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View Full Version : AB962 Extent?


GettoPhilosopher
10-28-2010, 10:56 PM
So I tried to ask this in another thread, but it was somewhat tangential and it died with the thread.

AFAIK, it seems like AB962 will go into effect before attempts to block it come through. Some dealers are going to stop selling *all* ammo to CA. Some are just stopping traditional handgun ammo sales.

Question 1: Is it legal to buy ammo outside of CA and drive it back in?
Question 2: Are private party sales of ammo across CA or across state lines legal?
Question 3: Are "proxy" sales (Uncle Bob in Nevada buys ammo online, ships it to me) legal?

So far, what I've seen (in my completely unprofessional opinion) is "f'ed if I know", specifically because there's just not enough law written to know. Any help here?

glockman19
10-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Question 1: Is it legal to buy ammo outside of CA and drive it back in?
YES
Question 2: Are private party sales of ammo across CA or across state lines legal?
NO not unless you get the ammo license or are a FFL
Question 3: Are "proxy" sales (Uncle Bob in Nevada buys ammo online, ships it to me) legal?
Technically NO but who will know other than you and Uncle Bob?

Mstrty
10-28-2010, 11:14 PM
dont worry about the ban. We will be ordering ammo online in CA long after the law goes down into effect.
This opinion was repeated over and over so no worry.:D (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4462225&postcount=4)

Curtis
10-28-2010, 11:23 PM
Private ammo sales are ok. You just can't load ammo and sale it with out an FFL.

glockman19
10-28-2010, 11:24 PM
Private ammo sales are ok. You just can't load ammo and sale it with out an FFL.

Only if you have an ammo vendor license.

Librarian
10-28-2010, 11:31 PM
NO not unless you get the ammo license or are a FFL

Technically NO but who will know other than you and Uncle Bob?

Ammo license? That was in the bill as submitted, but not as passed. So long as the seller is not in CA and/or not an ammo retailer in CA, the record-keeping requirements to not apply - but see below...

Uncle Bob has to meet you in person, or he commits the new misdemeanor in 12318(a).12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

Scratch705
10-28-2010, 11:33 PM
Only if you have an ammo vendor license.

then what about all those selling ammo in the ammo for sale section? none of them have license.Uncle Bob has to meet you in person, or he commits the new misdemeanor in 12318(a).

but doesn't ab962 only apply to transaction between parties and not gifts between private individuals.

say uncle bob sends ammo as a gift, and for his b-day you send him a card and cash that just happens to equal the amount the ammo costs?

bwiese
10-28-2010, 11:34 PM
then what about all those selling ammo in the ammo for sale section? none of them have license.

It's not Feb 2011 yet.

GettoPhilosopher
10-28-2010, 11:35 PM
Ammo license? That was in the bill as submitted, but not as passed. So long as the seller is not in CA and/or not an ammo retailer in CA, the record-keeping requirements to not apply - but see below...

Uncle Bob has to meet you in person, or...

.....or the LASD is gonna track him down in NV and arrest him?

Dr Rockso
10-28-2010, 11:43 PM
.....or the LASD is gonna track him down in NV and arrest him?

The DOJ can still take him to court. Happened with out of state car-parts vendors and CARB.

You could get an 03 FFL + COE and have your uncle ship you all the ammo you want. Or cross your fingers and hope that CGF/CRPA can get it enjoined before the lamest parts of it go into effect.

GrizzlyGuy
10-29-2010, 9:28 AM
then what about all those selling ammo in the ammo for sale section? none of them have license.

There is a federal law (18 USC 923 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000923----000-.html)) that requires licensing for some types of ammo businesses:

(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Attorney General…

Librarian
10-29-2010, 10:05 AM
then what about all those selling ammo in the ammo for sale section? none of them have license.

but doesn't ab962 only apply to transaction between parties and not gifts between private individuals.

say uncle bob sends ammo as a gift, and for his b-day you send him a card and cash that just happens to equal the amount the ammo costs?

Law says "other transferee", not just "buyer", so FTF would apply to gifts as well.

So long as out-of-state Uncle Bob is eligible to buy, and Nephew Scratch is eligible to own/possess ammo, there's no need to fiddle with 'indirect purchases'.

Again, while planning for the worst is rational, there is a court case or two or three about this stuff.

GettoPhilosopher
10-29-2010, 10:08 AM
Again, while planning for the worst is rational, there is a court case or two or three about this stuff.

I get that for why I don't need to stock up 3,000rds of every type of ammo I may ever use over the next 10 years. I'm more worried about ammo for the next 3 months.

Arondos
10-29-2010, 10:37 AM
Just one of those random thoughts that pop into your head. Is face to face defined in the legal code? If I can see their face and they can see mine via say a web cam could that be considered "face to face?"

Librarian
10-29-2010, 10:49 AM
Just one of those random thoughts that pop into your head. Is face to face defined in the legal code? If I can see their face and they can see mine via say a web cam could that be considered "face to face?"

I doubt it.

'Face-to-face' is not defined in the law (seems not to be defined anywhere in PC) - since the Legislature chose not to do that, first choice is the 'normal' meaning of the phrase.

glockman19
10-29-2010, 11:04 AM
Ammo license? That was in the bill as submitted, but not as passed. So long as the seller is not in CA and/or not an ammo retailer in CA, the record-keeping requirements to not apply - but see below...

Uncle Bob has to meet you in person, or he commits the new misdemeanor in 12318(a).

I thought that a new requirement was an ammunition vendor license. Was that scratched from the final bill?

I stand corrected...thanks

Scratch705
10-29-2010, 2:27 PM
Law says "other transferee", not just "buyer", so FTF would apply to gifts as well.

So long as out-of-state Uncle Bob is eligible to buy, and Nephew Scratch is eligible to own/possess ammo, there's no need to fiddle with 'indirect purchases'.

Again, while planning for the worst is rational, there is a court case or two or three about this stuff.

so as long as there is face-to-face contact then? say uncle bob brings ammo into state and i just pay him when he is over at my house? that fulfills face to face contact.

and since he isn't an ammo vendor he doesn't need to follow the fingerprint/id copy part of the law?

Librarian
10-29-2010, 2:34 PM
so as long as there is face-to-face contact then? say uncle bob brings ammo into state and i just pay him when he is over at my house? that fulfills face to face contact.

and since he isn't an ammo vendor he doesn't need to follow the fingerprint/id copy part of the law?

That should work, so long as Uncle Bob isn't known as "Ammo Man Bob, Nevada's finest discount ammunition purveyor, in business at the same location since 1963!" in his radio ads. :)

I'd guess bringing in a flatbed loaded with ammo might also raise some eyebrows.

Scratch705
10-29-2010, 3:09 PM
haha i'm not that rich to buy a flatbed full of ammo....

i'm just making sure as i do have family/friends out of state and they do come in state to visit.