Less Than Lethal Ammunition

[VeryCoolCat]

We all have seen videos where a group of people or someone gets attacked i.e. the video with the kids attacking the car.

If you pull out a firearm and just start shooting a bunch of teens who are hitting your car your going to get in deep crap when the police come along.

At least with rubber ball shots from a 12ga, you can say you have no intention of killing anyone just to defend yourself.

They make rubber bullets in 9mm and .45... If a bunch of kids are hitting your car you can just jump out and shoot once one of them gets near you to move as if attacking you.

If you were the attacker, you wouldn't be using less than lethal ammuniton and you wouldn't be standing around afterwards with a crook you tied up with a rope

[69Mach1]

I've heard rubber/plastic 12 guage pellets are lethal at point blank range.

http://www.calacep.org/lifeline/displaylifeline.html?ID=135

[NRAhighpowershooter]

The British army found out that rubber bullets are indeed lethal.. there are a bunch of dead IRA protestors to prove it......And in CA if you can find something that is non-lethal.. you're still going to get busted for discharging a firearm and get sued by the precious, loveable, choir boy's parents or at least the mother as the father is no where to be found and probaly has a few other kids by various women.....

ok.. ok.. rant off....... :eek:

[VeryCoolCat]

The entire point is to say, YOU DIDN'T MEAN TO. Stating no intention to kill.


see this is a no win situation.

(a) you get beat
(b) you lose your property
(c) you go to prison because you defended yourself

too bad we don't all have dashboard cameras.

[ohsmily]

The proper term now is "Less Lethal" not "Less than lethal" because these less lethal items have the potential to kill (and have killed).
Shooting those things (beanbags, rubber projectiles, etc) is serious and isn't like throwing a water balloon. You, as a civilian, should only shoot less lethal projectiles if it were a justified situation for real bullets; basically, if you find yourself in a situation to use less lethal projectiles, just use real bullets.

[50BMGBOB]

+1 If you can legally fire less lethal, then you can legally fire live ammo. You could always put in a camera like LEO or buses have but why? Those dumb tugs where already video taping it. Do you think if you where video taping it that they would stop? If you call 911 on a cell phone, they record it. It is not video, but the audio can be used in court. If they police recover a tape with the body's, then that can be used in court as well.

It sucks that exercising a right as basic as self defense will land you in court where your fate is decided by a jury based on laws that are commonly unjust. I worry about the civil more than the criminal case. All they have to do their is convinse Half the jury that Johnny Dirtbag was a saint and didn't need to die and you lose. Heck, even if you don't the time and money it takes you lose anyways. Still we have to stand up for our rights.

[DrjonesUSA]

Less lethals are a very bad idea for civilians for a myriad of reasons.

Leave those to the cops and shoot lead through your guns.

And only shoot when you believe your life is in danger.

[magmaster]

Buy a can of pepper spray and start hosing them down. They will stop beating on your car in a hurry

[homerm14]

The proper term now is "Less Lethal" not "Less than lethal" because these less lethal items have the potential to kill (and have killed).
Shooting those things (beanbags, rubber projectiles, etc) is serious and isn't like throwing a water balloon. You, as a civilian, should only shoot less lethal projectiles if it were a justified situation for real bullets; basically, if you find yourself in a situation to use less lethal projectiles, just use real bullets.

I agree 100%. Besides I was always trained to only use less lethal with a cover Officer. Bean bag rounds do'nt always have the affect that you want.

[socalguns]

I've heard rubber/plastic 12 guage pellets are lethal at point blank range.

http://www.calacep.org/lifeline/displaylifeline.html?ID=135

fast expanding gasses are lethal at point blank range

[ohsmily]

I've heard rubber/plastic 12 guage pellets are lethal at point blank range.

http://www.calacep.org/lifeline/displaylifeline.html?ID=135

They can be lethal at longer ranges too. It depends on where you get hit. But they can definitely kill.

And the above poster correctly points out that just the expanding gasses from firing a blank can kill you at range 0m so obviously less lethal stuff, when fired at point blank will have the velocity and force to cause some serious damage and probably kill (they aren't intended to be fired at point blank).

[Maddog5150]

The whole "I didnt mean to" defense wouldnt work. In my law enforcement classes, the instructor always warned us that if you pull a gun, you have to be prepared to STOP the oppenents. The instructor also said that using less lethal or shooting to wound, deter will almost always end you up on a losing lawsuit in California. You will probobly get some liberal anti gun prosecutor turning the situation around on you, "You were using an device that was meant for lethal force in a non lethal manner?" All that was what my instructor told me. I wouldnt recomend less lethal force considering we live in a state where there can be a lawsuit for ANYTHING. My instructor told me it is easier in court to admit you were trying to stop the suspect in self defence and were aiming to kill.

[mblat]

G.d save me from necessity to ever point gun at anybody. I really pray that I NEVER will have to pull a trigger while aiming at a person.
That’s said, if it comes to it I want to have as lethal of a projectile as I can possibly get. I am not about to wind up in situation when I have robber bullets and somebody else throwing lead at me….

[rod]

I want all my ammo to be lethal. If I pull a gun and pull the trigger, it's because my life is in danger. Less lethal ammo just won't work for me.

Pepper spray is pretty cool though for less lethal situations. I keep a couple cans in my car for punks.

Judge: Why did you shoot that gang-banger 10 times?
Me: Because that's all the bullets California will let me load at a time.

[ajwells]

The whole "I didnt mean to" defense wouldnt work. In my law enforcement classes, the instructor always warned us that if you pull a gun, you have to be prepared to STOP the oppenents. The instructor also said that using less lethal or shooting to wound, deter will almost always end you up on a losing lawsuit in California. You will probobly get some liberal anti gun prosecutor turning the situation around on you, "You were using an device that was meant for lethal force in a non lethal manner?" All that was what my instructor told me. I wouldnt recomend less lethal force considering we live in a state where there can be a lawsuit for ANYTHING. My instructor told me it is easier in court to admit you were trying to stop the suspect in self defence and were aiming to kill.

I spoke to a couple LEO's in a gun shop once about shooting to wound. They told me basically if you shoot someone (in this case we're talking about someone breaking into your house) that you need to make sure to kill him. If you only wound him, you'll end up in jail yourself most likely.