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View Full Version : Clarification on PPT and IFT of off-list handguns


loose_electron
10-29-2010, 11:10 AM
After reading the Wiki on this and all I am a little clearer on certain things and still confused about others.

First -- An in the family transfer (father to son, no brothers) seems to be able to take place across state lines if the family member ships the gun to a FFL and then the FFL can legally generate a DROS of an off-list gun.

OK, that may be useful, considering my father live in Florida.

Second -- A PPT (private party transfer) of an off list gun can be made between two california residents. (Genrate DROS in PPT at your local FFL)

As I understand the law, the owner of the gun that is off-list had to obtain possession legally in CA by one of a couple of methods - Be a LEO, family transfer, or "grandfathered in"

Now the question I am trying to answer - Somebody is offering for sale an off list gun in a PPT (here on the forum), the gun is new and unused, and I know nothing about the seller.

Lets say I meet with the seller at a firearms store with FFL and willing to DROS for a PPT. Agree on price, pay the seller, and hand the gun to the store for DROS paperwork and 10 day wait period.

At this point the gun gets entered into the "system" (CA DOJ computers I presume) and either goes through properly as a PPT of an off-list weapon, or the process generates a red flag that the gun was possessed improperly by the seller.

The seller is gone, I am out the purchase price and the gun is stuck in limbo?
Some clarification of the process here would be appreciated.

Sorry if this has already been asked!

thanks!
Jerry

ke6guj
10-29-2010, 11:35 AM
previous history of the gun doesn't really matter (as long as it isn't reported stolen). It would just be processed as a PPT with you as the current owner.

loose_electron
10-29-2010, 11:49 AM
previous history of the gun doesn't really matter (as long as it isn't reported stolen). It would just be processed as a PPT with you as the current owner.

Thats what I am a bit cloudy on. Trying to avoid something like that. For all I know the owner could be a LEO and show up in uniform, but then the gun could have been brought across state lines improperly.

I am a little paranoid to hand over $1000 and then lose the gun due to something unforseen.

(BTW - 73 - WA1QDI/6)

kemasa
10-29-2010, 12:00 PM
You could have the FFL hold the money until the firearm is transferred, if the FFL agrees.

The seller has to provide ID, so you will know who the person is.

ke6guj
10-29-2010, 12:30 PM
I've never heard of an FFL offering escrow services before like this. it would be a nice option if you have any concerns.

kemasa
10-29-2010, 12:34 PM
I have done it before. It is not a big deal, as long as cash is being used. Just put the cash in an envelope near the firearm and then it is available for pickup after the firearm has been picked up.

tenpercentfirearms
10-30-2010, 4:34 AM
The only issue is if the gun is stolen. There is no other way the transaction is going to get held up. I suppose in theory the seller could be a prohibited person, but I don't think that will have any bearing on you lawfully acquiring the firearm as the prohibited person is supposed to dispose of the firearm.

Kemasa has a good point, ask the FFL if they would hold onto the money until the buyer picks up the gun. You might have to PPT closer to the seller in that case, but it would give you some peace of mind. I wouldn't have a problem doing that if two guys asked me to.

Librarian
10-30-2010, 8:27 AM
Generally speaking, how the gun got to CA is not relevant, because it is not a CA requirement that a handgun be registered to be owned/possessed or to be in a transaction.

That's different from 'the firearm WILL be registered via the DROS process as part of a legal transfer'.

See the Wiki article on registration (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_registration).

jtmkinsd
10-30-2010, 10:35 AM
The only issue is if the gun is stolen. There is no other way the transaction is going to get held up. I suppose in theory the seller could be a prohibited person, but I don't think that will have any bearing on you lawfully acquiring the firearm as the prohibited person is supposed to dispose of the firearm.

You're correct in this...I've done a number of transactions where the owner has had their guns confiscated by local LE. I have to pick up the firearms from the Sheriff or Police station and when transferring the guns to someone else, the "prohibited person" goes on the DROS as the seller.

loose_electron
10-31-2010, 11:59 AM
Thanks everyone - very interesting and useful for me.

What I am thinking right now to avoid all of this is use the family transfer method. Get my Dad to purchase in Florida, and then he ships to a FFL in CA.

Now I got to convince an 83 year old guy (= "Dad") to deal with this in FLorida!
:-)