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WWII collector
10-30-2010, 9:54 AM
I will be going to the largest gun show in America in a couple of weeks in Tulsa, Oklahoma the Wanenmacher's. I have been told by several people that almost anything that was ever made for WWII will be there. My question, what should I expect to pay for a repo K98 sniper rifle or a original one. I plan on coming home with one.

Thanks in advance.

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 10:06 AM
I don't know if this allowed or is kosher to critique someone else's rifle, but I found this K98 on the web and just want to know if this is the price I will have to pay for a rifle in this condition. If this is not allowed, I will delete this post.

Thanks.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=197584022

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=196237813

jamesob
10-30-2010, 10:08 AM
how much is it?

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 10:19 AM
The price is on the web page, asking 3k.

Peter.Steele
10-30-2010, 10:22 AM
That's a starting point, yeah, if you want something nice.

You can put something together yourself from parts, have a mix of repro and original, for less. It'll still be minimum a thousand or so. You're not getting a K98 sniper for cheap money. Ever.

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 10:28 AM
That's a starting point, yeah, if you want something nice.

You can put something together yourself from parts, have a mix of repro and original, for less. It'll still be minimum a thousand or so. You're not getting a K98 sniper for cheap money. Ever.

I don't know if one of you guys put this together, but man somebody put a lot of time and effort to educate guys like me, great.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=196237864

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 10:36 AM
That's a starting point, yeah, if you want something nice.

You can put something together yourself from parts, have a mix of repro and original, for less. It'll still be minimum a thousand or so. You're not getting a K98 sniper for cheap money. Ever.

Or a m1941 Johnson, as I found out........:(

smeg
10-30-2010, 10:42 AM
in my opinion, the zf41 is not original. the others are reproductions as stated. also in my opinion all of those you listed are not worth anywhere close to the ridiculous high asking prices.
k98 snipers are a minefield. rule of thumb is any k98 sniper is a fake until proven otherwise. many a fake k98 sniper have been produced that have conned many a thousands of dollars from unwitting buyers. i consider myself a original k98 collector purist and i stay away from snipers entirely. true original k98 snipers are $7-$10++...and even one that several k98 'experts' say are real,,,not too uncommonly are later discovered to be fake. some of the fakers had made some really convincing examples that can fool.(that zf41 btw, aint one of them)
best bet is make are get a known repro and pay a reasonable price for it. reasonable price? maybe $900-$1500.
my $0.02

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 11:31 AM
in my opinion, the zf41 is not original. the others are reproductions as stated. also in my opinion all of those you listed are not worth anywhere close to the ridiculous high asking prices.
k98 snipers are a minefield. rule of thumb is any k98 sniper is a fake until proven otherwise. many a fake k98 sniper have been produced that have conned many a thousands of dollars from unwitting buyers. i consider myself a original k98 collector purist and i stay away from snipers entirely. true original k98 snipers are $7-$10++...and even one that several k98 'experts' say are real,,,not too uncommonly are later discovered to be fake. some of the fakers had made some really convincing examples that can fool.(that zf41 btw, aint one of them)
best bet is make are get a known repro and pay a reasonable price for it. reasonable price? maybe $900-$1500.
my $0.02

Where do you find these reasonable price rifles, I've never seen one. ?

smeg
10-30-2010, 11:46 AM
a year or two ago, there was a good amount of interest in making repro k98 snipers. this may have been partly due to a few vendors that made and sold repro LSR snipers from RC's and repro scopes that were available. the vendors sold them for about $1000 -$1200 or so if i remember correctly. more than a few guys were building the snipers and talking about them on the various forums.
that little fad seemed to have waned some. and in the past year, some of these builds, both by private guys or ones sold by the vendors, have since been offered for sale on various forums such as gunboards and surplusrifle, etc as well as auctions sites such as gbroker. asking prices i've seen have been between $900-$1200. i would think that a WTB ad on these forums will get offers as well.
now not all builds are the same and i can't say which ones are good shooters and which are not.
i feel into that fad too and personally i think i have the best LSR repro ever made:laugh:

Milsurp Collector
10-30-2010, 12:15 PM
The following comments are general in nature and are not directed at WWII collector or any individual.

There are a lot of faked-up rifles in the K98k market, and we have seen one in this forum recently. The Gunboards forum has a thread of nothing but faked-up rifles that have been auctioned on Gunbroker http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?42088-Turd-Alerts

While faked-up regular K98k rifles are a problem, it is really a problem with K98k sniper rifles. Because real K98k rifles are rare and cost many thousands of dollars, there is a lot of incentive for the crooks and con men to put together a K98k sniper and some BS story to take advantage of people with big bank accounts but little knowledge of K98k sniper rifles. Especially at a big gun show, they are counting on their BS story ("picked this up from the widow of a vet who brought it back from the war. She hates guns and just wanted to get rid of it, blah blah") and "the fever" hitting the buyer so he lays down a lot of cash for something fake. After the victim walks away from their table with the overpriced fake the seller pockets the money and laughs his *** off. Who in their right mind would want to be the victim of someone like that?

So, in short, the K98k sniper market is a minefield. People who go into it with a lot of money but with no knowledge about K98k snipers are like lambs to the slaughter.

As examples, WWII collector linked to two auctions. One is for a "mauser k98 sniper rifle SWP 1945 LSR" (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=196237813) that at least is openly advertised as a repro. The asking price is $2700. Well, if you are going to make a repro and ask $2700 for it, it should at least be semi-authentic, in my opinion. There were no swp45 LSR snipers - or any swp45 snipers - made originally. Most LSR snipers were made by Gustloff (bcd) and had a special thick left receiver sidewall to maintain strength when the receiver sidewall was machined flat and drilled to take the scope mount. This guy lucked into a real one, without the scope and mount but still a real LSR sniper rifle, for less than $1000 at an estate sale. You can see the thick left receiver sidewall, and the special buttplate and safety http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?167651-Just-bought-a-salty-old-K98...Lotsa-pics

In my opinion $2700 is way too much for a repro that isn't even close to being realistic. I assume that people are interested in World War II weapons because of the history associated with them, so why spend so much money on something that is so fake and "non-historic"? If someone wants a K98k with a scope, just buy a cheap RC K98k, a scope and a mount, and have at it. You'll have something just as functional and "real" as that $2700 repro, for a fraction of the price. Use the money you save to buy other guns.

The other link is for a "Mauser K98 98 K ar all matching w/ original ZF41" (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=197584022) with a starting price of $2,995 and a Buy it Now of $3,500.

First of all, the Zf41 was not really a sniper rifle. It was meant to be used by a "designated marksman". It has a 1.5x power scope that is not powerful enough for sniping. So if someone wants a "K98k sniper rifle", a Zf41 ain't exactly it.

Second, a Zf41 is one of the easiest and most commonly faked "K98k sniper rifles". Numrich sells everything you need to make your very own Zf41 http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=1047070&catid=11949 and many are out there.

There is a funny thread showing a Zf41 faker getting caught in the act. He tried to pass it off with some BS story ("Kansas piece...from a vet there..."). When it was pointed out that the finish wear on the scope mount and rifle didn't match he came up with more BS ("The man was on a farm in Kansas.. He took the rifle and shot it many times there from what the folks told me..... The scope and mount from what I was told ..were put back on the rifle after his passing.. So...the rifle was used a whole lot more than the scope and mount.. after 50 years - you tend to wear a bit around the edges...").

Well, as it turns out, another forum member had pictures of the very same rifle from several months earlier, and it had no Zf41 mount or scope at that time. Busted! Read the thread, it is both amusing and educational http://gk43forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4185

So, before anyone interested in a K98k - any K98k, but especially a sniper - runs out and buys one, what's the rush? Is the money burning a hole in your pocket? Did your doctor tell you that you have only six months to live and you want to shoot a K98k sniper rifle before you die? Do your homework. Buy books - and read them - before you buy the rifle. It will be money well-spent. That advice applies to everyone and to every type of "collectible" firearm. Buy books and do your homework first before spending your hard-earned money on collectible firearms, or you risk getting hoodwinked, cheated, burned, and taken advantage of.

If someone has a lot of money but doesn't have the patience or interest to learn about K98k sniper rifles but wants one anyway, don't go to a big gun show, you'll get taken there. Go to http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?6-The-K98-Mauser-Forum and http://www.k98kforum.com/ and hang out there. Figure out who the knowledgeable collectors are there and send them private messages telling them what you are interested in and your price range. They will likely be able to get you in touch with someone who has something real to sell. It won't be a bargain but it will be real and a fair price. It will be something of real value that you can pass on to your kids and grandkids, not some overpriced fake. ;)

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 12:28 PM
The following comments are general in nature and are not directed at WWII collector or any individual.

There are a lot of faked-up rifles in the K98k market, and we have seen one in this forum recently. The Gunboards forum has a thread of nothing but faked-up rifles that have been auctioned on Gunbroker http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?42088-Turd-Alerts

While faked-up regular K98k rifles are a problem, it is really a problem with K98k sniper rifles. Because real K98k rifles are rare and cost many thousands of dollars, there is a lot of incentive for the crooks and con men to put together a K98k sniper and some BS story to take advantage of people with big bank accounts but little knowledge of K98k sniper rifles. Especially at a big gun show, they are counting on their BS story ("picked this up from the widow of a vet who brought it back from the war. She hates guns and just wanted to get rid of it, blah blah") and "the fever" hitting the buyer so he lays down a lot of cash for something fake. After the victim walks away from their table with the overpriced fake the seller pockets the money and laughs his *** off. Who in their right mind would want to be the victim of someone like that?

So, in short, the K98k sniper market is a minefield. People who go into it with a lot of money but with no knowledge about K98k snipers are like lambs to the slaughter.

As examples, WWII collector linked to two auctions. One is for a "mauser k98 sniper rifle SWP 1945 LSR" (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=196237813) that at least is openly advertised as a repro. The asking price is $2700. Well, if you are going to make a repro and ask $2700 for it, it should at least be semi-authentic, in my opinion. There were no swp45 LSR snipers - or any swp45 snipers - made originally. Most LSR snipers were made by Gustloff (bcd) and had a special thick left receiver sidewall to maintain strength when the receiver sidewall was machined flat and drilled to take the scope mount. This guy lucked into a real one, without the scope and mount but still a real LSR sniper rifle, for less than $1000 at an estate sale. You can see the thick left receiver sidewall, and the special buttplate and safety http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?167651-Just-bought-a-salty-old-K98...Lotsa-pics

In my opinion $2700 is way too much for a repro that isn't even close to being realistic. I assume that people are interested in World War II weapons because of the history associated with them, so why spend so much money on something that is so fake and "non-historic"? If someone wants a K98k with a scope, just buy a cheap RC K98k, a scope and a mount, and have at it. You'll have something just as functional and "real" as that $2700 repro, for a fraction of the price. Use the money you save to buy other guns.

The other link is for a "Mauser K98 98 K ar all matching w/ original ZF41" (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=197584022) with a starting price of $2,995 and a Buy it Now of $3,500.

First of all, the Zf41 was not really a sniper rifle. It was meant to be used by a "designated marksman". It has a 1.5x power scope that is not powerful enough for sniping. So if someone wants a "K98k sniper rifle", a Zf41 ain't exactly it.

Second, a Zf41 is one of the easiest and most commonly faked "K98k sniper rifles". Numrich sells everything you need to make your very own Zf41 http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=1047070&catid=11949 and many are out there.

There is a funny thread showing a Zf41 faker getting caught in the act. He tried to pass it off with some BS story ("Kansas piece...from a vet there..."). When it was pointed out that the finish wear on the scope mount and rifle didn't match he came up with more BS ("The man was on a farm in Kansas.. He took the rifle and shot it many times there from what the folks told me..... The scope and mount from what I was told ..were put back on the rifle after his passing.. So...the rifle was used a whole lot more than the scope and mount.. after 50 years - you tend to wear a bit around the edges...").

Well, as it turns out, another forum member had pictures of the very same rifle from several years earlier, and it had no Zf41 mount or scope at that time. Busted! Read the thread, it is both amusing and educational http://gk43forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4185

So, before anyone interested in a K98k - any K98k, but especially a sniper - runs out and buys one, what's the rush? Is the money burning a hole in your pocket? Did your doctor tell you that you have only six months to live and you want to shoot a K98k sniper rifle before you die? Do your homework. Buy books - and read them - before you buy the rifle. It will be money well-spent. That advice applies to everyone and to every type of "collectible" firearm. Buy books and do your homework first before spending your hard-earned money on collectible firearms, or you risk getting hoodwinked, cheated, burned, and taken advantage of.

If someone has a lot of money but doesn't have the patience or interest to learn about K98k sniper rifles but wants one anyway, don't go to a big gun show, you'll get taken there. Go to http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?6-The-K98-Mauser-Forum and http://www.k98kforum.com/ and hang out there. Figure out who the knowledgeable collectors are there and send them private messages telling them what you are interested in and your price range. They will likely be able to get you in touch with someone who has something real to sell. It won't be a bargain but it will be real and a fair price. It will be something of real value that you can pass on to your kids and grandkids, not some overpriced fake. ;)

Thanks for the heads up, but you didn't answer my question directly I don't think, should I go ahead and repo mine ?

Milsurp Collector
10-30-2010, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the heads up, but you didn't answer my question directly I don't think, should I go ahead and repo mine ?

I believe the question you refer to is in a different thread of yours. I believe I tried to answer the question you asked in this thread. ;)

I will be going to the largest gun show in America in a couple of weeks in Tulsa, Oklahoma the Wanenmacher's. I have been told by several people that almost anything that was ever made for WWII will be there. My question, what should I expect to pay for a repo K98 sniper rifle or a original one. I plan on coming home with one.

Thanks in advance.

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 12:54 PM
I believe the question you refer to is in a different thread of yours. I believe I tried to answer the question you asked in this thread. ;)

Sorry you're right, I get lost a lot of the time, senior, ya know...:rolleyes:

I was referring to the K98 in this thread, since it is not original, would this be a candidate to repo, if so which scope should I use.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=357419

only10x
10-30-2010, 1:12 PM
whats up / wrong with the famous 'Michells Mausers' ?
they openly claim to be legit, untouched and so forth.

Milsurp Collector
10-30-2010, 1:19 PM
Sorry you're right, I get lost a lot of the time, senior, ya know...:rolleyes:

I was referring to the K98 in this thread, since it is not original, would this be a candidate to repo, if so which scope should I use.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=357419

If you wanted to make a repro sniper from that the most appropriate mounts would be a short side rail (SSR) or low turret. You can get them at http://home.comcast.net/~yzhu/accumount/class1/German/German.htm

You can buy a repro scope on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ZF39-Sniper-Scope-JENA-ZIELVIER-German-Army-/200442859173?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eab534ea5

Add up the cost of the mount, scope, sniper safety, and gunsmith charges and decide if that is the way you want to go.

WWII collector
10-30-2010, 1:26 PM
If you wanted to make a repro sniper from that the most appropriate mounts would be a short side rail (SSR) or low turret. You can get them at http://home.comcast.net/~yzhu/accumount/class1/German/German.htm

You can buy a repro scope on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ZF39-Sniper-Scope-JENA-ZIELVIER-German-Army-/200442859173?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eab534ea5

Add up the cost of the mount, scope, sniper safety, and gunsmith charges and decide if that is the way you want to go.

Thanks again for your time.

Milsurp Collector
10-30-2010, 1:29 PM
whats up / wrong with the famous 'Michells Mausers' ?
they openly claim to be legit, untouched and so forth.

Search http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?6-The-K98-Mauser-Forum for Mitchell's Mausers and you will find it is a topic that has been covered many times. Basically they take Russian Capture K98ks, sand the hell out of the stock, polish the bolt to a non-authentic bare metal "in the white" shine, and stamp new fake "matching numbers" on them. They then advertise them in every gun magazine you see and sell them mostly to guys who don't really understand what they are buying. They are essentially expensive "pimp shined" Russian Capture K98k's. You do get a bunch of Yugoslavian surplus items and a "Certificate of Authenticity" included with the price of the rifle. :rolleyes:

Haggar85
10-30-2010, 1:45 PM
just know the difference between a mitchell's mauser and a real one.

cruddymutt
10-30-2010, 5:29 PM
Just for some hard numbers for you guys thinking about building a K98 replica sniper. I built a LSR (long side rail) maybe 3 months ago. Total cost was $1100ish and I did the work myself. I used a very accurate 1944 RC as a base. Mine cost a bit more than it should because my RC had no late war stamped parts so I had to get them. I also used a DRP marked Marburg scope I got from a fellow board member. I know its fake, if it ever gets sold anyone who knows anything about LSR snipers will know its fake but it looks great. Shoots awesome and is one of my favorite rifles. Warning as they are addictive. I really want to build another just cant decide what to build.

emcon5
10-30-2010, 11:02 PM
whats up / wrong with the famous 'Michells Mausers' ?
they openly claim to be legit, untouched and so forth.

Well, I can openly claim not only to be the Pope, but also married to Jessica Alba.

All the claims are equally accurate. ;)

rojocorsa
10-31-2010, 12:03 AM
Not to mention that some MMs supposedly have the Russian Capture "X" altered with another diagonal line to make it look like an Asterisk (*).

That is nothing but dishonest.