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CorsicanRedneck
10-30-2010, 9:19 AM
I just can't believe how many people on Calguns are voting for anti-gun liberals in all of these posts! I even read someone trashing the NRA!? :rolleyes:

I know that most Californians are anti-gun, but here's my list of the "lesser of two evils" of people less likely to attack gun owners and the 2nd Amendment:

Governor:
I'd like to vote for Chelene Nightingale, whom most people don't even talk about on here. She's pro-gun and a gun owner. She hits the range once in a while. Unfortunately, the race is really between Brown and Whitman. Don't like any of them, but I'd go against Brown (I still can't believe that some gun owners would vote for him!)

Lt Gov.: Abel Maldonado

Sec. of State: Damon Dunn

Controller: Tony Strickland

Treasurer: Mimi Walters

Attorney Gen.: Steve Cooley

US Senate: Carly Fiorina

US Representative (my district, 49th): Darrel Issa

State Senator (my district, 38th): Mark Wyland

State assembly (my district, 74th): Martin Garrick

Judicial Supreme Court and Court of Appeal: NO to all. The only less liberal justice on here would be Tani Cantil Sakauye. But she's still liberal on all social issues, including guns. The second less liberal Justice, Ming Chin, believes of full immunity for judges who legislate from the bench, overturn the will of the people and can never be fired for crazy decisions.

IWc
10-31-2010, 1:17 AM
2010 mid-term elections and Calguns

I just can't believe how many people on Calguns are voting for anti-gun liberals in all of these posts! I even read someone trashing the from NRA!? :rolleyes:

I know that most Californians are anti-gun, but here's my list of the "lesser of two evils" of people less likely to attack gun owners and the 2nd Amendment:

Governor:
I'd like to vote for Chelene Nightingale, whom most people don't even talk about on here. She's pro-gun and a gun owner. She hits the range once in a while. Unfortunately, the race is really between Brown and Whitman. Don't like any of them, but I'd go against Brown (I still can't believe that some gun owners would vote for him!) A SWING VOTE! (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/governor/ca/california_governor_whitman_vs_brown-1113.html)
Lt Gov.: Abel Maldonado

Sec. of State: Damon Dunn

Controller: Tony Strickland

Treasurer: Mimi Walters

Attorney Gen.: Steve Cooley

US Senate: Carly Fiorina

US Representative (my district, 49th): Darrel Issa

State Senator (my district, 38th): Mark Wyland

State assembly (my district, 74th): Martin Garrick

Judicial Supreme Court and Court of Appeal: NO to all. The only less liberal justice on here would be Tani Cantil Sakauye. But she's still liberal on all social issues, including guns. The second less liberal Justice, Ming Chin, believes of full immunity for judges who legislate from the bench, overturn the will of the people and can never be fired for crazy decisions. False and yes we can still remove them.

Both Tani (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=324032) Cantil Sakauye (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/07/schwarzenegger-nominates-first-asian-american-lead-california-supreme-court.html) and Ming W. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=352031) Chin (http://oneoldvet.com/?p=23798) is a Republican period!

The state Commission on Judicial Nominees Evaluation, which screens all of the state’s judges for governors, gave them its highest rating, and gushed in a letter that he/she is “held in the highest esteem throughout the state” and brings “joyful enthusiasm” to the job.

Justice Tani Cantil-Sakauye has a distinguished history of public service and understands that the role of a justice is not to create law, but to independently and fairly interpret and administer the law.

Voted NO is still will be replacement the new anti-guns judges.:(

johnthomas
10-31-2010, 1:39 AM
You have to wonder how many people joined up in the last few months just to plant a seed. I wouldn't doubt if some of these folks
don't even own guns, let alone shoot them.

bwiese
10-31-2010, 1:49 AM
I just can't believe how many people on Calguns are voting for anti-gun liberals in all of these posts! I even read someone trashing the NRA!?


I'm not voting for an antigun liberal, that's why I'm not voting for Meg Whitman ;)

For those who are not single-issue gunnies that can't vote for Brown, please vote for Chelene. At least you won't be supporting a documented antigunner, eMeg.

Also, I did not see anyone trashing the NRA in regards to this subject.

I will also say the confusion about Meg's NRA rating and the fact at one point it may have strangely been higher than Brown's is likely due to Fairfax, VA being 3000 miles away. (Alternate theory: they don't want to hurt Brown.) I do believe the home office may not be as well tuned in as the CA branch office :)

I will say that various Senior People in the CA offices of national gun politics organizations - and their lawyers - have had very useful, fruitful interactions with AG Brown, including getting him to write the amicus brief, and to helping call off DOJ's 'dogs', etc.

Please also note that the NRA's affiliate organization, the CRPA, has rated both Brown & Whitman as "FTAQ" (failed to answer questionnaire), which appears to differ from the last NRA stance I saw.

Some senior California NRA staffers/directors I know do indeed regularly & actively browse Calguns, and sometimes make public commentary and/or request help from Calgunners - or they may pop in at random to correct misstatements others have incorrectly made about NRA.

The various statements about Brown I have made have received no such correction from CA NRA staffers, public or private. And if they think I am harmful or wrong I welcome a public refutation.

Doheny
10-31-2010, 1:52 AM
/\ I knew Bill would chime in, but not at zero-dark thirty!

bwiese
10-31-2010, 2:07 AM
/\ I knew Bill would chime in, but not at zero-dark thirty!

I've been debugging some code for a new product.

Every since Lizzie passed away my clock has been skewed. When I'd be over at my place , she'd call me at midnite and tell me to go to bed. so I'd get some semblance of sleep. Now I crash on the sofa and wake up with the cats sniffing my forehead.

But it's 2AM, time for dinner at the diner. Actually, breakfast sounds good.

spddrcr
10-31-2010, 3:09 AM
I just can't believe how many people on Calguns are voting for anti-gun liberals in all of these posts! I even read someone trashing the NRA!? :rolleyes:

I know that most Californians are anti-gun, but here's my list of the "lesser of two evils" of people less likely to attack gun owners and the 2nd Amendment:

Governor:
I'd like to vote for Chelene Nightingale, whom most people don't even talk about on here. She's pro-gun and a gun owner. She hits the range once in a while. Unfortunately, the race is really between Brown and Whitman. Don't like any of them, but I'd go against Brown (I still can't believe that some gun owners would vote for him!)


I can't believe how many people are voting for anti-gun republicans and straight crazy people.:rolleyes:

HondaMasterTech
10-31-2010, 5:32 AM
Voting for a 3rd candidate who has no chance of winning is a waste of an opportunity to keep a confirmed anti-gun candidate out of office. Ignore your pride and play the game or you are only helping the opponent to win.

Skullster
10-31-2010, 7:13 AM
Voting for a 3rd candidate who has no chance of winning is a waste of an opportunity to keep a confirmed anti-gun candidate out of office. Ignore your pride and play the game or you are only helping the opponent to win.

-1 :nono::icon_bs:

I'm sorry no VOTE is a wasted opportunity. Ignore your pride and play the game? Please people don't believe that lie anymore.

I'm 50 and been voting for one or the other party all my life believing in the lesser of two evils choices I had. Well that philosophy has gotten us where exactly? In the current mess we are in now I believe.

I'm sick to death of career politicians. I can't in good conscious vote for Moonbeam or Nutmeg. And I can't in good conscious not vote or not participate in the political process that governs my affairs.

Please stop with the wasted VOTE rhetoric. Don't buy it people.

One VOTE can make a difference that's what I believe in.

HondaMasterTech
10-31-2010, 7:54 AM
Rhetoric? No. That is not the reason California has gotten to the point it is. Your state is over-run with morons. Plain and simple. When 51% of the population has their heads pulled OUT of their arses California might have a chance. Until then, you had better make your vote COUNT.

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 7:57 AM
Both Tani and Ming W. Chinis a Republican period!

The state Commission on Judicial Nominees Evaluation, which screens all of the state’s judges for governors, gave them its highest rating, and gushed in a letter that he/she is “held in the highest esteem throughout the state” and brings “joyful enthusiasm” to the job.

Justice Tani Cantil-Sakauye has a distinguished history of public service and understands that the role of a justice is not to create law, but to independently and fairly interpret and administer the law.

Voted NO is still will be replacement the new anti-guns judges.

If you do more research on them, you'll know that Cantil almost always leaned left on social issues. That's just fact. I was about to say YES when I read the endorsements, but then I saw that she did side with the left on most social issues. And in case you don't know, gun control is what they call a "social issue". And don't tell me that you're happy with what the CA courts have done with gun control the past decade!

Ming Chin published a book named "Judicial Independence: Under Attack Again? (2010)" What I stated is in there. Read it before calling me a liar! :mad:

As for the title of your reply, "I just can't believe you won't votes for all the Republican!" I will actually vote mostly REP but for Chelene. I'm not a GOP activist if that is what you implied. I'm a strong Constitution believer, but in case you missed it, most anti-gun laws were proposed and voted on by the left. I don't believe that the Brady folks get much money from the GOP...

Again, it's the lesser of 2 evils.

You have to wonder how many people joined up in the last few months just to plant a seed. I wouldn't doubt if some of these folks don't even own guns, let alone shoot them.

Boy, I personally owned guns for the past 23 years and do cast and reload. Don't even go there! :mad:

I'm not voting for an antigun liberal, that's why I'm not voting for Meg Whitman ;)

For those who are not single-issue gunnies that can't vote for Brown, please vote for Chelene. At least you won't be supporting a documented antigunner, eMeg.

That's what I'm going to do like I stated in my post.


Also, I did not see anyone trashing the NRA in regards to this subject.

I can't recall the poster, but I did read someone who said on here that the NRA endorsement for candidates was crap and only the endorsements on here were valid. Obviously not a NRA fan...


I will also say the confusion about Meg's NRA rating and the fact at one point it may have strangely been higher than Brown's is likely due to Fairfax, VA being 3000 miles away. (Alternate theory: they don't want to hurt Brown.) I do believe the home office may not be as well tuned in as the CA branch office

I will say that various Senior People in the CA offices of national gun politics organizations - and their lawyers - have had very useful, fruitful interactions with AG Brown, including getting him to write the amicus brief, and to helping call off DOJ's 'dogs', etc.

Please also note that the NRA's affiliate organization, the CRPA, has rated both Brown & Whitman as "FTAQ" (failed to answer questionnaire), which appears to differ from the last NRA stance I saw.

Some senior California NRA staffers/directors I know do indeed regularly & actively browse Calguns, and sometimes make public commentary and/or request help from Calgunners - or they may pop in at random to correct misstatements others have incorrectly made about NRA.

The various statements about Brown I have made have received no such correction from CA NRA staffers, public or private. And if they think I am harmful or wrong I welcome a public refutation.

Like I said, I don't like any of them. The bottom line is that Brown did and will side with the liberals and you can bet that he'll sign any gun control laws on his desk to keep his base. Meg, who is anti-gun as well, might veto some of the upcoming gun control laws to keep her base. Anti-gun liberals don't like her and she'll gain nothing in passing such laws while she has a lot to loose if she sign them. Am I sure of that? No. But I know what Brown will do.

I can't believe how many people are voting for anti-gun republicans and straight crazy people.:rolleyes:

Hmm... None of the people I vote for are anti-gun, unless you think that Chelene Nightingale is one of them...

Voting for a 3rd candidate who has no chance of winning is a waste of an opportunity to keep a confirmed anti-gun candidate out of office. Ignore your pride and play the game or you are only helping the opponent to win.

I'm very aware of what my vote will accomplish, or not accomplish in this case. I'm just tired of the game. I also know that neither Brown or Meg will overturn any of the anti-gun laws in CA. I don't think Meg will do anything better for us. I know that Brown will probably make things worse, hence my original post of disbelief about gun-owners cheering for Brown!

I will, in this case at least, vote my conscience. I know Chelene will not win, but it is just too painful to vote for any of the 2 anti-gun candidates.



Anyway, funny that I got slammed for not supporting so-called strong Republicans like Meg, Cantil and Chin by one of you guys, then slammed again for voting for some Republicans. You guys should get your things together!

OleCuss
10-31-2010, 8:40 AM
I also agree that voting for Chelene is not a total waste. It can at least be viewed as a protest vote. But protest votes are of little moment and are mostly wasted even if they're not entirely wasted.

At this time I think Whitman can still win. So I plan to vote for her. I've seen no credible evidence that she is anti-gun (the eBay stuff is an oversimplification at best) and I'd guess that various forces will keep her from doing us much harm.

I find it very disheartening that I've still not heard anything positively stating that the MAWP mess has not been squared away. The fact that it happened at all implies (doesn't prove) poor management on the part of Brown and the apparent lack of a definitive fix suggests that he is not going to be "vigorous" about defending either the RKBA or property rights.

No Brown vote for me - anyone who loves AB32 like he does is, IMHO, either ignorant about the relevant facts or an idiot.

If Meg appears to be fading in the next few days and is (IMO) no longer viable, I'll consider a protest vote for Dale Ogden.

383green
10-31-2010, 9:16 AM
I've seen no credible evidence that she is anti-gun

This sounds quite anti-gun to me:

-- Guns: She said she supports Second Amendment rights, but that an assault weapon ban and handgun restrictions are "probably the right thing in California." She does not own a gun. (http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-02-13/bay-area/17190174_1_sen-john-mccain-abortion-rights-budget-gap)

I've found this comment quoted all over the place, but I didn't manage to find the original interview where she stated that.

Other quotes I've heard from her on 2nd amendment questions make her sound ignorant of the issues at best, and I got the impression that she was faking her ignorance just to avoid making any meaningful answers.

I agree that we don't have much to go on since she has no history in political office so far, but based on her statements and eBay's behavior under her watch, I believe that she is anti-gun.

BluNorthern
10-31-2010, 9:24 AM
http://www.flashreport.org/blog.php?postID=2010060314081139

Meg Whitman is a Gun Control Liberal
By Sam Paredes, Executive Director of Gun Owners of California

Every day, shooters and sportsmen are growing more wary of Meg Whitman. While she's been struggling to re-assure us, there are just too many red flags. Her hostility to gun owners as CEO of eBay, her ignorance of basic gun issues, her Schwarzenegger-esque rhetoric, and her endorsement of Barbara Boxer lead me to the conclusion that she's a left-liberal on the Second Amendment.

Early in her eBay tenure, Whitman made the decision to completely ban the sale of firearms on the site.

While I respect the right of private enterprises to make business decisions about product lines, I am concerned by how nonchalantly Whitman reached this decision and talked about it later. It reveals an underlying attitude that is hostile to Second Amendment rights.

In her autobiography she describes her decision to ban guns as one of her "least difficult decisions," even though eBay users were largely opposed to the ban. She later rationalized her decision with her belief that gun owners would "cut corners" and let firearms fall into the hands of criminals.

In another passage, Whitman compares guns to drugs, hate items including swastikas, and items connected with murders. Around the same time that Whitman banned all sales of guns, she created a special "adults only" version of eBay, ramping up sales of hardcore pornography and sexual paraphernalia.

This attitude reveals Whitman's disregard for traditional American culture and liberties and a fundamental lack of respect for those of us who exercise our right to keep and bear arms. Gun-owners and sportsmen in this country take their responsibilities very seriously, and if Whitman had taken the time to meet with us she would have understood that we don't "cut corners" and we don't appreciate the fact that she bent over backwards to accommodate smut-peddlers while treating gun-owners like criminals.

Whitman's campaign appearances have solidified my impression of her ignorance when it comes to guns. Earlier this month, a voter asked Whitman whether she believed in may issue or shall issue for concealed carry permits. Even though Whitman has been campaigning for governor for more than a year, she had no idea what the questioner was talking about and had to ask what the distinction meant.

Whitman calls herself a "staunch defender" of Second Amendment rights. What staunch defender doesn't understand the difference between may issue and shall issue? While I don't expect a political newcomer to know every nuance of gun law, Whitman's failure to educate herself about even such basic issues as concealed carry means all her assurances ring hollow.

In her campaign brochures, Whitman says that Second Amendment rights "can and should be balanced with responsible gun control laws." That may sound reasonable, but it's consultant-tested rhetoric gun owners have heard before, and we know it's code for new incursions on our rights. Governor Schwarzenegger campaigned on the same rhetoric, then brought on the new gun control laws like AB 962. Former Schwarzenegger handlers now populate Whitman's campaign, but they won't fool us into giving Schwarzenegger a third term under the name of Meg Whitman.

In the 2004 California Senate election, Whitman endorsed extreme liberal Barbara Boxer and called her a "courageous leader." In that election, Boxer got a 100% rating from the Brady Campaign and a 0% rating from Gun Owners of America, our national organization. Boxer ran hard on what she called "sensible gun laws," code for stricter gun control. That's not leadership and it's not courageous. It's cowardice kowtowing to the liberal orthodoxy while trampling constitutional rights.

Meg Whitman is no friend to gun owners. Her attitude towards shooters and sportsmen seems to fall somewhere between ignorant indifference and active opposition. That's the reason why the Gun Owners of California recently endorsed her opponent Steve Poizner in the Republican gubernatorial primary. Second Amendment enthusiasts just don't believe Meg Whitman.

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 9:42 AM
BluNorthern,

I will not argue your point. It doesn't change the fact that Brown is anti-gun.

frankm
10-31-2010, 9:50 AM
Brown will win, because Meg is anti-gun. Many gunners won't vote for her. She can't win in this liberal state without the gun vote.

GOEX FFF
10-31-2010, 11:19 AM
At this time I think Whitman can still win. So I plan to vote for her. I've seen no credible evidence that she is anti-gun

Arnie was the same way during his campaign. Many thought how in the world could this Rep. firearms action hero be anti gun? There was no evidence that he was anti, but quite the contrary. Well, we've all seen the 180 he's done giving Firearm owners the shaft who supported him, his movies and his election. Whitman wont come out 100% openly in favor of ALL 2A rights in CA, because (1. She knows that will lose votes in this nanny state. Or (2. She's anti.
She'll remain silent until after (IF) she wins. Then when the laws reach her desk, she'll continue giving the shaft. If one likes what RINO Arnie has done (or not done) with 2A rights given his track record before he was elected, one can pretty well bet Whitman's current 2A track record (to me, her Ebay policy CLEARLY shows she's not in favor of the Right or sport) will follow right along the same (worse?) RINO path.

Many Rep. will be voting Dem for the first time in this Governor's election...
And I feel many Dems. will be voting Rep. for the first time too.

Just my $0.02.

1911 Fan
10-31-2010, 12:18 PM
jb will win because kali is big government and jb is about big government. The teachers in unions and most government workers at all levels will vote for jb. The large amount of people on govt cheese will vote jb.This is a welfare state and such states vote dem. mw is a threat to entitlements and govt employee compensation packages.

bwiese
10-31-2010, 12:36 PM
Brown will win, because Meg is anti-gun. Many gunners won't vote for her. She can't win in this liberal state without the gun vote.

You do not have current nor valid information

From Sportsmen for Brown (Facebook)
---------------------------------------- Brown has been a quiet yet important friend to gunrights supporters in California (and the nation). Jerry owns firearms, and moreover views the 2nd Amendment as a fundamental individual civil right.

Brown filed an amicus brief with the US Supreme Court in the landmark McDonald v. Chicago case, asserting the 2nd Amendment indeed is even applicable at the state & local levels. Brown wrote this excellent brief himself, and didn't rely on staff work - and it shows. He also prevented a dangerous antigun brief from going to the US Supreme Court in the Heller v. DC case.

AG Brown has also restrained the Calif. Dept of Justice former rogue Firearms Division from wildly asserting imaginary non-law via regulatory overkill - under prior antigun AG Bill Lockyer, politicized DOJ Firearms Division staffers harassed numerous legitimate gun owners and sportsmen over perfectly legal conduct. During the successor Brown administration, however, several troublesome staffers - including past Director Randy Rossi, the ever-egregious Special Agent Iggy Chinn, and Deputy AG Alison Merrilees - have left DOJ. (It's an open question how fast they moved before the screen door hit 'em on their rear: it appears Ross departed before he was fully pensioned, and Chinn left DOJ and took a job as a rookie SFPD cop doing field training at age 59 - you do the math.)

Since then, the Firearms Division was rightsized into a Bureau and has properly concentrated on keeping guns out of criminals' and parolees hands throguh the successful statewide Armed Prohibited Persons program - instead of trying to re0regulate trivialities regarding the shape of grips on rifles.

Brown's opponent trying to buy the upcoming CA gubernatorial race is the noted antigunner Meg Whitman. Under her past direction, eMeg's EBay & PayPal operations frequently banned auctions or payments for the even most trivial, innocuous firearms-related items - including scope mounts, grips and holsters. (We're not talking actual guns here, which by law must go thru a heavily regulated dealer - we're just talking small parts and accessories.)

Meg Whitman doesn't believe the 2nd Amendment is a 'fundamental individual right' even though the US Supreme Court has held so in both the Heller v. DC and McDonald v. Chicago cases. Instead, she believes the 2nd Amendment "can be balanced with strong gun laws" like assault weapons bans and handgun control.

Um, what part of "fundamental" don't you understand, Meg? Fundamental rights don't get a balancing test.]

Whitman says California doesn't need more gun laws "at this time" - but what about after you take office, eMeg? Are you gonna trade a veto for a vote because that's the only way you can make any headway with a legislature stacked against you?

California gunnies & sportsmen should have zero confidence in eMeg vetoing any upcoming stupid gun laws. Zero confidence in eMeg should lead to zero tolerance for eMeg!

If you're like hundreds of thousands of other California sportsmen who vote "gun rights first", you'll not be voting for eMeg - and should consider the quietly pro-gun Jerry Brown. You won't see him parading around open-carrying musket and an NRA flag, but the history of results are what counts. Gunnies also have a chance to be relevant by having their votes be significant in a tight race.

There's' probably a few matters some may or may not disagree with Jerry Brown on, but many CA gunnies are comfortable with his stance on the 2nd Amendment being a fundamental right - and we'll take a man who's publicly treated the subject with directness, integrity and consistency for several decades over anyone who voices "tough gun laws ... and handgun control are appropriate". Aside from that, Meg's campaign staff fraudulently used NRA paraphernalia to try to attract the uninformed gunnie vote - talk about trying to play both sides!

Let's block another 4 or 8 years of bad gun legislation so we can continue the path of letting the courts solidify our gun rights in CA. If the LCAV/Bradys don't like him (you don't see an endorsement this election cycle, do you?), it's a damned good indication he's done lots to displease them. * * * * * *

Civil rights & gun lawyer Don Kates on Brown, from Dave Hardy's "Arms And The Law"

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2010/03/don_kates_on_th_1.php

"I have been asked to comment on the up-coming California gubernatorial election: Of the Republican candidate, an immensely
wealthy woman named Meg Whitman, I know nothing except that she is the former Chief Executive Officer of eBay and that she
is alleged to be anti-gun by some people who claim to know and that the allegation is not surprising to anyone.

SPECIFICS: Whitman has no interest in meeting with gun groups to solicit their support; Whitman has supported Barbara Boxer;
Whitman supports "environmental" lawsuits that are anti-hunting but makes no attempt to gain the aid of gun groups on environ-
mental issues. In contrast, I do know Jerry Brown. We went to law school together though we were not big buddies. And when I
contacted him about supporting the pro-Second Amendment position in the McDonald case, he filed an influential pro-Second
Amendment brief with the US Supreme Court. I know that he personally made the decision to do this, overruling his staff; and
he wrote the brief himself. (He is an able lawyer.) When he was assailed by anti-gun forces, his response was that the Second
Amendment is a "civil rights issue."

* * * * * *

Gun Opponents Up In Arms as Jerry Brown Aids NRA

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-11-23/bay-area/17182106_1_jerry-brown-gun-violence-prevention-high-court

(excerpts....) It may come as a surprise to many of his Democratic supporters, but Attorney General and gubernatorial hopeful
Jerry Brown has gone to bat for the National Rifle Association....

In July, before the court agreed to take the case, Brown went so far as to file his own friend-of-the-court brief asking
that Chicago's gun ban be overturned - arguing that if the court doesn't act, "California citizens could be deprived of
the constitutional right to possess handguns in their homes." ....

His stance has angered a number of gun control proponents.

Julie Leftwich, legal director of Legal Community Against Violence, said this isn't simply about Brown defending the
Second Amendment - it also marks a dramatic turnabout from the administration of his Democratic predecessor, Bill
Lockyer, a staunch gun control advocate.

"Jerry Brown hasn't shown leadership in the legislative arena related to the issue of gun violence prevention ... and he
hasn't sponsored or weighed in on any significant gun bills," Leftwich told The Chronicle's Carla Marinucci.

Brown's pro-gun stand has also left some San Francisco officials scratching their heads. They're awaiting a ruling in the
Chicago case to see how it might affect two local gun-rights lawsuits.

The NRA's cause: urging the U.S. Supreme Court to guarantee the ability of gun owners across the land to keep and bear
arms...

In July, before the court agreed to take the case, Brown went so far as to file his own friend-of-the-court brief asking that
Chicago's gun ban be overturned - arguing that if the court doesn't act, "California citizens could be deprived of the
constitutional right to possess handguns in their homes." ....

Brown's pro-gun stand has also left some San Francisco officials scratching their heads. They're awaiting a ruling in the
Chicago case to see how it might affect two local gun-rights lawsuits.
* * * * * * *
Law.com: "With 9th Circuit Set to Hear Firearms Case En Banc, Calif. AG Walks Line on Gun Control"


http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202433974688&With_th_Circuit_Set_to_Hear_Firearms_Case_En_Banc_ Calif_AG_Walks_Line_on_Gun_Control
....But in another case across the country, involving the same issue, Brown filed an amicus that has gun control advocates shaking their heads.

After the 7th US Circuit Court of Appeals that the Second Amendment didn't apply to state or local governments -- and therefore upheld a
local handgun ordinance -- Brown joined those asking the U.S. Supreme Court to review the ruling.

.... but didn't surprise -- Juliet Leftwich, the legal director of Legal Communities Against Violence in San Francisco.

"He just stands in stark contrast to Bill Lockyer, who was an active leader in this area," she said.

According to Leftwich, Brown hasn't co-sponsored any firearms-related legislation or fought gun rights groups as hard as the previous
administration. "There's been a sea change under Jerry Brown," she said.

Chief Deputy Attorney General James Humes said the Justice Department does plenty to stanch the scourge of guns but simply believes
in different approaches to the problem.

"I would say Jerry Brown is much more interested in law enforcement than legislation," said Humes.

Under Brown's leadership, Humes said the department has seized 1,194 firearms and arrested 87 individuals on California's list of those
prohibited from carrying firearms.

As for the attorney general's position in the 7th Circuit case, Humes calls it a "common-sense" approach. "The Second Amendment exists,
and it will exist whether we like it or not," he said....

When it comes to the politics, San Francisco political analyst David Latterman says that while Brown's stance may not help in a Democratic
primary, older or rural voters could be sympathetic.

"It doesn't help Jerry Brown politically among Democrats, but it doesn't crush him either," he said.....
* * * * * * *

Sgt Raven
10-31-2010, 12:45 PM
BluNorthern,

I will not argue your point. It doesn't change the fact that Brown is anti-gun.

Prove it. JB has held two executive positions, Governor and Mayor, what anti-gun laws did he sign? :TFH:

Bizcuits
10-31-2010, 12:52 PM
BluNorthern,

I will not argue your point. It doesn't change the fact that Brown is anti-gun.


Is that why he supported Heller?

KylaGWolf
10-31-2010, 5:53 PM
I just can't believe how many people on Calguns are voting for anti-gun liberals in all of these posts! I even read someone trashing the NRA!? :rolleyes:

I know that most Californians are anti-gun, but here's my list of the "lesser of two evils" of people less likely to attack gun owners and the 2nd Amendment:

Governor:
I'd like to vote for Chelene Nightingale, whom most people don't even talk about on here. She's pro-gun and a gun owner. She hits the range once in a while. Unfortunately, the race is really between Brown and Whitman. Don't like any of them, but I'd go against Brown (I still can't believe that some gun owners would vote for him!)

Lt Gov.: Abel Maldonado

Sec. of State: Damon Dunn

Controller: Tony Strickland

Treasurer: Mimi Walters

Attorney Gen.: Steve Cooley

US Senate: Carly Fiorina

US Representative (my district, 49th): Darrel Issa

State Senator (my district, 38th): Mark Wyland

State assembly (my district, 74th): Martin Garrick

Judicial Supreme Court and Court of Appeal: NO to all. The only less liberal justice on here would be Tani Cantil Sakauye. But she's still liberal on all social issues, including guns. The second less liberal Justice, Ming Chin, believes of full immunity for judges who legislate from the bench, overturn the will of the people and can never be fired for crazy decisions.

Obviously you haven't been on Calguns too long or you would know that Chelene upset a lot of people on her or I should say her PR guy came on here and was an idiot to say the least. Oh and I have met the woman and can say no matter how bad I dislike the main two parties she wouldn't even hit my radar screen to vote for. She is a raving lunitic to say the least. Do a quick youtube search and you can find plenty of reasons to NOT like her.

IWc
11-02-2010, 1:38 AM
"Judicial Independence: Under Attack Again? (2010)" writen by Justice Ming W Chin. From his own words...

Chin's words on regarding of "that judges should get immunity for any decision and could never be fired", got nothing to with 2A but Prop. 8.

He's wrong about the immunity and have no single power to do so. Our laws is still alive to remove the judge. Then why they didn't do it?

He gave an opinion that gun manufacturers are not liable for criminal misuse of their guns. -That is a pro-gun and 2A ruled.

Got no cite from you on Tani G. Cantil-Sakauye isn't her own words but your? Nope, you copycat a words from the cover page of judgevoterguide.com by Craig Huey, a militant anti-choice and extremist conservative activist. And he didn't including guns after the social issues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_issues), you did! I disagreed with your so-called social issues is included the anit-guns or gun control.

BTW- I got a questions for you for our members have a right to know about this problematic. You wrote: (I wrote)If you do more research on them, (I did but you didn't) you'll know that Cantil almost always leaned left on social issues. (from Craig Huey's links) That's just fact myths. I was about to say YES when I read the endorsements, (got those link?) but then I saw that she did side with the left on most social issues. (got proof?) And in case you don't know, gun control is what they call a "social issue". (yet, right, by your definitions) And don't tell me that you're happy with what the CA courts have done with gun control the past decade! (you won't us tell a cases number that they are an gun controllers)

Ming Chin published a book named "Judicial Independence: Under Attack Again? (2010)" What I stated is in there. Read it before calling me a liar! :mad: (still is got nothing to do with the gun controller or 2A)

As for the title of your reply, (wonder why your is "Mid"-Term Elections?) "I just can't believe you won't votes for all the Republican!" I will actually vote mostly REP but for Chelene. I'm not a GOP activist if that is what you implied. (nope) I'm a strong Constitution believer, but in case you missed it, (in case you missed it; on regarding of Tani G. Cantil-Sakauye- “I am very impressed with her, the manner in which she gets to the meat of the coconut on issues” said Justice Marvin Baxter, a conservative member of the state high court. “She knows when to listen and when to talk. She has been very, very effective for a relatively new member of the council.” He said her judicial rulings reveal her to be “a very independent thinker.”) most anti-gun laws (aren't by judges) were proposed and voted on by the left. I don't believe that the Brady folks get much money from the GOP...

Again, it's the lesser of 2 evils. (said Mr. Huey)

Like I said, I don't like any of them. The bottom line is that Brown did and will side with the liberals and you can bet that he'll sign any gun control laws on his desk to keep his base. Meg, who is anti-gun as well, might veto some of the upcoming gun control laws to keep her base. Anti-gun liberals don't like her and she'll gain nothing in passing such laws while she has a lot to loose if she sign them. Am I sure of that? No. But I know what Brown will do.

Hmm... None of the people I vote for are anti-gun, unless you think that Chelene Nightingale is one of them...

I'm very aware of what my vote will accomplish, or not accomplish in this case. I'm just tired of the game. I also know that neither Brown or Meg will overturn any of the anti-gun laws in CA. I don't think Meg will do anything better for us. I know that Brown will probably make things worse, hence my original post of disbelief about gun-owners cheering for Brown!

I will, in this case at least, vote my conscience. I know Chelene will not win, but it is just too painful to vote for any of the 2 anti-gun candidates.

Anyway, funny that I got slammed for not supporting so-called strong Republicans (http://www.westsiderepublicans.com/GOP-RECOMMEND------JUDGES.html) like Meg, Cantil and Chin by one of you guys, then slammed again for voting for some Republicans. You guys should get your things together! (this isn't about the party but to safeguard the Second Amendment by a right persons)
Judicial Supreme Court and Court of Appeal: NO to all. (so the replacement won't be a gun control judges? can you promises us?):43:

Now, who will be replacements them? You? If so, can you control and pick name of the right judges? NOPE! Only the next Governor can appoint a new replacement judges. Do you really think they won't pick the anti-guns judges?

Bottom line and right now, what's I'm saying its... we can controls and safeguard by votes YES (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5202348&postcount=56]Why do you agree with a website that says a judge who ruled that gun manufacturers are not liable for criminal misuse of their guns should not be a judge? That sounds exactly who civil rights advocates would want.[/QUOTE]) for both Tani G. Cantil-Sakauye and Ming W. Chin from wrongful replacement (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5202364&postcount=57) by our next governor.

I did some deeper searching IWc after your comments, I think you're right.

I see no reason not to be enthusiastic about Justice Tani Cantil-Sakauye, this piece is from the Sacramento Bee. She appears to be more of what I'd want in a Justice.
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/07/21/2903895/schwarzenegger-to-pick-cantil.html

This is sure a time consuming process.
But then so is watching reality TV and CSI.

Vick

Thank you folks!:svengo:

chunger
11-02-2010, 2:42 AM
Unfortunately, the race is really between Brown and Whitman. Don't like any of them, but I'd go against Brown (I still can't believe that some gun owners would vote for him!)


I am not a heavy hitter here nor do I claim to know much about the inner workings of politics, but you don't have to have a very long memory to remember when:

1. Rogue DOJ agents were harassing and threatening gun owners, raiding gun stores, running cross-state-line sting operations against California gun owners, spreading all manner of FUD.

2. Staff attorneys were creating policies and declaring 100% legal items illegal and generally threatening out of state businesses with severe legal repercussions for doing business with California residents.

3. Local law enforcement agencies were advised by DOJ to prosecute and harass vulnerable individuals and businesses.

When Jerry Brown took the office of Attorney General, all of this stopped almost overnight. The Division of Firearms was DOWNGRADED to baureu of Firearms. Rogue DOJ agents found themselves seeking employment with various lesser city LEO organizations. An Amicus Brief was filed by the state of California in SUPPORT of the 2nd amendment in a landmark federal case.

I may not have all of the details accurate to minutia, but in broad strokes, this is what I remember happening when Jerry Brown became Attorney General. I was skeptical at first that this would be to our advantage. What has Meg Whitman done for gun owners? Jerry Brown is not going to be able to come out and say the words we would like to hear a pro-2A candidate say, but these actions as well as the open line of communication with the the right people representing the interests of gun owners leads me to believe strongly that Jerry Brown is a better candidate based solely on 2A issues.

The actions that Jerry Brown took have positively effected me. We as a community of gun owners and 2A activists need to remember when someone sticks their neck out to help us. If so, they will be more inclined to help us again in our hour of need (veto time for ludicrous legislation). I trusted Arnold based on not much more than party line assumptions. That was an expensive lesson I will not soon repeat.

kellito
11-02-2010, 4:55 AM
...lots of smarty talk....


thanks for setting stuff straight (again). Hopefully CorsicanRedneck reads it.

kellito
11-02-2010, 4:57 AM
....The actions that Jerry Brown took have positively effected me. We as a community of gun owners and 2A activists need to remember when someone sticks their neck out to help us. If so, they will be more inclined to help us again in our hour of need (veto time for ludicrous legislation). I trusted Arnold based on not much more than party line assumptions. That was an expensive lesson I will not soon repeat.

This.

jester
11-02-2010, 7:59 AM
Meg has consistantly refused to answer pings on HER OWN SITE regarding her 2A stance;
http://www.megwhitman.com/help_faq.php

So, while I'm personally still not sure who I'm going to vote for,I'm leaning towards holding my nose & voting for the dem for the 1st time EVER!!