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4thSBCT
10-30-2010, 11:34 PM
My uncle goes all out for Halloween. He spends thousands of dollars on disney quality animatronic skeletons and decorations for a huanted house. I went up there to check it all out when he surprised me by giving me my grandfather's nazi browning hi-power that he picked up off a german officer. This is by far the greatest gift someone has given me. I stripped it and examined all the parts. Lots of waffen proofs and some other stampings that I have no idea about. Maybe someone here can tell me about them. Original holster that dude cut the flap off. Has a production code of WaA140

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4863.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4862.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4870.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4878.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4869.jpg

4thSBCT
10-30-2010, 11:39 PM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4874.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4867.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4866.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4873.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4872.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/trevormoore1984/IMG_4875.jpg

7.62x54R
10-30-2010, 11:39 PM
Nice! Wish i would get nice gifts like that. Unfortunately my knowledge is weak on Hi Powers im sure someone will chime in.

Shady
10-31-2010, 12:04 AM
DAAAAMMMNNN

69Mach1
10-31-2010, 12:06 AM
Nice.

Saigon1965
10-31-2010, 12:09 AM
Cheers -

rojocorsa
10-31-2010, 12:11 AM
Wow--a bona fide Grand Puissance. I notice that it doesn't have that hole in the middle of the slide serrations.

stitchnicklas
10-31-2010, 12:18 AM
i will give you $3 for it

zipman5150
10-31-2010, 1:03 AM
Damn! Son.. I will see "stitchnicklas's" 3$ and Raise 4$ for you to keep your Grand Fathers find. Just leave it to me in your Will.......:D

Rogerbutthead
10-31-2010, 1:03 AM
The info here was culled from a number of sites.

In 1940, the Germans seized the Fabrique Nationale factory and continued to produce High Power pistols for the Wehrmacht. Collectors recognize 3 variations of High Power pistols manufactured under German occupation.

First variation models are the most valuable, they have serial numbers under 53000, and were manufactured from pre-occupation parts that were in stock at the FN factory at the time of takeover. These pistols have walnut grips, a high polish commercial grade finish, a tangent 500 meter rear sight (this is the sliding sight that you mention) and slot for a holster/shoulder stock attachment.

Second variation pistol serial numbers are in the 53000 to 145000 range. These pistols are just about the same as first variation pistols with walnut grips, a high polish commercial grade finish, a tangent 500 meter rear sight but they are not slotted for a holster/shoulder stock.

Third variation pistols were manufactured towards the end of the war, they have serial numbers over 145000 or serial numbers with letter suffix. Finish on third variation pistols is a poor quality military grade, sights are non-adjustable 50 meters and grips are either wooden or brown plastic.

The High Power pistol was designed by John Moses Browning and manufactured by Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Herstal, Belgium. The Belgians were first armed forces to adopt the High Power as an official sidearm, they did this in 1935. Between 1935 and the German capture of the FN factory on May 29, 1940 contracts were filled for the armed forces of several countries including Belgium, China, Peru, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Sweden and France.

From the plant's seizure by the Germans in May of 1940 to its liberation in September of 1944, over 319,000 High Powers pistols were manufactured for the German Wehrmacht. The first several thousand pistols were made up from captured parts and had a high polish finish, a shoulder stock slot cut into the rear grip strap and tangent rear sight. To speed production, the Germans eliminated the shoulder stock slot and then the tangent sight at about serial number 145000. As production continued, the quality of finish was reduced to dull blue over a progressively less polished metal. The Germans used three Waffenenamt stamps on High Power pistols:

Eagle over WaA613
Eagle over WaA103
Eagle over WaA140.

Your pistol is the third variation, these were stamped with eagle over WaA140, had fixed 50-meter sights, wood or brown plastic grips and dull military-blue finish over rough machine marks. The approximate serial range for this variation is 145000 to 210000, then 01a to 100000a and finally 01b to 63000b.

Yearly production of High Power pistols under German occupation was as follows:

1940..................... 8,500
1941..................... 65,700
1942..................... 80,600
1943..................... 101,200
1944..................... 63,000

So I guess your pistol was made in 1944.

westcoast362
10-31-2010, 10:07 AM
That's very nice. I prefer the ones with the rough finish. To me it adds to the history. There is a very cool picture of a Nazi SS solder in the Battle of the Bulge holding a P-35. It's a common pic, I'm sure you can Google it.
The German designation for this gun was Pistole 640(b).

Watters Edge Design
10-31-2010, 10:16 AM
I had one very close to it and sold it out of state this summer. I ranged in price from person to person and shop to shop. Cool that you had the holster. Mine was little better shape finish wise. Great gift. I was told never to load a round in manually always use the mag it will bust the ejector. Enjoy shot mine a few times took pics and flipped it when I needed some cash.

Haggar85
10-31-2010, 10:30 AM
nice! i think the krauts call them P-35

4thSBCT
10-31-2010, 10:45 AM
Found another pic of my style holster, looks like the officer cut off the top flap and also removed the spare magazine holder on the holster as well. very interesting field modification.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:uZtIslhQJ-uPkM:http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd346/drm2m/DSC09771.jpg&t=1

Rogerbutthead
10-31-2010, 11:16 AM
IMA has some decent replica holsters if you are interested.

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cPath/16_17/products_id/639

Luv those Nazi Browning HiPo's.

4thSBCT
10-31-2010, 11:56 AM
IMA has some decent replica holsters if you are interested.

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cPath/16_17/products_id/639

Luv those Nazi Browning HiPo's.

thanks but you cant beat the real thing :P

Prowler
10-31-2010, 12:02 PM
That's cool! Congrats!

My father-in-law did the same for me. I have a 1941 P-08 Luger with all matching serial numbers, including the mag and spare tool, pouch, etc. He received it from his dad. It was a trophy of war. Don't sell it. You should check eBay and try to find a pouch that would fit that era and weapon. It'll cost you, but it would make it a complete package.

Rogerbutthead
10-31-2010, 12:07 PM
Ah, did your Grandfather ever clarify if he found the holster "as is" or if he "modified" it to give it a more "Western" appearance?

I was once told that Germans were under orders not to "modify" their field equipment, but I am sure that this order - if it ever was an order - was not followed 100%.

4thSBCT
10-31-2010, 12:24 PM
Ah, did your Grandfather ever clarify if he found the holster "as is" or if he "modified" it to give it a more "Western" appearance?

I was once told that Germans were under orders not to "modify" their field equipment, but I am sure that this order - if it ever was an order - was not followed 100%.

I do not know if he modified it or not, I don't think he would have becuase he sent to the states right away. I'm sure all soldiers are told not to modify their equipment but I for one can testify it is followed maybe 6 % of the time lol

hawk81
10-31-2010, 1:13 PM
Man that is awesome.

mj1
10-31-2010, 2:19 PM
Rasta!

I wish it was mine it would hang next to my rifle,,Alas it's not to be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/d5fe95f7.jpg

Rule .308
10-31-2010, 3:21 PM
nice! i think the krauts call them P-35

No, the P-35 is the Radom VIS model. The Krauts also manufactured them under occupation and they are stamped "P35(p)" on them. The one that I own is very similar to yours in blueing and machine marks on it and is stamped "WAa77" and has the little waffenampts all over it. Very cool piece of history indeed.

beemaze
10-31-2010, 8:55 PM
This was known as the FN P35.

Pistols with the WaA140 waffenamts were known to have been sabotaged by forced laborers working in the factory. The extractors were not properly tempered and had early breakages/failures.

Great piece of history!

VegasND
10-31-2010, 9:49 PM
Very nice gift. I'd have to shoot it -- a lot!

JohanD
10-31-2010, 11:07 PM
Awesome gift, thanks for sharing!!

Buy some collector grade ammo from the period to go with it!

em9sredbeam
11-01-2010, 2:01 PM
Nice, the models stamped with the eagle and swastika are rare. The models with it stamped on the grip are more rare. got an uncle in germany trying to send that and a officers (my grandfathers) tokarev, but still havent found any ways to ship so far though.

forgiven
11-02-2010, 2:07 AM
Congrats.:)

IrishPat
11-02-2010, 11:47 AM
Actually, 'GP35.' 'GP' of course standing for 'Grand Puissance' ('High Power,' hence the term the Englisg speaking world uses to refer to these.

Outstanding weapon. You REALLY scored, and I'm glad you realize that. Like the Spanish Astras and Polish VIS 35s, the High Powers were used extensively by the Wehrmacht and WSS throughout the war. These supplemented the P.08s and P.38s that Germany produced domestically. I wouldn't store it in the holster, as that can trap ambient moisture and eventually rust the contact surfaces of the pistol, and also rot the leather.

Great pistol!
Pat

POLICESTATE
11-02-2010, 11:51 AM
OMG that's like winning the lottery, okay maybe not the jackpot, but still. Nice. Very nice indeed!

TregoMark
11-02-2010, 1:50 PM
Very cool. I love those old Brownings.

beemaze
11-03-2010, 10:16 AM
"The Hi-Power name alluded to the 13-round magazine capacity; almost twice that of contemporary designs such as the Luger or Mauser 1910. The pistol is often referred to as an HP (for "Hi-Power" or "High-Power"[4]) or as a GP (for the French term, "Grande Puissance"). The term P-35 is also used, based on the introduction of the pistol in 1935. It is most often called the "Hi-Power", even in Belgium. It is also known as the BAP (Browning Automatic Pistol), particularly in Irish service. In the Canadian Forces it is generally called a "nine mil", or, by French Canadian troops, a "neuf millimètres"."

Quoted from Wikipedia.

tayman287
11-30-2010, 8:45 PM
Wow that is a very nice Hi-power i have one very similar with the same style marking ill have to go look in the safe and look at the serial number.

GuyW
12-01-2010, 1:28 AM
With a serial # of 27162, how does that fall into the 3rd group?
.

Dr.Mauser
12-01-2010, 2:32 AM
http://www.gadgetadvisor.com/hammerfall/images/smilies/drooling%20smiley.gif

Rogerbutthead
12-01-2010, 5:06 AM
It falls into the third group as it is a "b" series pistol.

mls343
12-01-2010, 9:05 AM
Very nice!

hybridatsun350
12-01-2010, 9:24 AM
Holy ****! That's all I have to say...

GuyW
12-01-2010, 10:24 AM
It falls into the third group as it is a "b" series pistol.

....so the information about the serial numbers is incorrect...
.

Spearo
12-01-2010, 10:39 AM
That is so awesome, you came up!

Rogerbutthead
12-01-2010, 1:31 PM
I am not really sure I understand you. Perhaps you did not notice the "b" after the serial number?

The last series of HiPowers made under Nazi occupation were the "b" series in 1944.

01 b to 63000 b

His serial number is 27162 b, how does that now jive with the above data?

GuyW
12-01-2010, 1:39 PM
...First variation models are the most valuable, they have serial numbers under 53000...

Second variation pistol serial numbers are in the 53000 to 145000 range.

Third variation pistols were manufactured towards the end of the war, they have serial numbers over 145000 or serial numbers with letter suffix.


You're right, I glossed over the "numbers with letter suffix". Apparently you perceive that mark after the SN as a "b" (I don't know what it is).
.

Eljay
12-01-2010, 1:54 PM
You're right, I glossed over the "numbers with letter suffix". Apparently you perceive that mark after the SN as a "b" (I don't know what it is).
.

Google "german script" - that's how they used to write over there.

runawayshawn
12-03-2010, 11:14 AM
john browning considered this the greatest gun he ever built, his masterpiece. Its interesting that he thought this gun was better than the 1911.