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View Full Version : Hayward gun buyback event: Saturday 10am-3pm, south Hayward BART station


bwiese
10-29-2010, 12:24 PM
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2010/10/29/hayward-police-holding-gun-buy-back-event


Perhaps the time to sell some AK flats :)



Hayward Police Holding Gun Buy-Back Event
October 29, 2010 12:39 PM

HAYWARD (BCN) – Police are attempting to disarm dangerous situations in Hayward before they happen through the department’s annual gun buy-back event set to take place Saturday.

The guns will be accepted on a “no questions asked” basis, and all firearms are ultimately destroyed, according to police.

To date, the Police Department has retired 700 unwanted firearms.

“These are guns that will not fall into the hands of gang members or other criminals and can never become the instrument of a tragic event,” crime prevention specialist Rick Blanton said in a statement.

The event was scheduled to take place Saturday from 10 a.m. until 3 p.m. at the South Hayward BART station overflow parking lot, which is located across the street from the station on Dixon Street.

* * * * *

CHS
10-29-2010, 12:29 PM
Wow, I'm having a perception of more safety already!

berto
10-29-2010, 12:34 PM
What exactly is a crime prevention specialist and what does it do?

CHS
10-29-2010, 12:35 PM
What exactly is a crime prevention specialist and what does it do?

Whatever he does, it's apparently not actually preventing crime. Because gun buybacks don't. Period.

Peter.Steele
10-29-2010, 12:50 PM
Huh. Wonder how much they're paying...

I've got a drill press, and I could get a sheet metal brake pretty easily...

383green
10-29-2010, 12:54 PM
I wish I had free access to a CNC laser cutter. I'd make a lot of AK flats out of scrap sheet metal and then turn them in, thus creating more safety. I'm just a giving person like that.

Munk
10-29-2010, 12:55 PM
Huh. Wonder how much they're paying...

I've got a drill press, and I could get a sheet metal brake pretty easily...

my thoughts exactly.

(also tempted to go down there and make better offers on some stuff for PPTs... try to snipe a good deal).

Edit: I can see the news reports now "2000 guns were turned in at the most recent event, 1950 of them were AK47 style receivers. On a related note : The CGF and SAF each received a 10,000 donation with the memo 'LOL cops' attached to the check".

wildhawker
10-29-2010, 1:08 PM
It's absolutely insane that they would direct major firearm traffic to an area just steps from an elementary school. What a predictable circumstance for criminals to intercept guns!

Window_Seat
10-29-2010, 1:19 PM
It's absolutely insane that they would direct major firearm traffic to an area just steps from an elementary school. What a predictable circumstance for criminals to intercept guns!

According to my Google Map, there are no K-12 Schools within 1000' of So. Hayward BART.

Erik.

Librarian
10-29-2010, 1:20 PM
It's absolutely insane that they would direct major firearm traffic to an area just steps from an elementary school. What a predictable circumstance for criminals to intercept guns!

Unfortunately the nearest k-12 school appears to be Bret Harte Middle school, 0.4 miles away at 1047 E St, outside the 1000 foot GFSZ.

Maybe a field trip to BART could be arranged for that day.

Whoops, that's South Hayward BART - nearest is still 0.3 miles away, but it's Cesar Chavez Middle School at 27845 Whitman St.

Markus
10-29-2010, 1:22 PM
is it frowned upon to go there and offer people more money than the cops are offering? I know many people talk about it but I havent heard of anyone doing it. So i was just wondering whether it was a fond wish or if people really do this.

berto
10-29-2010, 1:26 PM
Whatever he does, it's apparently not actually preventing crime. Because gun buybacks don't. Period.

Crime prevention specialist is a person who knows how to put a positive spin on a loosing proposition and claim that they should be paid a lot of money because if they weren't, the crime rate would go up :).


My idea of a crime prevention specialist is someone CCWing. Perhaps Hayward ought to look into it.

WileyWilly
10-29-2010, 1:35 PM
Dang! Too far away for me, I have a couple of junkers that need to go.

Librarian
10-29-2010, 1:44 PM
is it frowned upon to go there and offer people more money than the cops are offering? I know many people talk about it but I havent heard of anyone doing it. So i was just wondering whether it was a fond wish or if people really do this.

HPD probably would not appreciate the competition, but no law I am aware of prevents you from putting up a sign some distance away offering more for the right guns, and arranging with Castro Valley to do a bunch of PPTs.

Phouty
10-29-2010, 1:49 PM
Finally! Residents of Hayward will be able to see significant drop in crime statistics within 24 hours.
Adjacent towns unfortunatelly will have to wait approx. a week to see the significant impact on violent crime in the neighborhood.

Ibgreezy
10-29-2010, 2:07 PM
They are only offering $50

383green
10-29-2010, 2:10 PM
They are only offering $50

I guess that's how much value they place on having less crime. :rolleyes:

Peter.Steele
10-29-2010, 2:15 PM
They are only offering $50


Hell, if I went and bought some old washing machine sheet metal and printed out a drill and cut template, I could probably turn AK or Uzi flats out for 10-20 bucks a pop, if that. Fold 'em up, put in a couple welds. Sure, I wouldn't want to fire 'em, but sheesh, they'll just get torched down anyway, so who cares!

trautert
10-29-2010, 2:27 PM
Isn't there some kind of restriction on bringing firearms within a certain distance from a BART station? Or is that just Tasers?

Tom

wildhawker
10-29-2010, 2:40 PM
I understand with respect to 626.9 (I did check myself), but my point remains - Hayward is *asking* for guns to move through a largely residential area with an elementary school present a stone's throw away.

As a point of information, Google Earth shows the school about 1100ft from the corner of the BART lot; unsure about legal boundaries but it's close enough for government work, as they say.

Who wants to bet that handguns will be rolling through that GFSZ without being appropriately secured?

According to my Google Map, there are no K-12 Schools within 1000' of So. Hayward BART.

Erik.

MustangGreg66
10-29-2010, 2:41 PM
Damn, I wish they'd weed out the junk and sell everything else through consignment at a local gun shop, actually make the city some money...

loather
10-29-2010, 2:42 PM
I wouldn't bring a gun to a buyback, even if it was the biggest piece of crap box of acid-eaten, rust-covered parts. No way. Every gun they get feeds more of these stupid events.

loather
10-29-2010, 2:46 PM
Who wants to bet that handguns will be rolling through that GFSZ without being appropriately secured?

I'll take that bet!

And of course, none of them are going to be prosecuted... selective enforcement of the law.

What we need is to find someone who gets pulled over in front of a school on their way to a buyback and doesn't get arrested. That'd be some good ammunition to use in a lawsuit.

Python2
10-29-2010, 3:03 PM
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2010/10/29/hayward-police-holding-gun-buy-back-event


Perhaps the time to sell some AK flats :)



Hayward Police Holding Gun Buy-Back Event
October 29, 2010 12:39 PM

HAYWARD (BCN) – Police are attempting to disarm dangerous situations in Hayward before they happen through the department’s annual gun buy-back event set to take place Saturday.

The guns will be accepted on a “no questions asked” basis, and all firearms are ultimately destroyed, according to police.

To date, the Police Department has retired 700 unwanted firearms.

“These are guns that will not fall into the hands of gang members or other criminals and can never become the instrument of a tragic event,” crime prevention specialist Rick Blanton said in a statement.

The event was scheduled to take place Saturday from 10 a.m. until 3 p.m. at the South Hayward BART station overflow parking lot, which is located across the street from the station on Dixon Street.

* * * * *

Who do I check with if they will buyback the AK and AR receiver I screwed working on so I can buy a new one to try again? :D The receiver is a firearm you know.
Hey those of you who f..&^&*..k up their receiver your chance to get your money back:p:p

greasemonkey
10-29-2010, 3:18 PM
It's along the same lines as "jobs saved"; there's no way to really enumerate how many jobs were "saved" by Obama...but if we would not have done everything he said, less jobs would have been "saved".

Without a Crime Prevention Specialist, who knows how bad crime "could have" gotten?! Think of the children's safety had we not had a Crime Prevention Specialist to keep it from getting worse than it already is!!!

What exactly is a crime prevention specialist and what does it do?

Paul S
10-29-2010, 3:42 PM
What exactly is a crime prevention specialist and what does it do?

Normally the job title given to a non-sworn (as in a civilian) employee of a law enforcement agency whose primary job is crime prevention education, surveys and other tasks. Such as in this case perhaps...manning the desk at the buy-back site.
Usually the pay is at a moderate level. Crime prevention specialists also often compile statistics, crime pattern charts etc. The buy-back event aside, Crime Prevention Specialists can be and usually are valuable employees who help out a lot with the more mundane tasks which must be done in law enforcement agencies.

blackberg
10-29-2010, 3:43 PM
I wish I had free access to a CNC laser cutter. I'd make a lot of AK flats out of scrap sheet metal and then turn them in, thus creating more safety. I'm just a giving person like that.

yeah, you can feel more safe by buying another real gun and ammo from the money you make:D

-bb

Peter.Steele
10-29-2010, 3:50 PM
Hell, I gotta get around to finishing up my CNC router. I've got most of a small blast furnace built, and I could cut out foam AR receivers, melt down aluminum and cast a bunch of AR receivers for practically nothing. It'd be probably cheaper and quicker than doing the AK flats, as well as looking more substantial and evil. :chris:

wildhawker
10-29-2010, 3:53 PM
For entertainment value (and to publish far and wide), why don't we just PRAR the lead-up, planning, overall stats and cost of operating the buyback after it's all said and done?

I mean, we seem to be the open government and public records experts of the 2A world (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/news/152-ccw-initiative) here in California. :43:

glockman19
10-29-2010, 3:57 PM
Unfortunately the nearest k-12 school appears to be Bret Harte Middle school, 0.4 miles away at 1047 E St, outside the 1000 foot GFSZ.

Maybe a field trip to BART could be arranged for that day.

Whoops, that's South Hayward BART - nearest is still 0.3 miles away, but it's Cesar Chavez Middle School at 27845 Whitman St.

Actually Cesar Chavez middle school and La Vista Intermediate school are within 1,000 feet of the proposed location's address of 28601 Dixon Street.

dunndeal
10-29-2010, 3:57 PM
Thank goodness, I can finally get rid of my Colt Python, save some lives and make $50 in the process.

oni.dori
10-29-2010, 4:04 PM
my thoughts exactly.

(also tempted to go down there and make better offers on some stuff for PPTs... try to snipe a good deal).

Edit: I can see the news reports now "2000 guns were turned in at the most recent event, 1950 of them were AK47 style receivers. On a related note : The CGF and SAF each received a 10,000 donation with the memo 'LOL cops' attached to the check".

Hell, if I went and bought some old washing machine sheet metal and printed out a drill and cut template, I could probably turn AK or Uzi flats out for 10-20 bucks a pop, if that. Fold 'em up, put in a couple welds. Sure, I wouldn't want to fire 'em, but sheesh, they'll just get torched down anyway, so who cares!

Oh ya, give them more fodder to perpetuate their "evil assault weapon crime guns" farce, thats it!! :rolleyes:

jtzshooters
10-29-2010, 4:19 PM
Isn't there some kind of restriction on bringing firearms within a certain distance from a BART station? Or is that just Tasers?

TomOnly if your a BART cop .........FREE Mehserle :43:

Librarian
10-29-2010, 4:24 PM
Actually Cesar Chavez middle school and La Vista Intermediate school are within 1,000 feet of the proposed location's address of 28601 Dixon Street.

Google Earth seems to disagree - the corner of Whitman and Tennyson seems to be the closest bit of school grounds to the BART station; along Tennyson to the BART tracks is 1000 feet - and the BART parking is on the other side of the tracks.

The parking across the street from 28601 Dixon appears to be 2000 feet away.

At least, when I use the ruler function, that's what I get.

OleCuss
10-29-2010, 4:24 PM
It's probably not worth the trip, but I've got an old .22LR I don't want anymore - if they are paying enough and they'll take out of towners. . .

oni.dori
10-29-2010, 4:30 PM
they'll take out of towners. . .

It is supposed to be "no questions asked".

CHS
10-29-2010, 4:40 PM
It's probably not worth the trip, but I've got an old .22LR I don't want anymore - if they are paying enough and they'll take out of towners. . .

I'll buy it.

BoxesOfLiberty
10-29-2010, 4:48 PM
What exactly is a crime prevention specialist and what does it do?

I think it is the same as a "community organizer" but specializing in crime prevention.

CitaDeL
10-29-2010, 4:59 PM
I dont believe it is illegal to photodocument or video tape those turning in unsecured firearms in a 626.9 gun free school zone.

Certainly would be entertaining even if it werent inside a school zone... Might give it the impression that it is a 'sting', rather than a 'buyback'.

wildhawker
10-29-2010, 5:15 PM
Certainly would be entertaining even if it werent inside a school zone... Might give it the impression that it is a 'sting', rather than a 'buyback'.

This is a very interesting grassroots method of potentially countering this and similar events.

Sionadi
10-29-2010, 5:22 PM
The last one that was close to me they were giving out 100 bucks for handguns, I went to every store around and bought a bunch of 20 dollar airsoft guns and a few cans of spray paint.

I painted over the orange barrel, and on a couple of the clear ones i bought I just spray painted the whole gun.

I made alot of money that day.

creekside
10-29-2010, 6:00 PM
Why is it that this collection of 'illegal' guns is not treated as a conspiracy to destroy evidence?

The allegation is that some of these 'crime guns' have been used to commit crimes, up to and including murder. So under what legal theory are the police allowed to conspire to destroy the evidence of these crimes?

At the very least they should be tested for ballistics and associated with the name of the person who dropped them off, to give the homicide investigator something to go on -- or is 'getting guns off the street' somehow more important than solving murders and saving lives by locking up killers instead of guns?

creekside
10-29-2010, 6:01 PM
I can't see a good reason why someone shouldn't use this as an opportunity to pass out flyers educating people about the gun laws as well as basic firearms safety.

I mean, there are going to be a number of people present who are particularly ignorant of the gun laws, including the news media and [REDACTED]. Think of the children! Next time, hand out "Eddie Eagle" materials . . .

Even just a bookmark with a list of Web links:

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/casl.pdf
http://www.crpa.org/
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf California Firearms Laws 2006
http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/ "Eddie Eagle" Gun Safety for Children

and of course

http://www.calguns.net

:)

OleCuss
10-29-2010, 6:08 PM
I'll buy it.

It's an old Explorer AR-7 (IIRC, I've not even looked at it in years). I doubt it is functional and it never was very accurate - the sights suck pretty badly. No more than a coupla hundred rounds through it but I've not maintained it at any reasonable level. Still, a little cleaning and lube and it might be fine.

It's one of those little rifles whose barrel screws off the action and inserts into a styrofoam-filled plastic buttstock. Actually, the action and magazine go in there as well. The thing will float if thrown in the water (but I never tried it to be sure).

Kinda cool little rifle but I don't think it's worth the cost to PPT the thing. They weren't worth much to begin with and they're not collectibles - especially if they were made by Charter Arms (and I think this one was). Barrels tend to warp and all that.

If my local PD were doing a decent buyback they'd get this one - no problem. Kind of a shame, though, 'cuz I actually do have a 15 round magazine for the thing somewhere. Actually, I should do the buyback and use the money I get from that to get a decent version from Henry Survival Arms - and happily use my 15 rounder in that. And in case anyone wonders - that 15 rounder was obtained and is possessed completely legally.

OleCuss
10-29-2010, 6:12 PM
Why is it that this collection of 'illegal' guns is not treated as a conspiracy to destroy evidence?

The allegation is that some of these 'crime guns' have been used to commit crimes, up to and including murder. So under what legal theory are the police allowed to conspire to destroy the evidence of these crimes?

At the very least they should be tested for ballistics and associated with the name of the person who dropped them off, to give the homicide investigator something to go on -- or is 'getting guns off the street' somehow more important than solving murders and saving lives by locking up killers instead of guns?

Sounds good in theory, but realistically, ballistics testing isn't likely to solve any crimes.

I consider buybacks to be a fine way to support the firearms industry. You get paid for junk firearms so that you can go buy a decent one.

Peter.Steele
10-29-2010, 6:34 PM
Now here's a question ... what if these guns are stolen property? I'm sure that a lot of them are. Do they run the serial numbers prior to destruction? If one comes up as stolen, do they return it to its rightful owner or do they just destroy it?

Pig Rifle
10-29-2010, 7:08 PM
I dont believe it is illegal to photodocument or video tape those turning in unsecured firearms in a 626.9 gun free school zone.

Certainly would be entertaining even if it werent inside a school zone... Might give it the impression that it is a 'sting', rather than a 'buyback'.

This is a very interesting grassroots method of potentially countering this and similar events.

This is an awesome idea. And with Christmas just around the corner, they'll be doing a bunch of them just a short drive from here very soon! I'll post the results here on CGN. :D

Munk
10-29-2010, 7:19 PM
Now here's a question ... what if these guns are stolen property? I'm sure that a lot of them are. Do they run the serial numbers prior to destruction? If one comes up as stolen, do they return it to its rightful owner or do they just destroy it?

I hadn't thought about that until now. I hope to hell these cops are running the numbers and returning firearms to their rightful owners.

Glock22Fan
10-29-2010, 7:24 PM
I think it is the same as a "community organizer" but specializing in crime prevention.

You mean as opposed to organizing dead people to vote, he prevents dead people from committing crime?

Merc1138
10-29-2010, 7:41 PM
I'll take that bet!

And of course, none of them are going to be prosecuted... selective enforcement of the law.

What we need is to find someone who gets pulled over in front of a school on their way to a buyback and doesn't get arrested. That'd be some good ammunition to use in a lawsuit.

Hell, that's not the only law they're selecting to not enforce.

Isn't this transferring the firearm to another party? Without use of a proper PPT? I don't see how it matters if the party is going to just throw it in a pot to make rebar out of it, any other private citizen purchasing the firearm could do the same if they wanted to. I also don't recall ever seeing a "gun buyback loophole" allowing a police department to take ownership of firearms like they do in these buybacks.

Go figure.

Pig Rifle
10-29-2010, 7:47 PM
I hadn't thought about that until now. I hope to hell these cops are running the numbers and returning firearms to their rightful owners.

They claim to do this, but wouldn't ya think that we'd hear of (at least occasionally) this actually happening? Because I haven't. Not once. But if I'm wrong, I'd like to hear from anyone reading this who knows different.....

m1aowner
10-29-2010, 8:09 PM
More gift cards for guns probably. These buy backs don't seem to use cash anymore.

Merc1138
10-29-2010, 8:14 PM
More gift cards for guns probably. These buy backs don't seem to use cash anymore.

Even if it's giftcards, if I had the means to make AK flats and weld them, I'd do it. A $50 giftcard at target/walmart/whatever is $50 I don't have to spend out of my wallet for socks and underwear.

383green
10-29-2010, 8:15 PM
A $50 giftcard at target/walmart/whatever is $50 I don't have to spend out of my wallet for socks and underwear.

Or ammo. Just sayin'... ;)

ldivinag
10-29-2010, 8:22 PM
What exactly is a crime prevention specialist and what does it do?

first hand knowledge.

he's a CSO = comm service ofcr. not a cop.

but probably makes $70+ k...

sigh...

N6ATF
10-29-2010, 8:27 PM
Or ammo. Just sayin'... ;)

No frackin way would they give out AmmoMart gift cards... :rolleyes::TFH:

Merc1138
10-29-2010, 8:35 PM
In the Daily Review, I believe the article stated that the guns had to be operational.

Really, so they have a portable range to take down to the bart station to verify that the guns they're receiving are operational? I don't think so.

Saigon1965
10-29-2010, 9:01 PM
I was rummaging thru my things - But nothing in the 50.00 dept. - So I gues I'll be skipping this one -

383green
10-29-2010, 9:01 PM
Well, a flat is pretty clearly non-operational. But do the operational turn-in guns have to fire fixed cartridges, or would an operational muzzle-loader suffice? And is there any legal requirement for a muzzle-loading pistol barrel to be rifled? What about minimum barrel length? I mean, would the bastard offspring of a drunken interlude between a percussion cap gun and a Liberator pistol count? And would cheap .625" diameter mild steel bar stock be suitable for low-quality-but-somewhat-safe-to-fire .30 cal black powder pistol barrels? And will I ever get around to getting my old Brown & Sharpe No. 2G automatic screw machine up and running? :whistling:

GuyW
10-29-2010, 11:24 PM
Actually, I should do the buyback and use the money I get from that to get a decent version from Henry Survival Arms....

Um - the Henrys suck - the barrel is "plastic" with a liner. A Charter Arms is much better...

.

SJgunguy24
10-29-2010, 11:37 PM
According to my Google Map, there are no K-12 Schools within 1000' of So. Hayward BART.

Erik.

The school is on the other side of the tracks from the BART station. Hayward is a ghetto, I went to school there and the gangs were rampant back then 89-91 and it can't be much better now.
HPD has been known to crack down on crime(a good thing) but has done some of the dumbest things known to man. (gun fight on a freeway where cars on the other side of the freeway were struck)

A couple years ago there was 2 murders at the mall with one inside of a store.

Why don't they give out body armor instead of gift cards.

Durasteel
10-30-2010, 12:11 AM
Can we make easy money by turning in our own firearms and reporting them stolen? Not saying I'd do it... ;)

Maestro Pistolero
10-30-2010, 12:15 AM
My thoughts exactly:
Why is it that this collection of 'illegal' guns is not treated as a conspiracy to destroy evidence?

The allegation is that some of these 'crime guns' have been used to commit crimes, up to and including murder. So under what legal theory are the police allowed to conspire to destroy the evidence of these crimes?

At the very least they should be tested for ballistics and associated with the name of the person who dropped them off, to give the homicide investigator something to go on -- or is 'getting guns off the street' somehow more important than solving murders and saving lives by locking up killers instead of guns?
Isn't it funny that the same people who would fight for micro-stamping in order to identify firearms used in crime are willing to destroy unidentified firearms from a buyback without even attempting to find out whether they are stolen. WTF?

GW
10-30-2010, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by berto View Post
What exactly is a crime prevention specialist and what does it do?
I think it is the same as a "community organizer" but specializing in crime prevention.

And just as useful/effective

OleCuss
10-30-2010, 4:46 AM
Um - the Henrys suck - the barrel is "plastic" with a liner. A Charter Arms is much better...

.

There goes that idea. . .

N6ATF
10-30-2010, 8:06 AM
My thoughts exactly:

Isn't it funny that the same people who would fight for micro-stamping in order to identify firearms used in crime are willing to destroy unidentified firearms from a buyback without even attempting to find out whether they are stolen. WTF?


It's treasonous... victim disarmers wouldn't exist without being it.

Ibgreezy
10-30-2010, 8:28 AM
I live right down the street from that bart station, I think I'll check it out

AAShooter
10-30-2010, 8:35 AM
Perhaps an NRA recruiting table should be set up there!

AAShooter
10-30-2010, 8:36 AM
I live right down the street from that bart station, I think I'll check it out

Go video tape it. :D

ChipSlap
10-30-2010, 8:39 AM
1) The buyback is on a Saturday, not much danger for the kids in school.
2) In newspaper articles, the HPD says that they run all serial #s before meltdown.

I agree that Gun buybacks are ineffectual, but I have a couple of old POS revolvers I bought last year for $20 each that the HPD can have. It won't stop any crimes, but it will give me a $60 profit for a few minutes of my time.

AAShooter
10-30-2010, 8:40 AM
I wonder if they return stolen firearms to the owner if they can be ID'd?

ChipSlap
10-30-2010, 9:14 AM
Well, I'm here at the buyback. It's staffed by half a dozen officers with 3 or 4 civilian employees. Channel 5 news van is here. I'm number 31. Looks like a bunch of responsible citizens here, some wearing "Army" or "veteran" caps like myself. Nobody selling their items appears to be younger that 35. As we all know, it's young men who cause the vast majority of violence, so I don't think any violence will be prevented by this operation. Hope it makes them all feel better.

383green
10-30-2010, 9:24 AM
Maybe it would be good publicity to get on camera with the talking heads and happily tell them how you're turning in your junker guns in order to spend the proceeds on ammunition?

Peter.Steele
10-30-2010, 9:28 AM
Well, I'm here at the buyback. It's staffed by half a dozen officers with 3 or 4 civilian employees. Channel 5 news van is here. I'm number 31. Looks like a bunch of responsible citizens here, some wearing "Army" or "veteran" caps like myself. Nobody selling their items appears to be younger that 35. As we all know, it's young men who cause the vast majority of violence, so I don't think any violence will be prevented by this operation. Hope it makes them all feel better.



If you happen to see a nice stainless Sig-Sauer GSR, stainless, with rail please note the serial number and let me know? Especially if it has 4 half-blue USGI mags with it ...

GrizzlyGuy
10-30-2010, 9:57 AM
my thoughts exactly.

(also tempted to go down there and make better offers on some stuff for PPTs... try to snipe a good deal).

That worked once for pullnshoot25, check out what he scored (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3528559#post3528559). :cool:

creekside
10-30-2010, 10:20 AM
I wonder if they return stolen firearms to the owner if they can be ID'd?

According to a police employee present, "eventually."

This might be a good thing to test. In fact maybe someone did this today already, and is lurking to find out whether our gun(s) will be returned prior to next year's buyback.

Bizcuits
10-30-2010, 10:56 AM
Huh. Wonder how much they're paying...

Also equally curious what the going rate by their standards is...

wellerjohn
10-30-2010, 12:32 PM
I wish I had free access to a CNC laser cutter. I'd make a lot of AK flats out of scrap sheet metal and then turn them in, thus creating more safety. I'm just a giving person like that.

Just like a flea market, your on to something.:rolleyes:

Falstaff
10-30-2010, 12:56 PM
Sounds like a good spot for an open carry event!

ChipSlap
10-30-2010, 1:14 PM
One dude there was passing out NRA/ILA fliers. Was that one of us?

ryang
10-30-2010, 3:07 PM
I know some of the officers who worked the event today.

The only questions asked people were how they heard about the event and their ZIP code.

The vast majority of people turning stuff in did so because the firearms either belonged to their dead husbands or had been sitting in a closet unused for a very long time.

All firearms with serial numbers are run to ID them. If they come up stolen a genuine attempt is made to return them to their rightful owner.

All firearms have to be operational to get the $50.

A couple blackpowder firearms were turned in for cash.

dantodd
10-30-2010, 4:11 PM
Why bend an AK when a zip gun costs almost nothing to make.

Peter.Steele
10-30-2010, 4:21 PM
Why bend an AK when a zip gun costs almost nothing to make.

If I get stopped on the way there with a box full of off list AK receivers, I get a traffic ticket and go on my way, and I pay the ticket with the money I make. If I get stopped on the way there with a box full of zip guns, I get arrested, and I don't make it to the event to get my bail money.

dantodd
10-30-2010, 4:28 PM
Make 'em in the parking lot where the amnesty is in effect.

creekside
10-30-2010, 5:09 PM
One dude there was passing out NRA/ILA fliers. Was that one of us?

Maybe.

creekside
10-30-2010, 5:10 PM
The vast majority of people turning stuff in did so because the firearms either belonged to their dead husbands or had been sitting in a closet unused for a very long time.

One nice gentleman I spoke to was there to turn in a non-registered assault weapon. Most of what I saw piled up were rifles and shotguns.

bob7122
10-30-2010, 5:11 PM
someone should stand in front of the police and say hey we'll buy your guns at a higher price than the city lol

GOEX FFF
10-30-2010, 5:24 PM
I've never really understood why they're called "Buy Backs".
The state, city or local PD never owned them before, so what are they buying back?

N6ATF
10-30-2010, 6:27 PM
The right to return to a tyrannical dictatorship.

Veggie
10-30-2010, 6:54 PM
They should call it the Free Pass for Violent Criminals Drive.

Jonl
10-30-2010, 7:41 PM
They should now give us the guns since we are the ones paying for them.

ryang
10-30-2010, 8:13 PM
Funds used in the Hayward buyback come from private donations made by Hayward police officers, firemen and local businessmen.

N6ATF
10-30-2010, 8:55 PM
Then they should get a return on investment, pay the DOJ fees, and take possession of the non-stolen ones instead of melting them into slag as is usually the case.

teg767
10-30-2010, 9:58 PM
Local KTVU Channel 2 news shows scenes of the buyback program on the evening report. An officer pulls out a double barrel shotgun from a sack brought in by an old man riding a bike to the area. Next scene shows the officer being interviewed with a truck load of long firearms stacked on three boxes full. Mostly hunting rifle stocks on the background and they look nice and new. Third scene shows a Pistols, Tec-9 and a FAL with synthetic thumb hole stock. Makes me cry and say why, why, why.....

CalBear
10-31-2010, 8:59 AM
Local KTVU Channel 2 news shows scenes of the buyback program on the evening report. An officer pulls out a double barrel shotgun from a sack brought in by an old man riding a bike to the area. Next scene shows the officer being interviewed with a truck load of long firearms stacked on three boxes full. Mostly hunting rifle stocks on the background and they look nice and new. Third scene shows a Pistols, Tec-9 and a FAL with synthetic thumb hole stock. Makes me cry and say why, why, why.....
Their report stated that a wide variety of firearms were brought in, including a musket dating back to the revolutionary war. If someone gave a real musket from the 18th century to the cops for $50, they are probably the dumbest person alive today. I hope for their sake it was a replica. It wouldn't surprise me though. I've read other stories of some woman inheriting a historic LR from her father, having a ZOMG! It's a scary gun! moment, and turning it into the cops.

ryang
10-31-2010, 10:13 AM
Then they should get a return on investment, pay the DOJ fees, and take possession of the non-stolen ones instead of melting them into slag as is usually the case.
I guess I shouldn't be amazed at people who know, just simply know, what should be done without bothering with facts. But I continue to think the best of people despite how many times I'm shown otherwise.

ryang
10-31-2010, 10:19 AM
Their report stated that a wide variety of firearms were brought in, including a musket dating back to the revolutionary war.
Given the countless news reports you hear about "assault machine guns" and "rifle ammo that can penetrate bulletproof vests", why should you suddenly start believing them now? There were a couple of blackpowder firearms turned in but nothing made that long ago.

A previous buyback included a Dan Wesson .357 in a presentation box that contained 8", 6" and 4" barrels. It was clearly worth more than $50 and the officers working that event were sorry to see it destroyed. But part of the "no questions asked" policy includes asking "Could you please sell this to a gun dealer?"

CitaDeL
10-31-2010, 10:37 AM
This is a very interesting grassroots method of potentially countering this and similar events.

Pleased you think so.

I was thinking much could be accomplished with a couple of clean cut guys set up in view of the buy back- both in button down shirts and slacks wearing vests/plate carriers perhaps with a spotting scope and a note pad or a camera with a prominantly conspicuous lens. Closer to the action there could be a spoiler/schill- deliberately asking within earshot of the participants, "Are you going to photograph everyone who brings back a gun?" as people approach.

CalBear
10-31-2010, 10:59 AM
Given the countless news reports you hear about "assault machine guns" and "rifle ammo that can penetrate bulletproof vests", why should you suddenly start believing them now?
Point taken.

ryang
10-31-2010, 12:09 PM
They should now give us the guns since we are the ones paying for them.

Then they should get a return on investment, pay the DOJ fees, and take possession of the non-stolen ones instead of melting them into slag as is usually the case.

I thought some more about why these posts bother me so much. Does the following sound familar?

1. Pre-formed personal opinions more important than facts.
2. Doesn't bother to learn facts--after all, you already have your opinion on the subject.
3. Doesn't let facts interfere with those opinions or twists them to suit their views.

This is what we deplore about the gun-control crowd. I find it bothers me more when we do the same. We should be better than them. Jonl assumed gov't funds were used for this buyback without even bothering to ask if that was the case. N6ATF thinks the people who did donate funds had no idea the guns would be melted for scrap and would want to keep the better ones. C'mon guys, we should be better than this.

Makes me cry and say why, why, why.....

I (think) like most people here, we hear about gun buybacks and think they're a shame. We like guns and we hate to see them destroyed. But after learning more about this particular gun buyback with an open mind, I now think they can be a good thing. Heretical I know but allow me to explain.

We like guns. We enjoy shooting them and strongly believe in responsible ownership. Most of the people turning in guns don't enjoy shooting them. A large percentage aren't responsible owners.

1. Let's say you have a sawed off weapon. You can't legally sell it and honest gunsmiths won't want to touch it to make it legal. Better to take it to a gun buyback than sell it to a gangbanger.
2. Same applies to a stolen weapon. And there's a bonus where the legal owner might get it back.
3. Weapons that you don't want and finding a buyer is too much hassle. There were lots of bolt action shotguns, shoddy pistols none of us would want to own/shoot, rusted stuff and general junk. No one wants it and even though it can't be easily traced back (a lot were made before serial numbers) you can't just throw it in the trash. Gun buybacks are a great way to dispose of them and most of the weapons turned in fit this category.
4. Irresponsible owners. There was one lady who turned in a loaded .22 rifle. She thought it was unloaded but never bothered to check. She told a story of how her husband had a ND in their house with it and almost hit her. People like this should not own firearms. I'm glad she doesn't since people like this give gun owners a bad image.
5. It's a good way to safely dispose of inoperable firearms and unwanted ammo. They don't get money for them, but Joe Average doesn't have a convenient way to properly destroy an inoperable firearm. And old ammo that's been sitting in a closet is stuff no one wants to use.

Yes you will see the occasional firearm that is a shame to destroy but they are rare in comparison to the scenarios above. In yesterday's buyback at most 3% fit that category. So overall I now think gun buybacks serve a useful purpose. By and large these are not servicable weapons that you or I would want to own. Given a choice between putting them in the hands of criminals or irresponsible owners, or melting them to slag, I choose the latter.

ryang
10-31-2010, 12:15 PM
I was thinking much could be accomplished with a couple of guys set up in view of the buy back with a note pad or a camera with a prominantly conspicuous lens. Closer to the action there could be a spoiler/schill- deliberately asking within earshot of the participants, "Are you going to photograph everyone who brings back a gun?" as people approach.

Exactly who do you think this would deter? People who legally own the firearm they wish to turn in? Or people with illegal guns or are prohibited from legally owning them?

So let me get this straight: you want felons and people with stolen firearms to keep them? Bravo.

383green
10-31-2010, 12:22 PM
By and large these are not servicable weapons that you or I would want to own.

Do you have evidence to support that assertion?

N6ATF
10-31-2010, 1:05 PM
N6ATF thinks the people who did donate funds had no idea the guns would be melted for scrap and would want to keep the better ones. C'mon guys, we should be better than this.

Don't tell me what I think.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/fail-owned-jihad-fail.jpg

ryang
10-31-2010, 3:46 PM
Do you have evidence to support that assertion?
No objective evidence I could show you. Excluding illegal stuff, yesterday's buyback was mostly: bolt action shotguns, single shot shotguns, various old (50+ yrs) .22 rifles, true "saturday night special" .22 revolvers that would not be comfortable or accurate to shoot, etc. None of them very well maintained, quite a few sporting rust. Several bolt action rifles that required a hammer to pry open the rusted bolt. Lots of dings, gouges and other signs of abuse/neglect. It may be that I simply have higher standards but I would not want them even for free. Not just because even new they wouldn't interest me but also because I couldn't be sure they were safe to shoot.

You are certainly welcome to visit a future buyback to see what kind of stuff comes in. It sounds like creekside was there and could chime in regarding what he saw. They had some of the more "sensational" items arranged on a tailgate for media to photograph but behind that were over a hundred longarms stuck barrel first into boxes.

383green
10-31-2010, 3:55 PM
I'd be interested in a bolt-action shotgun. I don't have one of those yet. I collect curio and relic firearms, and I'm no stranger to determining whether an old gun is likely to be unsafe to shoot. It's not rocket science, after all. So, aside from a few rifles that were rusted shut, it sounds like lots of interesting old guns.

I consider a gun buy-back to be comparable to a book-burning. While a book-burning might be a convenient way to get rid of one's unwanted heretical texts, it fosters disrespect for a fundamental right and perpetuates ignorant ideas about objects having some inherent evil separate from the actions of their owners.

DocSkinner
10-31-2010, 4:26 PM
I've never really understood why they're called "Buy Backs".
The state, city or local PD never owned them before, so what are they buying back?

Because all guns belong to the government, so they are just getting them back?

CitaDeL
10-31-2010, 5:33 PM
Exactly who do you think this would deter? People who legally own the firearm they wish to turn in? Or people with illegal guns or are prohibited from legally owning them?

So let me get this straight: you want felons and people with stolen firearms to keep them? Bravo.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this or is this not an ideal circumstance for criminals to dispose of a weapon used in an unsolved murder or other violent crime by exploiting the clear amnesty that the authorities are offering?

So, what would your preference be? A felon or criminal in possession of the evidence that could be used against them to ensure a conviction or a criminal using the the bogus buyback to destroy evidence linking them to any crime?

I believe that detering cooperation with organized efforts to remove firearms from the 'streets' will make the law-abiding reconsider taking the gun into a firearms dealer (would be helpful if they were on the spot) as well as freak out the bad guys who deserve to sweat out their guilt for their criminal enterprises.

These gun 'buybacks' do not make the public 'safer' no matter how you spin it. A felon in possession of a stolen gun or a gun used in a crime (or even one that hasnt) is a GOOD thing- because it establishes a chain of evidence that will build a case against them in court if they happen to be caught with it.

Pig Rifle
10-31-2010, 6:56 PM
Bolt-action shotguns? Saturday Night Specials? Hey ryang, do you know what a barrel shroud is? Hahahahaha....

onedavetoomany
10-31-2010, 7:01 PM
I live a few miles away from South Hayward BART. Last year, our house was burglarized and several firearms were among the items stolen. If the thief sold my guns to the Hayward Police, would the police be required to return them to me? The serial numbers were given in the original police report.

GOEX FFF
10-31-2010, 7:12 PM
Bolt-action shotguns? Saturday Night Specials? Hey ryang, do you know what a barrel shroud is? Hahahahaha....


In all fairness... yes, there have been a number of Bolt action shotguns made.
Mossberg making the most.. such as -

Mossberg Model 190
Mossberg 195K-A
Mossberg 185 D-B
Mossberg 20 gauge Model 85-A

There are more...

Marlin (Glenfield) also made the Model 55 SuperGoose that was a bolt action shotgun.
As well as other companies such as JC Higgins... and Stevens with their Mod.59A in .410.

sv_1
11-01-2010, 10:34 AM
Bolt-action shotguns? Saturday Night Specials? Hey ryang, do you know what a barrel shroud is? Hahahahaha....

If you'd like to borrow mine to go crow hunting, id be more than happy to oblige ;)

Though it lacks a shoulder thingie...

Shadowdrop
11-01-2010, 10:50 AM
What a great way to get rid of a murder weapon...

Wherryj
11-01-2010, 11:46 AM
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2010/10/29/hayward-police-holding-gun-buy-back-event


Perhaps the time to sell some AK flats :)



Hayward Police Holding Gun Buy-Back Event
October 29, 2010 12:39 PM

HAYWARD (BCN) – Police are attempting to disarm dangerous situations in Hayward before they happen through the department’s annual gun buy-back event set to take place Saturday.

The guns will be accepted on a “no questions asked” basis, and all firearms are ultimately destroyed, according to police.

To date, the Police Department has retired 700 unwanted firearms.

“These are guns that will not fall into the hands of gang members or other criminals and can never become the instrument of a tragic event,” crime prevention specialist Rick Blanton said in a statement.

The event was scheduled to take place Saturday from 10 a.m. until 3 p.m. at the South Hayward BART station overflow parking lot, which is located across the street from the station on Dixon Street.

* * * * *
How's that working Hayward? With this annual buy back, I'd assume that they've "disarmed" pretty much every dangerous situation in Hayward by now?

Wherryj
11-01-2010, 11:48 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but is this or is this not an ideal circumstance for criminals to dispose of a weapon used in an unsolved murder or other violent crime by exploiting the clear amnesty that the authorities are offering?

So, what would your preference be? A felon or criminal in possession of the evidence that could be used against them to ensure a conviction or a criminal using the the bogus buyback to destroy evidence linking them to any crime?

I believe that detering cooperation with organized efforts to remove firearms from the 'streets' will make the law-abiding reconsider taking the gun into a firearms dealer (would be helpful if they were on the spot) as well as freak out the bad guys who deserve to sweat out their guilt for their criminal enterprises.

These gun 'buybacks' do not make the public 'safer' no matter how you spin it. A felon in possession of a stolen gun or a gun used in a crime (or even one that hasnt) is a GOOD thing- because it establishes a chain of evidence that will build a case against them in court if they happen to be caught with it.
It is indeed a perfect way for a criminal to dispose of a murder weapon-NO questions asked AND they get PAID for it.

383green
11-01-2010, 11:53 AM
It is indeed a perfect way for a criminal to dispose of a murder weapon-NO questions asked AND they get PAID for it.

A great opportunity, indeed, for any criminals who are too stupid to figure out how to render their murder weapon unrecognizable with a stolen angle grinder or welding torch.

Monte
11-01-2010, 1:12 PM
I consider a gun buy-back to be comparable to a book-burning. While a book-burning might be a convenient way to get rid of one's unwanted heretical texts, it fosters disrespect for a fundamental right and perpetuates ignorant ideas about objects having some inherent evil separate from the actions of their owners.

I couldn't agree more. Very well put.

dfletcher
11-01-2010, 1:50 PM
Gee, there's a term out there for an operation that takes in often stolen merchendise and gives back just a few cents on the dollar. I think it's illegal. Hmm, now what's that called ......?

AAShooter
11-01-2010, 1:51 PM
. . . I consider a gun buy-back to be comparable to a book-burning. While a book-burning might be a convenient way to get rid of one's unwanted heretical texts, it fosters disrespect for a fundamental right and perpetuates ignorant ideas about objects having some inherent evil separate from the actions of their owners.

Well stated . . . I wish I had written that.

383green
11-01-2010, 2:07 PM
Gee, there's a term out there for an operation that takes in often stolen merchendise and gives back just a few cents on the dollar. I think it's illegal. Hmm, now what's that called ......?

Fence.

Havoc70
11-01-2010, 2:29 PM
So how much has crime dropped in Hayward since this event? My bet is on 0%.

N6ATF
11-01-2010, 3:02 PM
Probably increased. The wolves now know there's a whole bunch more unarmed sheep to eat.

ryang
11-01-2010, 4:13 PM
I live a few miles away from South Hayward BART. Last year, our house was burglarized and several firearms were among the items stolen. If the thief sold my guns to the Hayward Police, would the police be required to return them to me? The serial numbers were given in the original police report.
Assuming your contact info hasn't changed then yes, you would be notified and be able to get them back.

ryang
11-01-2010, 4:22 PM
So, what would your preference be? A felon or criminal in possession of the evidence that could be used against them to ensure a conviction or a criminal using the the bogus buyback to destroy evidence linking them to any crime?
As another person mentioned, it's pretty easy to destroy the barrel or otherwise prevent a ballistic match. Or they could just sell it to someone else and let them take the heat for it. There is the possibility what you describe could happen but I think the benefits I mentioned previously outweigh that.

I believe that detering cooperation with organized efforts to remove firearms from the 'streets' will make the law-abiding reconsider taking the gun into a firearms dealer.
There was one guy who mentioned he tried several times to sell his firearms but didn't get any takers. So the buyback was the only way he could "sell" them.

These gun 'buybacks' do not make the public 'safer' no matter how you spin it.
In the case of the lady who was almost shot by her husband's ND and turned in a loaded .22 rifle she thought was unloaded, yes I would say it makes the public safer. We recognize the responsibility that comes with firearm ownership. Not everyone who owns a firearm is responsible and if they want to stop owning them I'm all for it.

So how much has crime dropped in Hayward since this event? My bet is on 0%.
I do not believe gun buybacks have a significant effect on reducing crime. I never said they did.

Wherryj
11-01-2010, 4:31 PM
Originally Posted by dfletcher
Gee, there's a term out there for an operation that takes in often stolen merchendise and gives back just a few cents on the dollar. I think it's illegal. Hmm, now what's that called ......?



Fence.

Income tax?

N6ATF
11-01-2010, 4:45 PM
BAHAHAHAHA

ryang
11-01-2010, 4:45 PM
I consider a gun buy-back to be comparable to a book-burning. While a book-burning might be a convenient way to get rid of one's unwanted heretical texts, it fosters disrespect for a fundamental right and perpetuates ignorant ideas about objects having some inherent evil separate from the actions of their owners.
Prior to this event I had similar viewpoints. But the Hayward buyback changed my mind. I think the scenarios I described before are a real benefit.

Keep in mind I'm only talking about the Hayward buyback since that's the only one I have experience with. The book-burning analogy fails because it's focus is to say those books are bad and destroying them is good. Except for the illegal weapons (eg. sawed off stuff) that wasn't the case with the Hayward buyback. It was more like donating to Goodwill where people had stuff they didn't want any more and trying to sell it any other way was more trouble than it was worth. Easily 90% of the people fit that category. On the flip side, there were some firearms turned in that the people working the event were sorry to see destroyed. That's about as far from a book burning mentality as you can get.

One thing we complain about is the gun control folks have the attitude of, "I don't like firearms so I don't want you to have them." Our response has usually been, "If you don't like them fine, but don't infringe on my choice to own them if I want." Just as we want to have the choice to legally own firearms, we should also let people who have firearms make the choice to stop owning them. No one is forcing people to go to a buyback. No one is saying this is the only (or best) way to get rid of them. But it's an option that exists for people who want to take it. We're big on freedom of choice. Even if you personally think it's a mistake let them make their own choice.

As I said in the beginning, I used to think nothing good came out of gun buybacks. But now I think there is some good that comes out of them. If you think any of the five scenarios I described are invalid please let me know. I don't think they are.

GOEX FFF
11-01-2010, 5:16 PM
I consider a gun buy-back to be comparable to a book-burning. While a book-burning might be a convenient way to get rid of one's unwanted heretical texts, it fosters disrespect for a fundamental right and perpetuates ignorant ideas about objects having some inherent evil separate from the actions of their owners.
The book-burning analogy fails because it's focus is to say those books are bad and destroying them is good. Except for the illegal weapons (eg. sawed off stuff) that wasn't the case with the Hayward buyback.

When it comes down to it, the one main purpose of these gun "buy-backs" are to get as many (illegal or not) "off the street" and destroyed.
It's the city trying to get rid of the perceived "Bad" for the perceived notion that it's for the "Good". The book burning analogy is fair in retrospect.

Aside from the book burnings in 1933 Germany using this same perception,
the burning of nearly 1 million scrolls and the Library of Alexandria in the 4th century, when Christianity perceived the written word of science as being a threat to "Religion" and their ideologies......when many did not.
The city (and most gun-grabbers for that matter) see firearms as a threat to "Public safety" and their ideologies.......when many do not.
Sure, one could argue that the scrolls at Alexandria weren't voluntarily turned in like firearms at a buy-back, but the underlying procedure of the purpose for destruction still remains.


It was more like donating to Goodwill where people had stuff they didn't want any more and trying to sell it any other way was more trouble than it was worth.

If it was just "Stuff", then it should have been called a "Consumer Household Buy-Back". And if it was like Goodwill, then the firearms that come back clean should be donated to local shooting clubs or organisations like Boy Scouts of America or Appleseed. How is it Goodwill when the majority (ALL?) of the property is being destroyed, ignoring anyone in "need" of them?

On the flip side, there were some firearms turned in that the people working the event were sorry to see destroyed.

Id put money on it that the vast majority, (aside from maybe a few volunteers taking them in) that put on these buy backs don't care and are happy to destroy as many as they can.
These aren't collectors or hobbyists taking the arms in that may be sad to see the "nice ones" go, it's ALSO about the numbers they get.

One thing we complain about is the gun control folks have the attitude of, "I don't like firearms so I don't want you to have them." Our response has usually been, "If you don't like them fine, but don't infringe on my choice RIGHT to own them if I want."

Just as we want to have the choice RIGHT to legally own firearms, we should also let people who have firearms make the choice to stop owning them. No one is forcing people to go to a buyback. No one is saying this is the only (or best) way to get rid of them. But it's an option that exists for people who want to take it. We're big on freedom of choice. Even if you personally think it's a mistake let them make their own choice.

Fixed it for you...

dfletcher
11-01-2010, 5:42 PM
Prior to this event I had similar viewpoints. But the Hayward buyback changed my mind. I think the scenarios I described before are a real benefit.

Keep in mind I'm only talking about the Hayward buyback since that's the only one I have experience with. The book-burning analogy fails because it's focus is to say those books are bad and destroying them is good. Except for the illegal weapons (eg. sawed off stuff) that wasn't the case with the Hayward buyback. It was more like donating to Goodwill where people had stuff they didn't want any more and trying to sell it any other way was more trouble than it was worth. Easily 90% of the people fit that category. On the flip side, there were some firearms turned in that the people working the event were sorry to see destroyed. That's about as far from a book burning mentality as you can get.

One thing we complain about is the gun control folks have the attitude of, "I don't like firearms so I don't want you to have them." Our response has usually been, "If you don't like them fine, but don't infringe on my choice to own them if I want." Just as we want to have the choice to legally own firearms, we should also let people who have firearms make the choice to stop owning them. No one is forcing people to go to a buyback. No one is saying this is the only (or best) way to get rid of them. But it's an option that exists for people who want to take it. We're big on freedom of choice. Even if you personally think it's a mistake let them make their own choice.

As I said in the beginning, I used to think nothing good came out of gun buybacks. But now I think there is some good that comes out of them. If you think any of the five scenarios I described are invalid please let me know. I don't think they are.

There are quite a few hits regardingthe buyback, I picked the first one.

According to the Hayward Police ALL GUNS ARE DESTROYED - there is no effort made to get guns back to their legal owners. I wonder how folks would react if the police took the same position regarding cars, jewelry, watches or anything else turned in under a "no questions asked policy"?

The folks doing the work were polite. Nice but not relevent. The emphasis, as expressed in the media by the police, is to destroy guns because guns end up in the hands of criminals and gang members - that's what they said. And they mean ALL guns because obviously, the police don't know in advance which guns are going to be turned in, which guns could be used illegally. According to the police quoted in the newspaper, reducing the number of guns in the hands of private citizens reduces the number that may be used by bad people - that's their approach.

The way it is promoted to the public, deliberately by the police to the media is "guns are bad" and whether they soft soap it at the scene is not important.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2010/10/29/hayward-police-holding-gun-buy-back-event/

charliedontsurf334
11-01-2010, 8:18 PM
Maybe they'll do like what Oakland did over CHristmas of 2008 and give $250 per gun. It's a good money making opportunity.

creekside
11-01-2010, 10:42 PM
According to the Hayward Police ALL GUNS ARE DESTROYED - there is no effort made to get guns back to their legal owners.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2010/10/29/hayward-police-holding-gun-buy-back-event/

The media got it wrong. I personally spoke to a civilian property clerk with Hayward PD on the day of the event and asked him this question.

He stated that serial numbers would be checked and that an effort would be made to "eventually" reunite stolen firearms with their owners.

I was very careful to check this exact point, because I find 'buy backs' distasteful myself.

creekside
11-01-2010, 10:52 PM
No objective evidence I could show you. Excluding illegal stuff, yesterday's buyback was mostly: bolt action shotguns, single shot shotguns, various old (50+ yrs) .22 rifles, true "saturday night special" .22 revolvers that would not be comfortable or accurate to shoot, etc. None of them very well maintained, quite a few sporting rust. Several bolt action rifles that required a hammer to pry open the rusted bolt. Lots of dings, gouges and other signs of abuse/neglect. It may be that I simply have higher standards but I would not want them even for free. Not just because even new they wouldn't interest me but also because I couldn't be sure they were safe to shoot.

Anyone who stayed awake in a criminology course can tell you that the vast majority of violent crime is committed with handguns.

(Interesting discussion of this and many other facts of varying quality at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States)

You are certainly welcome to visit a future buyback to see what kind of stuff comes in. It sounds like creekside was there and could chime in regarding what he saw. They had some of the more "sensational" items arranged on a tailgate for media to photograph but behind that were over a hundred longarms stuck barrel first into boxes.

So if this event was 'non-political' as a Hayward PD employee claimed, why was a photo op of 'sensational' items staged on the tailgate of a government-owned camper shell pickup truck? I wondered what they were doing over there . . .

. . . because what I saw prior to that truck pulling up was a bunch of long guns in a cardboard box in the back of a pickup truck, pretty much as you describe.

Cherry-picking the 'evil looking guns' is about as political as it gets.

N6ATF
11-01-2010, 10:57 PM
He stated that serial numbers would be checked and that an effort would be made to "eventually" reunite stolen firearms with their owners.

Freudian slip. Seen more than enough threads on here about extremely delayed LEGRs and nearly needing to request a writ to get guns returned to their owners...

dantodd
11-01-2010, 11:07 PM
Cherry-picking the 'evil looking guns' is about as political as it gets.

You might be making too large an assumption that they were cherry picked and not brought in by the police for display purposes.

NightOwl
11-02-2010, 1:16 AM
is it frowned upon to go there and offer people more money than the cops are offering? I know many people talk about it but I havent heard of anyone doing it. So i was just wondering whether it was a fond wish or if people really do this.

It has happened before, in southern california. A few nice guns were purchased at a good price from what I heard.

Dreaded Claymore
11-02-2010, 1:44 AM
I consider a gun buy-back to be comparable to a book-burning. While a book-burning might be a convenient way to get rid of one's unwanted heretical texts, it fosters disrespect for a fundamental right and perpetuates ignorant ideas about objects having some inherent evil separate from the actions of their owners.

If I was running things in Washington, these words would be rendered in mosaic and added to the decoration in the Library of Congress (by far the most beautiful building in DC, at least on the inside, if you ever go there don't miss it). They'd also be carved in stone and put on the outside of the National Shooting Range that I would build.

ryang
11-02-2010, 6:05 AM
The way it is promoted to the public, deliberately by the police to the media is "guns are bad" and whether they soft soap it at the scene is not important.
This goes into intent versus result. Much like gun control people probably believe they have good intent but we perceive what they do has a harmful result.

Ignoring the intent (which I agree is shakey at best) I believe there are good results that come from buybacks. I didn't think that way before but with an open mind I was able see some value.


1. Let's say you have a sawed off weapon. You can't legally sell it and honest gunsmiths won't want to touch it to make it legal. Better to take it to a gun buyback than sell it to a gangbanger.
2. Same applies to a stolen weapon. And there's a bonus where the legal owner might get it back.
3. Weapons that you don't want and finding a buyer is too much hassle. There were lots of bolt action shotguns, shoddy pistols none of us would want to own/shoot, rusted stuff and general junk. No one wants it and even though it can't be easily traced back (a lot were made before serial numbers) you can't just throw it in the trash. Gun buybacks are a great way to dispose of them and most of the weapons turned in fit this category.
4. Irresponsible owners. There was one lady who turned in a loaded .22 rifle. She thought it was unloaded but never bothered to check. She told a story of how her husband had a ND in their house with it and almost hit her. People like this should not own firearms. I'm glad she doesn't since people like this give gun owners a bad image.
5. It's a good way to safely dispose of inoperable firearms and unwanted ammo. They don't get money for them, but Joe Average doesn't have a convenient way to properly destroy an inoperable firearm. And old ammo that's been sitting in a closet is stuff no one wants to use.

ryang
11-02-2010, 6:10 AM
why was a photo op of 'sensational' items staged on the tailgate of a government-owned camper shell pickup truck?
Cherry-picking the 'evil looking guns' is about as political as it gets.
Sorry but your personal bias is showing here. "Sensational" is not equal to "evil looking". Unless you consider a rusted out blackpowder Kentucky rifle evil looking. It was more "let's pick out the widest assortment of stuff to show the range of items that were turned in".

You might be making too large an assumption that they were cherry picked and not brought in by the police for display purposes.
More personal bias, this time with tinfoil.

creekside
11-02-2010, 7:01 AM
Sorry but your personal bias is showing here. "Sensational" is not equal to "evil looking". Unless you consider a rusted out blackpowder Kentucky rifle evil looking. It was more "let's pick out the widest assortment of stuff to show the range of items that were turned in".

I did not see the items laid out on the tailgate. You picked the term 'sensational' for the items police chose to display. Who am I to disagree with your choice of words?

Also, I cheerfully admit personal bias and so should you, or why are you here? This is the 2nd Amendment forum, after all, and this is protected political speech and not an academic paper.

dfletcher
11-02-2010, 3:57 PM
This goes into intent versus result. Much like gun control people probably believe they have good intent but we perceive what they do has a harmful result.

Ignoring the intent (which I agree is shakey at best) I believe there are good results that come from buybacks. I didn't think that way before but with an open mind I was able see some value.

Absent being able to look into the future, how can one with certainty see good results unless one agrees with the general principle that guns cause crime and eliminating them en masse is good? The individually turned in gun that "could have been used" badly might just as well been used to defend oneself and now absent that gun, one is injured.

I think the point of whether these guns are destroyed or not needs to be addressed. Hayward did buybacks in 07, 08 and 09 - I'd be curious to know how many guns were destroyed, how many were returned to their owners.

stix213
11-02-2010, 4:24 PM
Damn wished I didn't miss this. I probably would have brought down my POS jam-o-matic GSG5, and told them the money was going toward a Sig 522 :p

ryang
11-03-2010, 5:54 AM
Absent being able to look into the future, how can one with certainty see good results unless one agrees with the general principle that guns cause crime and eliminating them en masse is good?

I do not believe guns cause crime. I do not believe eliminating them en masse is good. Nor do I believe gun buybacks reduce crime. Those may be the perceived intent of buybacks but I'm talking about actual results.

I do see good results from the buyback. It allows people who have firearms they no longer want and no one else is willing to buy to dispose of them. It allows people who are irresponsible with firearms to stop being irresponsible.

ryang
11-03-2010, 5:55 AM
I probably would have brought down my POS jam-o-matic GSG5, and told them the money was going toward a Sig 522

Even as a jam-o-matic I'll buy your POS GSG5 for $50. Deal? :)

N6ATF
11-03-2010, 8:06 AM
I do not believe guns cause crime. I do not believe eliminating them en masse is good. Nor do I believe gun buybacks reduce crime. Those may be the perceived intent of buybacks but I'm talking about actual results.

I do see good results from the buyback. It allows people who have firearms they no longer want and no one else is willing to buy to dispose of them. It allows people who are irresponsible with firearms to stop being irresponsible.

Were you there? Who's to say they were irresponsible? Were they handing them to the cops barrel first with fingers on triggers? I haven't read about any officer-involved shootings.

I'd rather have a thousand "irresponsible" law-abiding citizens with guns than telling criminals their job just got a thousand households safer.

MidnightSon117
11-03-2010, 8:13 AM
So no need for micro-stamping anymore, since the evidence will be destroyed, no questions asked. We don't want to catch you, we want to pay you. Well done, HPD!

MidnightSon117
11-03-2010, 8:21 AM
Oh one more thing, no questions asked on removed serial numbers? No Felony? Awesome, HPD can now violate Federal Law. Superlative, HPD!

Milsurp Collector
11-03-2010, 9:43 AM
It was more like donating to Goodwill where people had stuff they didn't want any more and trying to sell it any other way was more trouble than it was worth.

Goodwill does not DESTROY every item that is donated to them. Goodwill makes a lot of money reselling items donated to them. Only if the item is unusable/unsellable is it DESTROYED. It is the wanton DESTRUCTION of firearms that might be valuable to someone that many here find objectionable.

You have admitted that these buybacks have zero effect on crime. The vast majority of firearms being turned in for DESTRUCTION (bolt-action rifles, rimfire rifles, old shotguns, Dan Wesson revolvers in presentation cases, etc. etc.) are not the types of firearms used in crimes, but they could be desirable as collector items or just as shooters. It's not the potential buyer/collector's fault that the owner is unmotivated or uninformed about better ways of disposing of their unwanted firearm, be it a valuable collector piece or just a humble but functional shooter. Law enforcement is in a unique position to create a win-win situation by facilitating the transfer of some of these firearms to new owners, but instead they work to advance the cause of people who wish all firearms would just disappear.

The percentage of collectible or valuable items might be small, but it is still nauseating and repulsive that any of them will be DESTROYED along with the "junk". Imagine some widow of a World War II vet bringing in her husband's war trophy original matching K98k, or Luger, or Arisaka to a buyback. They are just some old guns to her. The police will check the serial numbers, see that they aren't stolen, shrug their shoulders, and then toss them into the pile to be DESTROYED. Effect on crime or benefit to public safety: zero. Loss to collectors: significant. Collector piece or junk, they all meet the same fate: DESTRUCTION.

Prior to this event I had similar viewpoints. But the Hayward buyback changed my mind. I think the scenarios I described before are a real benefit.

As I said in the beginning, I used to think nothing good came out of gun buybacks. But now I think there is some good that comes out of them.

Police have a whole infrastructure for auctioning goods seized from criminals. Too bad law enforcement prefers to facilitate the DESTRUCTION of firearms that they could at least try to sell first before sending them to the smelter. It's a loss to shooters, a loss to collectors, a loss of income to law enforcement agencies, with minimal effects on crime or enhancement to public safety. All for a publicity stunt. That any fan of firearms could find these gun buybacks to be a good thing is very disappointing.

joedogboy
11-03-2010, 10:00 AM
It's probably not worth the trip, but I've got an old .22LR I don't want anymore - if they are paying enough and they'll take out of towners. . .

You don't think you'd get $50 for it by selling it here?

joedogboy
11-03-2010, 10:07 AM
I do see good results from the buyback. It allows people who have firearms they no longer want and no one else is willing to buy to dispose of them. It allows people who are irresponsible with firearms to stop being irresponsible.

And how does this manage to do this in a manner that selling it to a gun shop or PPTing it to a collector wouldn't?

I don't think that your "no one else is willing to buy" scenario is really applicable.

A more efficient method would be for the PD to perform the buybacks through local gun shops - the LEA would refer citizens to the gun shop, the gun shop would give $50 for a "worthless" firearm, and might give more for a firearm that they could sell. The gun shop could then periodically turn over the "worthless" firearms to the LEA and be reimbursed the $50.

In fact, I think that this should be the only way that LEAs should be able to do these buybacks - through a FFL with a brick and mortar business in the community (city/county).

Also, shouldn't the PD be paying PPT fees and DEROS fees for each of these guns, unless they hold an FFL and business license?

MyMalteseFalcon
01-22-2011, 10:13 PM
Gee, Maybe I should show up waving a handful of money in my hand so I can attract ppl into selling me their "unwanted guns"...

Hell of a way to pick up clunkers, strip 'em down and sell off the parts!

One would never know what's out there that's "unwanted"!!!

Ibgreezy
01-23-2011, 12:21 AM
I wonder if anybody ever brought in any assult weapons?

greasemonkey
01-23-2011, 12:51 AM
I'm pretty sure the Los Zetas & The New Federation saw the benefit in turning in their full auto unregistered rifles, explosive devices and body armor(mostly due to the harsher penalty for wearing body armor during commission of a crime) for a no-questions-asked $100 per item. The gun buy-back program helped them realize the need for everyone to see that we should all practice hugs, not violence.:D

I imagine at some point a man has died & left an unreg'd AR to his family...I wonder if those heirlooms were lost in a boating accident, got turned in or were stored "out of state".

I wonder if anybody ever brought in any assult weapons?

donny douchebag
01-23-2011, 7:03 AM
ryang, I agree with and support everything you've said. It's nice to see another gun owner on the forum. Seems we're a minority here.

Cos
01-23-2011, 11:29 AM
A great opportunity, indeed, for any criminals who are too stupid to figure out how to render their murder weapon unrecognizable with a stolen angle grinder or welding torch.

Do we observe yet another effect of the law of unintended consequences? ;)

R5CYA
01-23-2011, 2:23 PM
Gee, Maybe I should show up waving a handful of money in my hand so I can attract ppl into selling me their "unwanted guns"...

i don't think i'd stand around the hayward bart waving money around even if the police were there. let alone two months after the gun buyback when it's just you and the homies there!:D

Mendo223
01-23-2011, 8:27 PM
It's probably not worth the trip, but I've got an old .22LR I don't want anymore - if they are paying enough and they'll take out of towners. . .

dude dont do that.. does it fire? il buy that for 50 bucks PM me!

MyMalteseFalcon
01-23-2011, 8:41 PM
I was just being funny...You wouldn't catch me 5 miles from the place. If people want to get rid of junk guns I don't care.

All I know is that NO one but God will be able to pry my weapons from me.

Sad thing is that there may be a few jewels that get turned it. But other wise they'll all be junk worth melting down.

I'd rather spend my money on new toys then throw it away on clunkers.

i don't think i'd stand around the hayward bart waving money around even if the police were there. let alone two months after the gun buyback when it's just you and the homies there!:D