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mike_the_wino
10-30-2010, 3:58 PM
Okay, asking for the wisdom of the forum on this one. First, pic. SA85 on top:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_0995.jpg

I bought a Yugo Hungarian SA85 back in the day. The Bulgarian milled was bought around '94 from Century Arms, never fired it. Since these are both registered with the State I would like to un-neuter them. Ironwood (http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/IWDsite/IWDHome.html) makes replacement furniture and there are soooooo many choices, which one is most 'correct'? I am leaning towards making the Yugo a 'blond'. Beechwood? But the Bulgarian is getting the full on Commie treatment; laminate and stained Comrade Red. Maple, maybe?

Also going to slap on slant muzzle brakes both with bayo lugs. Four parts to the furniture, US made, and slant brake US as well, natch. 922r compliant, yes?

amd64
10-30-2010, 4:07 PM
The SA-85M is Hungarian (KBI/FEG).

The Bulgarian is an Arsenal SA-93.

The SA-85M will accept any European pattern furniture, but Ironwood probably has remakes of the Hungarian furniture.

The SA-93 doesn't have a bottom tang, although some SA-93's might have the slot cut for it. Ironwood makes a buttstock with a top tang slot and a bolt-through that attaches to the inside of the receiver to substitute for the missing bottom tang.

mike_the_wino
10-30-2010, 4:13 PM
amd64, you are most correct. Here's receivers. Again, Yugo Hungarian on top:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_1011.jpg

Should I look to have the pistol grip nut plate (or whatever it's called) riveted in? If I can find such an item of course.

slomofo
10-30-2010, 5:37 PM
The SA-85M is Hungarian (KBI/FEG).

The Bulgarian is an Arsenal SA-93.

The SA-85M will accept any European pattern furniture, but Ironwood probably has remakes of the Hungarian furniture.

The SA-93 doesn't have a bottom tang, although some SA-93's might have the slot cut for it. Ironwood makes a buttstock with a top tang slot and a bolt-through that attaches to the inside of the receiver to substitute for the missing bottom tang.

Hungarian lower handguards are proprietary and others won't fit unless you change the handguard retainer to accept them.

Other than that, you're correct.

mike_the_wino
10-30-2010, 5:52 PM
Well, to put the bayo lug gas block, gotta pull the old one and then its's just a couple of bucks to get a new handguard retainer.

!@#$
10-30-2010, 6:04 PM
the furniture will count as 3 parts. the top and lower handguard are counted as one.

with a muzzle device you will need a total of 6 usa made parts.

you can use usa made mags/mag parts or a usa made FCG.

i would just buy a tapco G2 FCG.

nice rifles.

!@#$
10-30-2010, 6:05 PM
Hungarian lower handguards are proprietary and others won't fit unless you change the handguard retainer to accept them.

Other than that, you're correct.

you just need to notch the front of the handguard. no need for a new retainer.

Kerplow
10-30-2010, 6:25 PM
those stocks actually look kinda nice. are they uncomfortable to shoot? add too much weight?

mike_the_wino
10-30-2010, 6:52 PM
The Bulgarian is a bit skinner where the pistol grip part is, so it feels better but it's still a thumbhole.

google 'toilet seat thumbhole stock' and look at the images.

slomofo
10-30-2010, 6:53 PM
you just need to notch the front of the handguard. no need for a new retainer.


I decided to browse arfcom for no apparent reason and by coincidence, this same thread came up.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=131948

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/MakarovshooterinAZ/100_1572.jpg?t=1288042197

mike_the_wino
10-30-2010, 7:04 PM
Yeah, that's my thread. I was kicking around different ideas with those guys. At one point I was considering taking my KBI to underfolder but I can't cut up the ole girl like that. Kicked it back over here for the CA legal question.

!@#$
10-30-2010, 7:41 PM
I decided to browse arfcom for no apparent reason and by coincidence, this same thread came up.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=131948

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/MakarovshooterinAZ/100_1572.jpg?t=1288042197

yes just notch the handguard right where the retainer hits.

i have 3 of them i know it works.

slomofo
10-30-2010, 9:03 PM
yes just notch the handguard right where the retainer hits.

i have 3 of them i know it works.

Sorry, I thought you meant notch the handguards because of the two little dimples on the sides of the handguard retainer. I suppose if you said to trim the handguards rather than notch, I would've understood you better.

X-NewYawker
10-30-2010, 9:29 PM
I just have to ask, because your phrasing makes me wonder -- were these guns REGISTERED with the DOJ separately from just being purchased as Registered Assault Weapons, or do you mean they were legal when you bought them, and "registered" them at the gun store. Forgive me if the question insults you, it's not clear.

mike_the_wino
10-30-2010, 10:13 PM
X-NewYawker, no insult taken. These firearms were purchased in their present condition, as that was the only legal configuration at that time (early 90's). When the CA DoJ declared these guns as 'Assault Weapons', I registered them with the State. My understanding is that since these are weapons are RAW, I can un-neuter them and take back to their original configuration (pistol grip, stock, bayo lug and slant brake). If that is not the case please let me know.

bwiese
10-30-2010, 10:25 PM
X-NewYawker, no insult taken. These firearms were purchased in their present condition, as that was the only legal configuration at that time (early 90's). When the CA DoJ declared these guns as 'Assault Weapons', I registered them with the State. My understanding is that since these are weapons are RAW, I can un-neuter them and take back to their original configuration (pistol grip, stock, bayo lug and slant brake). If that is not the case please let me know.


You're fine per CALIFORNIA law doing this: once you're 'evil' in AW status, there's no further 'levels' of AW status.

But even though the 94 Fed AW ban expired, there is a FEDERAL law applicable: USC 922(r) which controls 'domestic parts content' and importability of 'sporting rifles'.

Regardless of current CA or expired Federal AW laws, your gun would not have been importable on a Federal basis way-back-then without the thumbhole stock (that's why it was there). Broadly, you cannot make a "nonsporting gun" from foreign parts that's not importable. The gun in effect becomes a "US gun" and is exempt from these concerns if it is tweaked out with 10 or less key foreign parts, which are specified 27 CFR 478.39. So this is why there is a market for "US compliance conversion parts" or "922r parts".

So to put regular stocks on to your rifle, you need to bring the key foreign parts count down from 15 or 16?? (I forget what AKs have) down to 10 or less.

For your gun, replacing 6 of these
- buttstock
- handguard
- pistol grip
- hammer
- trigger
- sear


with US-mfgd parts will get you in compliance. Relying on US parts on the magazine is a cheap way out but then doesn't let you borrow a friend's magazines (regardless of capacity).

mike_the_wino
10-30-2010, 11:07 PM
bwiese, I used this calculator (http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance) and it looks like a US trigger and gas piston make me a solid citizen if change the furniture.

amd64
10-31-2010, 7:11 AM
Should I look to have the pistol grip nut plate (or whatever it's called) riveted in? If I can find such an item of course.

If you're referring to the missing lower/bottom tang on the SA-93, here's a thread that discusses it, with sources:

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2923

Thread topic is re: a SLR-95, but relevant to SA-93's re: the lower tang.

It would be easier to use the Ironwood solution for it (bolt through stock into receiver end), but installing a lower tang would make it more "correct".

amd64
10-31-2010, 7:12 AM
yes just notch the handguard right where the retainer hits.


+1. A few seconds with a dremel sander will fit the handguard into the SA-85M retainer.