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D.R.E.
10-29-2010, 2:58 PM
I mailed in the ballot w/ JB box filled in.

[Some needlessly inflamatory text deleted.]

Who else single issue'd this one?

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 3:03 PM
I would, but I live in Washington State. Good show.

DannyInSoCal
10-29-2010, 3:06 PM
Really? You didn't see the D rating Brown received from the NRA...?

Congrats - You are now officially a contributor to our gun control issues in CA...

--------------

NRA has graded Whitman higher than Brown.

http://www.nrapvf.org/upcoming-elect...alifornia.aspx



According to the NRA this is what a D means

"D --- An anti-gun candidate who usually supports restrictive gun control legislation and opposes pro-gun reforms. Regardless of public statements, can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."

Milsurps
10-29-2010, 3:08 PM
I mailed in the ballot w/ JB box filled in.

I feel kind of dirty.


As you should...







;)

D.R.E.
10-29-2010, 3:10 PM
I trust the rating given to candidates by calgunners that actually litigate gun issues a hell of a lot more than the NRA.

Really? You didn't see the D rating Brown received from the NRA...?

Congrats - You are now officially a contributor to our gun control issues in CA...

--------------

NRA has graded Whitman higher than Brown.

http://www.nrapvf.org/upcoming-elect...alifornia.aspx



According to the NRA this is what a D means

"D --- An anti-gun candidate who usually supports restrictive gun control legislation and opposes pro-gun reforms. Regardless of public statements, can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."

odysseus
10-29-2010, 3:12 PM
How did you vote on Prop 25?


That one should scare people. Look who is pushing for it.

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 3:13 PM
1. Divison of Firearms was reduced to a bureau – meaning there is staffing to handle harassing bad guys but not normal law-abiding citizens.
2. Iggy Chin and Randy Rossi were sent packing.
3. Allison Merrilees found it better to work elsewhere.
4. The DOJ Bureau of Firearms has not lobbied for gun control.
5. Brown seems to have discouraged the legislature from passing more restrictions.
6. “Permanence” rule-making is gone.
7. Brown filed the amicus in support of McDonald.
8. Brown killed an anti-gun brief which was headed out the door for Heller.
9. He may have been instrumental in arranging for microstamping to die
10. New regulations seem to have been killed during his AG tenure. Note that OLL's and bullet buttons mean that “AW” style weaponry has proliferated despite the ban.
11. Tried to stop AB962 (quietly, though).
12. Effectively killed a lot of cases against individual citizens. The DA decides to prosecute and the DOJ simply didn't show up to provide the testimony the DA needed for a conviction.
13. Note that the net effect of certain individuals leaving the BOF has been that it is now not a very political organization and is simply people doing the processing of paperwork, requests and the like according to regulations rather than trying to re-interpret to our disadvantage.

Meg Whitman launched a crusade to annihilate any gun sales and parts from EBay. She is an anti-gunner.

D.R.E.
10-29-2010, 3:15 PM
How did you vote on Prop 25?


That one should scare people. Look who is pushing for it.

Change 2/3 to majority to raise taxes: Something was wrong with my ballot, it didn't have "**** no" or "are you ****ing kidding me" on it. I settled for a "no" but wrote them a long letter.

D.R.E.
10-29-2010, 3:15 PM
What he said.

Great, concise summation.

BTW: as bweise and others discussed, the NRA rating was not what it seemed.

1. Divison of Firearms was reduced to a bureau – meaning there is staffing to handle harassing bad guys but not normal law-abiding citizens.
2. Iggy Chin and Randy Rossi were sent packing.
3. Allison Merrilees found it better to work elsewhere.
4. The DOJ Bureau of Firearms has not lobbied for gun control.
5. Brown seems to have discouraged the legislature from passing more restrictions.
6. “Permanence” rule-making is gone.
7. Brown filed the amicus in support of McDonald.
8. Brown killed an anti-gun brief which was headed out the door for Heller.
9. He may have been instrumental in arranging for microstamping to die
10. New regulations seem to have been killed during his AG tenure. Note that OLL's and bullet buttons mean that “AW” style weaponry has proliferated despite the ban.
11. Tried to stop AB962 (quietly, though).
12. Effectively killed a lot of cases against individual citizens. The DA decides to prosecute and the DOJ simply didn't show up to provide the testimony the DA needed for a conviction.
13. Note that the net effect of certain individuals leaving the BOF has been that it is now not a very political organization and is simply people doing the processing of paperwork, requests and the like according to regulations rather than trying to re-interpret to our disadvantage.

odysseus
10-29-2010, 3:17 PM
Change 2/3 to majority to raise taxes: Something was wrong with my ballot, it didn't have "**** no" or "are you ****ing kidding me" on it. I settled for a "no" but wrote them a long letter.

LOL. Yeah - that prop is like a blatant offense to a tax payer. It hands over even more power to the tax and spend majority in Cali's legislature.

wellerjohn
10-29-2010, 3:18 PM
I mailed in the ballot w/ JB box filled in.

I feel kind of dirty.

I hope it really was the right thing in terms of 2A and doesn't kill everything else. If the ballot gets lost I'm not going to be upset, other than about the Cooley vote (y) and 19 (go team).

Who else single issue'd this one?

I'm going to hold my nose too, just can't vote for Meg.

verapakill
10-29-2010, 3:20 PM
Jerry brown was by far the worst gov. the state of Ca has ever had if and when he gets elected say hello to more gun control laws

DannyInSoCal
10-29-2010, 3:22 PM
seems to have discouraged, may have been instrumental, tried to stop,

I stand corrected - Obviously Brown is the beacon of hope for all CA gun owners.

Comical....

Josh3239
10-29-2010, 3:23 PM
So is this the group I can think if my tax money goes to sending illegal immigrants to college? :chris:

Meg Whitman launched a crusade to annihilate any gun sales and parts from EBay. She is an anti-gunner.

That is business, not politics and it's a weak excuse at best to use that as an indication of how she'll legislate on behalf of herself and the people of California. Next you'll be telling me every gun shop that has a "no sales to California" sign in their Gun Broker ad is an anti-gunner. It is called business.

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 3:23 PM
Jerry brown was by far the worst gov. the state of Ca has ever had if and when he gets elected say hello to more gun control laws

seems to have discouraged, may have been instrumental, tried to stop,

I stand corrected - Obviously Brown is the beacon of hope for all CA gun owners.

Comical....

I guess none of the things I posted matter? Considering he wrote the McDonald amicus brief for California, you'd think that there would be more consideration of the issue.

Meg Whitman is a died in the wool anti-gunner who has shown major hostility to second amendment issues in her past.

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 3:25 PM
That is business, not politics and it's a weak excuse at best to use that as an indication of how she'll legislate on behalf of herself and the people of California. Next you'll be telling me every gun shop that has a "no sales to California" sign in their Gun Broker ad is an anti-gunner. It is called business.

No, they are anti-gun, especially when they tell Californians that they need to leave the state and abandon it before they would ever consider selling anything at all to them. You realize that Calguns was formed out of this basis where California gun owners were treated poorly, right?

PEBKAC
10-29-2010, 3:26 PM
Really? You didn't see the D rating Brown received from the NRA...?

Congrats - You are now officially a contributor to our gun control issues in CA...

--------------

NRA has graded Whitman higher than Brown.

http://www.nrapvf.org/upcoming-elect...alifornia.aspx



According to the NRA this is what a D means

"D --- An anti-gun candidate who usually supports restrictive gun control legislation and opposes pro-gun reforms. Regardless of public statements, can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."
A rating which does not magically negate all he has done for us as AG.

I'm dropping my ballot off on election day. Single issued this one as far as candidates that matter go. Well, singled-issued assuming voting for candidates with a chance in heck of winning. Hence: Brown, Carly, Cooley.

Really most of this election leaves me rather ambivalent feeling. Just really not much to be excited about. Even if candidates that would be good for us get in and act the way they are expected to, it basically just means that things don't get worse. Kind of a buzzkill. :(

D.R.E.
10-29-2010, 3:27 PM
Jerry brown was by far the worst gov. the state of Ca has ever had if and when he gets elected say hello to more gun control laws

Worst ever? I guess I'm an oversensitive type, but I'd say Gov Olson's role in pushing for Japanese internment puts him way ahead: http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist8/evac3.html

I don't believe anyone has said GB is good, just that MW is worse.

AEC1
10-29-2010, 3:28 PM
I am so glad I am a FL voter. I checked mne for Marco Rubio!!!! I got to vote for a GREAT canidate!!!

Bizcuits
10-29-2010, 3:29 PM
LOL!

Jerry supported Heller.

Meg decided since one gunmen bought two 10rd magazines off Ebay, that she should cost her company millions and stop all sales of firearms magazines...

Really? You didn't see the D rating Brown received from the NRA...?

Congrats - You are now officially a contributor to our gun control issues in CA...

--------------

NRA has graded Whitman higher than Brown.

http://www.nrapvf.org/upcoming-elect...alifornia.aspx



According to the NRA this is what a D means

"D --- An anti-gun candidate who usually supports restrictive gun control legislation and opposes pro-gun reforms. Regardless of public statements, can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."

BluNorthern
10-29-2010, 3:29 PM
How did you vote on Prop 25?


That one should scare people. Look who is pushing for it.

Not to hijack the thread, but since you mentioned it...

LOS ANGELES -- A new poll shows strong support of Proposition 25 - the Nov. 2 ballot measure that would make it easier to pass a state budget - but many voters are undecided about another measure to halt California's landmark global warming law.

The Los Angeles Times/USC poll published Monday says 58 percent of likely voters support Proposition 25, which would change the two-thirds majority needed to pass a budget in the state Legislature to a simple majority.

Only 28 percent oppose it and 13 percent remain undecided.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/10/25/2131069/poll-voters-back-prop-25-undecided.html

People in this state make me crazy.

AEC1
10-29-2010, 3:29 PM
Jerry brown was by far the worst gov. the state of Ca has ever had if and when he gets elected say hello to more gun control laws

I dont know, I think he is tied with Grey Davis

Glock22Fan
10-29-2010, 3:31 PM
I guess none of the things I posted matter? Considering he wrote the McDonald amicus brief for California, you'd think that there would be more consideration of the issue.

Meg Whitman is a died in the wool anti-gunner who has shown major hostility to second amendment issues in her past.

I agree, and my vote (for JB) should have arrived there by now.


It is funny, everyone trusts the "right people," you know, the "people in the know," the ones that work very closely with CRPA, NRA, DOJ and attorneys such as Gura, Davis and Kilmer, on just about every matter except this one.

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 3:37 PM
I agree, and my vote (for JB) should have arrived there by now.


It is funny, everyone trusts the "right people," you know, the "people in the know," the ones that work very closely with CRPA, NRA, DOJ and attorneys such as Gura, Davis and Kilmer, on just about every matter except this one.

Because they are mixing up politics and legal stuff. Jerry Brown as Governor will cause much less legal headaches for CGF than Meg Whitman do. This is why many of the upper echelon of CGF are voting for Brown, due to what he did for us gun owners.

PEBKAC
10-29-2010, 3:38 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but since you mentioned it...

LOS ANGELES -- A new poll shows strong support of Proposition 25 - the Nov. 2 ballot measure that would make it easier to pass a state budget - but many voters are undecided about another measure to halt California's landmark global warming law.

The Los Angeles Times/USC poll published Monday says 58 percent of likely voters support Proposition 25, which would change the two-thirds majority needed to pass a budget in the state Legislature to a simple majority.

Only 28 percent oppose it and 13 percent remain undecided.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/10/25/2131069/poll-voters-back-prop-25-undecided.html

People in this state make me crazy.
Probably because they saw "budget only needs 50% + 1 and legislators don't get paid until one passes" and missed the other bits...

I for one, am more interested in 20 and 27.

Luieburger
10-29-2010, 3:46 PM
I'm a left-leaning libertarian who registered Republican just so I can vote for Ron Paul in 2012 and against Meg Whitman in the primaries. I voted against her once, and I did it again 2 weeks ago when I sent in my ballot.

Yes on 19.
Yes for Brown, the small-government Democrat (yes there is such a thing).

BluNorthern
10-29-2010, 3:53 PM
Probably because they saw "budget only needs 50% + 1 and legislators don't get paid until one passes" and missed the other bits...

I for one, am more interested in 20 and 27.
True, it would be a refreshing change to actually have our legislators do something useful and representative for the people of California rather than figuring out ways to keep their sorry butts in office by manipulating voting districts. But we all know where their priorities lie, and with uninformed voters, why should they worry?

Hippo
10-29-2010, 4:05 PM
I single issue voted the governor:

Which one do Nurses, Teachers and Firefighters prefer and then chose the opposite. In fact that's my stance on the propositions as well.

The unions are the single biggest threat facing California and we need to rout out that problem asap.

SideWinder11
10-29-2010, 4:09 PM
It's funny that you guys need a "support group" after voting for JB. Shows us a lot!!!

I guess if Meg was governor we wouldn't need Calguns to fight legislation anymore....hummm maybe that's why they are telling you to vote for JB???

The lawyers wouldn't want to be out of a job with Calguns now would they????

bwiese
10-29-2010, 4:10 PM
I trust the rating given to candidates by calgunners that actually litigate gun issues a hell of a lot more than the NRA.

Let's back off on that. We have some great CA NRA guys that I can 100% say work their arse off.
A big hats off to them and the CRPA lobbyst for killing wholesale the bad laws this year.

Remember that Fairfax, VA is 3000 miles away. Sometimes accurate information doesn't get that
far that fast - just like the home office in a commercial enterprise doesn't always 'get' what the
branch office is doing.

2009_gunner
10-29-2010, 4:11 PM
LOL!

Jerry supported Heller.

Meg decided since one gunmen bought two 10rd magazines off Ebay, that she should cost her company millions and stop all sales of firearms magazines...

Exactly. Meg displays the behavior typical of knee-jerk gun banners.

With Meg, we would be just one incident away from passing more LCAV legislation.

greasemonkey
10-29-2010, 4:12 PM
I really only find the latter quoted argument compelling. The accuracy & politics of the NRA's ratings and their competency in litigation has been discussed(and dissented) on here and elsewhere ad nauseam. I mean, I'm glad to see people asking questions and initially disagreeing, not just toeing a Calguns line; but there comes a point where you have to realize the people that are themselves PERFORMING and drafting the litigation(with positive results, at that) PROBABLY have a pretty good idea who's going to cause the most or least trouble for them.

I don't see how Meg would be any more effective than Arnie has been. We KNOW J.B. respects law and has a firm grasp on Constitutional Law, he's experienced enough to produce good results for our 2A rights while flying under the radar and appearing neutral.
Really? You didn't see the D rating Brown received from the NRA...?

Congrats - You are now officially a contributor to our gun control issues in CA...

1. Divison of Firearms was reduced to a bureau – meaning there is staffing to handle harassing bad guys but not normal law-abiding citizens.
2. Iggy Chin and Randy Rossi were sent packing.
3. Allison Merrilees found it better to work elsewhere.
4. The DOJ Bureau of Firearms has not lobbied for gun control.
5. Brown seems to have discouraged the legislature from passing more restrictions.
6. “Permanence” rule-making is gone.
7. Brown filed the amicus in support of McDonald.
8. Brown killed an anti-gun brief which was headed out the door for Heller.
9. He may have been instrumental in arranging for microstamping to die
10. New regulations seem to have been killed during his AG tenure. Note that OLL's and bullet buttons mean that “AW” style weaponry has proliferated despite the ban.
11. Tried to stop AB962 (quietly, though).
12. Effectively killed a lot of cases against individual citizens. The DA decides to prosecute and the DOJ simply didn't show up to provide the testimony the DA needed for a conviction.
13. Note that the net effect of certain individuals leaving the BOF has been that it is now not a very political organization and is simply people doing the processing of paperwork, requests and the like according to regulations rather than trying to re-interpret to our disadvantage.

Meg Whitman launched a crusade to annihilate any gun sales and parts from EBay. She is an anti-gunner.

bwiese
10-29-2010, 4:15 PM
I guess if Meg was governor we wouldn't need Calguns to fight legislation anymore....hummm maybe that's why they are telling you to vote for JB???


Meg shill,

We just want a candidate that will likely veto bad gun laws.



The lawyers wouldn't want to be out of a job with Calguns now would they????

Listen, smartass... all the CA gun lawyers I know of seem to think JB has been highly rational and a breath of fresh air on gunrights issues.

BTW, sonny:

1. how many real live CA gun lawyers do you know?

2. didja know gun lawyers don't make much money on gun
matters and generally the gun lawyers have thriving other
practices that bring in the real dough?

Didn't think so.

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 4:20 PM
Wow, I can't believe, Sidewinder, that you just insulted Alan Gura, Don Kilmer, and Jason Davis, two of whom incorporated the Second Amendment (Alan and Don).

Alan doesn't live in California, he lives in Virginia. Don Kilmer lives in California, and so does Jason.

How dare you, Sidewinder, accuse them of being in this purely for the money. If that was the case they would have supported AB1934 and other forms of gun control purely to make money (they don't).

I demand that you apologize to Alan, Don, and Jason immediately, for tarring them with the brush that they are in it for the profit.

HowardW56
10-29-2010, 4:26 PM
It's funny that you guys need a "support group" after voting for JB. Shows us a lot!!!

I guess if Meg was governor we wouldn't need Calguns to fight legislation anymore....hummm maybe that's why they are telling you to vote for JB???

The lawyers wouldn't want to be out of a job with Calguns now would they????

159 Posts and you'll start insulting all of the people that have worked so hard to get as far as we have...

You are a _________ (fill in the blank, anything derogatory would be appropriate)

Biff...
10-29-2010, 4:31 PM
Well think about it this way, lets say JB wins, and prop 25 passes. We now have a perfect storn:

(Hard Lib governor, Easy pasage of future budges, and Hard Lib legisature hungry for new taxes)

God be with us.

bwiese
10-29-2010, 4:33 PM
Well think about it this way, lets say JB wins, and prop 25 passes. We now have a perfect storn:

(Hard Lib governor, Easy pasage of future budges, and Hard Lib legisature hungry for new taxes)



What does this have to do with gun rights?

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 4:39 PM
What does this have to do with gun rights?

QFT.

D.R.E.
10-29-2010, 4:42 PM
No offense intended to anyone effectively fighting the good fight.

Let's back off on that. We have some great CA NRA guys that I can 100% say work their arse off.
A big hats off to them and the CRPA lobbyst for killing wholesale the bad laws this year.

Remember that Fairfax, VA is 3000 miles away. Sometimes accurate information doesn't get that
far that fast - just like the home office in a commercial enterprise doesn't always 'get' what the
branch office is doing.

jamesob
10-29-2010, 4:44 PM
were doomed either way.

EGsimi
10-29-2010, 4:53 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but since you mentioned it...

LOS ANGELES -- A new poll shows strong support of Proposition 25 - the Nov. 2 ballot measure that would make it easier to pass a state budget - but many voters are undecided about another measure to halt California's landmark global warming law.

The Los Angeles Times/USC poll published Monday says 58 percent of likely voters support Proposition 25, which would change the two-thirds majority needed to pass a budget in the state Legislature to a simple majority.

Only 28 percent oppose it and 13 percent remain undecided.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/10/25/2131069/poll-voters-back-prop-25-undecided.html

People in this state make me crazy.

That makes me want to puke...

to keep things on topic, I am not a single issue voter, I do not think I can vote for Jerry even if he is good for gunners, but I wont vote for meg if she will hurt gunners... will have to see who else looks good...

AEC1
10-29-2010, 8:18 PM
I think that Meg and the E-bay thing are blown out of proportion. She was working for the share holders and made a business decision. That does not mean that she is anti gun, just pro share holders money.

Just like those that get on Fiorina for sending jobs overseas, her job was to maximise money for HP not CA.

Glock22Fan
10-29-2010, 8:28 PM
I think that Meg and the E-bay thing are blown out of proportion. She was working for the share holders and made a business decision. That does not mean that she is anti gun, just pro share holders money.

Just like those that get on Fiorina for sending jobs overseas, her job was to maximise money for HP not CA.

In the absence of any contrary evidence, we have to take what we have at face value. Now, if she had come out with a statement that said she was in favor of shall issue CCW's and against banning assault weapons, then we'd have something to go on and to put in opposition to her EBay actions. As it is, she's weakly negative, maybe worse.

hoffmang
10-29-2010, 8:59 PM
I think that Meg and the E-bay thing are blown out of proportion.

Meg Whitman could have easily said she was wrong on the gun issue at eBay or actually supported your argument.

She did not and in fact said she was for the AW laws as they exist now.

:gene:

-Gene

Chatterbox
10-29-2010, 9:04 PM
I know things are bad, but did you have to vote for Justin Bieber?

HowardW56
10-29-2010, 9:06 PM
I think that Meg and the E-bay thing are blown out of proportion. She was working for the share holders and made a business decision. That does not mean that she is anti gun, just pro share holders money.

Just like those that get on Fiorina for sending jobs overseas, her job was to maximise money for HP not CA.

I don't this your argument holds water.

If Meg were pro shareholders money, why wouldn't she want every transaction possible, including gun parts, or even complete firearms, subject to legal transfer... It would have all represented revenue for E-bay...

Fiorina did what she had to for the shareholders...

bsim
10-29-2010, 9:44 PM
Meg sez that the AWB ang handgun laws "...are appropriate for California.". That's enough for me to go "D"...

thayne
10-29-2010, 9:48 PM
Im voting for JB and I dont care if the state goes down in a burning ring of fire.

bsim
10-29-2010, 9:49 PM
Here's the cite - She also took positions on social issues that could make her the target of opposition from the conservative GOP grassroots.

Whitman said she supports abortion rights - including public funding for abortions - and believes tough gun laws like assault weapon bans and handgun control are appropriate for California. From SFGate here (http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-02-13/bay-area/17190174_1_sen-john-mccain-abortion-rights-budget-gap).

CCWFacts
10-29-2010, 10:04 PM
I have to say, I voted for Meg, but consider me sympathetic to and supportive of JB voters. JB was definitely the right choice for 2A issues. I just couldn't bring myself to vote for anyone with an SEIU endorsement.

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 10:33 PM
I have to say, I voted for Meg, but consider me sympathetic to and supportive of JB voters. JB was definitely the right choice for 2A issues. I just couldn't bring myself to vote for anyone with an SEIU endorsement.

Unfortunate, considering it was a very begrudging endorsement that was about keeping Meg out. Unfortunately for SEIU, they'll realize real quick that JB may be much worse for them than Meg ever could be.

MP301
10-29-2010, 11:11 PM
I agree, and my vote (for JB) should have arrived there by now.


It is funny, everyone trusts the "right people," you know, the "people in the know," the ones that work very closely with CRPA, NRA, DOJ and attorneys such as Gura, Davis and Kilmer, on just about every matter except this one.

Yeah, I think it's because of a couple of reasons.

There is so much hatred of JB by the older conservatives that are having a cow because they didnt like what he was about last time around. The other torches and pitchforks folks are those that would rather eat their own eyes then vote Democrat.

I had to take a reality pill and I decided to trust the opinions of those that have been right about other gun related matters so far. It wasnt easy voting Dem for the first time, but I am voting single issue as well and JB, in this case, is the least dangerous to 2a between our current choices.

Besides, Meg is far more dangerous then people give her credit for IMO.

Apocalypsenerd
10-30-2010, 12:22 AM
I am single issue voting for JB. I will say, in addition to the incredibly polarized debate this country is having, our CA gubernatorial election is one of the worst sets of choices I've had to make in a voting cycle.

BTW, any of you legal eagles know if the legislature with governor can shoot down Prop 13? I was under the impression that voter props couldn't be stopped by elected officials. JB is quoted as saying "There are no sacred cows", when talking about it. This concerns me as I am a home owner, and the county has been bleeding me pretty badly the last couple of years. It took 18 months, two tax cycles, to temporarily lower the value of my home.

cHaOs ReX
10-30-2010, 12:58 AM
The more I read this board the more I like it and respect it and want to be more involved.

bwiese
10-30-2010, 1:46 AM
I
BTW, any of you legal eagles know if the legislature with governor can shoot down Prop 13?

Prop 13 won't go. It would take another Prop 13 style initiative/ referendum to overturn it. Homeowners vote at a far higher rate than nonhomeowners and the politics would be brutal and unite usually unaligned and disparate groups.

Yeah, there'll always be attempts to bypass taxes with 'fees' to do this & that.

There is a desire by some to "keep Prop 13 residential" but instead make it non-applicable to nonresidential business properties (i.e, allow uncapped or differently-capped taxes). This is known as "split roll". But this just raises business costs, with predictable results. For this to happen, an initiative process would be required.

Honestly, many folks should be more concerned whether Feds renew the Bush tax cuts. That can involve a bigger swing on a bigger percentage;
property tax is at least deductible against state/local taxes. Other big concerns are whether or not the estate tax cap drops back down to $1Mil (that's just a home and a retirement account for many Californians), or is renewed to, say, a more rational 2009 level ($3.5 Mil).

cmaynes
10-30-2010, 2:35 AM
Really? You didn't see the D rating Brown received from the NRA...?

Congrats - You are now officially a contributor to our gun control issues in CA...

--------------

NRA has graded Whitman higher than Brown.

http://www.nrapvf.org/upcoming-elect...alifornia.aspx



According to the NRA this is what a D means

"D --- An anti-gun candidate who usually supports restrictive gun control legislation and opposes pro-gun reforms. Regardless of public statements, can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."

Has Bill W commented on this? Both Whitman and Brown made their stances on gun issues- please show through their ACTIONS how Brown is somehow a worse choice on gun control.

Meg said in her own words she thought gun owners were criminals- that says enough for me- and for someone who couldnt even be bothered to vote until for the first 40 years of their life I find their civic concern somewhat dishonest.

Apocalypsenerd
10-30-2010, 3:01 AM
bweise: Thanks for the reply. It makes me feel a bit safer

Not so worried about the Bush tax cuts as they won't have quite the same impact on me.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but at least part of the inheritance tax can be gotten around with a family trust. There are ways to beat the inheritance tax for the not-ultra rich.

bg
10-30-2010, 8:11 AM
I couldn't & didn't vote for either one.

FortCourageArmory
10-30-2010, 9:11 AM
It was difficult for a life-long conservative to mark the box for Jerry Brown. But, since I am in the gun business, I single-issue voted and chose Brown. I think Whittman would be a disaster for CA. Worse even than Arnie has been. Anyone want to thank me for voting for gun control? I laugh in your collective faces.

AEC1
10-30-2010, 9:26 AM
I don't this your argument holds water.

If Meg were pro shareholders money, why wouldn't she want every transaction possible, including gun parts, or even complete firearms, subject to legal transfer... It would have all represented revenue for E-bay...

Fiorina did what she had to for the shareholders...

I doubt the 35 cents per transaction would have covered the attorney fees she was expecting for all the law suits they were threatened with. Same principle we are hoping with our CCW plans, eventually it will be cheaper to just issue.

Glock22Fan
10-30-2010, 10:19 AM
I doubt the 35 cents per transaction would have covered the attorney fees she was expecting for all the law suits they were threatened with. Same principle we are hoping with our CCW plans, eventually it will be cheaper to just issue.

There would have been no liability whatsoever for many of the items that were banned. Can you imagine a prosecuter saying "But he would not have been able to commit this outrage except that the gun was holstered in a holster bought on EBay." No, she slapped gun owners collectively in the face by banning everything remotely connected with firearms. Maybe this avoids liability for selling magazines (a stretch, I've never heard of anyone being sued for selling a criminal a magazine) but all the rest of the paraphanalia? Come on.

Bizcuits
10-30-2010, 10:30 AM
I think that Meg and the E-bay thing are blown out of proportion. She was working for the share holders and made a business decision. That does not mean that she is anti gun, just pro share holders money.

Just like those that get on Fiorina for sending jobs overseas, her job was to maximise money for HP not CA.

So she isn't an emotionally driven woman, just a financially driven one...

So in other words it won't be another shooting spree that gets her to further gun laws, but just a campaign contribution from the Brady Bunch...

I feel SOO much better now.

Glock22Fan
10-30-2010, 10:33 AM
So she isn't an emotionally driven woman, just a financially driven one...

So in other words it won't be another shooting spree that gets her to further gun laws, but just a campaign contribution from the Brady Bunch...

I feel SOO much better now.

I'm pretty sure that emotions and finances were in alignment and she didn't need to give the matter any serious consideration whatsoever. Neither will she seriously consider vetoing anti-firearm bills.

CCWFacts
10-30-2010, 10:35 AM
Unfortunate, considering it was a very begrudging endorsement that was about keeping Meg out. Unfortunately for SEIU, they'll realize real quick that JB may be much worse for them than Meg ever could be.

Really? Maybe I should have voted for JB. I would like to see SEIU and friends kicked out of all of its gov't contracts in this state. They have taken one of the most economically powerful and productive places on earth and have turned us into a Greek-style pension / makework scam.

CorsicanRedneck
10-30-2010, 10:40 AM
Brown will always side with the west coast liberals. He'll sign any gun-control laws on his desk to please his base.
Whitman isn't a pro gun candidate, but there's a slight chance that she'll veto some gun-control laws. At least she doesn't have to please the San Francisco/Sacramento strong anti-gun base since they don't like her anyway.

... or vote for Chelene Nightingale

Sgt Raven
10-30-2010, 10:58 AM
Really? Maybe I should have voted for JB. I would like to see SEIU and friends kicked out of all of its gov't contracts in this state. They have taken one of the most economically powerful and productive places on earth and have turned us into a Greek-style pension / makework scam.

On lobbyists – "If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and then vote against them, you have no business being up here."Jesse M. Unruh
There's a lot of things I don't like about Unruh, but he got this part right. ;)

383green
10-30-2010, 5:24 PM
Brown will always side with the west coast liberals. He'll sign any gun-control laws on his desk to please his base.

Can you name a single anti-gun law that Brown signed during his tenure any any office? If he's as anti-gun as you say, then it should be quite easy to compose a list of them, given his long career and previous tenure in the Governor's seat.


Whitman isn't a pro gun candidate, but there's a slight chance that she'll veto some gun-control laws.

What evidence do you have that leads you to believe this? I've only seen anti-gun comments and actions from her.


... or vote for Chelene Nightingale

Her personal visit to CGN leads me to question her honesty and competence, and she has no chance of getting a statistically significant number of votes in this election.

I'm voting for Brown on Tuesday, based on the recommendations of people with a proven track record in making real pro-gun progress.

Glock22Fan
10-30-2010, 5:29 PM
Brown will always side with the west coast liberals. He'll sign any gun-control laws on his desk to please his base.
Whitman isn't a pro gun candidate, but there's a slight chance that she'll veto some gun-control laws. At least she doesn't have to please the San Francisco/Sacramento strong anti-gun base since they don't like her anyway.

... or vote for Chelene Nightingale

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, unfortunately, but my opinion is that you are totally wrong in every respect except one (Whitman isn't pro-gun).

Why do you think, at his age, that JB cares much about what his base thinks? Do you think that upsetting his base is going to shorten his political career? He's already gone against his base in his capacity as A.G. Do you really think that the amicae brief was what S.F wanted? or getting rid of Iggie, Alison et al?

And voting for Nightingale? You really must be joking (or on Jenkem).

wellerjohn
10-30-2010, 5:57 PM
Im voting for JB and I dont care if the state goes down in a burning ring of fire.

It more than likely will:mad:

ke6guj
10-30-2010, 6:12 PM
There is a desire by some to "keep Prop 13 residential" but instead make it non-applicable to nonresidential business properties (i.e, allow uncapped or differently-capped taxes). This is known as "split roll". But this just raises business costs, with predictable results. For this to happen, an initiative process would be required.

but at some point, "fairness" may require it be done. I've heard that some companies have put real estate properties into shell corps, which have no assets except the property itself. So, the property got appraised at 1 millon dollar back in 1980 and it has a property tax of $10,000 (WAG, just an example). In the last 30 years, the value of the property is now 10 millon, and if it was sold, the new buyer would be paying prop taxes on that 10 million $100,000 per year. But instead, the buyer of the property buys the corporation that owns the property for $10million. In that case, ownership of the property never changes hands, so the tax bill is still ~$10,000, based on the appraised vallueof the property still in the 1 million dollar range.

So, these expensive properties never get reappraised at current market pricing when sold like residential property does, meaning that large corporate properties are undertaxed compared to homeowners. But maybe that is a good thing if it makes corporate property more attractive due to lower tax rates in an otherwise tax-hostile state.

1911 Fan
10-30-2010, 7:34 PM
I voted other because I will not compromise my principals for the lesser of evils. That is how we got where we are now in kali.The current rep and dem candidates are cookie cutter politicians and time will prove this in my opinion.One of them will be the next governor soon then we can all continue complaining about big government and life as we know it in kali continues.

Big Dog Howie
10-30-2010, 8:23 PM
Really? guess you guys never read this from San Francisco chronicle

Killings unlikely to ease way for weapons ban
March 27, 2009|By John Wildermuth, Chronicle Staff Writer




Here is the last part of the article

A national assault weapons ban would have no direct effect on California, which already has the nation's toughest rules on the weapons. But law enforcement authorities say a nationwide law would keep California criminals from crossing the border into neighboring states where the high-powered weapons can be purchased legally.

"It would bolster California's gun laws if the federal government adopted legislation similar to what California has enacted," said state Attorney General Jerry Brown.


I will vote other.

bwiese
10-30-2010, 10:45 PM
Re
"It would bolster California's gun laws if the federal government adopted legislation similar to what California has enacted," said state Attorney General Jerry Brown.

And he's absolutely right.

That statement above could have been made by a pro-gun or antigun individual and was entirely neutral.

If indeed we had a Fed AW ban way worse than the 94 ban, do you think we would have OLLs here?

SideWinder11
10-30-2010, 11:44 PM
It was difficult for a life-long conservative to mark the box for Jerry Brown. But, since I am in the gun business, I single-issue voted and chose Brown. I think Whittman would be a disaster for CA. Worse even than Arnie has been. Anyone want to thank me for voting for gun control? I laugh in your collective faces.

You just lost a customer for life.

bwiese
10-31-2010, 12:27 AM
You just lost a customer for life.

Tim, I'll make up for this loser.

Some people just don't get it.

SideWinder11
10-31-2010, 12:30 AM
It's only like a 5 hour drive. I am sure you'll keep your word, just like JB huh

bwiese
10-31-2010, 12:35 AM
It's only like a 5 hour drive. I am sure you'll keep your word, just like JB huh

Mailorder works jes fine, sonny.

Anchors
10-31-2010, 12:49 AM
1. Divison of Firearms was reduced to a bureau – meaning there is staffing to handle harassing bad guys but not normal law-abiding citizens.
2. Iggy Chin and Randy Rossi were sent packing.
3. Allison Merrilees found it better to work elsewhere.
4. The DOJ Bureau of Firearms has not lobbied for gun control.
5. Brown seems to have discouraged the legislature from passing more restrictions.
6. “Permanence” rule-making is gone.
7. Brown filed the amicus in support of McDonald.
8. Brown killed an anti-gun brief which was headed out the door for Heller.
9. He may have been instrumental in arranging for microstamping to die
10. New regulations seem to have been killed during his AG tenure. Note that OLL's and bullet buttons mean that “AW” style weaponry has proliferated despite the ban.
11. Tried to stop AB962 (quietly, though).
12. Effectively killed a lot of cases against individual citizens. The DA decides to prosecute and the DOJ simply didn't show up to provide the testimony the DA needed for a conviction.
13. Note that the net effect of certain individuals leaving the BOF has been that it is now not a very political organization and is simply people doing the processing of paperwork, requests and the like according to regulations rather than trying to re-interpret to our disadvantage.

Meg Whitman launched a crusade to annihilate any gun sales and parts from EBay. She is an anti-gunner.

This.

It's only like a 5 hour drive. I am sure you'll keep your word, just like JB huh

You are entitled to your opinions, but becoming petty with some of CG's most senior members after a hundred or so posts is kind of insulting to them. Just saying.



Off Topic: I thought prop 25 says that taxes can still only be raised with a 2/3 vote?
Not that I support it anyway, just getting the facts straight.
It wouldn't make it easier to RAISE taxes. It would just make it easier for our incompetent state government to WASTE tax money.

This is how I read it anyway.

Anchors
10-31-2010, 12:53 AM
gun lawyers don't make much money on gun
matters and generally the gun lawyers have thriving other
practices that bring in the real dough?.

And this. Do you really think all the minor contributions from CalGuns members even come close to the salary of a partner or senior attorney in a corporate or criminal law firm?
They don't.

Source: Grand mother was a corporate lawyer in Washington D.C. for 25+ years and made millions.

bwiese
10-31-2010, 1:01 AM
And this. Do you really think all the minor contributions from CalGuns members even come close to the salary of a partner or senior attorney in a corporate or criminal law firm?
They don't.


Yep, you'll notice that the gun lawyers working with the California Coalition all have thriving non-gun practices as well. Chuck Michel's firm has wide expertise in "big" environmental law, Don Kilmer has a thriving family law practice, and Jason Davis does other work besides gun law as well.

Gun law is a labor of love. I shouldn't even open my mouth and can in no way speak for them, but I'd bet the NRA fees paid to Chuck Michel's firm don't approach covering a lotta work his team does, and yet work still gets done. I know other gun lawyers spend unbilled time when they can helping out as well.

PEBKAC
10-31-2010, 1:04 AM
Off Topic: I thought prop 25 says that taxes can still only be raised with a 2/3 vote?
Not that I support it anyway, just getting the facts straight.
It wouldn't make it easier to RAISE taxes. It would just make it easier for our incompetent state government to WASTE tax money.

This is how I read it anyway.
I could be wrong (and I often am) but it seemed to me that the main problem was things attached to a budget by virtue of being "related to the budget" were only in need of a 50% + 1 vote. And how exactly something becomes "related to the budget" was less than defined in the law as was printed in the election guide mailed to me...

Someone stop me if I'm off base here.

Anchors
10-31-2010, 1:05 AM
Yep, you'll notice that the gun lawyers working with the California Coalition all have thriving non-gun practices as well. Chuck Michel's firm has wide expertise in "big" environmental law, Don Kilmer has a thriving family law practice, and Jason Davis does other work besides gun law as well.

Gun law is a labor of love. I shouldn't even open my mouth and can in no way speak for them, but I'd bet the NRA fees paid to Chuck Michel's firm don't approach covering a lotta work his team does, and yet work still gets done. I know other gun lawyers spend unbilled time when they can helping out as well.

I mean, just look at the amount of questions Gene has answered here on CalGuns. Time is money and that time is no different.

Gun lawyers aren't in it for the cash. They're just firearms enthusiasts like us who actually have a means to do something about a situation they see as unjust.

bwiese
10-31-2010, 1:08 AM
I mean, just look at the amount of questions Gene has answered here on CalGuns. Time is money and that time is no different.

Gene is not a lawyer - Gene hires lawyers.
He's a CEO of Vindicia.

richzmn
10-31-2010, 1:39 AM
Jerry Brown will vote against guns when the time is right. Brown is a liar. Kiss your AR's and AK's goodbye. Brown, Boxer, Harris = CA screwed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wXX1MmazDU

bwiese
10-31-2010, 2:10 AM
Jerry Brown will vote against guns when the time is right. Brown is a liar. Kiss your AR's and AK's goodbye. Brown, Boxer, Harris = CA screwed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wXX1MmazDU

Actually you have ARs and AKs in CA *because* of Brown.

Or rather, we spent a lot less in legal fees maintaining our correct legal position.

Many of us who understand some of Brown's history with guns are far more confident he'll veto a bad gun bill than the documented antigun eMeg will.

PEBKAC
10-31-2010, 2:29 AM
Jerry Brown will vote against guns when the time is right. Brown is a liar. Kiss your AR's and AK's goodbye. Brown, Boxer, Harris = CA screwed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wXX1MmazDU
Short answer:
I will introduce you to the one statement that destroys your entire argument given the evidence provided:

"Talk is cheap."

Remember, we are dealing with politics. Also bear in mind that no gubernatorial candidate thus far has been honest.

Long answer:
The evidence you have introduced has entirely rested upon the fact that Brown has "said X" or "said Y" and there are contradictions to be found given an analysis of X or Y. Show me hard evidence in actions Brown has taken with regards to the 2nd Amendment and maybe, just maybe, your argument will hold water. Until that point, it simply does not hold water.

Very long answer:
Your entire argument that somehow Brown is some kind of anti-christ compared to all other politicians given his lying based on his words is on somewhat shaky ground to begin with. Consider that, if we, as you suggest, consider lying to be a moral wrong in and of itself (due to the fact that the only evidence entered thus far is evidence of Brown lying) and thus someone doing so is deserving of our ire and more importantly, not our vote, then we must consider what this implies. If we are to assume that lying is a moral wrong in and of itself, we must assume working in a non-consequentialist ethical framework. IE, all acts, regardless of context and consequences, are interpreted the same regardless of all else (see Kant et al.). Hence, a lie is a lie, and is equally reprehensible regardless of context or consequences. The problem becomes that, given this, all the current candidates running for the office of Governor of California are equally guilty of lying (see: campaign promises for ~all~ candidates), and thus all equally deserving of our ire. However, it should be pointed out that, given this model, pointing to specific results of said lying is irrelevant due to the fac that, as mentioned before, consequences of the act are unimportant and thus simply providing evidence that Brown has lied in the past in no way indicts him as being a threat to the 2nd Amendment, it simply indicts him as a liar.

If you wish to link the infringement of the 2nd Amendment to lying you must rely on the consequentialist ethical model which, as the name implies, relies on consequences (and thus by implication context) of an action to determine how one should view it morally. Hence the evidence that must be furnished for your argument to hold is the following: Brown lied and as a result our 2nd Amendment rights in some way were infringed upon. The problem I think you will run into however is finding evidence that Brown is actually anti-2nd amendment, either spoken or based on his actions (especially when there is already a set of actions pointing the other way, and talk is cheap). You will find the NRA rating...which is based on what exactly? I have yet to find a detailed analysis of how exactly they came up with it. You will also find a lot of opinions, which are based on what exactly?

Bottom line: Put in the work to actually back up your argument if you want it to fly.

tvfreakarms
10-31-2010, 3:03 AM
If i'm not mistaken meg is for pro gun control. JB is the way to go. Although i'm an independent, my vote is going to be so far JB and carly (who is pro guns).

Jerry brown was by far the worst gov. the state of Ca has ever had if and when he gets elected say hello to more gun control laws

tvfreakarms
10-31-2010, 3:07 AM
Let's face it whether right or left, it's all BS. Hell Governator was crap. So, else is pro guns? Any ideas who to vote for? How about sheriff? Scott or Jim?

tvfreakarms
10-31-2010, 3:14 AM
I've read she meg is anti gun. I bet she is more anti gun than brown.
For senate I've read that carly is pro guns, but of her chance of beating boxer seems slim. It's kind of close but carly is going to need some help. She only has about 3 days left. Last time i read she is about 8points back.

I think that Meg and the E-bay thing are blown out of proportion. She was working for the share holders and made a business decision. That does not mean that she is anti gun, just pro share holders money.

Just like those that get on Fiorina for sending jobs overseas, her job was to maximise money for HP not CA.

phil conrad
10-31-2010, 7:51 AM
For me the main reason is that Meg sets my internal "creep o meter" off. There is some thing about her that makes my skin crawl.

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 8:24 AM
Can you name a single anti-gun law that Brown signed during his tenure any any office? If he's as anti-gun as you say, then it should be quite easy to compose a list of them, given his long career and previous tenure in the Governor's seat.

Yeah! CA got so much gun-friendly during his tenure in any office! He's such a great gun advocate... oh wait. Where's his A++ rating from the NRA or his pro-gun record. :rolleyes:

What evidence do you have that leads you to believe this? I've only seen anti-gun comments and actions from her.

Hmm... I did say that I'll vote for Nightingale, did I? I have no evidence of this and will not defend her. I'm saying that there's a "slight" chance she would not anger her base (conservatives) by going after guns. But don't worry, I ain't voting for her.

Her personal visit to CGN leads me to question her honesty and competence, and she has no chance of getting a statistically significant number of votes in this election.

What evidence do you have that leads you to believe this? I've only seen pro-gun comments and actions from her.
Seriously, it's funny that you question a gun owner and shooter on her pro-gun stance but are willing to trust someone who never did anything for gun owners in CA.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, unfortunately, but my opinion is that you are totally wrong in every respect except one (Whitman isn't pro-gun).

Why do you think, at his age, that JB cares much about what his base thinks? Do you think that upsetting his base is going to shorten his political career? He's already gone against his base in his capacity as A.G. Do you really think that the amicae brief was what S.F wanted? or getting rid of Iggie, Alison et al?

Please, enlighten us on Brown's extensive pro-gun record...

And voting for Nightingale? You really must be joking (or on Jenkem).

Funny that the only real pro-gun candidate that CA had in a very long time is being questioned by gun owners. Joking? Do you have a joke to share about Nightingale? I'll be glad to hear it.

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 8:44 AM
To 383green:

Brown did put an political commercial up in support of banning .50 cal in CA. He successfully campaigned againt the .50 BMG rifles calling them "Assault Weapons". Now tell me again. How pro-gun is Brown?

383green
10-31-2010, 8:57 AM
Yeah! CA got so much gun-friendly during his tenure in any office! He's such a great gun advocate... oh wait. Where's his A++ rating from the NRA or his pro-gun record. :rolleyes:

You evaded the question. Can you name a single anti-gun action that he has ever taken in his entire career? Many pro-gun actions have been listed here already.



Hmm... I did say that I'll vote for Nightingale, did I? I have no evidence of this and will not defend her. I'm saying that there's a "slight" chance she would not anger her base (conservatives) by going after guns. But don't worry, I ain't voting for her.

I still see no evidence that leads me to believe this "slight" chance exists. Her actions as eBay's CEO and her campaign statements appear to be uniformly anti-gun to me.




What evidence do you have that leads you to believe this?

Here is her initial personal visit to CGN (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=255936). She and/or her out-of-control campaign staff created multiple shill accounts here, and then lied about it when caught. This leads me to doubt her honesty and/or her ability to control her campaign staff (i.e., her competence). Her tirade also stinks of angry, ignorant ranting to me. This leads me to question her sanity.


I've only seen pro-gun comments and actions from her.
Seriously, it's funny that you question a gun owner and shooter on her pro-gun stance

I did not question her on her pro-gun stance. I questioned her on her honesty, competence and sanity.

but are willing to trust someone who never did anything for gun owners in CA.

This is a false statement.


Please, enlighten us on Brown's extensive pro-gun record...

That has already been disclosed in this thread:

1. Divison of Firearms was reduced to a bureau – meaning there is staffing to handle harassing bad guys but not normal law-abiding citizens.
2. Iggy Chin and Randy Rossi were sent packing.
3. Allison Merrilees found it better to work elsewhere.
4. The DOJ Bureau of Firearms has not lobbied for gun control.
5. Brown seems to have discouraged the legislature from passing more restrictions.
6. “Permanence” rule-making is gone.
7. Brown filed the amicus in support of McDonald.
8. Brown killed an anti-gun brief which was headed out the door for Heller.
9. He may have been instrumental in arranging for microstamping to die
10. New regulations seem to have been killed during his AG tenure. Note that OLL's and bullet buttons mean that “AW” style weaponry has proliferated despite the ban.
11. Tried to stop AB962 (quietly, though).
12. Effectively killed a lot of cases against individual citizens. The DA decides to prosecute and the DOJ simply didn't show up to provide the testimony the DA needed for a conviction.
13. Note that the net effect of certain individuals leaving the BOF has been that it is now not a very political organization and is simply people doing the processing of paperwork, requests and the like according to regulations rather than trying to re-interpret to our disadvantage.

383green
10-31-2010, 9:02 AM
To 383green:

Brown did put an political commercial up in support of banning .50 cal in CA. He successfully campaigned againt the .50 BMG rifles calling them "Assault Weapons". Now tell me again. How pro-gun is Brown?

That bothers me, too. But it comes down to this: one of two people will be sitting in the Governor's chair next term, and he is the most pro-gun of those two people by far. I do no claim to like the guy; I just plan to hold my nose and vote for him in this election as the most pro-gun candidate that has any chance of sitting in the Governor's seat in this specific election.

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 9:11 AM
That bothers me, too. But it comes down to this: one of two people will be sitting in the Governor's chair next term, and he is the most pro-gun of those two people by far. I do no claim to like the guy; I just plan to hold my nose and vote for him in this election as the most pro-gun candidate that has any chance of sitting in the Governor's seat in this specific election.

This is not what you said in your previous post. You asked me to provide evidence of Brown anti-gun stance. So there it is, and there are a lot more. He's anti-gun, period. Meg's no pro-gun neither.

You're still trashing the only pro-gun candidate. I give you that she won't win. But this time, I'm not playing politics between the two usual suspects, I'm voting my conscience as a true fierce pro-gun citizen. I'm voting against 2 anti-gun people and for the ONLY pro-gun one (who won't get elected, I know).

Dr Rockso
10-31-2010, 9:25 AM
To 383green:

Brown did put an political commercial up in support of banning .50 cal in CA. He successfully campaigned againt the .50 BMG rifles calling them "Assault Weapons". Now tell me again. How pro-gun is Brown?

Remember that Poochigan brought the issue up against the advice of friendly parties...Brown was still wrong to run with it, but Pooch should have known better than to bring it up in this state. Also Arnold shouldn't have signed it, but there ya go. No doubt Meg would do the same.


By the way, it's also important to point out that AB50 was ~2004 and Brown vs. Poochigan for AG was 2006. You really can't blame Jerry's ads for something that had passed the legislature 2 years prior.

383green
10-31-2010, 9:29 AM
This is not what you said in your previous post. You asked me to provide evidence of Brown anti-gun stance. So there it is, and there are a lot more. He's anti-gun, period.

Given that he has also (quietly) done numerous pro-gun things, I can't see how he could possibly be "anti-gun, period". If he's truly entirely anti-gun, then he's not very good at it.


You're still trashing the only pro-gun candidate. I give you that she won't win. But this time, I'm not playing politics between the two usual suspects, I'm voting my conscience as a true fierce pro-gun citizen. I'm voting against 2 anti-gun people and for the ONLY pro-gun one (who won't get elected, I know).

You're vote will simply make a statement which will have no actual effect, and won't even be noticed by anybody outside this forum and your personal acquaintances. I believe that I will be more effective as a pro-gun activist if I confine my ineffective statements to forums like this one, and use my vote to help get the more pro-gun (or at least less anti-gun) candidate into the Governor's seat for the next term. If Nightengale had any chance of winning the election then I would consider voting for her, but in this election Meg appears to be much more anti-gun than Brown to me, and I don't believe that Chelene will get enough votes to even be noticed outside small communities like this one.

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 9:50 AM
Well, I'm gonna leave it at that. I know that Brown will win in this state. I know that yall CA gun owners will have to deal with the consequences and will be (justifiably) pissed off at the next Governor like we all are with Arnold. I'll just be able to say that I didn't vote for that guy when CA laws will get even worse than what they are now.
Yall have fun with Brown.

trashman
10-31-2010, 12:12 PM
It's only like a 5 hour drive. I am sure you'll keep your word, just like JB huh

Don't worry about Bill -- I travel to SoCal frequently and buy guns down there too. I'll be sure to throw some dollars towards FCA to offset your temper tantrum :p

--Neill

1911 Fan
10-31-2010, 12:20 PM
Don't worry guys....jb be elected gov and we can continue to belly ache about kali.

bwiese
10-31-2010, 12:24 PM
Remember that Poochigan brought the issue up against the advice of friendly parties...Brown was still wrong to run with it, but Pooch should have known better than to bring it up in this state.

Correct.


By the way, it's also important to point out that AB50 was ~2004 and Brown vs. Poochigan for AG was 2006. You really can't blame Jerry's ads for something that had passed the legislature 2 years prior.

Yeah, Pooch threw him the interception - after some folks close to NRA told him to not even bring up the issue and Brown could use it for points without throwing out proposals for new laws.

Pooch screwed the pooch on that. I wish candidates that really want to act like they're friends would have the IQ to STFU at the right time.

I'll gladly take Brown's work at DOJ and his jumping up & down for a 50bmg ban passed by his predecessors and which was legislation he had zero part, participation or counsel in.

And of all the bans the 50BMG is the easiest to get around. I'm far more glad that Brown killed microstamping and stopped bad regulation which in turn allowed 300,000+ OLLs to come into CA - that's somewhere near half a billion in new California gun biz (if you count assoc. ammo & optics purchases, range time, etc.)

Glock22Fan
10-31-2010, 12:30 PM
Don't worry guys....jb be elected gov and we can continue to belly ache about kali.

If Charlton Heston was alive and governor, there'd still be things to belly ache about California.

tvfreakarms
10-31-2010, 2:50 PM
So that's one thing you provided. The .50bmg. Let's face it most of use if it was not banned couldn't afford the gun itself and let alone the ammo. Not a huge deal breaker for me. For me it's just a cool factor but i would never pay for the 50 bmg. Even if i could i may only shot the damn thing once in a blue moon.
At least he's not going around trying to ban online ammo sales, limiting how many ammos you can purchased, the id bullet tag and what not. To me that's more important than he wanted the .50bmg banned. Which do you prefer him not banning the .50 which most people couldn't afford or him trying to ban everything from certain type of pistols to the AR15's????
I wish i had the article that said meg is anti gun. I read that in the bee paper a while ago. Let's put it this way she will most likely sign more bills that would hurt Law abiding gun owners than brown will .
How about the govenator??? He sign a couple of bills that we can't buy online pistol ammo coming FEB 2011. Now imagine Meg who admitted that she is anti gun!!! Hell we only have to 2 choices and it's obvious who we should pick come tuesday for us law abiding gun owners.

This is not what you said in your previous post. You asked me to provide evidence of Brown anti-gun stance. So there it is, and there are a lot more. He's anti-gun, period. Meg's no pro-gun neither.

You're still trashing the only pro-gun candidate. I give you that she won't win. But this time, I'm not playing politics between the two usual suspects, I'm voting my conscience as a true fierce pro-gun citizen. I'm voting against 2 anti-gun people and for the ONLY pro-gun one (who won't get elected, I know).

tvfreakarms
10-31-2010, 2:56 PM
LOL agreed. It's california and we will always have and ache when it comes to guns. Let's face it if your a pro gun candidate, you have to be careful because you will never have a chance becoming governor if you talk about pro gun in cali. You have to be sneaky about it and tread carefully.

If Charlton Heston was alive and governor, there'd still be things to belly ache about California.

Sgt Raven
10-31-2010, 3:28 PM
If Charlton Heston was alive and governor, there'd still be things to belly ache about California.

There were quotes from Heston in favor of the AWB too. :rolleyes:

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 3:53 PM
So that's one thing you provided. The .50bmg. Let's face it most of use if it was not banned couldn't afford the gun itself and let alone the ammo. Not a huge deal breaker for me. For me it's just a cool factor but i would never pay for the 50 bmg. Even if i could i may only shot the damn thing once in a blue moon.
At least he's not going around trying to ban online ammo sales, limiting how many ammos you can purchased, the id bullet tag and what not. To me that's more important than he wanted the .50bmg banned. Which do you prefer him not banning the .50 which most people couldn't afford or him trying to ban everything from certain type of pistols to the AR15's????
I wish i had the article that said meg is anti gun. I read that in the bee paper a while ago. Let's put it this way she will most likely sign more bills that would hurt Law abiding gun owners than brown will .
How about the govenator??? He sign a couple of bills that we can't buy online pistol ammo coming FEB 2011. Now imagine Meg who admitted that she is anti gun!!! Hell we only have to 2 choices and it's obvious who we should pick come tuesday for us law abiding gun owners.

Sure, if the point is "that guy is cool because he won't ban everything", it's still not acceptable for the 2A. Like I said, I don't like both of them. No matter who you think is more anti-gun than the other, personally I'm not gonna vote for an anti-gun politician and will surely not cheer on a gun advocate board for any of them. That was my original point. Why so many gun owners are going "Go Jerry!" just to get screwed for the next few years.

But if you really think that CA will turn into a gun-friendly state with Brown, by all mean, go for him. But if you think that, you probably didn't wait for Prop 19 to pass... ;)

Meplat
10-31-2010, 4:12 PM
Gene is not a lawyer - Gene hires lawyers.
He's a CEO of Vindicia.

Has anyone told him yet?:D

gbp
10-31-2010, 4:26 PM
Meg Whitman could have easily said she was wrong on the gun issue at eBay or actually supported your argument.

She did not and in fact said she was for the AW laws as they exist now.

:gene:

-Gene

give me one instance, and quote it where brown has done this himself and i may rethink my position

gbp
10-31-2010, 4:28 PM
why is it that this thread is beginning to sound like 'buyers remorse"

383green
10-31-2010, 4:32 PM
give me one instance, and quote it where brown has done this himself and i may rethink my position

His amicus brief in McDonald (http://www.alicemariebeard.com/law/Amicus_for_Cert_CA_AG.pdf).


why is it that this thread is beginning to sound like 'buyers remorse"

I don't get that impression at all. His supporters in this thread have provided evidence of actual meaningful pro-gun actions that he has taken. His detractors keep saying he's anti-gun, then dodging the question when asked for evidence of actual meaningful anti-gun actions that he has taken.

KylaGWolf
10-31-2010, 5:07 PM
Really? You didn't see the D rating Brown received from the NRA...?

Congrats - You are now officially a contributor to our gun control issues in CA...

--------------

NRA has graded Whitman higher than Brown.

http://www.nrapvf.org/upcoming-elect...alifornia.aspx



According to the NRA this is what a D means

"D --- An anti-gun candidate who usually supports restrictive gun control legislation and opposes pro-gun reforms. Regardless of public statements, can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."

Actually they don't have any rating for Meg. And considering the fact she has outright admitted she is not a fan of 2A that alone would not give her my vote. Not to mention the immigration issue and the whole not bothering to vote for 28 years and then want to run our state. Oh and lets not forget she let go 10% of that staff from Ebay when it was cutting in to her paycheck. Sorry no matter how you slice it Meg is not a decent choice. Now the fact that I am not crazy about Brown either but he has done things that have been 2A friendly which makes me giggle when I see Browns NRA rating. Oh and before you claim I am a liberal I very conservative actually.

KylaGWolf
10-31-2010, 5:13 PM
So is this the group I can think if my tax money goes to sending illegal immigrants to college? :chris:



That is business, not politics and it's a weak excuse at best to use that as an indication of how she'll legislate on behalf of herself and the people of California. Next you'll be telling me every gun shop that has a "no sales to California" sign in their Gun Broker ad is an anti-gunner. It is called business.

No but she has out and out said she has no problem with funding for illegal immigrants to get medical and education benefits. Oh how about the fact she KNEW she had an illegal immigrant in her employ and did nothing. Oh and the republicans also have spent money on giving money to illegals. Both sides are just as dirty for that one. Unfortunately I don't think that is going to change anytime soon unless we can get people in the state house and senate that actually have brains and balls to stand up and say enough.

KylaGWolf
10-31-2010, 6:28 PM
Sure, if the point is "that guy is cool because he won't ban everything", it's still not acceptable for the 2A. Like I said, I don't like both of them. No matter who you think is more anti-gun than the other, personally I'm not gonna vote for an anti-gun politician and will surely not cheer on a gun advocate board for any of them. That was my original point. Why so many gun owners are going "Go Jerry!" just to get screwed for the next few years.

But if you really think that CA will turn into a gun-friendly state with Brown, by all mean, go for him. But if you think that, you probably didn't wait for Prop 19 to pass... ;)

I am beginning to think your a TROLL. You have no clue of what you are speaking of. Yes I will agree Brown has his issues. One of which is the whole "global warming thing" that being said when it comes to my 2A rights I stand a better chance of seeing more freedom with Brown than I ever would with Whitman. You say that with Chelene would be better off only if you want a raving lunatic in charge. I have met her in person and can say the only thing she had me thinking was she would make a great oily used car salesperson because she seemed that fake.

Um nope I am very anti Prop 19 actually. One I am deadly allergic to the stuff. Second I saw way too many kids get their lives screwed up due to the stuff when I worked in juvenile probation. Three I don't want someone smoking a joint then getting behind the wheel of a car. Then again I don't want someone to get behind the wheel of a car after drinking either. But I am still voting for Jerry Brown.

Anchors
10-31-2010, 7:42 PM
Gene is not a lawyer - Gene hires lawyers.
He's a CEO of Vindicia.

Oh. Haha.

CorsicanRedneck
10-31-2010, 8:42 PM
I am beginning to think your a TROLL. You have no clue of what you are speaking of. Yes I will agree Brown has his issues. One of which is the whole "global warming thing" that being said when it comes to my 2A rights I stand a better chance of seeing more freedom with Brown than I ever would with Whitman. You say that with Chelene would be better off only if you want a raving lunatic in charge. I have met her in person and can say the only thing she had me thinking was she would make a great oily used car salesperson because she seemed that fake.

Typical. I don't agree with you on one thing, then the logical explanation is that I must be a troll and surely don't know anything. Seriously, who's the lunatic here? Contrary to you, Sir, I never implied that only I hold the truth and others must be trolls... :rolleyes:

I start to understand better why CA is in such a mess.

383green
10-31-2010, 8:44 PM
I start to understand better why CA is in such a mess.

It's in such a mess because people vote based on emotion rather than logic, and ignore hard evidence that is contrary to what they want to believe.

Meplat
10-31-2010, 8:58 PM
Typical. I don't agree with you on one thing, then the logical explanation is that I must be a troll and surely don't know anything. Seriously, who's the lunatic here? Contrary to you, Sir, I never implied that only I hold the truth and others must be trolls... :rolleyes:

I start to understand better why CA is in such a mess.

Um... I don't think Kyla is a sir.;)

sac-gunslinger
10-31-2010, 9:05 PM
Brown proved his 2nd Amendment chops when he filed the brief in support of the suit that resulted in a positive statement of the meaning of the amendment, a brief he personally wrote. Meg continues to waffle on 2nd Amendment to this very minute. NRA seems perplexed during this election cycle, I rely on the CGF for Kalifornia issues.

Interesting comparison between Meg's campaign promises and Ahnolds from seven years ago, they're the same statements.

Brown is the first (hopefully last) Democrat I have voted for in 42 years of voting. Meg would be completely ineffective against the legislature although I personally believe no one will be able to effectively overcome the failure built into Kalifornia's government at this point. Vote for Brown and get your food storage supplies in order.

hoffmang
10-31-2010, 9:31 PM
give me one instance, and quote it where brown has done this himself and i may rethink my position

He wrote me a letter, an important letter (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/oal/OAL-280-Suspension-Notice-2007-09-21-w-Attachments.pdf). In that letter he basically ended the battle against bullet buttons. Should I relate all the other things he's done for our cause? Do you know who Don Kates is? If not, then you need to do some research into who you owe the Second Amendment to. Mr. Kates vouches for Mr. Brown. It's kind of like Martin Luther King vouching for a Southern Governor in the 1960's...

-Gene

Meplat
10-31-2010, 9:52 PM
Kyla, that info is out of date. She was unrated when the magazine came out but they have since given her a C+ on the web sight. Now, she has no voting record and the grade does not have a Q after it to indicate it was determined by Questioner. Hummmm......... I wonder how they got there? It sure could not have been the process they outline on the web site. I fear; "Their words smell of miso and the truth is not in them." (old Japanese saying)

NRA trips on it's own feet again. What else is new?


Actually they don't have any rating for Meg. And considering the fact she has outright admitted she is not a fan of 2A that alone would not give her my vote. Not to mention the immigration issue and the whole not bothering to vote for 28 years and then want to run our state. Oh and lets not forget she let go 10% of that staff from Ebay when it was cutting in to her paycheck. Sorry no matter how you slice it Meg is not a decent choice. Now the fact that I am not crazy about Brown either but he has done things that have been 2A friendly which makes me giggle when I see Browns NRA rating. Oh and before you claim I am a liberal I very conservative actually.

grandpasmokey
10-31-2010, 10:17 PM
I may be starting a firestorm here but didn't any of you see any other options on your ballots? I don't like JB's politics, I don't trust MW so I voted for someone else. I'd rather vote for something I like and not get it than vote for something I don't want and get it. When will we break this 2 party bi-opoly?

Baconator
10-31-2010, 10:20 PM
I basically looked at this election as "would you rather die by lethal injection or electric chair." No good choice. It's not gonna matter how pro gun Jerry Brown is if I don't have any money to spend on guns because of taxes. This state is done.

tvfreakarms
11-01-2010, 12:02 AM
first of all i'm yes on 19 and cali will never be a gun friendly state. That's a fact. So the next best thing we can hope for is someone that is semi anti gun on certain things. Seriously, I don't know if you live here or not, I would rather have someone that is some what gun friendly than someone like say boxer who is very anti gun.

Sure, if the point is "that guy is cool because he won't ban everything", it's still not acceptable for the 2A. Like I said, I don't like both of them. No matter who you think is more anti-gun than the other, personally I'm not gonna vote for an anti-gun politician and will surely not cheer on a gun advocate board for any of them. That was my original point. Why so many gun owners are going "Go Jerry!" just to get screwed for the next few years.

But if you really think that CA will turn into a gun-friendly state with Brown, by all mean, go for him. But if you think that, you probably didn't wait for Prop 19 to pass... ;)

tvfreakarms
11-01-2010, 12:06 AM
I assume the only reason why he got a crappy rating is because obviously he's a democrat. Now just slap a R on there i'm sure he would of gotten a better grade. Probably B.

Actually they don't have any rating for Meg. And considering the fact she has outright admitted she is not a fan of 2A that alone would not give her my vote. Not to mention the immigration issue and the whole not bothering to vote for 28 years and then want to run our state. Oh and lets not forget she let go 10% of that staff from Ebay when it was cutting in to her paycheck. Sorry no matter how you slice it Meg is not a decent choice. Now the fact that I am not crazy about Brown either but he has done things that have been 2A friendly which makes me giggle when I see Browns NRA rating. Oh and before you claim I am a liberal I very conservative actually.

QQQ
11-01-2010, 12:12 AM
I voted for Dale Ogden. Why compromise?

bwiese
11-01-2010, 1:10 AM
I voted for Dale Ogden. Why compromise?

Why be irrelevant?

On the other hand, at least you didn't vote for the true anti, Meg.

JimWest
11-01-2010, 10:33 AM
I voted for Dale Ogden. Why compromise?

Why be irrelevant?

Because he has principles?

(unlike me, who voted for JB, ashamed, so very ashamed :()

Stonewalker
11-01-2010, 10:38 AM
I'll be running down to my polling place after work tomorrow to vote for a pro-gun democratic gubernatorial candidate, a republican senate candidate (to unseat an anti-gun democrat) and a pro-marijuana proposition. Guess what kind of voter I am.

383green
11-01-2010, 10:48 AM
(unlike me, who voted for JB, ashamed, so very ashamed :()

You don't need to be ashamed. You made a tactical decision to select the viable candidate who will be most helpful to our narrow cause as we work on defining our newly-recognized fundamental right to keep and bear arms in the court system over the next few years. There's plenty to not like about him, but that's true of all of the candidates. We can hope that in the next election we'll have better candidates to choose from. We can even hope that in the next election it'll be tactically OK to send more votes towards third-party candidates in order to create more viability for non-D/non-R candidates in the future.

383green
11-01-2010, 10:53 AM
I'll be running down to my polling place after work tomorrow to vote for a pro-gun democratic gubernatorial candidate, a republican senate candidate (to unseat an anti-gun democrat) and a pro-marijuana proposition. Guess what kind of voter I am.

A pro-gun libertarian who's willing to make some distasteful choices when necessary for tactical purposes?

Stonewalker
11-01-2010, 11:24 AM
A pro-gun libertarian who's willing to make some distasteful choices when necessary for tactical purposes?

Yea pretty much. Specifically I vote for civil liberties first. BOR all the way. Party affiliation doesn't mean anything to me at the local and state level. It's a bit more important to play the game at the national level. But I do that begrudgingly.

383green
11-01-2010, 11:27 AM
Yea pretty much. Specifically I vote for civil liberties first. BOR all the way. Party affiliation doesn't mean anything to me at the local and state level. It's a bit more important to play the game at the national level. But I do that begrudgingly.

I certainly sympathize for the folks who feel the need to vote for third-party candidates. I've done that myself before, and I'll do it again in the future. This time, however, I see a valid tactical reason to vote for a couple of candidates (Brown and Fiorina) who I don't particularly like.

Stonewalker
11-01-2010, 11:28 AM
I certainly sympathize for the folks who feel the need to vote for third-party candidates. I've done that myself before, and I'll do it again in the future. This time, however, I see a valid tactical reason to vote for a couple of candidates (Brown and Fiorina) who I don't particularly like.

Yep, same here.

Meplat
11-01-2010, 5:59 PM
I assume the only reason why he got a crappy rating is because obviously he's a democrat. Now just slap a R on there i'm sure he would of gotten a better grade. Probably B.

Ya think?

And I'm a registered R.

Meplat
11-01-2010, 6:09 PM
I'll be running down to my polling place after work tomorrow to vote for a pro-gun democratic gubernatorial candidate, a republican senate candidate (to unseat an anti-gun democrat) and a pro-marijuana proposition. Guess what kind of voter I am.

Libertarian.

dfletcher
11-01-2010, 6:16 PM
I assume the only reason why he got a crappy rating is because obviously he's a democrat. Now just slap a R on there i'm sure he would of gotten a better grade. Probably B.

I'd go with a C, not a B. At least based on what he has and has not done or said, not based on what folks may (rightly perhaps) be inclined to think are his inclinations.

prob
11-01-2010, 8:08 PM
seems to have discouraged, may have been instrumental, tried to stop,

I stand corrected - Obviously Brown is the beacon of hope for all CA gun owners.

Comical....

What's comical is someone who voted for Meg Whitman thinking he voted for a pro second amendment candidate.

Flouncer
11-01-2010, 8:27 PM
Another vote for Jay Bee. Mailed in two weeks ago. Hell, anyone that nailed Linda Rondstadt has my vote :laugh:

QQQ
11-01-2010, 8:42 PM
I may be starting a firestorm here but didn't any of you see any other options on your ballots? I don't like JB's politics, I don't trust MW so I voted for someone else. I'd rather vote for something I like and not get it than vote for something I don't want and get it. When will we break this 2 party bi-opoly?

/signed.

You're not the only one.

If everyone who voted for Brown or Whitman as a compromise instead voted for a candidate who they actually supported, third parties would actually stand a chance in this state.

ptoguy2002
11-01-2010, 8:57 PM
I couldn't do it (pull the trigger for Brown). Couldn't go through with it. But I didn't vote for Meg either. So yeah I read that she is crazy, but I voted for Nightengale. No lesser of two evils BS for me anymore. If I get screwed by em I don't have to tell myself that I voted myself for that jacka*s.

Glock22Fan
11-02-2010, 8:07 AM
I couldn't do it (pull the trigger for Brown). Couldn't go through with it. But I didn't vote for Meg either. So yeah I read that she is crazy, but I voted for Nightengale. No lesser of two evils BS for me anymore. If I get screwed by em I don't have to tell myself that I voted myself for that jacka*s.

No, but when Meg passes by a whisker, and fails to veto that next draconian anti-gun law, you will have to ask yourself whether the Nightingale voters would have made a difference if they had voted for JB.

NightOwl
11-02-2010, 8:22 AM
No, but when Meg passes by a whisker, and fails to veto that next draconian anti-gun law, you will have to ask yourself whether the Nightingale voters would have made a difference if they had voted for JB.

Rather, I'll ask myself, would those Brown voters have done some good if they'd voted for a worthwhile candidate?

ponderosa
11-02-2010, 8:37 AM
I'm voting Brown because I just can't stand Meg and I know my vote will be useless voting for 3rd party (sadly). I feel Meg has a really really good chance of winning and I don't want that to happen. Sucks but that is life.

Glock22Fan
11-02-2010, 8:44 AM
Rather, I'll ask myself, would those Brown voters have done some good if they'd voted for a worthwhile candidate?

I know the answer to this.

a) The number of CalGunners voting for JB might well make the difference in whether we get Jerry or Meg.

b) if every CalGunner and his or her dog voted for Nightingale, it would make no difference whatsoever except boost Meg.

Do the maths, you'd need about 4 million extra Nightingale votes, whereas the Meg/Jerry thing might be swung by a few hundred.

Some of you, although well meaning, are delusional.


I'm voting Brown because I just can't stand Meg and I know my vote will be useless voting for 3rd party (sadly). I feel Meg has a really really good chance of winning and I don't want that to happen. Sucks but that is life.


Exactly.

1911 Fan
11-02-2010, 9:08 AM
I know the answer to this.

a) The number of CalGunners voting for JB might well make the difference in whether we get Jerry or Meg.

b) if every CalGunner and his or her dog voted for Nightingale, it would make no difference whatsoever except boost Meg.

Do the maths, you'd need about 4 million extra Nightingale votes, whereas the Meg/Jerry thing might be swung by a few hundred.

Some of you, although well meaning, are delusional.



Exactly.

Maybe delusional but I will sleep well at night. I refuse to compromise my principals after betrayal by dems and rhinos.We will see who is delusional after jb wins and is gov again.

wozusj
11-02-2010, 9:50 AM
Geez...I can't believe what I am hearing. Now granted, I am a brand new member, but pro gun people voting for progressive Democrats! They have ruined this state. What's hard to understand about that? Brown supports Obama and vice versa. That should be enough right there. If you all vote for more progressives, you won't have the $$$$ to support your gun ownership. Illegals and unions will continue to demand your tax $$$$'s. I guess when you run out of all that ammo cause you can't afford to buy anymore, you can just use your guns as clubs. Texas.....here I come! Ca is completely nuts!

Glock22Fan
11-02-2010, 9:57 AM
Geez...I can't believe what I am hearing. Now granted, I am a brand new member, but pro gun people voting for progressive Democrats! They have ruined this state. What's hard to understand about that? Brown supports Obama and vice versa. That should be enough right there. If you all vote for more progressives, you won't have the $$$$ to support your gun ownership. Illegals and unions will continue to demand your tax $$$$'s. I guess when you run out of all that ammo cause you can't afford to buy anymore, you can just use your guns as clubs. Texas.....here I come! Ca is completely nuts!

The more you speak, the more you reveal that you are indeed a brand new member and a complete newbie who has no idea of the discussions that have taken place in these forums over the last few months.

You remind me of a letter in response to a magazine article I read once that went something like:

"I am completely ignorant on this subject, but even so, it is obvious to me that . . . . ."

and the author's reply:

"It is because you are completely ignorant that you do not understand that what it obvious to you is completely wrong."

HowardW56
11-02-2010, 9:57 AM
Geez...I can't believe what I am hearing. Now granted, I am a brand new member, but pro gun people voting for progressive Democrats! They have ruined this state. What's hard to understand about that? Brown supports Obama and vice versa. That should be enough right there. If you all vote for more progressives, you won't have the $$$$ to support your gun ownership. Illegals and unions will continue to demand your tax $$$$'s. I guess when you run out of all that ammo cause you can't afford to buy anymore, you can just use your guns as clubs. Texas.....here I come! Ca is completely nuts!


Bye....

Gray Peterson
11-02-2010, 10:00 AM
Geez...I can't believe what I am hearing. Now granted, I am a brand new member, but pro gun people voting for progressive Democrats! They have ruined this state. What's hard to understand about that? Brown supports Obama and vice versa. That should be enough right there. If you all vote for more progressives, you won't have the $$$$ to support your gun ownership. Illegals and unions will continue to demand your tax $$$$'s. I guess when you run out of all that ammo cause you can't afford to buy anymore, you can just use your guns as clubs. Texas.....here I come! Ca is completely nuts!

Yet another low post count who has no real skin in the game posting that he's going to leave, most likely did really nothing to promote RKBA here in this state, never volunteered for anything, and think that just joining the NRA should be enough of a contribution to the cause.

I don't even live in California but I've helped more people in California than I can count. Take your ball, and leave for the safe land of Texas. Keep in mind, however, that being in a pro-gun state won't save you when the California Legislature passes a bunch of gun control laws that eMeg will certainly sign, those bad ideas tend to be tried out at the federal level, too.

Bizcuits
11-02-2010, 10:50 AM
I'm voting Brown because I just can't stand Meg and I know my vote will be useless voting for 3rd party (sadly). I feel Meg has a really really good chance of winning and I don't want that to happen. Sucks but that is life.

Yeap.

SgtDinosaur
11-02-2010, 10:56 AM
I'll be running down to my polling place after work tomorrow to vote for a pro-gun democratic gubernatorial candidate, a republican senate candidate (to unseat an anti-gun democrat) and a pro-marijuana proposition. Guess what kind of voter I am.

I voted the same as you. And then I voted for Libertarians mostly, except for AG. Harris is way too dangerous.

bwiese
11-02-2010, 10:58 AM
/signed.

You're not the only one.

If everyone who voted for Brown or Whitman as a compromise instead voted for a candidate who they actually supported, third parties would actually stand a chance in this state.

Dream on. People have been saying that for decades and nothing has happened and nothing ever will.
Ross Perot elected Bill Clinton.
Ralph Nader elected George Bush.

meg
11-02-2010, 10:59 AM
I voted for JB, and don't need a support group to affirm my decision.

I am not a single issue voter. I am pro-gun, pro-choice, anti-death penalty, pro-pot, and pro-same sex marriage. I like to buy video games and music and books that are of my choosing, not that some Higher Authority has said are okay because they won't warp the children that I don't have.

I'm a Berkeley-residing, fairly liberal, proudly atheist registered Democrat, and I'm on your side on the gun thing. So y'all can just cope with the rest of me. =)

Glock22Fan
11-02-2010, 11:01 AM
I voted for JB, and don't need a support group to affirm my decision.

I am not a single issue voter. I am pro-gun, pro-choice, anti-death penalty, pro-pot, and pro-same sex marriage. I like to buy video games and music and books that are of my choosing, not that some Higher Authority has said are okay because they won't warp the children that I don't have.

I'm a Berkeley-residing, fairly liberal, proudly atheist registered Democrat, and I'm on your side on the gun thing. So y'all can just cope with the rest of me. =)

I hope your other name is Whitman, but I fear not. Welcome to the board.

383green
11-02-2010, 11:12 AM
I am not a single issue voter. I am pro-gun, pro-choice, anti-death penalty, pro-pot, and pro-same sex marriage. I like to buy video games and music and books that are of my choosing, not that some Higher Authority has said are okay because they won't warp the children that I don't have.

I'm a Berkeley-residing, fairly liberal, proudly atheist registered Democrat, and I'm on your side on the gun thing. So y'all can just cope with the rest of me. =)

Interesting. I generally don't agree with the Democratic Party platform, yet you and I appear to agree on every issue that you chose to mention there. Welcome to CGN.

cvc04
11-02-2010, 11:18 AM
Dream on. People have been saying that for decades and nothing has happened and nothing ever will.
Ross Perot elected Bill Clinton.
Ralph Nader elected George Bush.

Could it be said that Dale Ogden/ Chelene Nightingale elected Jerry Brown?

Dr Rockso
11-02-2010, 11:20 AM
Could it be said that Dale Ogden/ Chelene Nightingale elected Jerry Brown?

It's possible. The Democrats are apparently using it as a tactic in a number of states.

http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/democrats-go-trick-or-treating-as-libertarians

Benedict continued, "Some of the Democratic Party funded ads have pointed out that Libertarians want to cut government spending and end programs that aren't authorized by the Constitution. Thank you, Democrats!

"The Democrats are obviously hoping to turn Republican voters into Libertarians. Their trick might turn out to be our treat.

"If the Republicans are smart, they might try a similar tactic. For example, Republicans could inform liberal voters that Libertarians want to end foreign wars and close foreign military bases; end the War on Drugs; reform immigration policy to make legal immigration easier; and we want the government to show equal treatment to homosexuals.

"Maybe Democrats and Republicans could have a contest to see who can promote Libertarians the most.

bwiese
11-02-2010, 11:23 AM
Could it be said that Dale Ogden/ Chelene Nightingale elected Jerry Brown?

Perhaps.

But the number of votes they will get - combined! - will likely be quite a bit smaller than the margin I expect Brown to beat Whitman by given recent credible polls.

Nevertheless voting for these people is better than voting for eMeg.

383green
11-02-2010, 11:24 AM
Maybe Democrats and Republicans could have a contest to see who can promote Libertarians the most.

Now I know what I'm asking Santa for this year!

1BigPea
11-02-2010, 11:42 AM
Wife and I sent in our ballots 2 weeks ago. There was no way we were going to vote for Meg and I've never voted for a Democrat in my life. Filling in that box with Jerry Brown's name next to it was so tough.

We both feel that Meg will be worse for gun owners here in CA and on that issue alone we voted for Brown.

EL_NinO619
11-02-2010, 11:50 AM
WTF Jerry Brown.....You people must enjoy all the anti gun policy's..

383green
11-02-2010, 11:51 AM
WTF Jerry Brown.....You people must enjoy all the anti gun policy's..

Congratulations! You've just made an ignorant, ill-informed comment that we've only heard (and debunked) about a thousand times so far.

wozusj
11-02-2010, 12:09 PM
The more you speak, the more you reveal that you are indeed a brand new member and a complete newbie who has no idea of the discussions that have taken place in these forums over the last few months.

You remind me of a letter in response to a magazine article I read once that went something like:

"I am completely ignorant on this subject, but even so, it is obvious to me that . . . . ."

and the author's reply:

"It is because you are completely ignorant that you do not understand that what it obvious to you is completely wrong."

Sorry that I am new to this forum and obviously have not received the "proper" indoctrination.... "There boy.....shut up and listen to your elders".
Problem is, you remind me of someone who, while being fed and nurtured with the one hand, is oblivious of what is going on with the other.

Stonewalker
11-02-2010, 12:09 PM
WTF Jerry Brown.....You people must enjoy all the anti gun policy's..

I'm surprised at the amount of these types of comments all the way up to election day. Three months ago, ok, one month ago, fine, even a couple weeks ago, but today? Come on man, this has been discussed so much here.

If you are going to single-issue this election then vote for JB. Meg is the clear loser in the 2nd amendment realm.

tempdrummer
11-02-2010, 12:12 PM
WTF Jerry Brown.....You people must enjoy all the anti gun policy's..

:facepalm:

Serpentine
11-02-2010, 12:12 PM
This is election has far more reaching impacts on this state than the status quo 2A based, one-issue stance of the past.

There is some comfort and a bit less fear now with post U.S. Supreme 2A protections that will stifle unreasonable restrictions on 2A rights.

I am fed up and sick of BIG BROTHER government!

I don't want open borders, amnesty and free benefits for illegal immigrants.

I don't want the continued out of control spending.

I want that giant sucking sound of jobs going out of state and country in mass to go away ASAP!

I don't want anyone that aligns themselves with Obama, his party, his failed promises, failed bailouts, and his impossible to implement cloaked forced health care reform law.

I don't want anyone that caters to labor unions special interests. Unions are the bane of our failed economy. We need to get back to "You earn your pay or your FIRED!," and there's no union safety net to protect you if you are lazy and/or smart enough to milk the system rather than to work hard to contribute to it.

People that say Whitman is buying her seat - have you considered that unions have outspent Whitman two to one to get their special interest candidate in office?

I'm afraid the long history of Brown and dems controlling this state has been a complete failure. I'm 51, born and raised here in CA. I guess with age comes a better "big picture" vision of history vs. future choices.

If we don't have jobs for much longer, we'll continue down the road of being a third world type economy. Those failed economies are where people live in constant dependence on and fear of their government - and fear of civil wars.

Gun or no gun, that kind of fear is a real fear that is unknown to Americans for centuries of generations, but it's getting closer and closer every day. That is when a gun is needed for survival, and not merely for collector, sporting interest, or one on one self defense sense of security.


.

EL_NinO619
11-02-2010, 12:16 PM
This is election has far more reaching impacts on this state than the status quo 2A based, one-issue stance of the past.

There is some comfort and a bit less fear now with post U.S. Supreme 2A protections that will stifle unreasonable restrictions on 2A rights.

I don't want open borders, amnesty and free benefits for illegal immigrants.

I don't want the continued out of control spending.

I want that giant sucking sound of jobs going out of state and country in mass to go away ASAP!

I don't want anyone that connects themselves with Obama, his party, his failed bailouts, and his impossible to implement cloaked forced health care reform law.

I don't want anyone that caters to labor unions special interests. Unions are the bane of our failed economy. We need to get back to "you earn your pay," and there's no safety net to protect you if you are lazy and/or smart enough to milk the system rather to work hard to contribute to it.

People that say Whitman is buying her seat - have you considered that unions have outspent Whitman two to one to get their special interest candidate in office?

I'm afraid the long history of Brown and dems controlling this state has been a complete failure. I'm 51, born and raised here in CA. I guess with age comes a better "big picture" vision of history vs. future choices.

If we don't have jobs for much longer, we'll continue down the road of being a third world type economy. Those failed economies are where people live in fear of their government and fear of civil wars. Gun or no gun, that kind of fear is a real fear that is unknown to American soil, but it's getting closer and closer every day.


.


.

Thank you.. I fear a lot of you are misinformed

wozusj
11-02-2010, 12:17 PM
Wife and I sent in our ballots 2 weeks ago. There was no way we were going to vote for Meg and I've never voted for a Democrat in my life. Filling in that box with Jerry Brown's name next to it was so tough.

We both feel that Meg will be worse for gun owners here in CA and on that issue alone we voted for Brown.

When you voted for Brown, were you able to see both hands or, as I suspect, was the other one hidden?

1BigPea
11-02-2010, 12:19 PM
When you voted for Brown, were you able to see both hands or, as I suspect, was the other one hidden?


HUH?

wozusj
11-02-2010, 12:19 PM
This is election has far more reaching impacts on this state than the status quo 2A based, one-issue stance of the past.

There is some comfort and a bit less fear now with post U.S. Supreme 2A protections that will stifle unreasonable restrictions on 2A rights.

I don't want open borders, amnesty and free benefits for illegal immigrants.

I don't want the continued out of control spending.

I want that giant sucking sound of jobs going out of state and country in mass to go away ASAP!

I don't want anyone that connects themselves with Obama, his party, his failed bailouts, and his impossible to implement cloaked forced health care reform law.

I don't want anyone that caters to labor unions special interests. Unions are the bane of our failed economy. We need to get back to "you earn your pay," and there's no safety net to protect you if you are lazy and/or smart enough to milk the system rather to work hard to contribute to it.

People that say Whitman is buying her seat - have you considered that unions have outspent Whitman two to one to get their special interest candidate in office?

I'm afraid the long history of Brown and dems controlling this state has been a complete failure. I'm 51, born and raised here in CA. I guess with age comes a better "big picture" vision of history vs. future choices.

If we don't have jobs for much longer, we'll continue down the road of being a third world type economy. Those failed economies are where people live in fear of their government and fear of civil wars. Gun or no gun, that kind of fear is a real fear that is unknown to American soil, but it's getting closer and closer every day.


.


.

Couldn't have said it better.

VacaDuck
11-02-2010, 12:25 PM
This is election has far more reaching impacts on this state than the status quo 2A based, one-issue stance of the past.

There is some comfort and a bit less fear now with post U.S. Supreme 2A protections that will stifle unreasonable restrictions on 2A rights.

I don't want open borders, amnesty and free benefits for illegal immigrants.

I don't want the continued out of control spending.

I want that giant sucking sound of jobs going out of state and country in mass to go away ASAP!

I don't want anyone that connects themselves with Obama, his party, his failed bailouts, and his impossible to implement cloaked forced health care reform law.

I don't want anyone that caters to labor unions special interests. Unions are the bane of our failed economy. We need to get back to "you earn your pay," and there's no safety net to protect you if you are lazy and/or smart enough to milk the system rather to work hard to contribute to it.

People that say Whitman is buying her seat - have you considered that unions have outspent Whitman two to one to get their special interest candidate in office?

I'm afraid the long history of Brown and dems controlling this state has been a complete failure. I'm 51, born and raised here in CA. I guess with age comes a better "big picture" vision of history vs. future choices.

If we don't have jobs for much longer, we'll continue down the road of being a third world type economy. Those failed economies are where people live in fear of their government and fear of civil wars. Gun or no gun, that kind of fear is a real fear that is unknown to American soil, but it's getting closer and closer every day.


.


.

Well said.

wozusj
11-02-2010, 12:32 PM
HUH?

Just kind of saying that while Brown could arguably be your best choice as it relates to gun issues, other "issues" demand our attention too. Some of which may just affect your gun rights in the future.

1BigPea
11-02-2010, 12:36 PM
Just kind of saying that while Brown could arguably be your best choice as it relates to gun issues, other "issues" demand our attention too. Some of which may just affect your gun rights in the future.


Said like that, yes, a very tough decision. We felt that a vote for another candidate other than Brown or Whitman would be wasted.

I can't trust Meg on the other "issues" either, which is why it was a painfully difficult vote and she didn't get mine.

Glock22Fan
11-02-2010, 12:45 PM
Just kind of saying that while Brown could arguably be your best choice as it relates to gun issues, other "issues" demand our attention too. Some of which may just affect your gun rights in the future.

Said like that, yes, a very tough decision. We felt that a vote for another candidate other than Brown or Whitman would be wasted.

I can't trust Meg on the other "issues" either, which is why it was a painfully difficult vote and she didn't get mine.

Exactly.

Many of us thought long and hard about this. It is the first time many of us (myself included) have voted dem for any office. we didn't just pop up on a forum without lurking and spout the first thing that came to our minds.
"Shut up, boy, and listen to your elders"
There's times and places when that's advisable. Better to keep quiet and be thought ignorant than open your mouth and dispel all doubt. BTW, I would have responded a little differently had you not come on here telling us we were all idiots because only you knew the truth.

Added: And if you doubt this, read the next post after this.

ptoguy2002
11-02-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't know about everybody else....

But I am really getting sick of people having ignored the 2A forum and all the discussions for the last three months, and bring all this "how is Meg anti-gun" and "how is JB pro-gun" stuff out now.
The same questions and responses over and over again.
Where have you been?

I'll be glad when this election is over. I am sure that we can all agree on that.

8 more hours....

bondmid003
11-02-2010, 1:01 PM
I voted in FL as well but being stationed here i'm very interested in how all this pans out.

bwiese
11-02-2010, 1:06 PM
Serpentine:

Several of the reasons you're selling black rifles without grief is Jerry Brown.

'Nuff said.

Serpentine
11-02-2010, 1:25 PM
Serpentine:

Several of the reasons you're selling black rifles without grief is Jerry Brown.

'Nuff said.

OK, I'll give him that one as a token, but more accolades go to the members here and CGF for the "without grief" part of it.

Wouldn't you agree that any and all Attorney Generals should apply the Constitution as it is handed down to them by the by the Supreme Court of the land? JB was just doing what he should have been doing. He wasn't advocating anything uniquely out of the purview of his job.

The ability to sell "black guns" is short sighted. The ownership of a black gun will not save us from the much more dire issues I spoke about above.

It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it by default because other associated dynamics were ignored.

.

choprzrul
11-02-2010, 1:33 PM
1. Jerry Brown == pro gun

2. Jerry Brown == anti business

3. Jerry Brown == no money left to buy guns & ammo

What, exactly, good is #1 when #3 happens?

I have a name for #3: Economic Gun Control.


Tell me how I am wrong?

Oh, and there is this little tidbit:

AIlzYD4tk78

Code7inOaktown
11-03-2010, 12:03 AM
I single issue voted the governor:

Which one do Nurses, Teachers and Firefighters prefer and then chose the opposite. In fact that's my stance on the propositions as well.

The unions are the single biggest threat facing California and we need to rout out that problem asap.

So I don't get it, you voted for Brown because Meg got that massive huge contribution and also cut a deal with the police unions not to gut their rather sweet retirement packages too?

JimWest
11-03-2010, 4:02 AM
Serpentine:

Several of the reasons you're selling black rifles without grief is Jerry Brown.

'Nuff said.

Yeah, but now I want one of those black rifles with the quiet thingy on the end! :)

Biigg50
11-03-2010, 7:51 AM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Now I am even more amazed at the people here!

Meplat
11-03-2010, 4:23 PM
WTF Jerry Brown.....You people must enjoy all the anti gun policy's..

Oh! You of little history.:rolleyes:

PixelBender
11-03-2010, 4:48 PM
1. Divison of Firearms was reduced to a bureau – meaning there is staffing to handle harassing bad guys but not normal law-abiding citizens.
2. Iggy Chin and Randy Rossi were sent packing.
3. Allison Merrilees found it better to work elsewhere.
4. The DOJ Bureau of Firearms has not lobbied for gun control.
5. Brown seems to have discouraged the legislature from passing more restrictions.
6. “Permanence” rule-making is gone.
7. Brown filed the amicus in support of McDonald.
8. Brown killed an anti-gun brief which was headed out the door for Heller.
9. He may have been instrumental in arranging for microstamping to die
10. New regulations seem to have been killed during his AG tenure. Note that OLL's and bullet buttons mean that “AW” style weaponry has proliferated despite the ban.
11. Tried to stop AB962 (quietly, though).
12. Effectively killed a lot of cases against individual citizens. The DA decides to prosecute and the DOJ simply didn't show up to provide the testimony the DA needed for a conviction.
13. Note that the net effect of certain individuals leaving the BOF has been that it is now not a very political organization and is simply people doing the processing of paperwork, requests and the like according to regulations rather than trying to re-interpret to our disadvantage.

Meg Whitman launched a crusade to annihilate any gun sales and parts from EBay. She is an anti-gunner.


+1 on the homework.
I voted JB. There was no way I was going to let Whitman win.
Am I happy about it?
No. But there is one thing I factored into the equation. Jerry Brown, and Boxer, have tactics which most 2A supporting orgs are aware of and ready to combat. Boxer is a corpse, and familiar territory. As is JB, with what appears to be a slightly more favorable track record in the recent years.

Unfortunately this state is bent on a two party system, so, voting for anyone other than JB, or MW, was a wasted vote.

I'm not a single issue voter either. Sadly, most firearms supporting candidates have a tendency to be right wing fundamentalist christians on most of the issues I think the government has absolutely no right to even be involved in. I wont go into that as thats a completely different issue.

Take care

D.R.E.
11-03-2010, 4:54 PM
Just donated to calguns. W/ the other races they are going to need the cash.


How about less whinging and more dollars!

Meplat
11-03-2010, 5:26 PM
It's too late. The other issues are lost. The best you can hope for is to be prepared when the system comes crashing down. And that requires being armed.

If you think a vote for Whitman would be of any value in saving our state or nation you are mistaken. Whitman is a 100% Rino progressive. Sure, she might not damage the economy quite as much quite as fast. But is that really a good thing?

Our only hope is that the progressives, that have been pillaging both our treasury and our constitution for over 100 years, over reach enough to awaken the clueless majority as to what is going on. So far they have been masters of incrementalism. If Brown brings things down faster, so much the better.

That said. I admit, I myself Did not vote for Brown. It looked like he could win without me so I voted Libertarian. I feel kind of wimpy, like a man who can't kill his own food. But I have not voted for a D since Tony Cohalo threw gun owners under the buss. I feel wimpy, but I don't feel like I need a shower like I know some here did after voting for Brown.




Just kind of saying that while Brown could arguably be your best choice as it relates to gun issues, other "issues" demand our attention too. Some of which may just affect your gun rights in the future.

CorsicanRedneck
11-03-2010, 5:51 PM
Unfortunately this state is bent on a two party system, so, voting for anyone other than JB, or MW, was a wasted vote.

It's been a very long time that the State of California is a ONE party state. The rest of the nation knows it.

Steyr_223
11-03-2010, 6:02 PM
Voted for Brown.

AEC1
11-03-2010, 6:05 PM
Those of you that got me brown as governor should have at least given me some weed to smoke so I could hold my breakfast down. I want to puke. Brown and Boxer, I want to get stoned!!!

VictorFranko
11-03-2010, 6:14 PM
Please understand I mean this with the most respect, but what were you knuckleheads thinking? :p
I guess you were too young to remember Governor Moonbeam the first TWO times around!
(you have to excuse me, I got my CCW call today and went out and celebrated with friends!)
YaaHoo!
Mucho mas tequila! (after all, it is the official language of California!)

zenmastar
11-03-2010, 6:15 PM
Let's back off on that. We have some great CA NRA guys that I can 100% say work their arse off.
A big hats off to them and the CRPA lobbyst for killing wholesale the bad laws this year.

Remember that Fairfax, VA is 3000 miles away. Sometimes accurate information doesn't get that
far that fast - just like the home office in a commercial enterprise doesn't always 'get' what the
branch office is doing.

You seem like the one with the most bipolar internet persona.... ragging on public service unions, but supporting brown who was the one that:


extended collective bargaining rights to state employees (SB 839, 1977) as well as firefighters and other local government workers (AB 1693, 1981).

signed laws to give teachers and public school employees (SB 160, 1975), as well as UC and CSU employees (AB 1091, 1978), the right to bargain collectively.

signed the landmark farm labor law, which extended collective bargaining rights to farm workers and established the Agricultural Labor Relations Board. (SB 1, 1975)


He also was the governor on record who signed into law several laws that set up the worker compensation fraud that chases jobs out of state. He is the number one governor of public unions. Even Davis comes in second.

I have to ask, were you living in California during his tenure (1975 to 1982)? Do you remember 101 not connecting in south San Jose but had to use Monterrey highway? Or 87 ending into nothingness just pass 280? Or 85 ending just pass Stevens Creek Blvd? All Jerry Brown's doing.

Remember Jerry Brown, governor during the prop 13 vote, standing deadfast against it, and who is still against it?

6172crew
11-03-2010, 6:36 PM
You seem like the one with the most bipolar internet persona.... ragging on public service unions, but supporting brown who was the one that:


extended collective bargaining rights to state employees (SB 839, 1977) as well as firefighters and other local government workers (AB 1693, 1981).

signed laws to give teachers and public school employees (SB 160, 1975), as well as UC and CSU employees (AB 1091, 1978), the right to bargain collectively.

signed the landmark farm labor law, which extended collective bargaining rights to farm workers and established the Agricultural Labor Relations Board. (SB 1, 1975)


He also was the governor on record who signed into law several laws that set up the worker compensation fraud that chases jobs out of state. He is the number one governor of public unions. Even Davis comes in second.

I have to ask, were you living in California during his tenure (1975 to 1982)? Do you remember 101 not connecting in south San Jose but had to use Monterrey highway? Or 87 ending into nothingness just pass 280? Or 85 ending just pass Stevens Creek Blvd? All Jerry Brown's doing.

Remember Jerry Brown, governor during the prop 13 vote, standing deadfast against it, and who is still against it?

You just left out one part, Bill is all about the 2nd. Everything else is white noise to this man.

bwiese
11-03-2010, 6:45 PM
You just left out one part, Bill is all about the 2nd. Everything else is white noise to this man.

Bingo.

Fix one thing first.