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View Full Version : Sac pd visits house for picture.


pbchief2
10-27-2010, 5:10 PM
Just got a call from a family member.

Should he worry?

HK4113
10-27-2010, 5:15 PM
He should not have let them in, let alone opened up his safe for them. Tell him to contact a lawyer.

truthseeker
10-27-2010, 5:16 PM
WOW!!

He let them in without a warrant?

Good luck.

Someone here will answer this in a coherent manner, I am just baffled as to why anyone would let any LEO into their house without a warrant.

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 5:18 PM
That much is a given, we've been over that time and time again. It obviously went in one ear and out the other. Though I'm sure he heard me this time.

Knight_Who_Says_Ni
10-27-2010, 5:24 PM
Have him call the Calguns Foundation ASAP at 1-800-556-2109

GP3
10-27-2010, 5:27 PM
Were the OLL's registered or just DROS'd? Odd that they had 'paperwork'.

It all sounds wrong, but the "ammo storage is illegal" really jumps out at me.

Maltese Falcon
10-27-2010, 5:27 PM
Is transporting the firearms to a secure other location acceptable in the interim after the CGF call?

.

Kharn
10-27-2010, 5:29 PM
How did he let the officer have access to the photo during the traffic stop? :confused:

Vtec44
10-27-2010, 5:40 PM
They told him it was illegal to store his ammunition and that the forward grip on one of the guns was illegal. They will bee in touch according to him.

IMHO ... If it was really illegal, he would have been arrested.

Saigon1965
10-27-2010, 5:46 PM
That dept was fishing - Call CGF because we need to educate that dept. -

ojisan
10-27-2010, 5:57 PM
WOW!!

He let them in without a warrant?

Good luck.

Someone here will answer this in a coherent manner, I am just baffled as to why anyone would let any LEO into their house without a warrant.

Note that they claimed they had a warrant, and had guns in hand.
This can be a little intimidating for Joe Average....who hopefully knows not to make a "furtive move".
I'm sure there is more to this story.
I bet none of it is good.
Yes, someone out there now needs some legal counsel.
Just because no arrest was made during the visit does not mean charges will not be filed later.
Fishing during a traffic stop is one thing, fishing in your living room is another.

OleCuss
10-27-2010, 6:43 PM
Cop bashing would be inappropriate. But I think the guy should call CGF and get a good night's sleep.

If a cop comes to your door brandishing a firearm any subsequent consent to a search should (in my humble non-lawyerly opinion) be considered coerced rather than voluntary.

He needs a good lawyer and I think he'll be OK. Nasty situation, though.

Nor-Cal
10-27-2010, 6:45 PM
Wow he let them right in, I know a police officer is doing his job but in no way will I assist him doing his job. No warrant no entry to my home, I would tell your friend to contact a lawyer and see what can be done and to find out what's really going on.

jonni
10-27-2010, 6:50 PM
there are ZERO posts that constitute as cop bashing and yet people are already crying about it

harden up and stop being so sensitive

freonr22
10-27-2010, 6:51 PM
How are they "doing their job"?

Zdiddy
10-27-2010, 6:51 PM
Post it again and you're gone.

Saym14
10-27-2010, 6:55 PM
SUE THEM! they are criminals.

Nor-Cal
10-27-2010, 6:59 PM
By trying to find a way to bust you!

OleCuss
10-27-2010, 7:03 PM
I'm not sure you could sue the cop over this and succeed, but if a firearm actually was illegally configured I'd bet the charges will be thrown out.

BTW, IANAL, but I'd make sure that the possibly offending firearm was checked for full legality - and if it is not fully legal I'd take off the bothersome part and dispose of it.

But if the cop were sure that the firearm was illegal he should have immediately confiscated the firearm and arrested the owner. It does seem quite logical (as previously indicated) that the cop didn't think it was illegal either but is trying to keep the gun owner off-guard and worried.

Seriously, I'm not even sure the cop did anything wrong.

But I think the gun owner is in the clear as well. He should still lawyer up, though, as someone somewhere is trying to make a case. . .

thempopresense
10-27-2010, 7:04 PM
If they had a warrant, isn't knocking on the door out of normal procedure? Why not just No Knock and catch the guy with something bad.

Sounds like they didn't have ****, and that they were fishing.

supersonic
10-27-2010, 7:05 PM
In my own experiences with the Sac PD and their good attitude/education on the whole firearms laws/OLL thing, there is no way there isn't something either a) more to the story or 2) left out entirely. It just doesn't add up. There is SO much lack-of protocol & professionalism in this story. Any LEO that would even think of pulling a "got a warrant" about an "upcoming failure to appear" and openly admit "But we're here because of the guns" is just begging to be smacked down by the department. And TWO cops did this? Because of a PICTURE that was seen during a previous traffic stop??? I just can't get with this until all the facts are there. Makes no sense at all.

OleCuss
10-27-2010, 7:07 PM
. . .Why not just No Knock and catch the guy with something bad.
.
.
.

No knock is serious business and the odds of someone getting hurt is kinda high. Better not to do this except in the most extreme of cases.

OleCuss
10-27-2010, 7:12 PM
In my own experiences with the Sac PD and their good attitude/education on the whole firearms laws/OLL thing, there is no way there isn't something either a) more to the story or 2) left out entirely. It just doesn't add up. There is SO much lack-of protocol & professionalism in this story. Any LEO that would even think of pulling a "got a warrant" about an "upcoming failure to appear" and openly admit "But we're here because of the guns" is just begging to be smacked down by the department. And TWO cops did this? Because of a PICTURE that was seen during a previous traffic stop??? I just can't get with this until all the facts are there. Makes no sense at all.

Do you think there is any chance that this was a someone casing his house with intent to come back and steal his firearms (and maybe other stuff?). It might fit with not having the right date to appear and rather bizarre LEO procedures?

Maybe I'm just getting paranoid but I'd be really careful about security and have a firearm available at all times when at home.

Edit: Cell phone or cordless phone to hand at all times as well - ready to call 911 and get some real cops there if needed.

Nor-Cal
10-27-2010, 7:20 PM
Do you think there is any chance that this was a someone casing his house with intent to come back and steal his firearms (and maybe other stuff?). It might fit with not having the right date to appear and rather bizarre LEO procedures?

Maybe I'm just getting paranoid but I'd be really careful about security and have a firearm available at all times when at home.

Edit: Cell phone or cordless phone to hand at all times as well - ready to call 911 and get some real cops there if needed.

I'm thinking the same +1 right bout now!

Falstaff
10-27-2010, 7:22 PM
Cops do what they call "Knock and talks" all the time when they can't get a warrant. They will very aggressively ASK for permission to look around, "you don't have anything to hide, mind letting us take a look?". Most people are too ********* to tell them NO, HELL NO.

Smokeybehr
10-27-2010, 7:22 PM
I'm going to call :bs: on this. I don't think that these were real cops, and were just casing the joint. I'd recommend that whoever the guy is, he gets the combo changed on that safe, and gets a few magnets or stickers from our favorite 2A lawyer.

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 7:23 PM
In my own experiences with the Sac PD and their good attitude/education on the whole firearms laws/OLL thing, there is no way there isn't something either a) more to the story or 2) left out entirely. It just doesn't add up. There is SO much lack-of protocol & professionalism in this story. Any LEO that would even think of pulling a "got a warrant" about an "upcoming failure to appear" and openly admit "But we're here because of the guns" is just begging to be smacked down by the department. This sounded odd to me too, I went over everything again and the warrant thing was brought up out of context by himAnd TWO cops did this?Two plain clothes detectives Because of a PICTURE that was seen during a previous traffic stop??? I just can't get with this until all the facts are there. Makes no sense at all.

What more would you like to know. why do you find it odd that another human would make a mistake be it the LEO's or the :rolleyes:Evil gun owner.

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 7:25 PM
I'm going to call :bs: on this. I don't think that these were real cops, and were just casing the joint. I'd recommend that whoever the guy is, he gets the combo changed on that safe, and gets a few magnets or stickers from our favorite 2A lawyer.
Already getting them for him.

supersonic
10-27-2010, 7:41 PM
What more would you like to know. why do you find it odd that another human would make a mistake be it the LEO's or the :rolleyes:Evil gun owner.

This sounded odd to me too, I went over everything again and the warrant thing was brought up out of context by him Two plain clothes detectives


If you had included those 2 VERY IMPORTANT pieces of the puzzle in your original post, it would have been the "no-brainer" that it is now: LEO impersonators!!!!:D ....Don't cops ALWAYS leave their business card to everyone involved before & during an ongoing investigation? I'll bet a million bucks these two clowns weren't carrying any!;)

joedogboy
10-27-2010, 7:58 PM
How are they "doing their job"?

"Poorly"
"Ineptly"
"Unprofessionally"
"Illegally"
"In a manner that brings discredit to themselves, their department, and their profession"

Either these guys were only posing as cops, or they were "way off the reservation".

thatrogue
10-27-2010, 8:08 PM
I call Hypothetical story telling on this one, may be not on the OP, but this just doesn't seem plausible unless we are missing a really really big piece of the puzzle...

Doheny
10-27-2010, 8:11 PM
/\/\ What he said.

tyrist
10-27-2010, 8:12 PM
When you read a story and it makes absolutely no sense then it is usually a LIE.

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 8:13 PM
No hypothetical story telling here, but it's nice to know there are that many story tellers here that it's being questioned as such.

nrgcruizer
10-27-2010, 8:13 PM
In my own experiences with the Sac PD and their good attitude/education on the whole firearms laws/OLL thing, there is no way there isn't something either a) more to the story or 2) left out entirely. It just doesn't add up. There is SO much lack-of protocol & professionalism in this story. Any LEO that would even think of pulling a "got a warrant" about an "upcoming failure to appear" and openly admit "But we're here because of the guns" is just begging to be smacked down by the department. And TWO cops did this? Because of a PICTURE that was seen during a previous traffic stop??? I just can't get with this until all the facts are there. Makes no sense at all.

Same here. Not that I'm taking anyone's side at this point. Right is right, after all. But I really think there's more to the story, unless I see a video like San Luis Obispo Sheriff vid.

freonr22
10-27-2010, 8:15 PM
Pch's garands maybe true ;)

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 8:18 PM
That's a pretty brazen comment tyrist, it questions both my integrity and puts doubt into any of my future posts. Maybe your reading comprehension is lacking or bias as a LEO.

Kid Stanislaus
10-27-2010, 8:20 PM
If an LEO showed up at my door and pulled something like that there'd ensue a VERY unpleasant conversation. However, in this case, it looks like there may be more to this story than we have on hand. pbchief, please fill us in on any missing details if there are any.

Oceanbob
10-27-2010, 8:23 PM
Just got a call from a family member, a few months ago he was pulled over and during the stop the LEO noticed a picture of him and his family with their guns. Apparently the officer reported it at the station and requested that someone from the Station pay him a visit. Fast forward to today when a couple of LEO's knock on his door side arm in hand. Info incorrect(Officers notified him he had a warrant for missing his court date(which is scheduled for Nov 8th BTW)Info incorrect. He also tells him he is there to inspect his guns and not about the warrant. Of, course the guy lets them in and even opens his safe for them. He also said they had a copy of all his paperwork from when he bought his lowers and they knew he bought them legally. Everything had a radlock on it, the LEO's kept trying to get the magazines to release but were unable to. They told him it was illegal to store his ammunition and that the forward grip on one of the guns was illegal. They will bee in touch according to him.

Should he worry?

The cops tricked/scared the man into becoming a willing dupe.

Is it so hard to say the words:

Come back with a warrant.

I have 4 adult kids and 1 who is still a minor. Everyone of them has seen this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

We owe it to our children to teach them about our legal rights.!

Don't talk to the Police even if you're innocent..!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

However..if they had a case or PC on anything they would have cuffed him up and taken him in. They didn't...I suggest he retain an attorney and have one on standby.

http://i51.tinypic.com/33vykbt.jpg

tyrist
10-27-2010, 8:32 PM
That's a pretty brazen comment tyrist, it questions both my integrity and puts doubt into any of my future posts. Maybe your reading comprehension is lacking or bias as a LEO.

The story is not from you is it? It's from somebody you know so it doesn't question your integrity. I don't doubt somebody told you this story but I don't believe their story as told to you. There are some pretty gaping holes.

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 8:39 PM
The story is not from you is it? It's from somebody you know so it doesn't question your integrity. I don't doubt somebody told you this story but I don't believe their story as told to you. There are some pretty gaping holes.

True, hopefully I can putty them up tomorrow or at least put some pretty stickers over them. It's also possible that a bit of the "story" as you put it was lost when passed along, time will tell.

greg36f
10-27-2010, 8:43 PM
"Poorly"
"Ineptly"
"Unprofessionally"
"Illegally"
"In a manner that brings discredit to themselves, their department, and their profession"

Either these guys were only posing as cops, or they were "way off the reservation".

Please enlighten us as to how the LEO's were acting

"Ineptly"
"Unprofessionally"
"Illegally"
"In a manner that brings discredit to themselves, their department, and their profession"

The knocked on the door, asked to come in and were allowed. They asked to see the guns and were allowed.

Where is the issue? They can ask all they want. It's up to you to say no.

On that note, will everyone reading this send me twenty bucks?,,,,,I'm just asking......

On another note, this whole story seems goofy as heck......Somethings missing....

Could be,,,You have a warrant, but we will let you come in (to court) on your own at a later date if you show your guns. A poor deal IMO, but it's the homeowners deal to make. Possibly the guy was on probation and had to allow the search? I always ask before I demand.....Makes it cleaner if a court challange comes up.

Ford8N
10-27-2010, 8:45 PM
I agree, odd story. Many things done wrong.

OleCuss
10-27-2010, 8:46 PM
The cops tricked/scared the man into becoming a willing dupe.

Is it so hard to say the words:

Come back with a warrant.
.
.
.

You are making excellent points except for one thing. If someone scares you into doing something in part by brandishing a firearm under color of authority - you aren't a willing dupe.

I'd like to think that I'd have the gonads to tell a cop that he may not enter or search if he pulled his weapon and said he wanted to search my house - but I won't be certain until it happens.

greg36f
10-27-2010, 8:49 PM
You are making excellent points except for one thing. If someone scares you into doing something in part by brandishing a firearm under color of authority - you aren't a willing dupe.

I'd like to think that I'd have the gonads to tell a cop that he may not enter or search if he pulled his weapon and said he wanted to search my house - but I won't be certain until it happens.


If a LEO knowingly forced an illegal search, I would not physically resist, but I would sure sue later........You are gonna lose the fight at the door and muddy the waters later at a civil trial. Fighting the cops is a no win game...

OleCuss
10-27-2010, 8:50 PM
.
.
.
The knocked on the door, asked to come in and were allowed. They asked to see the guns and were allowed.

Where is the issue? They can ask all they want. It's up to you to say no. .
.
.
.

IIRC, the cop had gun in hand rather than holstered. That changes the situation at least somewhat. I'm still not sure the cop(s) did anything wrong. Not sure the gun owner did anything stupid either.

Pretty sure that if I were a lawyer I'd challenge any evidence collected if the guy came up on charges on anything related to the incident.

Also pretty sure that I'd be on high alert for a few weeks at least.

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 8:56 PM
Just to make a point, if what the LEO's did or did not do wrong is not under scrutiny as far as I'm concerned right now. That's above my paygrade and will be passed along to someone who is more concerned about these things. What is important is making sure this doesn't progress any further. The tools in his possession were legal when I last saw them, he had been instructed not to allow LEO's into his home, and now he knows to keep pics to himself(what a world we live in).

meangreen46
10-27-2010, 8:57 PM
Why not have the guy just call Sac PD to find out if it was legit? :gene:

Tacit Blue
10-27-2010, 9:10 PM
Just got a call from a family member, a few months ago he was pulled over and during the stop the LEO noticed a picture of him and his family with their guns. Apparently the officer reported it at the station and requested that someone from the Station pay him a visit. Fast forward to today when a couple of LEO's knock on his door side arm in hand. Info incorrect(Officers notified him he had a warrant for missing his court date(which is scheduled for Nov 8th BTW)Info incorrect. He also tells him he is there to inspect his guns and not about the warrant. Of, course the guy lets them in and even opens his safe for them. He also said they had a copy of all his paperwork from when he bought his lowers and they knew he bought them legally. Everything had a radlock on it, the LEO's kept trying to get the magazines to release but were unable to. They told him it was illegal to store his ammunition with the firearms and that the forward grip on one of the guns was illegal. They will be in touch according to him.

Should he worry?


The officer armed with a arrest warrant could only search " the immediate area around the arrestee" (Different than a search) as per the supreme court ruling Chimel V. California. Since he invited the officers into his home, he waived his 4th. Even worse let him handle the weapons. Big mistake. The Department could use the " good faith doctrine" saying that their intentions were good to seize weapons that they thought were Assault weapons etc, and that they enough had P.C to believe they were illegal. Those are the kinda of games they'll play in court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimel_v._California

Chatterbox
10-27-2010, 9:17 PM
I'm confused - did the officer have a warrant, or did they just claim to have a warrant to get him to open the door?

Bizcuits
10-27-2010, 9:25 PM
I call BS.

Story has holes and SACPD is already fully aware of OLL's.

I'm not calling you a liar, but your friend isn't filling in all the details.

thebronze
10-27-2010, 10:29 PM
WTF is this whole thread about? I can't make head nor tail out of it.

glockman19
10-27-2010, 10:35 PM
I'm glad I had a chance to read the OP before it was changed.

They should have just shown him their fishing license. isn't that what they were doing?

If a picture of you and relatives is probable cause then we have big issues to deal with.

I hope CGF i slooking into this.

pbchief2
10-27-2010, 10:55 PM
WTF is this whole thread about? I can't make head nor tail out of it.

Sorry Bronze, take a look at post 39 for what the original post contained.

freonr22
10-27-2010, 11:20 PM
Please enlighten us as to how the LEO's were acting

"Ineptly"
"Unprofessionally"
"Illegally"
"In a manner that brings discredit to themselves, their department, and their profession"

The knocked on the door, asked to come in and were allowed. They asked to see the guns and were allowed.

Where is the issue? They can ask all they want. It's up to you to say no.

On that note, will everyone reading this send me twenty bucks?,,,,,I'm just asking......

On another note, this whole story seems goofy as heck......Somethings missing....

Could be,,,You have a warrant, but we will let you come in (to court) on your own at a later date if you show your guns. A poor deal IMO, but it's the homeowners deal to make. Possibly the guy was on probation and had to allow the search? I always ask before I demand.....Makes it cleaner if a court challange comes up.

How is it their job to investigate photographs? with guns drawn to inspect his arms?

Tacit Blue
10-27-2010, 11:40 PM
Please enlighten us as to how the LEO's were acting

"Ineptly"
"Unprofessionally"
"Illegally"
"In a manner that brings discredit to themselves, their department, and their profession"

The knocked on the door, asked to come in and were allowed. They asked to see the guns and were allowed.

Where is the issue? They can ask all they want. It's up to you to say no.

On that note, will everyone reading this send me twenty bucks?,,,,,I'm just asking......

On another note, this whole story seems goofy as heck......Somethings missing....

Could be,,,You have a warrant, but we will let you come in (to court) on your own at a later date if you show your guns. A poor deal IMO, but it's the homeowners deal to make. Possibly the guy was on probation and had to allow the search? I always ask before I demand.....Makes it cleaner if a court challange comes up.

Well,i tried to advise him on his rights for his friend. And where things went wrong, but it doesn't add up like many have said.

last time i checked a convicted felon Can't own a firearm, if he was on probation. And if he was, he signed a 4th waiver to be released on parole. There is something else going on without a reasonable doubt.

why seize lawful "evidence" of a OLL AR15? what would be the motive for the search? It just doesn't make sense.

Like a couple of people mentioned; that Agency has knowledge of what CA legal AR15's are .So its all speculation at this point ,and needs to be cleared up.

freonr22
10-27-2010, 11:41 PM
if there was a felon, items would have been taken, along w/ people

negolien
10-27-2010, 11:46 PM
:troll:

greg36f
10-28-2010, 6:38 AM
How is it their job to investigate photographs? with guns drawn to inspect his arms?


Gotta admit that I don't really like the "drawn firearms" thing, but they can "investigate" whatever they want. Like I said, lots of things missing here. Is the guy on probation, parole, a gang member? The two month delay between seeing the picture and showing up at the front door is strange.......I mean, WTH! (H= Heck)...


Truthfully, I could not get away with this because my drawings of guns never turn out right.....they never look real; no one would be intimidated..

But I'm sure that the OP's friend has nice arms,,,,,,,,Worth inspecting as long he works out regular and all.......I would be flattered if they wanted to look at my arms!!

IGOTDIRT4U
10-28-2010, 6:46 AM
Do you think there is any chance that this was a someone casing his house with intent to come back and steal his firearms (and maybe other stuff?). It might fit with not having the right date to appear and rather bizarre LEO procedures?

Maybe I'm just getting paranoid but I'd be really careful about security and have a firearm available at all times when at home.

Edit: Cell phone or cordless phone to hand at all times as well - ready to call 911 and get some real cops there if needed.

Ditto. Very strange way for the now very educated Sac PD to handle this.

turbosbox
10-28-2010, 9:11 AM
It seems to be common that hearing a story, especially second or third hand about an LEO encounter leaves out the guilty shaded parts of the story. So I don't completely believe any story I hear as being %100 true unless it is from a very credible individual and not a party to the person being questioned, arrested, searched etc. To pbcheif, I'm not calling you a liar, but saying parts of this story have been left out by someone in my opinion as they usually are.
For SURE there are a few cases where the individual has done little and was treated badly like the S.L.O. person plinking in his yard.

Wherryj
10-28-2010, 9:58 AM
If you had included those 2 VERY IMPORTANT pieces of the puzzle in your original post, it would have been the "no-brainer" that it is now: LEO impersonators!!!!:D ....Don't cops ALWAYS leave their business card to everyone involved before & during an ongoing investigation? I'll bet a million bucks these two clowns weren't carrying any!;)

Because a business card is so difficult to forge? Not having them seems suspicious, but I would be no less suspicious of someone acting strangely who had a card.

pbchief2
10-28-2010, 10:03 AM
The story as I told it was how it happened, the picture was seen during a traffic stop and was copied by the LEO and presented to someone at SPD who decided further investigation was warranted. The investigating LEO had in his possession records of the OLL purchases. The individual was intimidated by the perceived authority the LEO and allowed both entrance into his home and access to his safe. Whether or not to take this further is up to the individual it happened to. It's only worrisome if it happens to you though right, don't worry with this type of continued attitude it just might.

I'll also add that the individual has no criminal record. Just a fishing exhibition just as might and has happened to others who buy ammunition within Sac city limits.

chuckdc
10-28-2010, 10:08 AM
If they had a warrant, isn't knocking on the door out of normal procedure? Why not just No Knock and catch the guy with something bad.

Sounds like they didn't have ****, and that they were fishing.

Because a "No-knock" warrant has to be issued by the judge. The judge has to be given a reason why to check that particular box. "Knock and announce" is the usual procedure on a search warrant. "No Knock" is for searches for evidence that is easily destroyed, by flushing down the toilet, for instance. Somehow I doubt that firearms qualify, unless you have some sort of VERY special plumbing!

dantodd
10-28-2010, 10:09 AM
Whether or not to take this further is up to the individual it happened to. It's only worrisome if it happens to you though right, don't worry with this type of continued attitude it just might.

The only way to stop this is if the person effected takes action. If everything is as you told it and your relative doesn't do anything what's to stop these particular officers from a repeat performance?

Dr Rockso
10-28-2010, 10:35 AM
For SURE there are a few cases where the individual has done little and was treated badly like the S.L.O. person plinking in his yard.
And frankly things probably would have turned out a lot better for him had he not insisted on reaching into his pocket to grab his cell phone while deputies were pointing guns at him. Not to justify the clearly illegal behavior of the LEOs after that, but stupid begets stupid...

B Strong
10-28-2010, 11:08 AM
The story is not from you is it? It's from somebody you know so it doesn't question your integrity. I don't doubt somebody told you this story but I don't believe their story as told to you. There are some pretty gaping holes.

I've heard stranger, but this story needs to be verified through a third competent party.

Tagged for updates.

Lone_Gunman
10-28-2010, 11:47 AM
The story as I told it was how it happened, the picture was seen during a traffic stop and was copied by the LEO and presented to someone at SPD who decided further investigation was warranted.

How the hell does a LEO copy a picture during a traffic stop?

The investigating LEO had in his possession records of the OLL purchases.

There is no registration of long guns. Where did this LEO get records of OLL purchases?

The individual was intimidated by the perceived authority the LEO and allowed both entrance into his home and access to his safe. Whether or not to take this further is up to the individual it happened to. It's only worrisome if it happens to you though right, don't worry with this type of continued attitude it just might.

I'll also add that the individual has no criminal record. Just a fishing exhibition just as might and has happened to others who buy ammunition within Sac city limits.



Responses in bold. I'm calling either troll or lying friend. This does not add up.

HowardW56
10-28-2010, 11:50 AM
Responses in bold. I'm calling either troll or lying friend. This does not add up.

:iagree:

pbchief2
10-28-2010, 11:52 AM
Responses in bold. I'm calling either troll or lying friend. This does not add up.

Really, you think LEO's do not have cameras!

The second question is much more troubling to me, how indeed.

As for the troll label quit trolling my thread.:D

Lone_Gunman
10-28-2010, 11:58 AM
Really, you think LEO's do not have cameras!

The second question is much more troubling to me, how indeed.

As for the troll label quit trolling my thread.:D

Fair enough. I didn't think of the LEO having a camera. I'm not trolling your thread BTW I'm just trying to figure out this story.

Sounds like another person (your friend) needs to watch this video.

6wXkI4t7nuc

putput
10-28-2010, 12:02 PM
I could see how this goes down. The guy gets pulled over and has a picture of him with some OLL type rifle. Suspecting AW charges, the police take a picture of the picture. Since they have his info from the stop, they lookup the guys PISTOL registration, goes to place of purchase and requests records of all purchases, finds OLL purchase, goes to home to inspect for OLL compliance.

No doubt that scenario is a big stretch...

Or it's all BS. If it's that first part then I hope someone does something about that crap.

pbchief2
10-28-2010, 12:04 PM
The "thread trolling" label is not directed toward you in particular. It is more for those that come in for a one liner and offer nothing to the thread.

emc002
10-28-2010, 12:12 PM
I forget where I saw this, but I've always thought it good advice.

LEO: KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK
Resident: Who is it?
LEO: Law enforcement, we have a warrant, open the door.
Resident: I don't open the door for law enforcement, if you have a warrant, go ahead and break open the door. I will gladly cooperate fully once you've broken down the door and shown me your warrant.

supersonic
10-28-2010, 12:40 PM
Just for everyone's reference, I have quoted my own experience with Sacramento PD and their knowledge of me being in possession of firearms during a traffic stop. I highly doubt this is atypical/out of the 'norm' :

I have now had ONE LEO interaction in which I was asked if there was anything illegal in my car. I had noticed that one of the 2 cops was looking very closely at the floor area behind my passenger's seat (from outside the car, of course - I gave no permission for a search), so my answer was "No, nothing illegal whatsoever. Just my 10MM Glock with 2 full mags in a GunVault." The cop I was saying that to said, and I quote, "Um....Oh."... Noticing the 'funny' look on his face, I stated again how there was "nothing illegal" in my car, when his partner chimed in "Yeah, I saw the Gunvault, you're good. We know it's fine to have as long as it's locked in a case." This was the Sacramento P.D. responding to a "suspicious person" report in which I was mistaken for somebody else.:)

Actually, I now realize after quoting this, that I have actually had TWO (2) Sac PD/firearms-in-car interactions. The first involved another "mistaken I.D." type of situation in which my car was searched. I had 3 OLL's in the trunk in cases. When asked what were in the (unlocked) cases, I replied "2 AR-15's & an AK." The cop didn't even bother looking in the cases. This was at the tail end of the 'interaction,' and he simply closed my trunk and said he was sorry about the misunderstanding. Then he drove off with my CDL still on top of his friggin' cruiser!!!!!!:mad::p

joedogboy
10-28-2010, 12:55 PM
Please enlighten us as to how the LEO's were acting

"Ineptly"
"Unprofessionally"
"Illegally"
"In a manner that brings discredit to themselves, their department, and their profession"

The knocked on the door, asked to come in and were allowed. They asked to see the guns and were allowed.


The parts of your statement in bold do not actually reflect the facts, as presented.

They came to the door for an "investigation" that was not spurred by any actual or even probable crime. This is both inept and unprofessional.
They claimed to have a warrant when they did not. This is unprofessional, and also likely illegal - and would certainly result in any evidence found being excluded from any trial.
They used force to coerce the citizen into allowing them to intrude into the home and also used force to coerce the citizen into allowing a search. This is illegal, as well as being unprofessional.

Again, there was no lawful reason for the event to take place.

This leads a reader to believe that this was either:
- straight up harassment of a citizen by LEOs (either acting on their own, or as part of a larger criminal conspiracy within their agency).
- criminals posing as LEOs casing the citizen's home for a future burglary.
- LEOs casing the citizen's home for a future burglary.

It is often quite difficult to say no to someone who is armed - particularly if they are brandishing their weapons in a threatening manner, and operating under the color of authority.

GrizzlyGuy
10-28-2010, 1:00 PM
I forget where I saw this, but I've always thought it good advice.

LEO: KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK
Resident: Who is it?
LEO: Law enforcement, we have a warrant, open the door.
Resident: I don't open the door for law enforcement, if you have a warrant, go ahead and break open the door. I will gladly cooperate fully once you've broken down the door and shown me your warrant.

Yes, that is the agreed upon standard operating procedure for my wife and I should we get any unexpected visits from LEOs. Doors are cheap, legal bills aren't. Doors can be replaced, the time you lost due to loss of your liberty can't be. If it turns out that their warrant was invalid, you have proof (the smashed door) that you did not give consent to entry or search.

You may have heard about the 'let them kick it down' technique from ex-LEO Barry Cooper (http://www.alternet.org/story/146897/ex-cop_goes_rogue_on_the_drug_war,_tells_pot_smokers_ how_to_outsmart_the_police?page=entire) near the end of this great video:

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N6ATF
10-28-2010, 4:51 PM
I forget where I saw this, but I've always thought it good advice.

LEO: KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK
Resident: Who is it?
LEO: Law enforcement, we have a warrant, open the door.
Resident: I don't open the door for law enforcement, if you have a warrant, go ahead and break open the door. I will gladly cooperate fully once you've broken down the door and shown me your warrant.

That's consent. :rolleyes::TFH:

Doheny
10-28-2010, 5:17 PM
I'm always leery when someone says they're a former cop but said person didn't retire after a full career or due to an injury.

The same Barry Cooper from above:
(http://www.oaoa.com/news/cooper-54503-lawsuit-odessa.html)

After several years of locking up drug users, Cooper has advocated for the legalization of marijuana, contending that jails are full of nonviolent criminals. He has spoken openly of his own marijuana use and gained national attention with the release of his DVD series “Never Get Busted,” a video designed to help viewers conceal their drugs, avoid profiling and fool canines searching for narcotics.

Cooper also faces charges in Williamson and Travis counties that stemmed from his Kopbusters hoaxes.

pbchief2
10-29-2010, 6:40 AM
I wanted to thank those that gave advice in this thread. We will be calling CGF for advice and to make them aware of the other actions in the traffic stop that seemed to lead to the visit.

FastFinger
10-29-2010, 7:40 AM
I could see how this goes down. The guy gets pulled over and has a picture of him with some OLL type rifle. Suspecting AW charges, the police take a picture of the picture. Since they have his info from the stop, they lookup the guys PISTOL registration, goes to place of purchase and requests records of all purchases, finds OLL purchase, goes to home to inspect for OLL compliance.

No doubt that scenario is a big stretch...



That scenario isn't a big stretch, if the LEO had a compelling reason to investigate. As it is there just doesn't seem to be that initial compelling reason.

There have certainly been instances of over the top LEO behavior, but those usually happen during some event, in the heat of the moment type situation.

To take the time and deliberately "hunt down" someone based on a photo does seem like a lot of energy being expended based on some photo. Clearly they didn't think there was a life in danger.

Has the OP seen the original photo? Can you describe it? Was it just the typical "here I am with my new AR build" type of picture? Could a reasonable person seeing it think that it shows evidence of a crime?

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6826/crimesceneedited1.jpg

pbchief2
10-29-2010, 7:49 AM
Yes I have seen the original, it has a husband, wife, and child posing with Evil Black Rifles on a camping trip.

GrizzlyGuy
10-29-2010, 8:17 AM
I'm always leery when someone says they're a former cop but said person didn't retire after a full career or due to an injury.

The same Barry Cooper from above:
(http://www.oaoa.com/news/cooper-54503-lawsuit-odessa.html)

Read the story about him here (http://www.alternet.org/story/146897/ex-cop_goes_rogue_on_the_drug_war,_tells_pot_smokers_ how_to_outsmart_the_police?page=entire). It explains why he left the police force and goes into some of his Kopbusters activities.

Intro:

Barry Cooper should know better than anyone that you don’t mess with the police. He was once a cop, and a dirty one at that. But for the past three years, this former narcotics officer has been irritating the hell out of law enforcement, and he’s been steadily raising the stakes, damn the consequences.

Why he left the police force:

“I was the biggest ******* you would ever want to meet in a drug deal,” says Cooper. “I was doing illegal searches, such as making my dog false alert. Or I would say I had an informant to raid a house, when I never did. It’s called using a ‘ghost informant.’ It also includes stealing money. I never planted drugs, but I often threatened to, in order to scare citizens into becoming an informant.”

Cooper served eight years on the force, but after he was caught doing an overzealous search of a black man’s underwear, looking for drugs, his department was sued in federal court. The department settled, but Cooper left the force anyway, frustrated and angry that his superiors hadn’t defended him.

FastFinger
10-29-2010, 8:19 AM
Yes I have seen the original, it has a husband, wife, and child posing with Evil Black Rifles on a camping trip.


Surprised that they didn't send child welfare then - That's a dept that seems to have near unlimited authority to go on fishing expeditions.

inbox485
10-29-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm always leery when someone says they're a former cop but said person didn't retire after a full career or due to an injury.

The same Barry Cooper from above:
(http://www.oaoa.com/news/cooper-54503-lawsuit-odessa.html)

Barry Cooper's advice is fairly limited in scope given his angle, but I try to evaluate ideas on merit rather than source. His idea of let them break it down is iffy IMO. If the officer is willing to let you see the warrant in advance, I say open the door. I wouldn't take their word for it. I wouldn't even take their word at face value that they are real police, but that is a different topic.