PDA

View Full Version : turner's WASR or BIG 5 YUGO SKS?


turbosubie
10-31-2010, 8:34 AM
I am just looking for a decent Semi plinker. Turners has the WASR for 399 and Big 5 has the Yugo SKS. What would be the est buy on these and why?

Thanks

sherm2954
10-31-2010, 9:33 AM
Don't bother with either...
Buy a Saiga (it IS an AK) for $380...you'll have a totally reliable rifle made by the Izmash Factory in Russia...and you can convert it for about $100 maximum and you are good for the end of the world...

http://www.ddsranch.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=277_290_388

turbosubie
10-31-2010, 11:04 AM
What am i converting from or to?

Eat Dirt
10-31-2010, 11:19 AM
I think I would go for the WASR .
I have an SKS .....It's nice ... But that WASR looks TOO Cool

CSACANNONEER
10-31-2010, 11:22 AM
You can take a Saiga and give it a more conventional AK look.

I have 3 SKSes, 3 different WASRs, a stock Saiga and a few other AK parttern rifles. First of all, the SKS pattern rifle is not an AK and should not be compared to an AK. If you want a cheap plinker, you can find SKS type rifles here a bit cheaper than Big5. SKSes are great rifles and yugo 59/66s have the advantage of being able to turn off the gas port and shoot a bit farther. The WASRs are breat guns for the price and cost about as much as building your own AK from a parts kit with an OEM barrel. Saigas run very smooth but, I'd rather build a complete rifle and leave my Saiga in stock form. For me, it's not worth investing a bunch of cash into converting a Saiga. I like mine sporter style and will just build more AKs from military parts kits instead.

In the end, I'd find a SKS, WASR or Sagia (converted or not) in the classified adds here instead of spending more at a shop. Although, the $399 WASRs aren't the worst price I've ever seen.

thrillhouse700
10-31-2010, 11:25 AM
You will be converting it into this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI0AzYwIILQ

jk, I'm fairly new to the AK world but the Saiga comes in a sporter configuration. Think Remington 870 grip. So when you convert you will move the trigger group forward so that you can install a pistol grip. From what I am to understand the converted trigger is much better than the non converted.
You would also need to be 922r compliant when you convert or change anything on the Saiga.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

the website I have been checking things out on is
http://tickbitesupply.com/ak.html
and
http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/saigaconversion.html
and
http://www.dinzagarms.com/index.html

Im still learning too but with those sites and this site I have picked up a lot of info.

slomofo
10-31-2010, 2:29 PM
SKS

Cokebottle
10-31-2010, 2:42 PM
I would not buy a WASR from Turners.
IF I were to buy a WASR, I would get one of the Henderson "certified" WASRs.
Century quality is really hit and miss (same with the other US makers). I was chatting with the guy out at Bright Spot a few months ago, and he said that he had pretty good luck with them, then all of a sudden, he had returns on all 5 rifles from one shipment.... but they were not all the same problem. Canted sight, FTE, FTF, etc... just various build quality issues.

supratreo
10-31-2010, 5:58 PM
so where is the best place to get a WASR (price and quality)? my local gun shop has them but where do they get them? Century?

Cokebottle
10-31-2010, 6:16 PM
so where is the best place to get a WASR (price and quality)? my local gun shop has them but where do they get them? Century?
Everyone gets them from Century... they are the importers for the WASR line.

Like I said... Henderson Defense has "certified" WASRs for a slightly higher price, but still not bad.
Might check with Riflegear. They have AKs from time to time and I believe they are also Century. Riflegear would be one of the few local FFLs that I'd trust to get me a good one.
Turners?
They're going to open the shipping container, ship one to each store, and that's all.

TNP'R
10-31-2010, 6:18 PM
Everyone gets them from Century... they are the importers for the WASR line.

Like I said... Henderson Defense has "certified" WASRs for a slightly higher price, but still not bad.
Might check with Riflegear. They have AKs from time to time and I believe they are also Century. Riflegear would be one of the few local FFLs that I'd trust to get me a good one.
Turners?
They're going to open the shipping container, ship one to each store, and that's all.
Are you sure that "certified" isn't just a gimmick?

cc56
10-31-2010, 6:29 PM
What is the first hand experience with these? I am considering one and want to know true good and bad? Also I don't know what WASR means, is that a brand or like a model number?

supratreo
10-31-2010, 6:32 PM
thanks.

what does certified mean?

also, whats a good price for a WASR-10. i've been wanting a AK style rifle but don't know if i should convert a saiga or just buy a WASR.

Sherm: wouldn't it get expensive by the time you get the wood furniture and the bullet guide.
wouldn't all AK parts fit a WASR, such as mags....

TNP'R
10-31-2010, 6:42 PM
thanks.

what does certified mean?

also, whats a good price for a WASR-10. i've been wanting a AK style rifle but don't know if i should convert a saiga or just buy a WASR.

Sherm: wouldn't it get expensive by the time you get the wood furniture and the bullet guide.
wouldn't all AK parts fit a WASR, such as mags....

if i had a choice between a wasr or converting a saiga id convert the saiga. you can't get a better ak than the saiga.

Cokebottle
10-31-2010, 6:49 PM
Are you sure that "certified" isn't just a gimmick?
I haven't heard from anyone that's gotten a bad one....
and we've seen plenty of reports of problems with Century rifles.

ZX-10R
10-31-2010, 6:57 PM
I'd get the SKS and the order a WASR that is not single stack. However, being in CA does it really matter?

supratreo
10-31-2010, 7:02 PM
is it easy to find single stack mags? if not, how much work is it to convert?

also, if you just wanted a plinker like the OP (and I) want, what would be most reasonable?

TNP'R
10-31-2010, 7:26 PM
is it easy to find single stack mags? if not, how much work is it to convert?

also, if you just wanted a plinker like the OP (and I) want, what would be most reasonable?

theres tutorials and videos on youtube on how to convert a saiga.I havent done mine but from what i seen on the videos and read on the forums its pretty easy to do.

supratreo
10-31-2010, 7:44 PM
sorry, i mean is it easy to convert a WASR to accept a double stack mag.

TNP'R
10-31-2010, 7:57 PM
sorry, i mean is it easy to convert a WASR to accept a double stack mag.

no that was my fault lol. i misread it. im so use to people wanting to convert saiga's i automatically typed that haha.

vicb
10-31-2010, 8:03 PM
Is it just me or are Saiga's plain ugly?

TNP'R
10-31-2010, 8:09 PM
Is it just me or are Saiga's plain ugly?

So? it should be function over fashion(looks).

Mac
10-31-2010, 8:24 PM
What is the first hand experience with these? I am considering one and want to know true good and bad? Also I don't know what WASR means, is that a brand or like a model number?

W= Wassenaar
A = Arrangement
S = Semiautomatic
R = Rifle
10 = Ten round single stack magazine

http://www.wassenaar.org/introduction/howitworks.html

supratreo
10-31-2010, 10:18 PM
so i just checked out rifle gear and the wasr is $150 more than the saiga 7.62. why is this if the saiga is a better rifle? is it just because the wasr is a "ak-47"?

TNP'R
10-31-2010, 11:22 PM
so i just checked out rifle gear and the wasr is $150 more than the saiga 7.62. why is this if the saiga is a better rifle? is it just because the wasr is a "ak-47"?

I don't know, my guess is marketing.someone else might know but the saiga is a ak-47 minus the pistol grip, also its made in the factory that the genuine russian ak-47's are made in.i mean really would you rather have a romanian ak or the russian ak. its like would you buy a knock off ar-15 made in china? lol

supratreo
11-01-2010, 12:31 AM
honestly, i wouldn't mind either. :)

vicb
11-01-2010, 9:33 AM
WASR all the way! No knock on Saiga but that thing does nothing for taste. If I were to buy something for superb functionality I would definately go with something other than a Saiga. For a plinker it works for me...

evidens83
11-01-2010, 9:36 AM
If your gonna leave it alone and not bubba it I would definately go with the SKS. If you're choosing based on tacticool looks than I would skip both and get a Saiga and modify it!

CSACANNONEER
11-01-2010, 10:11 AM
so i just checked out rifle gear and the wasr is $150 more than the saiga 7.62. why is this if the saiga is a better rifle? is it just because the wasr is a "ak-47"?

They are BOTH AK47 patterned rifles. The Saiga is just in a different configuration but, it is no less an AK than any other AK type of weapon. If you want to keep the Saiga in it's OEM state, it's the better purchase. If you want to take the time and expense of "converting" it to a more traditional configuration, you need to figure out exactly how far you want to go with the conversion and what the cost in time and money will be before deciding on one vs. the other.

Mac
11-01-2010, 4:36 PM
If your gonna leave it alone and not bubba it I would definately go with the SKS. If you're choosing based on tacticool looks than I would skip both and get a Saiga and modify it!

^^This^^

The WASR is - well an ugly stepchild of our goofy gun laws to get them into the U.S. During the Federal Ban 94-04. I hear that post 05 imports of parts kits are the the Real McCoy's as far as the magwell not being a single stack opening.

Again heresay, since most I have seen are the single stack
opening variety. Can be dremeled out to accept Normal AK mags but who do you want to do that - Century?
Maybe a builder who has his act together? So they have issues sometimes and not only with the magwell. Some have good luck though but why throw the dice initially.

Saiga: Russian AK - period. Albeit disguised.

The reason I agree with the above is the Yugo's M59 (Dried up) and M59/66's will be gone one day soon.
Best get one or 3 while you can. Saiga's and WASR's will be around for the foreseeable future.

Just my .03 sorry for the long diatribe.

Cokebottle
11-01-2010, 6:01 PM
I hear that post 05 imports of parts kits are the the Real McCoy's as far as the magwell not being a single stack opening.
Heard wrong.

"Parts kits" are imported with a torch-cut receiver and they are remanufactured on a domestic receiver here in the US.

Now, I'm not saying that Century is bending flats for the WASR. I thought they were, but I read that they are imported as functional rifles.
922(r) has not changed since 2004... a non-sporting rifle may still not be imported, and it may not be (re)manufactured with more than 10 imported parts.
So if Century is importing completed, functional rifles, they must be in a "sporting" configuration, which apparently excludes double-stack mag configurations.

If they are importing parts kits, they can build the receivers to take any magazine they'd like, so long as they contain no more than 10 imported parts when complete. IF they do contain more than 10 imported parts, then the "sporting" requirement would still apply and they may build the receivers to take single stack.

supratreo
11-01-2010, 6:52 PM
well, don't all WASR's come with a muzzle brake and PG? if so, a mag lock is required which means you will be limited to 10rd mags. so there's no point in having DS mags if you have a lock. if your in a different situation where you can use pre bans then thats different.

TNP'R
11-01-2010, 7:01 PM
WASR all the way! No knock on Saiga but that thing does nothing for taste. If I were to buy something for superb functionality I would definately go with something other than a Saiga. For a plinker it works for me...

its an ak without a pistol grip and russian made a WASR have nothing on them.

Cokebottle
11-01-2010, 7:07 PM
well, don't all WASR's come with a muzzle brake and PG? if so, a mag lock is required which means you will be limited to 10rd mags. so there's no point in having DS mags if you have a lock. if your in a different situation where you can use pre bans then thats different.
The PG is the only "evil feature".
Muzzle brake is not.

A kydex wrap or an MMG (if you can find one, they stopped making the adapters for the AK), and you can remove the mag lock and use any high-cap pre-bans that you own.

supratreo
11-01-2010, 7:18 PM
hmm sorry i thought the slant brake on the end counted as a muzzle brake. either way, the PG requires it to have a mag lock and 10rd mag so the option to use a double stack doesn't matter. unless of course you remove the PG, which now i'm thinking might be cool if i get some pre bans.

this shouldn't be this complicated haha.
either way, i've been looking into both WASR's and Saigas and it looks like by the time your done converting a saiga you pretty much going to spend just as much as buying a WASR which is $5-600.

anyway, the OP was wondering if he should get a SKS or WASR, how are they related? aren't they 2 completely different riffles?

Ksmash01
11-01-2010, 7:30 PM
WASR + MMG = You can use all the pre-CA ban mags you have/want.


or is the WASR not compatible with MMG's.....?

CSACANNONEER
11-01-2010, 7:33 PM
hmm sorry i thought the slant brake on the end counted as a muzzle brake. either way, the PG requires it to have a mag lock and 10rd mag so the option to use a double stack doesn't matter. unless of course you remove the PG, which now i'm thinking might be cool if i get some pre bans.

this shouldn't be this complicated haha.
either way, i've been looking into both WASR's and Saigas and it looks like by the time your done converting a saiga you pretty much going to spend just as much as buying a WASR which is $5-600.

anyway, the OP was wondering if he should get a SKS or WASR, how are they related? aren't they 2 completely different riffles?

The slant brake is a muzzle brake and counts as far as 922(r) goes. But, MBs are not considered "evil fetures" as far as Ca AW laws go.

You can use a MM or a gripwrap and not need a mag lock as long as you don't have any other "evil features".

Yes, AK patterned rifles are NOTHING like SKS patterned rifles.

Mac
11-01-2010, 8:16 PM
Heard wrong.

"Parts kits" are imported with a torch-cut receiver and they are remanufactured on a domestic receiver here in the US.

Now, I'm not saying that Century is bending flats for the WASR. I thought they were, but I read that they are imported as functional rifles.
922(r) has not changed since 2004... a non-sporting rifle may still not be imported, and it may not be (re)manufactured with more than 10 imported parts.
So if Century is importing completed, functional rifles, they must be in a "sporting" configuration, which apparently excludes double-stack mag configurations.

If they are importing parts kits, they can build the receivers to take any magazine they'd like, so long as they contain no more than 10 imported parts when complete. IF they do contain more than 10 imported parts, then the "sporting" requirement would still apply and they may build the receivers to take single stack.

Yeah thanks for clarifying that cokebottle I was wondering the same about that. Why I mentioned heresay as opposed to FUD. The 922 sporting thing. Could it be
other States are getting complete rifles (that accept AK mags)since the ban is lifted in free states since 04? Or is the 922 sporting purposes import law prohibiting that? Meaning US made receivers and single stack WASR only.

Cokebottle
11-01-2010, 8:25 PM
Yeah thanks for clarifying that cokebottle I was wondering the same about that. Why I mentioned heresay as opposed to FUD. The 922 sporting thing. Could it be
other States are getting complete rifles since the ban is lifted in free states since 04? Or is the 922 sporting purposes import law prohibiting that? Meaning US made receivers
922(r) has nothing to do with the assault weapons ban and is still in full force in 50 states.

The difference is, in free states, they can have non-neutered semi-autos that the CaDOJ considers to be assault weapons.
922(r) compliance is met by the rifle being (re)manufactured using fewer than 10 imported parts.
The very same rifles can be built and owned here as long as they have a maglock or are a "featureless" build.

One of our moderators has personally built enough AK pattern rifles to outfit a small army :D

Mac
11-01-2010, 8:40 PM
answer me this if you will. Are the WASR's being imported since 05
ALL single stack?

DirtyJerz
11-01-2010, 8:44 PM
answer me this if you will. Are the WASR's being imported since 05
ALL single stack?

And if so, wouldn't this be a benefit so as to avoid the possible mag wobble?

Mac
11-01-2010, 9:00 PM
And if so, wouldn't this be a benefit so as to avoid the possible mag wobble?

Ha yeah I guess so :D

Still I don't care for the look myself.
Man, talk about confusion (On my part). Luckily I am not a Lawyer or there would be a lot of folks doing time right now.

chalk it up to a brain fart.:)

jackliu239
11-01-2010, 10:06 PM
I love my SKS more than my WASR, just feel like a more solid piece of machinery.

ohlone
11-02-2010, 12:03 AM
are those saiga using double stack mag?

SanPedroShooter
11-02-2010, 4:51 AM
The slant brake is a muzzle brake and counts as far as 922(r) goes. But, MBs are not considered "evil fetures" as far as Ca AW laws go.

You can use a MM or a gripwrap and not need a mag lock as long as you don't have any other "evil features".

Yes, AK patterned rifles are NOTHING like SKS patterned rifles.

Do really think these rifles dont have some similar traits? As an owner of both, being able to study them side by side leads me to some conclusions about Kalashnikov's design. The AK seems like an streamlined (less parts, simpler) version of the larger and more complicated design.

CSACANNONEER
11-02-2010, 6:16 AM
Do really think these rifles dont have some similar traits? As an owner of both, being able to study them side by side leads me to some conclusions about Kalashnikov's design. The AK seems like an streamlined (less parts, simpler) version of the larger and more complicated design.

They are totally different rifles. I only own 3 SKS type rifles (Russian, Yugo and Chicom) and "a few" AK pattern rifles. The only thing they have in common is (depending on the type of AK) they both can chamber the same cartridge. What do you think they have in common?

Mac
11-02-2010, 7:30 AM
are those saiga using double stack mag?

Yes although proprietary to Saiga. They work fine. Can take AK mags with the bullet guide installed (plus filing the mag catch) and 4 U.S. made parts for 922r compliance. OK now I'm back on track.

Cokebottle
11-02-2010, 5:38 PM
are those saiga using double stack mag?
With a replacement bullet guide and modification to the mag release, they can take standard domestic and imported AK magazines.

Yes, the stock Saiga mags are doublestack.