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View Full Version : SOLD a gun in another state with no FFL


October
10-28-2010, 3:51 PM
So when i turned 19 (5 years ago) I went through a bad break up and decided to get out of WA state and head back home to CA. I had just (that year) bought my AK and when I decided to move, it literally was an overnight thing. I was young and dumb (still am right?) and needed cash fast and sold my gun to one of my friends dad. No paper work, no FFL transfer. Didnt even know that existed at the time. And he, an avid gun enthusiast, should have known as well, the proper procedures.


Well I have no way of getting in contact with that family, I dont even remember the guys name or my friends name (we were more school acquaintances) but I want that gun off my name and out of my life for good.
Who or where do I go and report this to?

or was this a mistake, posting it on here? lol

stix213
10-28-2010, 3:53 PM
Longguns in CA aren't typically registered, so it shouldn't still be "in your name." Though you did still make a no no

October
10-28-2010, 3:54 PM
Longguns in CA aren't typically registered, so it shouldn't still be "in your name." Though you did still make a no no

So there is nothing I need to do since I lived and bought it from a gunshop in WA state and sold it to someone in WA state and then moved down here?

SJgunguy24
10-28-2010, 3:59 PM
Better get your tin foil hat on before the black helicopters track you down.

No, your good, as long as your both residents of the same state and neither are prohibited from owning firearms.

October
10-28-2010, 4:01 PM
ZEEE GERMANS ARE NOT COMING?

Noonanda
10-28-2010, 4:01 PM
So there is nothing I need to do since I lived and bought it from a gunshop in WA state and sold it to someone in WA state and then moved down here?

the only ones that would still know is the federal goverment because they are monitoring every transaction for the time when the ATF confiscates them all..... Just kidding.:TFH:;)
How long is an FFL required to maintain the 4473 background check? that would be the only papertrail left if there even was one

THT
10-28-2010, 4:03 PM
So you were a WA state resident who sold a rifle to another WA state resident in WA state? I don't think you need a FFL to do a private party sale in WA.

cj cake
10-28-2010, 4:12 PM
You do not need to go through an FFL in WA State for the person to person transfer of a long gun. You just have to have a reasonable knowledge that your friend was not a prohibited person. No paperwork required.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-28-2010, 4:12 PM
Besides, the statute of limitations for something like that is what? 3 years?

October
10-28-2010, 4:18 PM
alright good. But if it ever became the scene of a crime it would come back to me though right?

The person seemed solid, was an avid hunter and had many of his own guns so i assume he is allowed to purchase. I just dont want to be an episode of Law and Order

Mssr. Eleganté
10-28-2010, 8:30 PM
alright good. But if it ever became the scene of a crime it would come back to me though right?

Yes it would. If the police found that rifle at a crime scene and wanted to trace it they could trace it to you. They do this by contacting the manufacturer or importer to see which distributor it was originally sold to. Then they contact that distributor to see what dealer they sold it to. Then they contact that dealer and ask what customer it was sold to. Then they contact you and ask what's up. That's when you can either tell them to whom you sold the rifle or that you don't remember to whom you sold it. The police don't automatically suspect the last traceable person associated with a crime scene gun. People in most States can sell or trade firearms to other residents of their State without any FFLs or paperwork, so the police are used to firearms traces running cold. As long as some meth head in Seattle doesn't steal the rifle from your friends dad and use it to shoot your ex-wife or hold up a liquor store in your current neighborhood in California then you should be fine.

The above tracing method only works for sure if all previous owners of the rifle before you were FFLs. They are the only ones required to keep records of firearms transactions. If the gun store you bought the rifle from originally took it in trade from a private party then the trace to you would depend on all of the private parties that owned it prior to the Washington gun shop giving accurate information to the police. If any of them forgot to whom they sold the gun or have passed away then the trace would go cold before it even got to the Washington gun shop.

October
10-28-2010, 8:43 PM
Yes it would. If the police found that rifle at a crime scene and wanted to trace it they could trace it to you. They do this by contacting the manufacturer or importer to see which distributor it was originally sold to. Then they contact that distributor to see what dealer they sold it to. Then they contact that dealer and ask what customer it was sold to. Then they contact you and ask what's up. That's when you can either tell them to whom you sold the rifle or that you don't remember to whom you sold it. The police don't automatically suspect the last traceable person associated with a crime scene gun. People in most States can sell or trade firearms to other residents of their State without any FFLs or paperwork, so the police are used to firearms traces running cold. As long as some meth head in Seattle doesn't steal the rifle from your friends dad and use it to shoot your ex-wife or hold up a liquor store in your current neighborhood in California then you should be fine.

The above tracing method only works for sure if all previous owners of the rifle before you were FFLs. They are the only ones required to keep records of firearms transactions. If the gun store you bought the rifle from originally took it in trade from a private party then the trace to you would depend on all of the private parties that owned it prior to the Washington gun shop giving accurate information to the police. If any of them forgot to whom they sold the gun or have passed away then the trace would go cold before it even got to the Washington gun shop.


very informative, thank you. You sound like you either just know what you are talking about or you might be a LEO??

Mssr. Eleganté
10-28-2010, 8:47 PM
...you either just know what you are talking about or you might be a LEO??

Many people feel that those two options are mutually exclusive. :p

October
10-28-2010, 8:48 PM
Many people feel that those two options are mutually exclusive. :p

Your a LEO aint'cha...

nitis
10-28-2010, 9:21 PM
only thing with tracing the serial # that way is dealers are only required to hang on to their records for so long !

glockman19
10-28-2010, 9:33 PM
What about firearms purchased before 1968 86? Is there a record?

Mssr. Eleganté
10-28-2010, 9:42 PM
What about firearms purchased before 1986? Is there a record?

The current record keeping system that FFLs are required to use started in 1968. But the law says FFLs can get rid of records that are over 20 years old. Some FFLs choose to keep their records longer than that. If an FFL goes out of business then his records are mailed in to BATFE's out of business records center. So sometimes records older than 20 years are still available to search.

glockman19
10-28-2010, 9:51 PM
I meant to post 1968.

So the guns I was given that were purchsed by my friends father, uncle and neighbor prior to 1968 should be OK?

They have never left the state and were never registered.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-28-2010, 9:55 PM
I meant to post 1968.

So the guns I was given that were purchsed by my friends father, uncle and neighbor prior to 1968 should be OK?

They have never left the state and were never registered.

I'm not sure what you mean by "OK". All of my handguns are registered and they are still "OK". :)

California had its own gun dealer record keeping program as far back as the 1920's I believe. So some of your pre-1968 handguns still might have a paper trail with CalDOJ. That doesn't mean the aren't "OK" though.

X-NewYawker
10-29-2010, 7:16 AM
Somebody call the cops on this guy!

:)

desertdweller
10-29-2010, 7:53 AM
I used to live in Washington State, and in Washington State, you can buy and sell private party legally, no FFL needed. You should have done a bill of sale, which is required, but you only need to keep that bill of sale for 3 years. Since it's been more than that, you are clear. Besides, you still know who you sold it to so you're good there too.

From what I know, FFLs have to hold onto their 4473's for 20 years.

glockman19
10-29-2010, 8:03 AM
First off an admission...The post was/is hypothetical...the only firearms I have or own are all purchased by me within the last 4 years new.

Ross
10-29-2010, 8:06 AM
Oklahoma is the same way.

When I bought or sold a firearm there a receipt would accompany it. Included in the reciept is the serial number, buyer's name (visually verified by ID), and a little blurb to the effect of "the seller attests to being legally allowed to purchase and own this firearm."

It's not the seller's responsibility to know if the buyer is legally allowed to own firearms, it's the buyer's.

Wherryj
10-29-2010, 9:56 AM
only thing with tracing the serial # that way is dealers are only required to hang on to their records for so long !

That and I believe that the paperwork must be "on site"? At least I was told that by an FFL in CA (could be FUD).

If the requirement is 5 years, but you can keep records at "U-Store", many places might just keep them forever to be on the "safe side". If the requirement is 5 years and ON SITE, even if a business owner wanted to keep them space would eventually become an issue.

I suspect that if the law is the same in WA, the records are kept for the minimum required then shredded.

Jpach
10-29-2010, 1:22 PM
Many people feel that those two options are mutually exclusive. :p

LOL I was just going to say that I feel that way.


OP, next time something like this happens, it would be wise to make a thread about a hypothetical story rather than admitting you committed a crime.

Good thing you didnt actually do anything wrong though! BTW, what kind of AK was it?

faterikcartman
10-29-2010, 3:21 PM
What if this would have taken place in California (with a non-AW long gun) -- is there a time limit on how long the parties could get in trouble or could it haunt them forever?

X-NewYawker
10-29-2010, 3:24 PM
What if this would have taken place in California (with a non-AW long gun) -- is there a time limit on how long the parties could get in trouble or could it haunt them forever?

It will haunt them forever...

Mssr. Eleganté
10-29-2010, 7:05 PM
What if this would have taken place in California (with a non-AW long gun) -- is there a time limit on how long the parties could get in trouble or could it haunt them forever?

At most, three years. I believe that some illegal long gun transfers might only have a one year statute of limitations in California. But to be safe I'll say three years. If one party leaves California then the clock stops ticking for that party while they are outside of California.

But as X-NewYawker suggests, once the three year statute of limitations is up you will still be burdened with the personal guilt that you violated one of California's gun laws. It will haunt you forever. Or not.

X-NewYawker
10-29-2010, 7:10 PM
More than that, I've had friends do PPT, searing they wanted a gun, then later they sold it -- and you always wonder - if anything bad happens, what does the reporter and cop always say at the scene: "where did they get the gun?"
And God forbid someone you sell a gun to has some kid steal the gun from his house and commit a crime, you WILL be dragged into it.