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View Full Version : Kimber Pepper Blaster? STActionPro Talon?


pinwheels
10-24-2010, 1:12 PM
My wife walks to her car through two lightly populated, poorly lit parking lots and a row of trees after work. Come November and end of daylight time, it's going to be dark. Aside from a good flashlight, I'm looking for other defensive options and am looking at Pepper Blaster and Talon. Are they legal? She doesn't want a Taser. So . . . ..

1. I find nothing in ads limiting the Pepper Blaster (apparently discontinued) or Pepper Blaster II (http://www.pepperspraycenter.com/buy-pepper-spray/pepper-blaster-kimber-pepper-spray-gun-guardian-angel-p-326) for California, but wonder because it uses a pyrotechnic charge if it might be a "firearm." This was what kept the original Tasers out of California (current version uses compressed nitrogen). Can a nozzle be construed to be a "barrel" and the gel a "projectile?" Any ideas?

Related question - the high velocity narrow stream seems like a mixed blessing: less affected by wind than pepper spray cans, but more prone to an outright miss. And with only two shots . . . .:shrug:

2. According to a LEO friend, the Talon, being all plastic (except for the clip) is completely legal. He carries his everywhere, including court, govt. bldgs, etc., even off duty. The code seems to agree, but thought I'd ask here too.
http://www.stactionpro.com/the-talon-with-clip-p-11.html

[Mods - please move if wrong forum]

MP301
10-24-2010, 5:27 PM
I think it depends on the size...I think, but not 100%, that 2oz is the largest allowed for regular folk in CA... FInds out how much the Kimber holds asnd gp from their...Incidently, I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble for having larger ones and unless your wife does something styupid with it, I cant see how she would ever get in trouble for it.

Order it and see if they ship it to you?

GrizzlyGuy
10-24-2010, 6:52 PM
1. I find nothing in ads limiting the Pepper Blaster (apparently discontinued) or Pepper Blaster II (http://www.pepperspraycenter.com/buy-pepper-spray/pepper-blaster-kimber-pepper-spray-gun-guardian-angel-p-326) for California, but wonder because it uses a pyrotechnic charge if it might be a "firearm."

That's right, a Pepper Blaster is a no-go because of the pyrotechnic charge. See 12403.7 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12403.7.html):

(e) (1) No person shall purchase, possess, or use any tear gas
weapon that expels a projectile, or that expels the tear gas by any
method other than an aerosol spray, or that contains more than 2.5
ounces net weight of aerosol spray.

pinwheels
10-24-2010, 8:25 PM
Thanks MP and GG

re 12403.7(e): the Pepper Blaster does expel an aerosol spray, so this section looks ok. I'm guessing here, but the intent of this could be to ban tear gas projectiles or maybe the old CS/CN-powder tear gas pens. I'm pretty sure the 2.5 oz limit is a non-issue with these, as they fit easily in a hand. 2.5 oz would be like half a hamburger, not counting the propellant and hardware.

Hippo
10-24-2010, 9:12 PM
Thanks MP and GG

re 12403.7(e): the Pepper Blaster does expel an aerosol spray, so this section looks ok. I'm guessing here, but the intent of this could be to ban tear gas projectiles or maybe the old CS/CN-powder tear gas pens. I'm pretty sure the 2.5 oz limit is a non-issue with these, as they fit easily in a hand. 2.5 oz would be like half a hamburger, not counting the propellant and hardware.

But it's not expelled by an aerosol spray and that's the issue i've always heard. I've seen these for sale at ammo bros. so i'm wondering if they know something I don't?

cj cake
10-24-2010, 9:15 PM
That's right, a Pepper Blaster is a no-go because of the pyrotechnic charge. See 12403.7 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12403.7.html):

I agree.

thrillhouse700
10-24-2010, 9:42 PM
You guys are silly, we all know defending yourself is strictly forbidden in PRK. That talon thing is pretty cool but your wife would be some sort of training in using it or hand to hand combat.

dantodd
10-24-2010, 11:03 PM
I think that the Talon would be considered "plastic knuckles" per 12020.1 as the stud would be a "projections... that would contact the individual receiving a blow."

Possession isn't illegal but commercial sales/mfg/importation would be.


12020.1. Any person in this state who commercially manufactures or causes to be commercially manufactured, or who knowingly imports into the state for commercial sale, keeps for commercial sale, or offers or exposes for commercial sale, any hard plastic knuckles is guilty of a misdemeanor. As used in this section, "hard plastic knuckles" means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of plastic that is not a metal knuckle as defined in paragraph (7) of subdivision (c) of Section 12020, that is worn for purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand, and that either protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow. The plastic contained in the device may help support the hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections or studs that would contact the individual receiving a blow.


ETA: While less likely it is also possible that it could be classified as a dirk or dagger since it could cause a puncture wound and is a fixed "blade."

Toyman321
10-24-2010, 11:40 PM
My local gun shop has a HUGE Pepper Blaster display, every time Im in there they are suggesting it to women that are apprehensive about guns or want to be able to carry something with them. I'm surprised that they would carry these if there was an issue with them legally, these guys wont even touch OLL's.

I have actually been looking at these for my wife, due to the nature of what she does for a living we feel the need that she carry something. She had been carrying pepper spray, she is now carrying a Taser.

IDPA4U
10-25-2010, 8:00 AM
I spoke to the DOJ about the pepper blaster and they told me there had been an analysis of the product and it was officially ruled a firearm and was illegal to carry without a ccw. I was bummed because I liked the idea of having similar ergonomics to my pocket pistol. But after further research it seems a steam delivery system is the preferred method for self defense and gives a greater likelihood that the irritant can be "walked" onto target.

I'm thinking of getting one of these for my wife. I really like the alarm element it incorporates.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=943303

MudCamper
10-25-2010, 8:30 AM
Well, I've purchased several, gen 1 and 2, and have been carrying them since they first came out. I can see how some will always interpret it as a 12403.7(e) violation, but I will continue to interpret it otherwise. It is an extremely convenient form of pepper spray. It's thin and rides very well in a back pocket, and the gen 2 with the pistol grip and integrated fixed sights make it easy and accurate to fire.

sd_shooter
10-25-2010, 9:14 AM
I'm interested in getting a couple of these too - one for my wife, another for my mother in law.

Anyone else have one? (Kimber PepperBlaster II)

WWDHD?
10-25-2010, 11:36 AM
I've always been interested in the Pepper Blaster but it doesn't seem to be legal in CA as I read the PS laws. One of those things that someone will have to use one and then go to court over its legality I guess. I've never seen one at any shops or gun shows around here so I just thought you can't have one (like so many other things).
If I remember correctly the Kimber website said that it shoots(sprays?) the pepper blast at about 90mph! Imagine a MLB pitcher throwing a hand full of that stuff at your face at close range. Think I'll have to see if I can get one of these things online and screw the CA PS rules.

IDPA4U
10-25-2010, 12:21 PM
I've seen them for sale at shops and was told by clerks it was 100% legal, but when I mentioned that to the DOJ they immediately wanted to know where. That wasn't something I could remember but as we all know there is lots of misinformation passed around at gun shops. Its a neat devise and I wish it were legal to carry but the DOJ was adamant it was not. I would hate to be a test case, because technically the law is against you. Not worth it in my opinion, other great options available.

gunn
10-25-2010, 12:39 PM
I've seen them for sale at shops and was told by clerks it was 100% legal, but when I mentioned that to the DOJ they immediately wanted to know where. That wasn't something I could remember but as we all know there is lots of misinformation passed around at gun shops. Its a neat devise and I wish it were legal to carry but the DOJ was adamant it was not. I would hate to be a test case, because technically the law is against you. Not worth it in my opinion, other great options available.

Did they mail you a letter stating that it was illegal? The DOJ LOVES to spew fud over the phone....
-g