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View Full Version : purchasing a california registered AW questions


buffalkill
10-30-2010, 7:55 AM
My friend is moving out of state and I want to purchase his FAL. He has had it since the nineties and tells me it is an Entreprise built FAL and that's pretty much all I know about it. can I configure it to a 10rd fixed mag and go to my FFL for ftf transfer, or is there more to it? Anything else I need to look out for?

erik18
10-30-2010, 8:00 AM
Not going to be able to do it. Assault weapons can not be sold to anyone other than LE in CA with a department letterhead.

CSACANNONEER
10-30-2010, 8:09 AM
Not going to be able to do it. Assault weapons will not be sold to anyone other than LE in CA with a department letterhead.

Fixed it for you. The law does allow for it if you can get DOJ approval. I do know one non-LEO, non-FFL, non-movie industry type who has been able to purchase and register 50BMG rifles and AWs. But, he has good reason. From a practical standpoint, it's not going to happen for anyone unless, they already know that they have good cause (think DoD contracts, etc.) to get one.

As fara as buying a RAW goes, if it is listed, you are SOL. If it is an AW by features, one can remove the evil features, de register it and transfer it just like any other firearm.

tozan
10-30-2010, 8:22 AM
Being a non-FN varient shouldn't it be ok as long as he complies with standard OLL mods?

buffalkill
10-30-2010, 8:32 AM
just for clarification I am not trying to transfer the AW status to me, just the rifle in a non-aw configuration. does the rifle still need to be "de-registered" and how would we go about doing that?

hoffmang
10-30-2010, 8:35 AM
just for clarification I am not trying to transfer the AW status to me, just the rifle in a non-aw configuration. does the rifle still need to be "de-registered" and how would we go about doing that?

If it can be deregistered (aka, it's not listed) then the current owner can make it otherwise CA compliant and deregister it with CA DOJ, then transfer it to you PPT.

-Gene

emcon5
10-30-2010, 8:55 AM
If it can be deregistered (aka, it's not listed) then the current owner can make it otherwise CA compliant and deregister it with CA DOJ, then transfer it to you PPT.

-Gene

I know it is legal, but I wouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole. I would hate to face felony charges because some halfwit in Sacramento didn't do their job properly and didn't take the rifle out of the computer system.

Those clowns (state employees) can't seem to get something trivial like my DMV renewal out in a timely manner, I would hate to rely on them for something important.

buffalkill
10-30-2010, 9:08 AM
I know it is legal, but I wouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole. I would hate to face felony charges because some halfwit in Sacramento didn't do their job properly and didn't take the rifle out of the computer system.

Those clowns (state employees) can't seem to get something trivial like my DMV renewal out in a timely manner, I would hate to rely on them for something important.

Mayby I could get and carry around a letter stating that this is a registered de-registered aw.:)

hoffmang
10-30-2010, 9:45 AM
I know it is legal, but I wouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole. I would hate to face felony charges because some halfwit in Sacramento didn't do their job properly and didn't take the rifle out of the computer system.

Those clowns (state employees) can't seem to get something trivial like my DMV renewal out in a timely manner, I would hate to rely on them for something important.

1. Just retain a copy of the form/letter you sent and the Fedex tracking info or the Certified Return Receipt.

2. The rifle becomes not an AW simply by features (assuming it's unlisted) so the new owner can't even be charged if it's in the right configuration.

-Gene

buffalkill
10-30-2010, 11:40 PM
thanks for all the advice. once again calguns proves to be a great resource to help stay within the laws.

bwiese
10-30-2010, 11:45 PM
I'll back what Gene says and add that background support for this was vocalized by DOJ's Randy Rossi & Tim Rieger (Dir, Asst Dir/Dept AG) in 2004 at a "Meet the DOJ" meeting in San Jose.

Note that the seller will first have to convert his AW to CA legal non-AW status, and then file for de-reg the AW with DOJ before any transaction is attempted. In the past, DOJ has sometimes asked to inspect the gun but I don't think that'll occur now.

buffalkill
11-09-2010, 8:50 PM
I have pursued the transfer of this FAL but having a little trouble. Seems like the CA DOJ and my local FFL's are aways apart from each other on the procedure to transfer this firearm.

I informed the seller of what I learned from this forum and advised him to contact DOJ on how to de-register or cancel the AW registration on this firearm. He was told that since it was not a "listed" firearm it could be modified by the current owner and transfered through an FFL without having to de-register or cancel with the DOJ. He was also informed to send in a "no longer in possesion" notice after the transfer.

I have called several of my local FFL's and the response I get is "once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon. Can't be done" The one FFL I talked to that has an assault weapon permit told me that the only way to transfer a registered assault weapon is to transfer it to them, have them make the modifications, pay them roughly $200, and then transfer the firearm to me.

I guess it's going to be easier and cheaper to purchase a different rifle (different serial # anyway) without having been branded an "Assault weapon"

C123K_LoadMaster
11-09-2010, 9:38 PM
I know for a fact if the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as an SB 23 assault weapon are removed, it may then be transferred by a FFL like any other long gun. Saw it done at the Gun Exchange in San Jose and Irvington Arms in Fremont. Only problem doing it this way is the DOJ will not know how to go about de-registering the firearm after the sale because the method is not described on their No Longer in Possession Form.

This should make Bill happy. The RAW owner gets to sell his firearm and it still stays on the CA DOJ registration list. NOTE: The law states you may not transfer an Assault Weapon. There is nothing in the law that states you canít transfer a firearm that is not an Assault Weapon, but is registered as an Assault Weapon.

Librarian
11-09-2010, 9:44 PM
I think registering an 'assault weapon' ought to be thought of more like a marriage.

You can take off the rings and amicably divide the property, but you can't get married again until the paperwork is done.

Thus, proper order of operations is

remove features
get DOJ to un-register the weapon
sell the weapon as a non-a-w.
Sorry about the kittens.

C123K_LoadMaster
11-09-2010, 9:58 PM
I think registering an 'assault weapon' ought to be thought of more like a marriage.

You can take off the rings and amicably divide the property, but you can't get married again until the paperwork is done.

Thus, proper order of operations is

remove features
get DOJ to un-register the weapon
sell the weapon as a non-a-w.

Sorry about the kittens.

Given the DOJ will take a year or may never de-register the firearm makes what you suggest not practical.

bwiese
11-09-2010, 10:11 PM
Given the DOJ will take a year or may never de-register the firearm makes what you suggest not practical.

DOJ will not take a year to do this... Separate unit from DROS /volreg/ intrafamily xfers.

Librarian
11-09-2010, 10:28 PM
Given the DOJ will take a year or may never de-register the firearm makes what you suggest not practical.

I don't think committing a CA felony -- 12280 (a)(1) -- because one is too impatient to follow CA's stupid procedures is a very practical idea, either.

bwiese
11-09-2010, 10:37 PM
I don't think committing a CA felony -- 12280 (a)(1) -- because one is too impatient to follow CA's stupid procedures is a very practical idea, either.

If it's a Cat 3 reg'd AW with evil features removed sufficient for it to not be regarded as an AW for transit, shipping & gunsmithing purposes it likely also isn't an AW for transfer purposes ;) - I can't see a double-standard where it is an AW sometimes but not other times (in all cases Cat 3 reg'd AW with features removed)

I think the deregistration is really necessary regardless of other issues for simply practicality & drama reduction - just to stop unfavorable interactions with LEs if the gun's serial number comes up as a reg'd AW during a vehicle stop and it was still listed under the old owner.

dantodd
11-10-2010, 7:18 AM
There is bj reason to inform the ffl that the weapon us our was a registered AW. As long as the fun is un legal configuration at the time of the transfer the ffl will never know it was ever registered.