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View Full Version : What makes an LMT complete lower better than a Stag?


Droppin Deuces
11-01-2010, 7:00 PM
After trying to figure out for the past two weeks which shotgun to buy, I've decided that another AR is the way to go. I'll get the shotgun some other time.
Anyway, I think I'm just going to buy a complete lower - LMT to be specific, because I want to put together a plain jane LMT M4. I did get to wondering, though, what it is that makes a complete LMT lower cost $60 more than a complete Stag. I'm sure someone here knows the answer to this.
I have handled complete rifles from both manufacturers, and to be honest, the Stag felt nice and solid. The LMT, however, just felt superior to me. I couldn't really figure out why it was. Maybe the nice pistol grip? Maybe the name. Is the complete LMT M4 ~$300 better than the Stag equivalent?

X-NewYawker
11-01-2010, 7:11 PM
"Milspec?"
I dunno.
LMT supposedly built to high standards, good customer service.

Rates higher on all of the things on this spreadsheet from M4.com:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

Lowers seem pretty evenly matched but the rest of their parts are killer. I would want a whole gun with the same manufacturer...

X-NewYawker
11-01-2010, 7:12 PM
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/_MG_4630.jpg

Droppin Deuces
11-01-2010, 7:20 PM
Yeah, I definitely want the LMT and will probably get it. Just want to be sure of what I'm paying for in terms of overall quality. I figure I already have a fancy AR, so I want a top tier vanilla M4, complete with carry handle. Oh yeah, gotta pony up the extra $100 for the LMT handle...

Who do I have to talk to if I want to get an extended A2 flash hider pinned on the(14.5") upper?

UserM4
11-01-2010, 7:24 PM
The last few new Stag's I felt had awesome factory triggers fyi.

Droppin Deuces
11-01-2010, 7:27 PM
The last few new Stag's I felt had awesome factory triggers fyi.

Is that the same trigger that comes with their LPK? That's what I'm running right now with JP springs.

Cyc Wid It
11-01-2010, 7:58 PM
LMT 2 stage trigger upgrade, SOPMOD stock. Done deal.

UserM4
11-01-2010, 8:02 PM
Is that the same trigger that comes with their LPK? That's what I'm running right now with JP springs.

I believe so. They pull weight was standard AR stuff but the break was extremely crisp for a standard LPK. I couldn't believe it. I tried 3 rifles and all three were excellent.

Droppin Deuces
11-01-2010, 8:06 PM
I believe so. They pull weight was standard AR stuff but the break was extremely crisp for a standard LPK. I couldn't believe it. I tried 3 rifles and all three were excellent.

Yeah, it's very good. Putting the yellow springs in lightened it up a little bit and it stayed nice and crisp.

LMT 2 stage trigger upgrade, SOPMOD stock. Done deal.

Was toying with the idea of buying that complete as well, but I'm not sure I need it. I know people like the feel of the SOPMOD stock, but I'm not a big fan.

CHS
11-01-2010, 10:05 PM
1.) Ergo Grip (25$)
2.) Better quality buffer tube (with milspec dry-lube finish, +10$)
3.) Better QA of EVERY single part. Stag only does batch testing.

ArkinDomino
11-01-2010, 10:56 PM
What makes an LMT lower better than a Stag?

You won't be embarrassed by it! :43:

Droppin Deuces
11-01-2010, 11:21 PM
Good enough for me!

killshot44
11-01-2010, 11:32 PM
What makes an LMT lower better than a Stag?

You won't be embarrassed by it! :43:

Haters keep hating....nothing new.

LMT, Stag, BCM, Spikes.......lowers are just partholders...spend your $ on the Barrel and Trigger.

Droppin Deuces
11-02-2010, 12:00 AM
Haters keep hating....nothing new.

LMT, Stag, BCM, Spikes.......lowers are just partholders...spend your $ on the Barrel and Trigger.

This I understand. Before I ever purchased my first lower, the guy explained the differences(or relative lack thereof) to me. What I'm most curious about is the LPK and overall process that goes into creating the LMT complete lower compared to the Stag, and bdsmchs helped me there. If I were buying a stripped lower, I'd just pick up another Kaiser. Heck, I may still do that.

silenthunter
11-02-2010, 12:13 AM
^^^newb.

so whats the difference between a 1 stage trigger and a 2 stage? which is better?

Average Joe American
11-02-2010, 12:26 AM
I am surprised this aint common knowledge by now but in the grand scheme of decent lowers...they are all the same and cannot be differentiated in a blind test. Just pick the lower with the coolest roll mark that you can afford because it aint going to be leaps and bounds better than any other lower. If impressing folks is your thing then go ahead and spend $100 more than you really need to.

Btw, Stag may not get the oohs & aahhs from the shooter next to you with a $2000 gun...but Stag and more importantly its parent company CMT, have been making M16/AR15 parts since the Vietnam war and Stag has a lifetime warranty. I'd put my Stag up against a $2100 Bushmaster ACR any day.

The true heart of an AR is its barrel, bolt, BCG and buffer. Spend top dollar on those parts and your gun will serve you well regardless of what design is on your lower.

Cyc Wid It
11-02-2010, 12:47 AM
I am surprised this aint common knowledge by now but in the grand scheme of decent lowers...they are all the same and cannot be differentiated in a blind test. Just pick the lower with the coolest roll mark that you can afford because it aint going to be leaps and bounds better than any other lower. If impressing folks is your thing then go ahead and spend $100 more than you really need to.

Btw, Stag may not get the oohs & aahhs from the shooter next to you with a $2000 gun...but Stag and more importantly its parent company CMT, have been making M16/AR15 parts since the Vietnam war and Stag has a lifetime warranty. I'd put my Stag up against a $2100 Bushmaster ACR any day.

The true heart of an AR is its barrel, bolt, BCG and buffer. Spend top dollar on those parts and your gun will serve you well regardless of what design is on your lower.

Ah, but Stag doesn't require CMT to test the parts they buy as extensively. We all know the ACR has its issues, bad comparison! :p

freonr22
11-02-2010, 12:49 AM
btw, unrelated, but LMT Cryo's all their barrels

BAGunner
11-02-2010, 12:57 AM
LMT's LPK is 2nd only to Colt, the trigger has zero creep! G&R's LPK uses LMT's bolt catch and selector.

jackliu239
11-02-2010, 2:12 AM
Get LMT over Stag, the buffer spring detent thingy on my Stag lower part kit is already bend with just under 500 rounds. It still works ok, but I don't think the quality is that good.

CHS
11-02-2010, 9:41 AM
1.) Ergo Grip (25$)
2.) Better quality buffer tube (with milspec dry-lube finish, +10$)
3.) Better QA of EVERY single part. Stag only does batch testing.

Forgot to add:

4.) Better quality collapsible stock (assuming standard M4 lower, not SOPMOD) with *NO* wobble.

X-NewYawker
11-02-2010, 9:47 AM
If all lowers were the "same" how come some of my uppers don't line up with my Spike's lowers but do with my LMT? Don't underestimate what holding themselves to a slightly higher standard will do for even a lowly lower.

BAGunner
11-02-2010, 9:57 AM
Here is the math:
Last time I checked @ M4Carbine, a LMT LPK is $170 - $70 = $100 premium; Ergo Grip $20 - $2 = $18 premium; I would rate their buffer tube at least $15 premium. That's 100+18+15 = $133 premium all together. Even if discounted at 50%, it's still $67.

Peter.Steele
11-02-2010, 10:04 AM
Yeah, it's very good. Putting the yellow springs in lightened it up a little bit and it stayed nice and crisp.



Was toying with the idea of buying that complete as well, but I'm not sure I need it. I know people like the feel of the SOPMOD stock, but I'm not a big fan.


Tell you what, you buy it with the SOPMOD stock, and I'll trade you dead even a normal 6-pos stock for it, since you don't like the SOPMOD. :D

Droppin Deuces
11-02-2010, 11:10 AM
Tell you what, you buy it with the SOPMOD stock, and I'll trade you dead even a normal 6-pos stock for it, since you don't like the SOPMOD. :D

Great idea! Wait...