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jm838
10-29-2010, 3:30 PM
So, according to page 127 of http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf, it's perfectly okay for me to buy a gun in Oklahoma, where I go to school. I plan on doing so soon, but I don't think many people will be willing to sell to me without a state ID. Can I get a state ID through the DMV here and still keep my CA driver's license? It's not worth it for me to have to deal with changes in insurance and renewals and all the other fun stuff that comes with a complete residency change, so I need to be able to have both.

Quiet
10-29-2010, 3:39 PM
You need OK state DL or ID in order to show proof of residency in OK.

Requirements for obtaining a OK state DL/ID card. (http://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/pub/DOCS.pdf)

If you get a DL, you need to give up your CA DL.
Appears to be no requirement to give up your CA DL, if you get an OK ID.

dwtt
10-29-2010, 3:42 PM
Why not ask the Oklahoma state department of vehicles?
You can find a local office and phone number here: http://www.dmv.org/ok-oklahoma/

jm838
10-29-2010, 3:44 PM
You need OK state DL or ID in order to show proof of residency in OK.

Requirements for obtaining a OK state DL/ID card. (http://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/pub/DOCS.pdf)

If you get a DL, you need to give up your CA DL.
Appears to be no requirement to give up your CA DL, if you get an OK ID.



Right, got it. The requirements for getting one aren't an issue, I just don't know if it's CA kosher. I have this (probably irrational) fear that the moment I get an OK ID my CA driver's license will somehow be invalidated. Anyone want to tell me everything's gonna be okay?

Peter.Steele
10-29-2010, 3:47 PM
Right, got it. The requirements for getting one aren't an issue, I just don't know if it's CA kosher. I have this (probably irrational) fear that the moment I get an OK ID my CA driver's license will somehow be invalidated. Anyone want to tell me everything's gonna be okay?

Not exactly the same situation, but similar. I've lived in the PRK for almost 6 years now. I got a notice a couple months ago that my Maine driver's license was about to expire, asking if I wanted to renew it. Apparently it wasn't invalidated by my having a CA driver's license. (Or, before that, an AZ driver's license, or FL before that.)

NSR500
10-29-2010, 4:18 PM
Here's the formula I've used since 2006 when I established residency in Texas.

Texas State ID and California DL

I have had zero problems in buying firearms in either State.

inbox485
10-29-2010, 4:38 PM
How do you get dual residency. I could see this being a gold mine for doing some personal handgun importation.

gunsmith
10-29-2010, 5:20 PM
you'll be fine, they don't look at gun sales-its the vehicle insurance & voter fraud that bust people- the only hiccup I could see if you start selling lots of guns ... afaik you cant sell guns without a CA doj having a record you have it, ianal

hoffmang
10-29-2010, 8:05 PM
How do you get dual residency. I could see this being a gold mine for doing some personal handgun importation.

College students automatically get dual residency.

-Gene

gemini1
10-29-2010, 8:41 PM
When I moved to FL years ago to help my younger sis who just arrived get acclimated, I heard that if you give up your CA DL in exchange of FL DL, its as simple as 1,2,3. But if you were from another state settling in CA, you would have to take another test to change your DL to CA, so with this in mind, I decided to get an FL ID while keeping my CA DL, driving around FL for several months. It was in FL where I got my first handgun, and a CCW thats still valid to this day. My FL ID has expired years ago though, never got the chance to renew it.

NSR500
10-29-2010, 8:49 PM
gemini1 brings up a good point.

Keep the DL in the stricter State and get the State ID in the easier one.

Maybejim
10-29-2010, 9:03 PM
Idaho makes you give them your out of state ID before they will issue their ID or Drivers License. They say it's a Federal requirement (relatively new). Theoretically they send that ID to your other state and invalidate it.

You-Two
10-30-2010, 9:40 AM
So, according to page 127 of http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf, it's perfectly okay for me to buy a gun in Oklahoma, where I go to school. I plan on doing so soon, but I don't think many people will be willing to sell to me without a state ID.

Well...you won't know until you ask. I think asking an Oklahoma FFL would be more informative than asking a CA gun board.

You are correct though...you are considered a resident of both states and can purchase firearms. The real issue is how to prove your OK residency? Being a student it might suffice to show an official student ID card and also furnish a bill or auto registration proving the physical location of your residence in OK.

My experience purchasing guns in OK was as an Active Duty military member with a CA DL. I was stationed in OK on orders. The federal law actually says that the state of our permanent orders is where we purchase firearms, not the state of our residence for tax purposes. We just show our military ID, a copy of our orders to the base in that state, and a bill of some sort to validate a local address. This is good in most, if not all, states (even CA).

I would think you could get an Oklahoma ID card without having an issue with your CA DL. If you were to get an Oklahoma DL, then they would most likely invalidate your CA DL. Both times I've changed my DLs, the state of my new license just punched holes in my old license and gave it back to me or said they would shred it if I didn't want it. I am stationed in CA and recently got a CA ID card, but still maintain my residency and DL with Wyoming. The CA DMV still had my old CA DL# in the database even though it had expired more than a year ago...so I got my old number back. The lady made it sound like they had been informed about the change by at least one of my previous states.

Good luck!

jm838
10-31-2010, 2:55 PM
Cool, sounds easy enough. Looks like I'll be going in for my OK ID next week. Pretty sweet deal, I figure I can save some cash and have a better selection by buying out here, and if I buy anything scary looking I can CA neuter it myself and avoid a middleman.

edrrt
10-31-2010, 5:02 PM
I was under the impression that under California law a California resident was prohibited from purchasing a firearm out of state. Therefore while OK may see you as a resident and sell you a firearm if California still see's you as a resident they could charge you. Claiming dual residency will keep you from having to change you car registration and DL but at the same time under CA law doesn't it also prohibit you from buying the gun out of state (because you are still claiming to be a CA resident)?

Can anyone clarify this please???

I would imagine that this would get looked into if you submited the importation form for a gun and the computer indicated a valid CA DL/ car registration on file during that time.

Anchors
10-31-2010, 6:57 PM
How do you get dual residency. I could see this being a gold mine for doing some personal handgun importation.

You don't really get dual residency. You are either qualified under one of the federal exemptions or you aren't. Military stationed outside of home state and college student being a few. Renting a P.O. Box in AZ isn't sufficient.

College students automatically get dual residency.

-Gene

This is my situation. CA ID and AZ DL.
But I am legally a dual resident.

I was under the impression that under California law a California resident was prohibited from purchasing a firearm out of state. Therefore while OK may see you as a resident and sell you a firearm if California still see's you as a resident they could charge you. Claiming dual residency will keep you from having to change you car registration and DL but at the same time under CA law doesn't it also prohibit you from buying the gun out of state (because you are still claiming to be a CA resident)?

Can anyone clarify this please???

I would imagine that this would get looked into if you submited the importation form for a gun and the computer indicated a valid CA DL/ car registration on file during that time.

No, because under federal law for dual residents you are a resident of State A when you are physically in State A and a resident of State B when you are physically in State B.

So I'm a resident of California at the moment, but when I go home for winter intercession from school, I will be a resident of Arizona. I have bought handguns this way and had no problem bringing them to California.

But again, I must stress that this isn't a fix or workaround to circumvent the roster. This situation either applies to you or it doesn't and if it doesn't you can get in trouble.

Jared1981
11-01-2010, 12:33 AM
States like Idaho are opening themselves to an equal protection lawsuit. Federal law prohibits having more than one Drivers License at one time (some exemptions for CDL's). ID cards are not mentioned and ID cards have nothing in common with Drivers Licenses. Furthermore if you are legally a resident of another state (when you live there or go to college) many states do not regulate private sales so in those cases, you don't even need the ID card, just be sure you are legally able to buy under a private sale, which you are under federal law if you actually are residing in the other state when you engage in the sale.

Desert Cowboy
11-01-2010, 2:07 PM
Ok
I like this thread, and it got me thinking. There is a statement in the ATFE regs that says you can make a purchase in another state if you are resident of another state, even if part time.
The ATF reg says:

27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OFTERMS
An out-of-State college student
may establish residence in a State
by residing and maintaining a
home in a college dormitory or in a
location off-campus during the
school term.

ATF Rul. 80-21

"State of residence" is defined by
regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the
State in which an individual regularly
resides or maintains a home. The
regulation also provides an example
of an individual who maintains a
home in State X and a home in State
Y. The individual regularly resides in
State X except for the summer
months and in State Y for the summer
months of the year. The regulation
states that during the time the individual
actually resides in State X he is a
resident of State X, and during the
time he actually resides in State Y he
is a resident of State Y.


My wife and I have a house in Northern AZ we go there about 4-6 days every other month, for about 10-12 days around Christmas and New year, and for a week or two in the summer.
The way I interpret the above example of the regulation, I should be able to purchase a gun, of any type legal in AZ while residing in AZ. I haven't broached this question to any dealers in AZ yet, but what ID would be required to convince a FFL that I am indeed a legal AZ resident? Also if anyone is familiar with doing this, if there a good shop in the Prescott area that understands this?

Thanks

GearHead
11-01-2010, 3:15 PM
You don't really get dual residency. You are either qualified under one of the federal exemptions or you aren't. Military stationed outside of home state and college student being a few. Renting a P.O. Box in AZ isn't sufficient.



This is my situation. CA ID and AZ DL.
But I am legally a dual resident.



No, because under federal law for dual residents you are a resident of State A when you are physically in State A and a resident of State B when you are physically in State B.

So I'm a resident of California at the moment, but when I go home for winter intercession from school, I will be a resident of Arizona. I have bought handguns this way and had no problem bringing them to California.

But again, I must stress that this isn't a fix or workaround to circumvent the roster. This situation either applies to you or it doesn't and if it doesn't you can get in trouble.

As a college student currently in CA without a CA DL, this is fantastic news.

inbox485
11-01-2010, 3:41 PM
As a college student currently in CA without a CA DL, this is fantastic news.

Unless I've misunderstood CA law, you can't stay in CA for more than (I want to say 60 days) without getting a CA license and registration.

Wherryj
11-01-2010, 4:28 PM
College students automatically get dual residency.

-Gene

I suppose it doesn't work if you need to get a DL in the other state? I ended up "losing" my CA driver's license when I went to medical school in DC. DC also collects vehicle tax via registration of the vehicle.

DC and VA had a ten day "grace" period after which the vehicle had to be registered. I guess that CA has it, but I know people who haven't registered for years. Two of my classmates didn't think that they had to register their vehicle in those states and on the 11th day and every day thereafter until the vehicle was registered they were hit with a ticket.

I was a little surprised about it when I came back to the PRK. I walked into the DMV to drop off forms as stated when I called them. I had given them my form and the clerk handed the driver's license test.

Fortunately even though I hadn't taken the test in about 25 years it wasn't overly difficult. It was just a bit of a shock having to take it without ANY prior notice.

It isn't a huge deal if you "lose" the PRK license. It's pretty easy to get back.

Anchors
11-01-2010, 11:41 PM
Again, a non-issue with dual residency.
The states of AZ and CA don't expect me to re-register my car everytime I come back and forth.
A cop asked me about it anc I explained to him that I am a resident of both states and that it was legal for my vehicle to be here with out of state plates. He seemed to agree and no other officer had brought it up since.

I could become a full-time CA resident and save thousands on tuition, but I plan to go back to reside in AZ again full-time at some point and value my residency there.

edrrt
11-03-2010, 12:48 PM
While the feds consider it ok to buy outside of CA when living in a second state I thought if your still claiming to be a CA resident while in the other state, the CA law of not buying a firearm out of state still applies.

At least this is how it has been put in other Calgun threads.

Is this true?

LHC30
11-03-2010, 1:22 PM
CA residency, for DMV purposes, is where you spend 6mos +1day OR where you are employed (with certain exceptions). AND a person may have only one VALID driver's license at a time...

How this applies to Federal law and firearms purchased through FFL's I do not know.

I would love to have Legal advice (with citations) to answer my situation. I live most of the time in CA and work here = tax status is CA resident. BUT, I own property in AZ and spend quite a bit of time there (Lake Havasu), but not to the 6mos+1day stuff.

Can I legally purchase firearm(s) in AZ on my 4day weekends there? If so, can I bring them into CA (provided they do not violate the AWB) or do they have to remain in AZ?

hoffmang
11-03-2010, 7:29 PM
DMV residency does not equal ATF residency does not equal state tax residency. ATF basically states that if you have property or a long term rental and you stay in that property for a couple of weeks to a month or two, you are a resident of that state while you are there. I suggest you read through the link posted in the OP and http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf and you'll see the example they give.

-Gene

LHC30
11-03-2010, 8:20 PM
Thanks Gene...BTW, I cant find anything about CA law issue that was brought up....

hoffmang
11-03-2010, 8:38 PM
Thanks Gene...BTW, I cant find anything about CA law issue that was brought up....

California can not control non residents of California. If ATF deems you a resident of another state for even a short time, you're not a resident of California for federal and California state law purposes.

-Gene