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View Full Version : idea for mosins fiberglass stocks, you guys think this is a dumb idea?


Haggar85
10-31-2010, 2:25 PM
so this buddy of mine works with a lot of polymers and silicones and rubbers making Hollywood style props. i have spet some time watching him work on things from Klingon foreheads to Micheal jackson thriller replica facial latex that simulates zombification.
i was interested in the Chinese stocks that were fiberglass resin, i would not buy one just cause i do not support slave labor. the theory behind the fiberglass resin stock was it was impervious to elements, hence no warping or rotting. i thought about making a fiberglass resin or polymer stock for a mosin. no one seems to do a regular stock, every things all monte carlo...
i would use a war time stock that was reasonably simple and remove all hard wear. i would pours a pretty stiff rubber material to make the mold and them cut the mold into to halves, but not damage the stock in the process.
my buddy has a simple injection set up and he built for injecting latex and other materials into molds. using and air compressor and pressurizing (his currently works of gravity.)it would allow it to move more gelatinous materials. i was thinking some hard hockey puck like plastic, or i could go the fiberglass route.
the point of all of this would be to have a stock that would not get dinged up and scratched or chew in other ways.
think its a dumb idea?

bigstick61
10-31-2010, 2:37 PM
I don't know much abut manufacturing such stocks but conceptually it is a great idea. I know people who would want to buy them if they didn't come out too heavy. Me personally I would love to see a good quality, lightweight, synthetic version of the No. 5 Lee-Enfield stock (including handguard) or even one with a revived Clifton hideaway bipod built into it; a one-piece version designed for a weapon that has had the buttsocket removed would be even better. The problem is the lack of a market apparently and for custom one-off stuff the high cost of making a mold and such for just one or two items. Even just a simple repro in decent synthetic would be sweet, though. I think quite a few milsurp owners would like to be able to put on synthetic stocks. How much do you expect the process to cost per stock design?

Haggar85
10-31-2010, 3:09 PM
the mold should cost about 20 bucks in materials to make, the life of the rubber mold would be around 10+ but below 20 "pulls". so factoring in the cost of the materials to injection mold it, i think for around 15 to 20 bucks in materials for 1 stock. the variables are the life of the mold and the quality of the injection, air bubbles or flash aside. the first pull would be crude by most standards but functional and cost about 40 bucks from start to finish. the second, third and so on would be around 15 to 20. and i figure that i could made be make one stock in about 5 hours or so
i think i would probably texture the plastic with glass bead blasting.
if i went the fiberglass route things would be smoother and more aesthetically pleasing, but i would be unsure of the strength of the fiberglass.
another plus with plastics would be that i could color them to what ever i wanted. im unsure of making a business of it and slim niche market at best.

CSACANNONEER
10-31-2010, 3:20 PM
You need to learn and understand stock design and the importance of bedding before you start. Also, most mil surplus collectors do NOT want non authentic stocks. So, your target market would be Bubbas only. That said, it would still be an interesting project.

TKM
10-31-2010, 3:23 PM
Real world economics and bar napkin economics are a brutal distance apart.

Haggar85
10-31-2010, 3:33 PM
im not thinking of selling these really, it more for my personal use, i have 4 mosins. my buddy has 5, that would be 9 mosin. this is well with in the life of the mold. i understand people would NOT really want these because of authenticity and what have you. bar napkins and bubba's aside, a polymer or fiberglass stock would be some thing that i would climb a rocky slope with and not chew up a birch stock.
i think the nature of my posting was to more to getting some idea if any one had done it or have any experience at this. not really aiming at a sales pitch or trolling for argument.

CSACANNONEER
10-31-2010, 3:51 PM
I think the biggest hurdle will be properly designing and bedding them. There are reasons that there are not many high end custom stock makers. It's not easy to produce quality stocks like MacMillians or Manners stocks.

Haggar85
10-31-2010, 3:59 PM
well given that i have 4 stocks personally and others are available, i would find the best of them and replicate that one. i have a war time 43 stock that is bulky on the exterior but that stock in particular fits all my other mosins. my 1929 stock does not really fit well on the 43 mosin or my 42. so i figure that if it fits the others than its probably the best candidate to use as a positive for a mold. granted that its might not be a perfect cast but i could possibly sand and fit things as needed.

CSACANNONEER
10-31-2010, 4:55 PM
I'm talking about properly designing and reenforcing the stock structurally. I think any moron can make it the shape they want. Structural integrity and proper bedding are things you should research before starting. Remember that you are not talking about duplicating a wood stock. Instead, you are going to use an entirely different material.

Fjold
10-31-2010, 5:15 PM
Take a look at your Mosin stocks. They're 60-80 years old now, are they rotted or warped?

If you make stocks out of plastics you have to know how that type of plastic withstands and reacts to physical shock. Different materials will require different geometry and material thicknesses.

Haggar85
10-31-2010, 6:20 PM
i was thinking about glass filled nylon. its melting temperature is 420 degrees and strong. exactly what type of nylon i have yet to determine. glass filled nylon is used as a synthetic in knives that can pass through metal detectors and can hold an edge. as for reinforcing inside the nylon in not sure exactly what to use, perhaps some type of wire mesh, or yet again the fiberglass is an option. the Chinese used that and had good results with their sks's.
just to clarify i am not going to melt down a bucket of green army men, pour it into a mold and expect it to work. my objective is to make a synthetic stock that looks like the issued stock, not some back woods retard red neck stock made of crap quality materials. the prices i looked at for the nylon were on or abouts 20 for the nylon required, granted that particular type might not be exactly what i use. it might be 40 or 50 or 60 for one stock. any moron can make a what ever out of what ever he has on hand, i want to do this right and have some thing functional. the stock i am going to use is not rotted or warped fyi.

TKM
10-31-2010, 6:43 PM
If you can actually build a (functional) stock and have it on your rifle in less than a month I will send you a shiny new twenty dollar bill.


It's not a dumb idea. Trying to do it is a dumb idea.

CSACANNONEER
10-31-2010, 6:51 PM
I think you made it clear that you would be using quality products. Just remember that the architecture of a stock will need to be changed for depending on the medium used.

Peter.Steele
10-31-2010, 9:34 PM
If you can actually build a (functional) stock and have it on your rifle in less than a month I will send you a shiny new twenty dollar bill.


It's not a dumb idea. Trying to do it is a dumb idea.




Does that challenge require the use of nylon and fiberglass as materials, or can the stock be made of, in general, whatever is functional?

I'm not saying I'm taking it up yet ... I need another week or so to see whether or not I'll have the tooling ready and available to use ...

Bukowski
10-31-2010, 9:36 PM
i am not going to melt down a bucket of green army men, pour it into a mold and expect it to work.

:rofl:

OK that got me to spit beer all over the keyboard...

stitchnicklas
10-31-2010, 10:03 PM
i would love a mosin in a draganov style stock....

Haggar85
10-31-2010, 10:15 PM
actually thinking about it, the fiber glass and phenolic resin sounds best. theres a guy in san daigo that makes large amounts of it and has them in billet form. although probably really expensive putting that block of the Fiber glass resin on a replicator would probably be easier than making molds and casting one. he says his products are rated for industrial uses as well and technological stuff like circuit boards. he has fiber glass, linen, cotton and canvas resin materials. i think the fiberglass would work the best. it would be like the Chinese jungle stock. the color is about that same too. that way i can beat the crap out of it and not worry as much as a birch stock. best of all it will not be made by slave labor

Lucky Scott
11-01-2010, 1:02 PM
How about doing one of those stocks like the high accuracy Finn marksman rifles. Not sure what they are called, but Empire has the rifles for about a grand. I would like to put a Mosin action in one like the finns did.


Edit: They are called...Finn Model 28-76 Mosin Nagant military match rifles

bryan1919
11-01-2010, 9:30 PM
I think what would be best now is a "concept design"... draw it out first. Draw out different colors, materials, etc.... see how it looks. That's why they use storyboards in the movies ya know?
I like the idea of possibly bringing the weight down a bit too.

Interloper
11-01-2010, 10:25 PM
Haggar85,
CSACANNONEER is trying to explain something and I don't think you are listening.
Even if you pour a stock to perfect dimensions out of the finest materials it might still fail under fire.
Run a bandsaw through any synthetic stock and you'll see that it is not a single homogeneous pour but a carefully designed series of materials and structures.
Your enterprise is doomed to failure unless you can grasp that.

knucklehead0202
11-02-2010, 11:46 PM
hey you could make them out of that fake wood Home Depot sells, then stain it like a real one. durability and the looks. use the fake wood, light burn some marbling in it then lacquer or stain it to look like an original. makes sense to me. CSA makes a good point, it's gotta be properly engineered or it's junk. then you're just some "bubba" jerk like me with an ATI stock on a frankenstein gun. :D i'm going to start a "non-profit" "sporter rescue". i work for people that do greyhound rescue, why can't i do the same with sporterized military rifles, i dearly love them, all shapes and sizes. bring them to me, i'll give them a good home...

pullnshoot25
11-02-2010, 11:59 PM
Can your buddy make me a fake Mosin receiver so I can make a prop gun for school displays? Pretty please? :) :) :)

Haggar85
11-03-2010, 8:44 AM
gents i think i am not being articulate enough and opposed to not listening or attempting to be and ***.
CSA cannoneer , i apologize if i came off the wrong way...i tip my forge cap.

reinforced with a mesh of some type absolutely. one homogeneous pour, no way that would work. like you guys said need to be reinforced with some thing and every thing done properly
i have been tossing around ideas and i think that the glass filled nylon would be some thing way out of my league. the glass filled would have to be reinforced with a wire mesh of some type. the problem i find, is that if i made a hard rubber mold and filled it with a mesh of some sort and just injected what ever materials, there is a pretty good change thing go astray. would the mesh stay in place while the other materials would be injected, if they shifted it would make that stock unsuitable.
injection molding a stock out is probably not a great idea.
i think the fiberglass route is the way to go. the biggest obstacle in that would be do i get a block of fiberglass phonelic resin and have it turned on a replicator then sand and fit. it i went this route i would buy a cross bolt off of numrich and use that. for other areas stress bearing areas i would have them padded with a hard rubber so it would not be the steel against the fiberglass.
my buddy had the idea of vacuum forming a mold and laying fiberglass in and applying the epoxy resin by hand. this seems kind of foolish if i could just by a block and have it made professionally, then do minor adjustments my self ( like fitting n what not.)

ill talk to my buddy about a mock mosin receiver, im not sure what he'll say but he usually works in resins and some times plastics. he makes robo cop and halo master chief armor and things like that. there was one point where he wanted to make a resin tusken raider rifle. i told him what to make it out of. it was going to be a mosin action with a simple barrel and a enfield No.4 sight protector with a hand made (carved resin) mannlicher type scope mount. he was going to buy a sporterized mosins stock and throw it down the street for an after noon to get the damage effects realistic, the decorate it with brass bits and beads to get the decorative desert space dweller vibe to it.

pullnshoot25
11-05-2010, 8:53 AM
gents i think i am not being articulate enough and opposed to not listening or attempting to be and ***.
CSA cannoneer , i apologize if i came off the wrong way...i tip my forge cap.

reinforced with a mesh of some type absolutely. one homogeneous pour, no way that would work. like you guys said need to be reinforced with some thing and every thing done properly
i have been tossing around ideas and i think that the glass filled nylon would be some thing way out of my league. the glass filled would have to be reinforced with a wire mesh of some type. the problem i find, is that if i made a hard rubber mold and filled it with a mesh of some sort and just injected what ever materials, there is a pretty good change thing go astray. would the mesh stay in place while the other materials would be injected, if they shifted it would make that stock unsuitable.
injection molding a stock out is probably not a great idea.
i think the fiberglass route is the way to go. the biggest obstacle in that would be do i get a block of fiberglass phonelic resin and have it turned on a replicator then sand and fit. it i went this route i would buy a cross bolt off of numrich and use that. for other areas stress bearing areas i would have them padded with a hard rubber so it would not be the steel against the fiberglass.
my buddy had the idea of vacuum forming a mold and laying fiberglass in and applying the epoxy resin by hand. this seems kind of foolish if i could just by a block and have it made professionally, then do minor adjustments my self ( like fitting n what not.)

ill talk to my buddy about a mock mosin receiver, im not sure what he'll say but he usually works in resins and some times plastics. he makes robo cop and halo master chief armor and things like that. there was one point where he wanted to make a resin tusken raider rifle. i told him what to make it out of. it was going to be a mosin action with a simple barrel and a enfield No.4 sight protector with a hand made (carved resin) mannlicher type scope mount. he was going to buy a sporterized mosins stock and throw it down the street for an after noon to get the damage effects realistic, the decorate it with brass bits and beads to get the decorative desert space dweller vibe to it.

That would be so awesome and would help promote my club immensely!