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gobler
10-26-2010, 12:58 AM
OK so I was having a conversation today with a friend about this. He wants a replica 1897 lever action 12 gauge cut down to resemble the shotty from T2. I told him that as far as I knew it was a no no. SBS, even replicas were not allowed here. Now the info I had I read here but I cannot find it now. What ARE the laws when it comes to Replica Firearms now? Especially SBS, SBR and other NFA type weapons. Thanks.

BIG EDIT for clarification. Would the laws apply to non-firing replicas as well? Like the Denix metal replica guns?

jtmkinsd
10-26-2010, 2:01 AM
OK so I was having a conversation today with a friend about this. He wants a replica 1897 lever action 12 gauge cut down to resemble the shotty from T2. I told him that as far as I knew it was a no no. SBS, even replicas were not allowed here. Now the info I had I read here but I cannot find it now. What ARE the laws when it comes to Replica Firearms now? Especially SBS, SBR and other NFA type weapons. Thanks.

Replicas are modern firearms. All laws for modern firearms apply. They have no special exemptions (unless they are black powder guns).

gobler
10-26-2010, 2:12 AM
That's what I thought. Would you know the appropriate PC? Or at least point me in the right direction? :)

I had to edit my OP for clarification... sorry.

jtmkinsd
10-26-2010, 2:22 AM
That's what I thought. Would you know the appropriate PC? Or at least point me in the right direction? :)

I had to edit my OP for clarification... sorry.

IIRC, you can't even chamber a round in a Denix right?

gobler
10-26-2010, 2:38 AM
IIRC, you can't even chamber a round in a Denix right?

Correct. So would this exempt a non-firing replica? No matter what the type? Shotgun (sawed off) rifle ect... I could have sworn I read somewhere that in Ca Replica NFA guns are no go... :confused:

jtmkinsd
10-26-2010, 2:41 AM
as far as PC goes...for the relevant definitions there is CA PC 12001(b) to define "firearm" and PC 12001(e) for "antique" firearms...which defers to the Federal Title 18 921(a) (16) which states:

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

jtmkinsd
10-26-2010, 2:49 AM
Correct. So would this exempt a non-firing replica? No matter what the type? Shotgun (sawed off) rifle ect... I could have sworn I read somewhere that in Ca Replica NFA guns are no go... :confused:

I will tell you that you don't have to go through any authority to buy non-firing replica guns...they are not firearms. What I can also tell you is I'm an FFL, not a lawyer. I don't know of any State laws prohibiting non-firing replicas. So perhapse someone else will answer that portion of your post.

gobler
10-26-2010, 3:10 AM
I do appreciate your help none the less. Ca gun laws are so damn screwy that it may very well be a major crime ;)

AJAX22
10-26-2010, 4:23 AM
The t2 shotgun was a 10 gauge with a 12 gauge aluminum barrel fitted to it.

It was also dimensionally correct to be legal.

18 inch barrel with 26 inch overall length

pullnshoot25
10-26-2010, 6:05 AM
Replica firearms are cool to possess, you just can't publicly display them. In fact, publicly displaying a replica firearm is almost worse than displaying a real one.

gobler
10-26-2010, 11:18 AM
Thanks for this info.. :D

winnre
10-26-2010, 11:26 AM
Like this?


http://www.imgjoe.com/x/22701withmar.jpgg/IMG]

Get them here: http://www.collectorsarmoury.com/ep5sf/

gobler
10-26-2010, 12:07 PM
:) ooh, nice looking rifle. Looks similar to the Zoe "Firefly" rifle. So that would be GTG here in comifornia? "excellent..."

jtmkinsd
10-26-2010, 12:55 PM
:) ooh, nice looking rifle. Looks similar to the Zoe "Firefly" rifle. So that would be GTG here in comifornia? "excellent..."

Yep...but like the man said...don't have it in public (brandishing a replica is a major offense...which could cost you dearly, including your right to own real firearms.)

dieselpower
10-26-2010, 12:58 PM
Like this?



Get them here: http://www.collectorsarmoury.com/ep5sf/

they don't have the MP5SD Navy :( I loved that firearm.

joedogboy
10-26-2010, 1:19 PM
I will tell you that you don't have to go through any authority to buy non-firing replica guns...they are not firearms. What I can also tell you is I'm an FFL, not a lawyer. I don't know of any State laws prohibiting non-firing replicas. So perhapse someone else will answer that portion of your post.

Also not a lawyer, but I can assure you that if you use a replica weapon (non firing, airsoft, or whatever) in an illegal manner (threaten someone with it, for example), it can be legally the same as if you used an actual functioning firearm of that type. In addition, LE (and others)may respond as if you have that actual type of firearm, which can create a host of problems for you.

gobler
10-26-2010, 1:47 PM
This is mainly for a display piece for a prop collection. A buddy of mine has a large assortment of replica (and actual film props) in his privet collection and asked me on the various "film" guns. Some folks do go to conventions dressed up as characters, some of which have guns i.e. Stormtroopers from Star Wars (uses replica Sterling's as a base) or Zoe from Firefly. You get the point. Now, it is a privet event which normally allows these weapons so I have no idea if brandishing falls under any loophole? But back to the main reason which was/is for privet display in home.

oni.dori
10-26-2010, 2:18 PM
Replica firearms are cool to possess, you just can't publicly display them. In fact, publicly displaying a replica firearm is almost worse than displaying a real one.

What do you mean by public display? Are we talking hanging it over the mantle as a decorative piece, where people visiting can see it also; or are we talking taking it out in to actual public spaces/places?

dieselpower
10-26-2010, 2:23 PM
What do you mean by public display? Are we talking hanging it over the mantle as a decorative piece, where people visiting can see it also; or are we talking taking it out in to actual public spaces/places?

In public. If a person sees it and believes its a real firearm you can be charged with it as a real firearm.

Long long time ago you could not be charged with armed robbery if you had a fake firearm....not any more. It is what it was assumed to be by persons around you.


FYI. I hang a Mp-5SD Navy (replica) over my fireplace. I tell a guest its a real MP-5SD Navy I took from my armory back in the day when I was in the Navy. Guess what....If that person tells BATFE the story...thats PC to bust my front door down and microscope my whole life. NFA is clear on that. Of course the actions of the LEO will be held to a standard...ruby ridge...Wacco...

oni.dori
10-26-2010, 2:25 PM
In public. If a person sees it and believes its a real firearm you can be charged with it as a real firearm.

Long long time ago you could not be charged with armed robbery if you had a fake firearm....not any more. It is what it was assumed to be by persons around you.

Ok, that is what I had thought, but I wanted to be 100% clear.

Quiet
10-26-2010, 6:54 PM
CA law defines "replica guns" as imitation firearms.

Here are the CA laws in regards to imitation firearms.
Pay attention to PC 12556.


Penal Code 12551
As used in this article, the following definitions apply:
(a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001.
(b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001.
(c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.

Penal Code 12553
Any person who changes, alters, removes, or obliterates any coloration or markings that are required for by any applicable state or federal law or regulation, for any imitation firearm, or device described in subdivision (c) of Section 12555, in any way that makes the imitation firearm or device look more like a firearm is guilty of a misdemeanor. This subdivision shall not apply to manufacturer, importer, or distributor of imitation firearms or to the lawful use in theatrical productions, including motion pictures, television, and stage productions.
(b) Any manufacturer, importer, or distributor of imitation firearms that fails to comply with any applicable federal law or regulation governing the marking of a toy, look-alike or imitation firearm as defined by federal law or regulation is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Penal Code 12554
(a) Any imitation firearm manufactured after July 1, 2005, shall, at the time of offer for sale in this state, be accompanied by a conspicuous advisory in writing as part of the packaging, but not necessarily affixed to the imitation firearm, to the effect that the product may be mistaken for a firearm by law enforcement officers or others, that altering the coloration or markings required by state or federal law or regulations so as to make the product look more like a firearm is dangerous, and may be a crime, and that brandishing or displaying the product in public may cause confusion and may be a crime.
(b) Any manufacturer, importer, or distributor that fails to comply with this advisory for any imitation firearm manufactured after July 1, 2005, shall be liable for a civil fine for each action brought by a city attorney or district attorney of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) for the first action, five thousand dollars ($5,000) for the second action, and ten thousand dollars ($10,000) for the third action and each subsequent action.

Penal Code 12555
Any person who, for commercial purposes, purchases, sells, manufactures, ships, transports, distributes, or receives, by mail order or in any other manner, an imitation firearm except as authorized by this section shall be liable for a civil fine in an action brought by the city attorney or the district attorney of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) for each violation.
(b) The manufacture, purchase, sale, shipping, transport, distribution, or receipt, by mail or in any other manner, of imitation firearms is authorized if the device is manufactured, purchased, sold, shipped, transported, distributed, or received for any of the following purposes:
(1) Solely for export in interstate or foreign commerce.
(2) Solely for lawful use in theatrical productions, including motion picture, television, and stage productions.
(3) For use in a certified or regulated sporting event or competition.
(4) For use in military or civil defense activities, or ceremonial activities.
(5) For public displays authorized by public or private schools.
(c) As used in this section, "imitation firearm" does not include any of the following:
(1) A nonfiring collector's replica that is historically significant, and is offered for sale in conjunction with a wall plaque or presentation case.
(2) A BB device, as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001.
(3) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, as provided by federal regulations governing imitation firearms, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents, as provided by federal regulations governing imitation firearms.

Penal Code 12556
(a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable as a misdemeanor.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
(1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public viewing.
(2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or restoration of the imitation firearm.
(3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video, television, or stage production.
(4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting event or competition.
(5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest control activities.
(6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private shooting ranges.
(7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities, including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials.
(9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private schools or displays that are part of a museum collection.
(10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case.
(12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful.
(13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
(e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots, automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or dwellings.
(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.

gobler
10-26-2010, 7:55 PM
Quiet, that is exactly what I needed. Thank you. :)


Man, I love this place. ;)