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View Full Version : Legality and 03 clarification please.


VegasND
10-30-2010, 9:41 PM
I've got a couple of questions I think I know the answers to but I'll seek input here. Please let me know if I'm wrong or if there's something I'm not understanding. Remember that I'm a Nevada resident.

First: I bought 2 pistols today and one of them is C&R. But, since we were doing the 4473 and background check anyway, the FFL put them together and didn't do a C&R sale. He says I don't have to put it in my bound book -- I seem to recall that ALL C&R acquisitions while I'm licensed have to go in the book. Who's right?

Secondly, if a CA resident wants to buy a C&R rifle from me I can hand it to them after we trade licenses whether we're in CA or not.

BUT, a pistol is different: if we're inside CA I have to transfer it to them at an 01 FFL. If we're outside CA I can just give it to them after we trade licenses. Is there more?

I hope I've got this figured out, your explanations and clarifications would be appreciated.

mdouglas1980
10-30-2010, 9:45 PM
If the rifle is less than 50 years old it has to be transferred through a dealer.
Example: I just bought a Rasheed carbine from a fellow calgunner, it is not 50 years old, but is listed on the Federal C&R list. So it is a C&R but not Cash and Carry in CA.

so the rifle had to be drosed at an FFL and I have a C&R and a COE so I can take it home with me right then.

Flintlock Tom
10-30-2010, 11:02 PM
First: I bought 2 pistols today and one of them is C&R. But, since we were doing the 4473 and background check anyway, the FFL put them together and didn't do a C&R sale. He says I don't have to put it in my bound book -- I seem to recall that ALL C&R acquisitions while I'm licensed have to go in the book. Who's right?
Yes, it must go in your bound book. For the reason you stated.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-31-2010, 2:12 AM
First: I bought 2 pistols today and one of them is C&R. But, since we were doing the 4473 and background check anyway, the FFL put them together and didn't do a C&R sale. He says I don't have to put it in my bound book -- I seem to recall that ALL C&R acquisitions while I'm licensed have to go in the book. Who's right?

Yes, the C&R pistol has to go in your bound book. CFR 478.125(f) says that licensed collectors need to record "each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics."

Secondly, if a CA resident wants to buy a C&R rifle from me I can hand it to them after we trade licenses whether we're in CA or not.

Anywhere in Nevada, or anywhere in most other States besides California, you can trade licenses with a California C&R FFL and hand them any non-NFA C&R firearm. If you are doing the transfer within California then you are limited to handing them C&R long guns over 50 years old.

BUT, a pistol is different: if we're inside CA I have to transfer it to them at an 01 FFL. If we're outside CA I can just give it to them after we trade licenses.

Yes. 100% correct.

Inoxmark
10-31-2010, 8:02 AM
Anywhere in Nevada, or anywhere in most other States besides California, you can trade licenses with a California C&R FFL and hand them any non-NFA C&R firearm. If you are doing the transfer within California then you are limited to handing them C&R long guns over 50 years old.
Interesting... Would that apply to modern firearms too then?
I see logic in your statement, but you'd have to extend that logic to all firearms, not just C&R ?

VegasND
10-31-2010, 8:36 AM
Thanks! I like to ask these questions here because there's so much good knowledge and information you folks share ( especially Mssr. E ).

It's good to know I had it pretty much correct and thanks for the extra details.

emcon5
10-31-2010, 8:40 AM
Interesting... Would that apply to modern firearms too then?
I see logic in your statement, but you'd have to extend that logic to all firearms, not just C&R ?

Because what allows a California resident with a C&R FFL to buy the gun in the first place is the fact he is a C&R FFL. You can't buy modern guns on a 03 FFL.

Inoxmark
10-31-2010, 10:20 AM
Because what allows a California resident with a C&R FFL to buy the gun in the first place is the fact he is a C&R FFL. You can't buy modern guns on a 03 FFL.
Anyone can buy any gun. The question is whether FFL01 needs to be involved and where the delivery must take place.
Here's what I mean: federal law states that sale and delivery of a firearm between two residents of same state is legal. I don't see the requirement that such sale must occur in their state of residence. Maybe it's in some other law, I'd like to see it.§ 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell,trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence; and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.California's law generally prohibits such sale and transfer, Nevada's law presumably doesn't. So, if two CA residents conduct this transaction in NV, would CA law no longer apply? Because if it does apply then selling C&R handgun would still be illegal, and if it doesn't apply, selling of any non-NFA firearm is legal.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-31-2010, 2:53 PM
Interesting... Would that apply to modern firearms too then?
I see logic in your statement, but you'd have to extend that logic to all firearms, not just C&R ?

Anyone can buy any gun. The question is whether FFL01 needs to be involved and where the delivery must take place.
Here's what I mean: federal law states that sale and delivery of a firearm between two residents of same state is legal. I don't see the requirement that such sale must occur in their state of residence. Maybe it's in some other law, I'd like to see it.California's law generally prohibits such sale and transfer, Nevada's law presumably doesn't. So, if two CA residents conduct this transaction in NV, would CA law no longer apply? Because if it does apply then selling C&R handgun would still be illegal, and if it doesn't apply, selling of any non-NFA firearm is legal.

My response was tailored to VegasND's situation as a C&R FFL who is a resident of Nevada. But you are correct that two California residents could travel to another State that does not regulate private firearms transfers and transfer any firearm from one California resident to another. But the problem is that it would then be illegal under Federal law for the receiving California resident to ever transport that firearm back into California. That's because of...

§ 922(a) It shall be unlawful --

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

and...

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State...

We discussed this idea earlier of two Californians going to another State to transfer firearms that would be illegal to transfer in California. But not being able to bring the firearm back to California is kind of a problem.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=273519