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va_dinger
10-25-2010, 11:07 PM
Vickers Tactical AK Operators Class - Aug 20-21, 2011 - Chino, CA.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

www.vickerstactical.com

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/LAVAK1.jpg

Larry Vickers is a decorated US Army Special Forces veteran and national pistol champion. Mr. Vickers has nearly two decades of special operations experience (1 SFOD-Delta), much of which was spent as his unit’s Primary Firearms Instructor. In addition to his special operations accomplishments, his competitive shooting has yielded a 10th and 9th place finish in the 1993 and 1994 USPSA Limited Nationals as well as a 1st place finish in CDP class at the 2001 IDPA Mid-Winter Nationals at Smith & Wesson. Mr. Vickers is a founding member of IDPA. In addition to being a highly experienced operator and national pistol champion, Mr. Vickers is also one of the premier 1911 pistolsmiths in the country and his work has been featured in several firearms publications and on the cover of American Handgunner. In addition to all this, Mr. Vickers has served as a consultant and technical expert to the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers is featured on two new firearms, tactics, and accessories focused T.V. shows called Tactical Impact and Tactical Arms.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

Vickers Tactical AK Operators Class - Aug 20-21, 2011 - Chino, CA.

Topics covered include safety, stance, zeroing for iron sights and optics, sight alignment and trigger control. Familiarization with their carbine includes field stripping and maintenance. Other subject matter that is covered includes reloads, presentation, shooting positions, and introduction to different skill drills including dry fire and bullseye shooting. Malfunction drills and shooting on the move as well as transitions. Timed fire drills and evaluations based on class skill level. Instruction on the development of the AK and variations, as well as suggested modifications.

Must shoot an AK or AK variant (AK-47, AKM-47, AK-74, Galil, Valmet, VZ 58 style rifles, etc.)


Instructor: Larry Vickers

Class dates: Aug 20-21, 2011

Cost: $450

Location: Chino, CA

Range facilities:

Prado Olympic Shooting Park
17501 Pomona Rincon Rd.
Chino, CA., 91708

Range website:
www.shootprado.com

Gear requirements:

- Eye protection
- Electronic hearing protection
- Serviceable handgun (For transition training) of at least 9mm
- Ammunition required: 800 rifle, 150 pistol
- As many CA legal mags as possible.
- Minimum two (2) handgun mags
- Chest pouch to hold 3-4 AK mags would be “Nice” – LAV quote
- Handgun mag pouch - Ability to carry a spare pistol mag on body.
- Serviceable AK sling- suitable for a variety of shooting positions - tactical type preferred
- Suitable handgun holster
- Suitable range wear depending on the season
- Rifles zeroed at 100 meters.
- Good attitude.

***There are no pre-requisites for this course. It can be your very first class. As a matter of fact if you are familiar with AK’s at all, you will probably be ahead of the curve. That being said this is not a beginner class either, in Larry's words "This class will knock their socks off"***

If you are interested in attending this class please use this link to the Grey Group Training sign-up page:
http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3614/LAV-2-dsh-Day-AK-Operator/Detail.bok

If you have any additional questions please feel free to contact me;
training@greygrouptraining.com

SxB
10-26-2010, 12:00 AM
Ooo. I'm in.

SMGLee
10-26-2010, 10:41 AM
Larry Vickers on the AK47.....

-noya_t-7R0&feature=related

ACcrtrFgDE8

An AK class from an operator with 16 years of SpecOps experience that have used it in anger and taught men heading in harms way on how to run this system effectively.. I figure its about time we bring him in to learn from the man that believe the AK system is one of his most favorite combat platform. This is a class long time in planning. I have been working with Grey group since early this year to try to get LAV to teach an AK class, finally we are able to align his time and range time to bring this class to you.

Also link to a Calgunner's AAR on his experience with LAV's AK class.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=190139

another AAR by a M4carbine moderator.
The Vickers Tactical AK course is designed to teach a student the skills and techniques necessary to use the AK platform effectively as a tool for serious social interaction.

The AK is one of the most popular assault rifles in the world, and yet is also probably the most misunderstood assault rifle within the US. As a kid I remember growing up with all kinds of stories the poor quality of com-bloc weapons, their unreliability, and their minute of barn accuracy. The AK, the preferred weapon of our enemy….which makes a distinctive sound when fired at us, sir…was always billed as inferior and incapable.

After half a day Mr. Vickers is usually able to pretty much put all of that nonsense to rest.

Mr. Vickers is an expert on the AK platform from an operational as well as a technical perspective. This means that he can teach you the most effective way to handle and manipulate the AK and is just as capable of giving sage advice in regards to the purchase, setup, and maintenance of an AK. AK’s on the civilian market here in the US are not created equal and the expert advice of someone who knows the ins and outs of the market can save a lot of money and frustration. Many AK’s on gunstore shelves here in the US are an amalgamation of parts from a bunch of different sources…which can cause problems. Before the course even started one individual’s AK was found to have a military safety installed on it that was incompatible with the 922r compliant fire control group in the gun. A simple attempt to adjust the tension on the safety (a simple process) turned into a need to completely replace the safety. I took the Blackjack lever off of my VEPR and we installed it on his gun so he could run the course with it.

The marriage of all these parts from different sources with different tolerances can lead to serious problems. Another individual found that out the hard way when he attempted to disengage the safety on his rifle and the weapon discharged. Thankfully this during a drill and the weapon was pointed in a safe direction so no one was in any sort of danger. Still, it should serve to demonstrate the potential issues you can have with AK builds…and perhaps show why playing with the safety isn’t a good idea if you are behind the line. In this instance the operator was disengaging the safety to complete of a drill just as he was supposed to, but he had an unforeseen equipment issue which resulted in a loud noise when one was not intended. Good handling habits on his part turned something that could have been really bad news into nothing more than a teaching point about the pitfalls of AK parts.

There was also an issue with slings during this course. There are a number of different sling options out there on the market these days, but at least in my humble opinion all of them are not created equal. In this course I saw two rifles part ways with slings because of unnecessarily complex attachment points. One was a gun Mr. Vickers borrowed to do a demo. He took the weapon and the front sling attachment popped right off of the gun. Mr. Vickers had positive control of the weapon so there was no problem, just a slight delay to get the sling back on the gun. The other happened behind the line when I was talking to another student and his rifle, which had just been cleared by design on a previous drill, flopped off of the single-point arrangement he had going and hit the dirt. Mr. Vickers mentioned to one of the students that all the whiz-bang buckles and attachment stuff you see on some slings these days are essentially possible points of failure. Simpler generally is better in regards to sling arrangements, which is why Mr. Vickers’ signature sling is designed as it is. The design is deceptively simple but made of very high quality materials and arranged to provide the best possible security as well as excellent functionality.

One of the first myths about the AK to be demolished was accuracy. AK’s are often billed as inaccurate weapons, and Mr. Vickers was careful to explain that AK’s do have some inherent accuracy limitations due to the nature of their production and to the ammo available. Still, when properly zeroed the weapons themselves are capable of delivering more than enough accuracy to get the job done. To emphasize this Mr. Vickers had us shooting at 6” NRA bullseye targets during the majority of the class. Whether the drill was static, shooting from the weak shoulder, or shooting on the move, the goal was to put all shots in the black whether we were 5 yards from the target or 50. The only respite from the 6” bullseyes to be found was the walkback drills which required hitting a 12” x 12” steel plate. That wasn’t so bad at 25 yards…but 12” seems kind of small at 125 yards. Still, we had lots of people making hits with AK’s at 125 yards, even with iron sights and a 4 second par time.

At the encouragement of a few students during one walkback, Mr. Vickers took us back to 200 yards. From 200 yards, standing, offhand, several students scored solid dead center hits on a 12” steel plate with an AK pattern rifle and a hodgepodge of bulk quality 7.62x39mm ammo. (Only one shooter was using a 5.45 AK, and only Mr. Vickers had an AK in 5.56) I made the hit at 200 yards with Templar’s VZ-58, which he was kind enough to let me borrow for the course.

So much for the minute of barn accuracy attributed to com-bloc weapons. The only person who could legitimately claim that they missed due to equipment would have been, ironically enough, Mr. Vickers who was T&E’ing a new iron sight for his beater AK that didn’t seem to hold a zero very well. The rest of us could blame all of our misses entirely on failures in the trigger control and sight management departments.

There was a mixture of different hardware at the class which the pictures will relate far better than I can. It was rather curious that all but one of the weapons at the class was in 7.62x39mm. About 1/3 of the class was using some sort of red dot sight if I recall correctly, while most of us were using irons.

There were a number of really good shooters in the class. Chris Barrett (of Barrett Mfg. fame) was consistently one of the better shooters on the line. A young Marine (whom we affectionately nicknamed Gunny Highway) showed the benefits of Corps rifle training and some serious bullseye competition with his superb shooting. This was GermanSynergy’s first Vickers course, which is usually a bit of a shock to the system for most in regards to Mr. Vickers’ legendarily high accuracy standards, but he handled it well and shot very well through the entire course despite dealing with a busted rifle. We were fortunate enough to have a medical professional in the course who shot extremely well, generally turning in one of the better performances on any drill. Templar was performing to his usually high commie weapon shooting standards. We were even graced by the presence of a lady shooter who did a pretty good job of getting her hits despite dealing with a rifle that didn’t fit her well.

All in all it was a good course with a lot of good material, some excellent shooters, and some good fellowship. The Drake’s Landing range facility was great. The only thing that would have made it better was the installation of some shade. The sun seemed brutally oppressive over the weekend for some reason which left people a bit fried (figuratively and literally…I think we all have raccoon eyes from the eyepro) by the end of the day. Other than that, the range was clean, well-maintained, and very user friendly. Kudos to Drake’s landing.

If you are serious about learning the AK, this course is a must. It’s difficult to think of anyone else on the planet who can match the unique combination of operational experience, technical expertise on the AK, and raw teaching ability that Mr. Vickers brings to this course. That is a big reason why you see so many repeat students in his classes. Even if you’ve been through the exact same course before, you still walk away learning a great deal. I continue to train with Mr. Vickers because even after attending as many courses as I have with him I always walk away thinking about things differently than I did before.

Part of that could be that I'm about as teachable as a brick, but I think the majority of it is due to the quality of instruction. ;)




This class will be hosted at Prado shooting park in Chino Hills, easy access to various restaurants and hotels. all within a easy five to ten minutes drive.

drummerdude1188
10-26-2010, 2:59 PM
Also link to a Calgunner's AAR on his experience with LAV's AK class.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=190139


Hey thats me:D Well this sounds great, Its a bit far off to make any plans, but if I can im gonna try and make it. Im assuming you'll be there Lee?

va_dinger
10-27-2010, 3:28 PM
Yeah, this will be one awesome class. No question about it. The combination of Larry's unrivaled AK knowledge, world-class teaching and shooting abilities, and absolute tip of the spear Tier One Special Operations experience makes for one hell of a class. In this class you will be learning from a guy who straight up loves the AK, has used one in harms way often, and can shoot one at a world-class level.

No one else can match a Vickers Tactical AK class.

coma13
10-27-2010, 9:21 PM
Gear requirements:

- Minimum four (4) high capacity AK mags

So is there some sort of magical California law exemption for this class?

MrNiceGuy
10-27-2010, 9:58 PM
WTH.....I fly all the way to S. Carolina to his class and now he's doing a class in my back yard? Grrrrrr........

Guess I'll have to go again....since it's AK n all......

Anyone know a somewhere good to stay and places to eat down around that area?

SMGLee
10-27-2010, 10:02 PM
So is there some sort of magical California law exemption for this class?

The post are written as in general, this same post would appear in various other states. Paul just did not realize the change require for California guns.

For those of you with OLL AK platform, you are welcome to run bullet buttons, or monster man grip. LAV will tailor the class to fit your needs. he has already garner plenty of experience with those configurations.

Please bring plenty of ten rounds magazines in order to keep the class flowing smoothly.

Someone asked about ammo restrictions, at Prado, we do not have any problems with steel core ammo.

Thank you.

coma13
10-27-2010, 11:09 PM
The post are written as in general, this same post would appear in various other states. Paul just did not realize the change require for California guns.

For those of you with OLL AK platform, you are welcome to run bullet buttons, or monster man grip. LAV will tailor the class to fit your needs. he has already garner plenty of experience with those configurations.

Please bring plenty of ten rounds magazines in order to keep the class flowing smoothly.

Someone asked about ammo restrictions, at Prado, we do not have any problems with steel core ammo.

Thank you.

Right on. I'm a featureless guy myself, but I was curious. I might just have to take a trip down south for this.

SMGLee
10-28-2010, 10:16 AM
WTH.....I fly all the way to S. Carolina to his class and now he's doing a class in my back yard? Grrrrrr........

Guess I'll have to go again....since it's AK n all......

Anyone know a somewhere good to stay and places to eat down around that area?

Guys,

Best Airport to flight into would be Ontario airport. but John Wayne in Orange county can work for you too. but my recommendation is Ontario. It is only ten minutes from the range.
Ontario Airport (http://maps.google.com/maps?rlz=1C1DVCA_enUS330US330&q=Ontario+airport&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=ONTARIO+airport,+Ontario,+CA+91761&gl=us&ei=nDhXTKD2I468sQP-kv22Dw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ8gEwAA)

As far as lodge, you have a choice of Holiday Inn express and Ayres Inn about five minutes from the range.
Ayres Hotel (http://www.ayreshotels.com/chinohills/)

Holiday Inn Express (http://www.hiexpress.com/hotels/us/en/laxch/hoteldetail?cm_mmc=mdpr-_-googlemaps-_-ex-_-laxch)

Food source are plenty, you are near the town center of Chino Hills, you have restaurants like Yard House, PF Cheng(yike) to Chills to In and Out burger( best burger in town), Sushi, Mexican, Pizza and Chinese. everything you need are no more then a five to ten minutes drive from the range.
Some of the eatery suggestions (http://maps.google.com/maps?rlz=1C1DVCA_enUS330US330&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=restaurent+near+chino+hills&fb=1&gl=us&hq=restaurent&hnear=Chino+Hills,+CA&view=text&ei=5jhXTOHoDYLSsAOSopzaAg&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CC0QtQMwAA)

Ammunition can be drop shipped to the Range, just make sure you notify me in advance so I can request the range manager to keep an eye out for it.

MrNiceGuy
10-28-2010, 11:42 AM
Thx for the intel!

Last question....anyone know where I can get a case of surplus 5.45 and/or cheap 7.62x39 around Chino?

Thinking about coming into town a day early, visit some gun shops for fun, and get some ammo for the class.

If no options locally, I guess I can always order online and have it shipped to the range directly.

va_dinger
10-28-2010, 1:20 PM
The post are written as in general, this same post would appear in various other states. Paul just did not realize the change require for California guns.

For those of you with OLL AK platform, you are welcome to run bullet buttons, or monster man grip. LAV will tailor the class to fit your needs. he has already garner plenty of experience with those configurations.

Please bring plenty of ten rounds magazines in order to keep the class flowing smoothly.

Someone asked about ammo restrictions, at Prado, we do not have any problems with steel core ammo.

Thank you.

Thanks Chen for explaining it perfectly.

:D

SMGLee
10-28-2010, 2:53 PM
Thx for the intel!

Last question....anyone know where I can get a case of surplus 5.45 and/or cheap 7.62x39 around Chino?

Thinking about coming into town a day early, visit some gun shops for fun, and get some ammo for the class.

If no options locally, I guess I can always order online and have it shipped to the range directly.

Try Ammo Brothers in City of Ontario. Maybe you can order it from them and do a pick up at their Ontario store location.

va_dinger
10-30-2010, 8:31 AM
Someone asked about ammo restrictions, at Prado, we do not have any problems with steel core ammo.

Thank you.

Wow, that is a big plus for this class.

It makes ammo easy as pie. :D

va_dinger
12-05-2010, 12:59 PM
FYI: This class is very close to being 1/2 full. Very impressive response, and Vickers Tactical / Grey group Training thanks you.

Trust me, this is one of Larry's favorite classes. It will be amazing to attend.

Thanks,

Paul

va_dinger
12-21-2010, 9:46 AM
Thx for the intel!
If no options locally, I guess I can always order online and have it shipped to the range directly.

Yes Sir, that is an option.

Just let me or SMGLee know if you need to do that. We would be happy to arrange it for you.

The Bacon Eater
12-25-2010, 8:22 PM
Im in for this one.

va_dinger
01-09-2011, 9:48 AM
Im in for this one.

Welcome aboard.

Trust me, you guys are in for the finest AK class in the world. Taught by a man who loves the AK, knows the AK inside & out, has used it operationally, and served sixteen years in one of the finest SO units in the world. No matter how you cut it, that is an unbeatable combination.

Bangbangboogie
01-10-2011, 11:16 PM
As for ammo in the local area, Bass pro off of Foothill on the 15 fwy, south of bass pro Ammo Bro, Turners outdoorsman in ontario & chino

SMGLee
01-14-2011, 10:31 AM
Update: At this time, the LAV AK class will be sponsored by Tangodown/US Palm and Midwest Industries. Both manufactures will provide the standard affair in giveaways such as tshirts and hats, Tangodiwn will give away some of their US Palm AK Battlegrip, TD rail panels, VFGs. Midwest will step up with few of their AK rails, sling swivels and other MI accessories.

Few more AK related manufactures are pending. I will announce them as soon as they are confirmed.

SMGLee
03-04-2011, 3:04 PM
New sponsor just joined this class. US Palms will donate a plate carrier with a set of their level 4 multi hits armor plates as the first place shooter prize. Also for the rest of the class, we will have plenty of ten rds magazines, and other AK related items to give away.


http://www.us-palm.com/administrator/components/com_products/images/products/ASP-C_A.jpg

http://www.us-palm.com/

Big welcome and a thanks to US Palms for the generous prize.

One more big name AK manufacture to be announce within week.

epikeddie
03-05-2011, 6:05 AM
Oh man....I can't wait!

I was just watching LAV's video on the AK platform too.....time to bring the Arsenal SGL-21 and my Sig out!

bb2007
03-15-2011, 6:44 PM
I am in.

va_dinger
03-17-2011, 7:50 AM
I am in.

Welcome aboard my friend.

You are in for hell of a class.

ramzar
03-17-2011, 5:04 PM
Being new to the AK world (I shot a few rounds about three years ago) what AK variant does Larry recommend? That includes the rifle, ammo (7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56x45, etc.) and add-ons like sling and optics. Perhaps shed some light on CA-legal AK rifles. That way I can possibly procure one and attend the class in August.

va_dinger
03-18-2011, 4:57 AM
Being new to the AK world (I shot a few rounds about three years ago) what AK variant does Larry recommend? That includes the rifle, ammo (7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56x45, etc.) and add-ons like sling and optics. Perhaps shed some light on CA-legal AK rifles. That way I can possibly procure one and attend the class in August.

Larry is a fan of the Arsenal built Bulgarian & Russian AK's. I've heard him say numerous times they run and will last forever.

There are also numerous builders who will build a CA Legal AK. I know Atlantic Firearms has several available. I purchased a Vector Arms build AK from them only a few weeks ago. It was absolutely perfect.

In classes I notice Larry swaps back-in-forth between his 35+ AK's on different days. He could be shooting a bone stock Romanian WASR, Arsenal, or his Piece of History Firearms build Russian clone AKM one day and then switch to his tricked out Arsenal 100 series AK with all the goodies the next. This includes an Ulti-Mak mount, Aimpoint T-1, Vltor light mount, improved ergonomics safety lever, etc on his "Modern or Improved" Arsenal SLR-106 SBR.

Luckily CA guys have numerous options now for a sweet AK. That wasn't always the case a few years ago.

ramzar
03-18-2011, 12:00 PM
Larry is a fan of the Arsenal built Bulgarian & Russian AK's. I've heard him say numerous times they run and will last forever.

There are also numerous builders who will build a CA Legal AK. I know Atlantic Firearms has several available. I purchased a Vector Arms build AK from them only a few weeks ago. It was absolutely perfect.

In classes I notice Larry swaps back-in-forth between his 35+ AK's on different days. He could be shooting a bone stock Romanian WASR, Arsenal, or his Piece of History Firearms build Russian clone AKM one day and then switch to his tricked out Arsenal 100 series AK with all the goodies the next. This includes an Ulti-Mak mount, Aimpoint T-1, Vltor light mount, improved ergonomics safety lever, etc on his "Modern or Improved" Arsenal SLR-106 SBR.

Luckily CA guys have numerous options now for a sweet AK. That wasn't always the case a few years ago.



Great feedback Paul. Thank you.

bb2007
03-19-2011, 9:39 PM
Hi Ram.

We taking another class together? Hope you sign up.

JOHNNYRAMBO
04-05-2011, 10:03 AM
Very excited for this opportunity!!!

And so close to home :)

va_dinger
04-07-2011, 9:22 AM
Very excited for this opportunity!!!

And so close to home :)

Wow, your in for some world-class training this year. :D

SMGLee
04-14-2011, 3:25 PM
QABoEzyBm9w

va_dinger
06-03-2011, 12:40 PM
QABoEzyBm9w

That is Larry's awesome Soviet clone AKM built by Mario at Piece of History Firearms.

It is one of the most beautiful AKM's I have ever seen. :D

specialDFX
06-14-2011, 4:16 PM
wow...site shows this as still open. Can anyone confirm?

gunsmithcats
06-15-2011, 11:41 AM
Down like a clown charlie brown.
just signed up!

va_dinger
06-23-2011, 6:25 PM
wow...site shows this as still open. Can anyone confirm?

Yes Sir, we have a few open seats for the class still available.

Please feel free to sign-up. If you have any questions please let me know. I am always glad to help.

Thanks,

Paul

Shark06
06-24-2011, 4:09 PM
I've officially signed up! (Actually just bought a AKM Polish underfolder, only hours ago.) :)

va_dinger
06-30-2011, 7:09 AM
Welcome aboard.

FYI To Everyone:

We are down to last 1-2 seats before this class is full.

batstrider
06-30-2011, 10:10 AM
read on one of the AAR threads that an unconverted Saiga isn't ideal for this class, but I feel like the main difference is the stock and positioning of the firing hand, but that's more useful to me than a grip fin or mag lock. Considering that's what I've got would my rifle selection really be THAT much of a hindrance to me?

va_dinger
06-30-2011, 2:29 PM
read on one of the AAR threads that an unconverted Saiga isn't ideal for this class, but I feel like the main difference is the stock and positioning of the firing hand, but that's more useful to me than a grip fin or mag lock. Considering that's what I've got would my rifle selection really be THAT much of a hindrance to me?

Hell no, it will make no difference at all. :D

If you interested in attending please do let something like that hold you back.

JOHNNYRAMBO
07-08-2011, 9:09 AM
Ammo available for students.

only10x
07-08-2011, 9:15 AM
Damn sounds like an awesome opportunity. too bad i dont own one or even shot one:(

va_dinger
07-09-2011, 4:39 PM
If anyone needs ammo for the course I can help. I can bring it to the course for you, or ship it to your door before hand.

PM me if you are interested.

That is one hell of an offer.

Thank you.

va_dinger
07-13-2011, 6:59 PM
This class is now full.

Thank to everyone who signed up. You guys are in for the world's finest AK class.

Paul

only10x
07-13-2011, 8:25 PM
When are you getting a pistol class out here?

ramzar
07-13-2011, 10:23 PM
When are you getting a pistol class out here?



Grey Group Training has TigerSwan in town end of October for a great pistol class.

TigerSwan 2-Day Tactical Pistol - Oct 29-30, 2011 - Chino, CA. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=356523)

lewisracing
07-16-2011, 2:30 PM
This class is now full.

Thank to everyone who signed up. You guys are in for the world's finest AK class.

Paul

If someone drops out, please let me know.

va_dinger
07-16-2011, 10:46 PM
If someone drops out, please let me know.

No problem, I suggest sending Sarah an email;

Help@greygrouptraining.com

She can easily add you to the stand-by list.

Thanks,

Paul

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-07-2011, 7:36 PM
Here ya go!

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/JohnnyRambo10/tulaammo.jpg

AMMO (http://www.calegalmags.com/TULA-762x39-FMJ-122-Gr-Non-Corrosive-1000-Round-Case_p_519.html) <---LINK TO AMMO, CLICK HERE!

There are two options in the drop down menu-

A. SHIP IT TO MY ADDRESS
B. PICK UP AT VICKERS COURSE

I will be attending both days of the Vickers AK course as a student. I am a also a dealer and I can help fellow students who need ammo for the course. Orders must be placed on my website no later than AUGUST 12th. I will bring cases of ammo for all those who order on the website and choose "PICK UP AT VICKERS COURSE". Or if you want it shipped to your home or location you can choose "SHIP IT TO MY ADDRESS".

Please place orders no later than AUGUST 12, that is the deadline for orders please.

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-07-2011, 7:50 PM
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/JohnnyRambo10/IMG_8106.jpg

Shark06
08-07-2011, 10:09 PM
Nice one, Johnny! Just pinned my folder and installing my AKBC BattleComp!

batstrider
08-13-2011, 4:36 AM
Anybody got a spare, PALS-compatible, non lightbearing holster for G19s? Totally forgot SERPAs aren't allowed for Vickers classes...

va_dinger
08-13-2011, 5:23 PM
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/JohnnyRambo10/IMG_8106.jpg
FEATURELESS
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/JohnnyRambo10/IMG_8120.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/JohnnyRambo10/IMG_8139.jpg

Damn nice!

only10x
08-14-2011, 1:48 AM
why not remove the retention device?

Anybody got a spare, PALS-compatible, non lightbearing holster for G19s? Totally forgot SERPAs aren't allowed for Vickers classes...

batstrider
08-14-2011, 5:49 PM
The tension screw popped out a while back so it's only the SERPA lock holding it in...

All good, just went to WalMart, grabbed some zipties and attached my Safariland directly to my belt.

SMGLee
08-15-2011, 2:54 PM
Nice one, Johnny! Just pinned my folder and installing my AKBC BattleComp!

Battlecomp team will be in force at the LAV AK class.

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-15-2011, 2:58 PM
I wish they made a Battlecomp for the 24x1 thread pattern.

That is the one thing I do not like about my Arsenal, it is very limited on brakes.

SMGLee
08-15-2011, 5:46 PM
I wish they made a Battlecomp for the 24x1 thread pattern.

That is the one thing I do not like about my Arsenal, it is very limited on brakes.

You could get your wish come true. a prototype 24x1mmLH AK47 brake along with a AKBC74 brake will make its maiden appearance at the class.

BTW, the weather is between 82-84 degrees. it will be a great class.

Shark06
08-15-2011, 8:51 PM
Battlecomp team will be in force at the LAV AK class.

Nice!

Chatterbox
08-16-2011, 11:52 AM
The forecasts I see are pointing towards low 90s. Anybody has suggestions on heat management?

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-16-2011, 12:12 PM
Lots of water

Chatterbox
08-16-2011, 12:17 PM
Thanks, JOHNYRAMBO, highly appreciated.

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-16-2011, 12:28 PM
TMI

Shark06
08-16-2011, 10:34 PM
Dudes,

08 start time??

badduggy
08-17-2011, 5:14 PM
here is the copied text from an email i received from grey group back in dec.

Hey everyone,

Welcome to the LAV 2-Day AK Operators class on August 20-21, 2011 in Chino, CA. Start time for the class is 8am. Below is the address and directions for the range, as well as some info on what the course covers and the required equipment and ammunition for the course.

Here is a link showing what lodging options are near the range, if you need them:

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=lodging+17501+Pomona+Rincon+Rd+Chino,+CA+91708&fb=1&gl=us&hq=lodging&hnear=17501+Pomona+Rincon+Rd,+Chino,+CA+91708&ei=qS_QTMK6HMT7lwe38cThBg&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQtgMwAA

Range info:

Prado Olympic Shooting Park

17501 Pomona Rincon Rd

Chino, CA 91708

www.shootprado.com

Topics covered include safety, stance, zeroing for iron sights and optics, sight alignment and trigger control. Familiarization with their carbine includes field stripping and maintenance. Other subject matter that is covered includes reloads, presentation, shooting positions, and introduction to different skill drills including dry fire and bulls eye shooting. Malfunction drills and shooting on the move as well as transitions. Timed fire drills and evaluations based on class skill level. Instruction on the development of the AK and variations, as well as suggested modifications.

Must shoot an AK or AK variant (AK-47, AKM-47, AK-74, Galil, Valmet, VZ 58 style rifles, etc.)

Gear requirements:

- Eye protection

- Electronic hearing protection

- Serviceable handgun (For transition training) of at least 9mm

- Minimum four (4) high capacity AK mags

- Minimum two (2) handgun mags

- Chest pouch to hold 3-4 AK mags would be “Nice” – LAV quote

- Handgun mag pouch - Ability to carry a spare pistol mag on body.

- Serviceable AK sling- suitable for a variety of shooting positions - tactical type preferred

- Suitable handgun holster

- Suitable range wear depending on the season

- Rifles zeroed at 100 meters.

- Good attitude.

Ammunition required:

- 800 rifle, 150 pistol

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Thanks!

Sarah Bledsoe

Grey Group Training

chris
08-17-2011, 6:17 PM
Anybody got a spare, PALS-compatible, non lightbearing holster for G19s? Totally forgot SERPAs aren't allowed for Vickers classes...

i did'nt see on his site why SERPA's are not allowed can anyone please tell me why.

i have been to Prado several times and it can get very hot on the ranges. bring plenty of fluids with you.

Buck Mossie
08-17-2011, 8:24 PM
i did'nt see on his site why SERPA's are not allowed can anyone please tell me why.

Serpa holsters are a very dangerous design that when used under even mild stress can be a contributing factor to a negligent discharge. In my opinion they are simply unsafe.

S/F

B

chris
08-17-2011, 8:50 PM
Serpa holsters are a very dangerous design that when used under even mild stress can be a contributing factor to a negligent discharge. In my opinion they are simply unsafe.

S/F

B

i have used mine for a couple of years and not one issue and used my buddies in Iraq with zero issues. could it be that the person with the firearm could negligent in handleing their firearm as well?

can you recommend one that is similar that does'nt ride up your leg like others i have used?

Buck Mossie
08-17-2011, 9:13 PM
I believe that Raven makes the best kydex belt holsters and that the Safariland 6004 series are the best drop holsters. Both will accommodate a pistol with or without a Surefire x300 attached.

Just my .02

B

SamsDX
08-17-2011, 9:31 PM
Chris - I'm glad you brought up the issue of Serpa holsters; I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. The only holster I have is the Serpa, so I'm about to order something and have it overnighted from Midway - PM me if you want me to throw your order in together with mine.

chris
08-17-2011, 9:39 PM
I believe that Raven makes the best kydex belt holsters and that the Safariland 6004 series are the best drop holsters. Both will accommodate a pistol with or without a Surefire x300 attached.

Just my .02

B

not bad looking. but what pistols were the people using with the SERPA that had a ND with?

Chris - I'm glad you brought up the issue of Serpa holsters; I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. The only holster I have is the Serpa, so I'm about to order something and have it overnighted from Midway - PM me if you want me to throw your order in together with mine.

i have seen several companies that offer classes that do not allow it then all of the sudden they do. what holster are you getting? i can't get anything at this time though.

to the OP i do not mean to thread jack i have questions regarding the SERPA holster and why it's not allowed.

SamsDX
08-17-2011, 9:46 PM
i have seen several companies that offer classes that do not allow it then all of the sudden they do. what holster are you getting? i can't get anything at this time though.

I'm still looking through the options available on Midway - ideally I'd like to find a paddle holster that is very similar to the Serpa that I'm used to using, except without the Serpa mechanism itself.

Since Safariland is regarded highly, I'm thinking something like this? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=823596


to the OP i do not mean to thread jack i have questions regarding the SERPA holster and why it's not allowed.

Since it's related to the equipment that can/cannot be used in class, I'd say it doesn't constitute threadjacking. :) I would have been stuck without a sidearm this weekend.

chris
08-17-2011, 10:01 PM
I'm still looking through the options available on Midway - ideally I'd like to find a paddle holster that is very similar to the Serpa that I'm used to using, except without the Serpa mechanism itself.

Since Safariland is regarded highly, I'm thinking something like this? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=823596




i like having a drop holster it works better with my gear on.

i have to wonder what is causing a ND with the holster. i looked at mine and can't see where it can happen. i use a Beretta.

SamsDX
08-17-2011, 10:16 PM
i have to wonder what is causing a ND with the holster. i looked at mine and can't see where it can happen. i use a Beretta.

I've never had any issues with the Serpa either; never even came close to touching the trigger during a draw. I'm experimenting with a now, and I can see that the position of the lever is well above the trigger, but with the right amount of pressure on the index finger as you draw, the finger can force its way down. I had to try to make it do that though. I shoot a 1911, and since I don't switch off the thumb safety well into the draw stroke (long after it's pointed downrange) I think there was a comfortable margin of safety.

I had a drop leg once (with a Serpa holster) and it always rode high or sagged, or squeezed my thighs too tightly to where I thought I would lose circulation to my lower leg. I wear my chest rig pretty high, and I don't have any mag pouches near the sidearm, so I didn't have any obstructions.

esskay
08-17-2011, 11:19 PM
If you have an easy up type tent to use for shade bring that along with you. Sometimes shade is not available at courses. Some guys who have overheated at courses go get in their vehicles and turn the A/C on to gain some relief.


BTW, Prado has plenty of cover uprange, plus tables/chairs there.

lewisracing
08-19-2011, 10:29 AM
I have just been advised by a friend that he cannot make the class and I can take his place... but I need someone to help me out:

1. Need a pistol grip AK with sling.
2. A few mags
3. Need ammo

Will purchase ammo and rent equipment from anyone who is willing to offer, please PM me ASAP.

I usually shoot with Falcon Operations Group (over 100 hours of training with them), most of the guys here can attest to the fact that I will not steal or ruin your gun. :) Please advise.

SamsDX
08-19-2011, 11:04 AM
My AKs are all featureless builds - the one featured, bullet-buttoned one I have is a home-built on a flat, so I probably wouldn't feel comfortable having anyone but myself shoot it. But, I've got a couple of 10 rounders that you can borrow. It might not be too late to ask JohnnyRambo for the ammo, but if there's not enough, I've got about a crate of corrosive 7.62x39.

lewisracing
08-19-2011, 12:09 PM
Thanks SamsDX!

Upon thinking this over, although I really want to attend this class, I doubt I am going to be able to pull off getting all the equipment in time for tomorrow, and my flight instructor told me he can fly with me tomorrow at 9am, so I am going to choose flying over rushing to find an AK in time for this class.

I will attend on the next go-around though for sure!

va_dinger
08-24-2011, 7:15 AM
Sounds like you guys had one hell of a class. I cannot wait to read the AAR's.

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-24-2011, 4:44 PM
AAR LOCATED HERE: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=469167

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-25-2011, 9:57 PM
Here is why the Black Hawk "Serpa" holster is NOT favored by LV or many others..:facepalm:


http://youtu.be/zYvAxLX6OzE

chris
08-26-2011, 6:35 AM
Here is why the Black Hawk "Serpa" holster is favored by LV or many others..:facepalm:


http://youtu.be/zYvAxLX6OzE

i saw that. i notice that he did'nt blame the holster only himself. there are others out there also. on how it breaks and so on. i don't have that paticular model that he uses. i have the drop leg holster and so far no issues with it.

is it all the SERPA holsters or a paticular model?

i still believe that a ND is fault of the person not the holster as a whole. being safe is paramount in all classes and if it takes a second longer to draw your weapon and be safe then so be it. none of us want to see anyone shoot themselves or anyone else. familiarity of the system you are using can be huge factor as in the video pointed out.

again i have never had any instance where my safety on my pistol was off due to the holster and i have looked and i cannot see where the holster can cause a ND without human interference. i use a Bereta in mine.

are some of these ND's caused by certain pistols or all of them?
that is the question i have been asking and i have not recieved a reply. i have taken several classes with my SERPA and no instructor has had an issue with it.

JOHNNYRAMBO
08-26-2011, 7:48 AM
Yes the ND is the fault of the shooter.

The design of the pistol retention release is in the trigger guard area and when drawn from the holster the finger has a tendency to find it's way inside the trigger guard and onto the trigger causing ND's.

It is simply the design aspect that is considered to be the problem. Not the quality or manufacturer, just the fact that your finger will be more likely to hit the trigger. Glocks are said to be the most dangerous in a Serpa (no safety).

I personally use a thumb retention type holster. The Safariland ALS and Bladetech ones are great.

chris
08-26-2011, 1:48 PM
Yes the ND is the fault of the shooter.

The design of the pistol retention release is in the trigger guard area and when drawn from the holster the finger has a tendency to find it's way inside the trigger guard and onto the trigger causing ND's.

It is simply the design aspect that is considered to be the problem. Not the quality or manufacturer, just the fact that your finger will be more likely to hit the trigger. Glocks are said to be the most dangerous in a Serpa (no safety).

I personally use a thumb retention type holster. The Safariland ALS and Bladetech ones are great.

i figured it was due to a certain type of pistol and not all of them. i have not been a fan of Glocks in my lifetime just me i guess. they don't fit my hand well. but i have not had any issues with my Bereta with the SERPA.

i would also have to say that familiarity of the holster and use of it can play a huge part in reducing the chances of ND's and not be the way the holster is designed. i have never placed my finger on the trigger when drawing my pistol. i make it a habbit to have the safety on when it's in the holster. practice makes perfect and maybe taking that extra second to be safe is all that really matters.