boobs believe you MJ smokers are undesirable. We don't want to smell your crap. We don't want to deal with the 100% increase in DUI's since MJ became legal for medicinal purposes. We're tired of seeing your droopy eyes and your lax attitude toward life.

383green
11-02-2010, 8:34 PM
We don't want to deal with the 100% increase in DUI's since MJ became legal for medicinal purposes.

Do you have a citation that supports that statement?

Vindo310
11-02-2010, 8:35 PM
I guess i make no sense but some families are torn apart because of drugs and in some cases marijuana is a gateway drug to get them started. I have seen what drugs can do to people and I guess some of you have not.
Some people cannot just smoke weed and that is enough,some have to have meth and crack,that is what scares me. I can say this since I lived through the 60's and most of you haven't.
What does any of what you had to say have to do with involving the government in my personal affairs? Does keeping it illegal stop methheads from doing meth?

A no vote on prop 19 is a vote to put more weed in the hands of children. I was born in the late 80's. Growing up I could never get alcohol or cigarettes but I could always get marijuana, meth, acid and mushrooms if I wanted those things. Keeping marijuana illegal means you don't have to show ID to buy it.

J-cat
11-02-2010, 8:36 PM
Do you have a citation that supports that statement?

West Covina Police Chief.

383green
11-02-2010, 8:39 PM
West Covina Police Chief.

Link? I'd like to see the numbers.

Vindo310
11-02-2010, 8:41 PM
West Covina Police Chief.

As we know LEO leaders always tell us the truth about gun laws too right?

ale014
11-02-2010, 8:43 PM
Marijuana is still going to be illegal, wither prop 19 passes or not. This would not supersede federal law and ATF, FBI or DEA or whatever will still give people a hard time in federal courts :(

i voted yes btw

edit reasons: i think the state would make millions of dollars from taxing marijuana, and lay off us pro 2a guys, hopefully this works

J-cat
11-02-2010, 8:56 PM
As we know LEO leaders always tell us the truth about gun laws too right?

And we know that druggies also tell the truth...

J-cat
11-02-2010, 8:57 PM
Link? I'd like to see the numbers.

I heard it on the radio. I don't have a link.

Fjold
11-02-2010, 9:05 PM
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/governor/

Says Prop 19 is losing

Vindo310
11-02-2010, 9:06 PM
And we know that druggies also tell the truth...
What use is that slight?

If you are assuming I am a druggy you are wrong. I don't smoke the stuff. I drink good beers and smoke cheap cigars. :D

Meplat
11-02-2010, 9:17 PM
I'm trying to find the logic in there, but I'm just not seeing it.

That's because there isn't any. He'sjust mad at someone so he's lashing out at every one. Wants to punish someone even if it's the wrong someone. And does not want to admit that legalization would mean that pot would be grown outside and not in a rent house.

Sajedene
11-02-2010, 9:37 PM
I voted No.

ale014
11-02-2010, 9:59 PM
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/governor/

Says Prop 19 is losing

Yea prop 19 is behind, i think my friend is happy =]

HUTCH 7.62
11-02-2010, 10:01 PM
Apparently their are a lot of dopers on Calguns as Prop 19 just lost and the CG poll shows it winning

Cokebottle
11-02-2010, 10:02 PM
Huh, wait, wha....



Was I supposed to vote today?

Cokebottle
11-02-2010, 10:03 PM
Apparently their are a lot of dopers on Calguns as Prop 19 just lost and the CG poll shows it winning
Funny that there is practically ZERO discussion of this on other forums I hang on.

phamkl
11-02-2010, 10:06 PM
I don't like the idea of legal marijuana but I can't reconcile it's continued illegality when it does less harm to the human body than does cigarettes. As for the idea that the streets will fill with high drivers, I doubt it. Violence doesn't increase when guns are legal, dangerous use of pot probably won't increase when pot is legal.

I hate the smell of pot.

Meplat
11-02-2010, 10:10 PM
That's a real slick slope you are starting to climb there. Got liver problems? Can't help ya, you drink wine with dinner. Got high cholesterol? Sorry, no Crestor for you, I saw you munching on that cheese burger.

Get out of my bedroom, get out of my fridge, get away from my liquor cabinet, and stay out of the pot head's garden. BTW, shut up about helmets and seat belts while you are at it.

How about we just forget about public funding of medicine all together? Or do you want to be compassionate with my money, but only to people whos lifestyle you approve? At what point does it stop being about compassion and start being about control? What about when a hunting or range accident rearranges your innards and it costs hundreds of thousands for the surgeon to replumb you, and then it's; "sorry we can't cover that kind of risky behavior." That is what Obama care is all about.:p:43:

Nothing personal, just another point of view.


I am generally in favour of letting people do what they please as long as they don't hurt others and take responsibility for their actions.

Thus, I would legalize heroin. But would refuse taxpayer funding of the treatment of junkies for any drug related crises.

So smoke your weed, but don't stick me with the medical bills or get behind the wheel, etc.

Luieburger
11-02-2010, 10:11 PM
I find it strange, but I met several (and heard about several more) pot smokers who were against 19 because they didn't want it regulated and taxed. One even told me "Man... this ****'s just not cool when the government gets involved in it."

Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, government is all over it by keeping it illegal. Is regulation and taxation not a reduction in government involvement?

Texas Boy
11-02-2010, 10:16 PM
Ok, so now some comments.
I voted yes in 19. I don't smoke pot, and regardless of the outcome of the vote, i'm not going to smoke it.

However, I think keeping it illegal is stupid. If I wasn't for Prop 19 already, when Bacca made his comments about ignoring the will of the people, I would have changed my mind at that point. Who the hell do these people think they are.

Since Obama, Holder, Feinstein, Boxer and the rest of them are elected to represent the people, they should keep their traps shut and let the people decide whether it should be legal or not.

We are wasting enormous amounts of money fighting pot and it's a battle that will never be won. The argument that legalizing it will turn us into a state of pot smokers is ridiculous. People who want to smoke pot already smoke pot. Your stupid laws aren't changing anything.

Anyone that has been a teen and paid any attention to what was going on around them knows that it's much easier for a kid to score pot than it is for them to score alcohol. Prop 19 won't affect availability.

It should be legal, it should be regulated and it should be taxed. Let adults decide for themselves what they want and don't want to do.

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

Meplat
11-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Sounds good to me just dont invite me to any mutual admiration parties.:D


Penn Jillette nailed it, in my opinion.
Things sure would be nice if you could convince the gun people that the pot people were OK, and convince the pot people that gun people were OK. Just think how much smoother things could be, especially in this state.
But that's the Libertarian in me... Is what I'm doing at a given moment directly affecting you? No? Then get the F out of my way.

PixelBender
11-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Well said. My thoughts exactly.

+1

Same here.

Excedrin
11-02-2010, 10:50 PM
Apparently their are a lot of dopers on Calguns as Prop 19 just lost and the CG poll shows it winning

I suppose it couldn't be that the same logic that results in belief that individual rights are a good thing extends to areas aside from firearm ownership.

It's odd that the same people who oppose teaching the Hindu creation myth in science classes are happy to demonize drugs.

jamesob
11-02-2010, 10:58 PM
i would say that a large percent of the people in favor of legalizing weed really don't care about your 2nd amendment rights, so why should i care about theirs? if the state wasn't going to profit from it i may have voted yes.

Rossi357
11-02-2010, 11:02 PM
Apparently their are a lot of dopers on Calguns as Prop 19 just lost and the CG poll shows it winning

Not dopers. They are herbalists.

rp55
11-02-2010, 11:05 PM
I voted for it. A free man conducts his affairs as he wishes, not as his masters in Sacramento dictate.

jstotts
11-02-2010, 11:23 PM
I think it's too bad it's not going to pass. I have a fuller account of my thoughts on Prop 19 on my blog: http://jasonstotts.com/2010/10/on-marijuana-2/

Vindo310
11-02-2010, 11:31 PM
I find it strange, but I met several (and heard about several more) pot smokers who were against 19 because they didn't want it regulated and taxed. One even told me "Man... this ****'s just not cool when the government gets involved in it."

Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, government is all over it by keeping it illegal. Is regulation and taxation not a reduction in government involvement?
Well as it is marijuana is practically legal in California without taxation. Anyone can go to certain doctors and get a prescription with no hassle. When you go buy your weed there is no sales tax or anything so in a way it is sort of perfect as it is.

Many medical marijuana buyers and sellers wanted this to fail. It is really a weird situation.

BayAreaShooter
11-02-2010, 11:39 PM
Well as it is marijuana is practically legal in California without taxation. Anyone can go to certain doctors and get a prescription with no hassle. When you go buy your weed there is no sales tax or anything so in a way it is sort of perfect as it is.

Many medical marijuana buyers and sellers wanted this to fail. It is really a weird situation.

yea many medical MJ clubs wanted it to fail as they feel it would take profit away from there business if not shut it down completely.

RideIcon
11-03-2010, 12:51 AM
"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny"

*Thomas Jefferson, 1778

Anchors
11-03-2010, 1:03 AM
Voted yes. Don't smoke weed. Or do any other drugs.
In fact I'm a straight edge kid and have been for about six years.

So why would someone so opposed to drug use vote for legalization?

Because I don't care what other people want to do with their bodies and I think California could use the tax revenue (even though it would be defeated federally in about ten seconds).

I also believe in personal rights. If I'm not shooting people, why shouldn't I be allowed to have a machine gun? If you're sitting in your house, wasting your own life away smoking crack and not robbing and hurting others, then I could care less.
I also believe in state's rights (except CA's gun laws, since they violate the 2A).

Anchors
11-03-2010, 1:06 AM
Many medical marijuana buyers and sellers wanted this to fail. It is really a weird situation.

Yup, I know of people who wanted it to fail for these reasons.
I don't know any buyers who wanted it to fail, but sellers definitely.
Marijuana is still good business because it is still illegal (technically) and therefore harder to procure. If passed and uncontested the price of weed would probably plummet.

razb0yn1k23
11-03-2010, 1:10 AM
Increased spending on Little Debbie's Snack Cakes could stimulate the economy.

I voted yes.

LMAOOO good one :D

cbn620
11-03-2010, 2:00 AM
Voted resounding YES.

Weed. Look if I believed in God I would swear to God despite trying it once or twice I don't even use the stuff. I also probably wouldn't have become even a semi-regular user even if 19 passed. I can say whole heartedly if the liquor store had marijuana Camels for sale legally I still very likely would not become anything close to a user.

I'm violently allergic to penicillin and I've had more of it in my life than I have had marijuana.

You don't have to want to smoke pot, be a pot smoker, or or even consider smoking pot to support legalizing it. If you believe in personal freedom you don't believe in banning a little plant that makes you dizzy and a little dumb when you smoke it. Period. If you voted no on this prop, you believe the state, the government has the right to tell you what you can and can't consume.

Even if guns literally came to life sometimes and killed 10 million babies a year and burned American flags like the antis seem to think I would never support banning them. That's why I can't understand why anyone, regardless of how they feel about marijuana, would want it banned. What don't they understand about freedom?

When I was out taking my little cousins trick-or-treating on Sunday we walked right past a wrought iron fence with big, sharp ornamental post tips pointing up menacingly. People walking next to us were making comments how dangerous such a thing was, and I remember commenting to one of the ladies that was lamenting it something I often tell people: "In a free country you have to let people get a couple boo-boos now and then."

People have to have room to make mistakes. Bad things have to be possible. Even things that can be considered "dangerous" have to be allowed. The potential danger of having these things is far less than the danger of being legislated out of your personal freedom, your right to self-determination.

nicki
11-03-2010, 2:28 AM
I am sorry that prop 19 failed, that being said, much can be learned from how people voted.

Opponents of the measure preyed on people's fears that the roads would be full of impaired drivers, that employers would have to put up with stoned workers.

In hindsight, the Tax and Regulate may have been the wrong way to go, personally I see it as a matter of personal choice.

The proponents of legalizing Pot have to get some support from the political right while we need to get support from the political left to protect our gun rights.

Thanks to everyone who took time to take the poll as well as those who posted comments. I appreciate the honest comments that disagreed with my position btw.

Many of you expressed strong support for personal rights. I have to float some ideas to key people, if they jump, I will post details on how you can help.

Thanks again

Nicki

nosuchagency
11-03-2010, 6:20 AM
and all is as it should be. frankly, i'm a strong proponent of anything that makes it that much easier to violate the neighborhood riff-raffs' probations. thx for playing, ba-bye...

rkba707
11-03-2010, 7:08 AM
I voted no. Why let the state regulate it when Arnold just decriminalized it? That would be a step backwards in my opinion.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2010/oct/01/california_governor_signs_mariju

tombinghamthegreat
11-03-2010, 10:00 AM
voted yes

"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite." - Thomas Jefferson

POLICESTATE
11-03-2010, 10:11 AM
I voted yes because I wanted to see a fight between CA and the Federal Govt, and I thought it was an excellent issue for them to fight over. Fact is, it's probably best for most stoners that pot remain illegal, if it were legalized it would end up costing more due to taxes.