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View Full Version : Definition of a "forward pistol grip"??


mikepiet
10-26-2010, 11:56 AM
Hi all,

I've been looking at getting the Hammerhead product for my LWRCI rifle and in addition to that, looking at the other items on the list that make an AR an assult weapon according to the Calguns flow chart.

Despite my best efforts in googling, I can't seem to find anything about the true definition of a forward pistol grip.

I currently run a Bobro mini VFG on my rifle and would not hardly constitute it as a pistol grip.

Can the great experts here educate me as to the definition of a forward pistol grip.

And any thoughts on the magpul angled forward grip?

Thanks in advanced!

Michael

dieselpower
10-26-2010, 12:05 PM
AFG has been ruled by BATFE as a non forward grip. DoJ and CA courts have not faced this in court so its an unknown...you and others using these on featureless builds will be the test case.

more to follow...

I was searching for a post by member Fate. He clearly stated why things are and are not forward grips as per CA law. Sorry buy I can't find it now. Simply put if its marketed as a "grip" and its forward of the trigger its a forward grip. Things that can be used to grip the firearm, but are not "grips" are not forward grips...like a thumb-stop or bi-pod stud.

Too bad I can not find that post. was very clear and well written.

Librarian
10-26-2010, 12:09 PM
The CA regulations (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/) (CCR 5469) merely say "(c) "forward pistol grip" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger."

mikepiet
10-26-2010, 12:17 PM
Hello gentlemen,

Thank you very much for the quick response. I never really hold the VFG as a pistol but if it's off limits, wouldn't want to test the waters when a over-zealous cop confronts me at the range.

Guess I'll have to get use the Magpul AFG.

Thanks again,
Michael

Josh3239
10-26-2010, 1:20 PM
Simply put if its marketed as a "grip" and its forward of the trigger its a forward grip.

1) It is forward pistol grip so whether it is a grip or not is irrelevant.
2) That way of thinking is absolutely ridiculous. If I make a bipod and call it a "Grip-The-Ground Bipod" it is no longer a bipod but a vertical foregrip? And to make it more silly, if I manufacture a forward pistol grip and drill a hole in it and market it as a standing bipod extention and sell it as a bipod stud, is it no longer a forward pistol grip and now a bipod stud?

C'mon people were smarter than this. Pistol style grasp is pretty clear.


Things that can be used to grip the firearm, but are not "grips" are not forward grips...like a thumb-stop or bi-pod stud.

That was not Fate, that was from the DOJ's definition where they clearly stated something to the effect of, slings or bipod studs do not fit the definition of a pistol style grasp.

Fate
10-26-2010, 1:34 PM
Definition: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4213855&postcount=40

Josh is constantly on the opposing side here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4213868&postcount=41

For the previous AFG master thread: read from post 21 on: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254388

dieselpower
10-26-2010, 1:41 PM
1) It is forward pistol grip so whether it is a grip or not is irrelevant.
2) That way of thinking is absolutely ridiculous. If I make a bipod and call it a "Grip-The-Ground Bipod" it is no longer a bipod but a vertical foregrip? And to make it more silly, if I manufacture a forward pistol grip and drill a hole in it and market it as a standing bipod extention and sell it as a bipod stud, is it no longer a forward pistol grip and now a bipod stud?

C'mon people were smarter than this. Pistol style grasp is pretty clear.



That was not Fate, that was from the DOJ's definition where they clearly stated something to the effect of, slings or bipod studs do not fit the definition of a pistol style grasp.

First off, you are writing as if you know the post of Fate's I am talking about. If you have it please post it. I did not say he authored all the legal rulings, only that his post was clear and easily understood by all. Yeah he copied and pasted some info from DoJ..its still his post and he put it together.

I do not agree. A "Grip pod" is a bi-pod & VFG and its only illegal because it is MARKETED to the public as a VFG & Bi-pod. If it was NEVER EVER marketed as a VFG and ONLY as a collapsing bi-pod, it would be legal on a featureless rifle.

If its marketed as a grip and it installs forward of the trigger, it can be ruled a forward pistol grip.

mikepiet
10-26-2010, 2:15 PM
Hi Fate,

Thanks for posting that! That thread about the AFG was very informative and helpful. Like one poster said, when in doubt, leave it out.

Michael

Flopper
10-26-2010, 2:28 PM
Definition: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4213855&postcount=40

Josh is constantly on the opposing side here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4213868&postcount=41

For the previous AFG master thread: read from post 21 on: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254388

+1 on Fate's info in this matter.

Sorry Josh, but you should know by now that logic doesn't enter the equation when firearms laws are brought up.